Can we nerf DS already?
Just nerf or completely change the perk, as of right now it's really unhealthy for the game and promotes toxic gameplay.
Possible changes/nerfs:
When a survivor enters a locker with DS still active he/she is immediately sacrificed and is locked out from queue for the next 30 minutes for toxic behaviour.
When a survivor who is slugged is picked up by perk or by other survivor he/she is stunned for 5 seconds, the killer gets notified of his/her location, the survivor enters a deep wounds state and is broken for the rest of the trial.
When a survivor misses the skill check from DS he/she is automatically disconnected from the trial and is deranked to rank 21 (a hidden rank in the game where clicking the ready button prompts a skill check every 2 seconds until you join a lobby, failing a skill check will remove you from queue forcing you to requeue again.
When a killer is hit by DS he is prompted the option to open the Dead by Daylight forum.
When a survivor who used DS on a killer gets downed the killer gains the ability to crouch and can kill the survivor by his hand.
When a survivor starts repairing a generator with DS still active a sound clip plays telling that survivor that he/she is a toxic gen rusher, the survivor enters a deep wounds state and DS is deactivated for the rest of the trial.
Even tho these nerfs might be big I'm suggesting some minor compensation buffs like:
When a survivor escapes the trial with DS still active the remaining duration is carried over into the next match thus preventing some unfair killers like the clown from downing you in the first 10 seconds of the trial.
If a survivor still has DS active and the endgame collapse timer has ran out the survivor can stun the entity thus escaping its realm and going back to his/her normal life.
Comments
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DS doesnt really need a nerf but it should changed so it cant be that abused anymore.
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DS should be changed because it rewards survivors that either A. play poorly, either can't loop very long or can't hide well, or B. play very aggressively (unhooking in front of killer, repairing gens immediately after unhooked, etc.) because they know they can't be hooked again for a minute.
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It doesn't need a nerf. It is balanced the way it is.
Nerf Tunneling and Camping (which are not perks) and then we can talk again.
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The present DS has already undergone multiple nerfs. At this point, it is perfectly balanced, just as many other killer perks are.
Pro Tip : Don't tunnel.
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You think DS is good and balanced, we all got it. The reality is, that it's by far the most used perk in red ranks for a reason.
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For those unaware this a troll post
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I left this comment on another thread, but I'll put it here too.
I think the best change idea is only allowing one DS to be active at a time. Once a survivor is unhooked their DS becomes active and any other DS's in the match deactivates.
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Make it so if the killer hook someone else (not chase), or if the DS user is fully healed, cleanse a totem (fully) or work on a gen for x amount of time then the perk should deactivate because you are NOT being tunnel. An using the excuse that it helps survivors do "risky" play isn't a good reason because the perk was not intentionally made for that an its abuse no matter how you put it. Situational but if gates are at 99 or open an the DS user is unhook what can the killer do? It's a free escape. Just give it a damn restriction. Makes no sense why alot of perks have them but survivors only restriction to perks if "you played bad so this now activates" or "negate a killer strat/kill". fun.
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it was buffed to 5 seconsd because of enduring but it got nerfed so it should get nerfed to 4 seconds AT LEAST
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How do you nerf tunneling? Is that possible? How about camping?
By your logic, camping and tunneling is balanced the way it is.
Nerfing a perk is one thing, changing how the game works is another. Tunneling is a part of the game because it's literally chasing. Camping is existing near a hooked survivor. So how the hell do you nerf this?
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DS is fine.
Just because of very few and rare niche situations where survivors can abuse the power of DS doesn't mean we throw away all the positive effects DS currently has. DS I a life changed and makes survivors gameplay so much more enjoyable.
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As devs said DS is not an anitunnel perk its just reward surv for playing poorly. So killers should get a perk that allow to play poorly like I dunno... If survivor escapes from killer sight the survivor enter on dying state but hey.... 120 secs cooldown for being balanced.
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A way to balance DS, if you get grabbed while doing an action like gen repair DS activates. Can be only used once
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The majority of "Nerf DS" threads are tunnelers and campers who they want easy fresh unhook downs.
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A agree with all of these changes.
Seriously tho.
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Adding Survivor auto-mechanics. Like Bloodlust counters Long loops. Etc.
Where in my message does it even state that Tunneling and Camping are balanced? It is a mechanic that can be abused no matter which killer you play. Tunneling and Chasing are very different. Camping and going back to the hook because you saw a survivor nearby are different things.
Until you actually understand the difference there is no point in having this conversation.
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CHANGE YOUR TACTICS.
If the guy was hooked less than 60 seconds ago, slug them. If you are in a strong position where you can catch them again quickly, or eating the DS won't greatly affect the rest of the game, eat the DS. It is not that big of a deal.
I'm getting so sick of this nerf DS bull #########. It's not that hard to play around. Use your brain. I play rank 1 SWF's all the time, 3-4 DS's regularly, and guess how often I get hit by DS? Very very rarely, when I do it's almost always on purpose because I know the survivor is just wasting it. Now I can tunnel them out of the game no penalty.
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It doesn't reward survivors for playing poorly, it punishes killers for not changing tactics. OMFG
Would you say NOED rewards killers for playing poorly? NO! It punishes survivors that don't do totems.
If you get hit by NOED or DS it's your own fault.
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If 3 gens pop within a minute the entity requires a 6th gen to be repaired :P
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Ok if your using that example then please tell me this:
How does the killer permanently remove DS from the game without letting it ever activate?
NOED has that but DS doesn't making it a false equivalence.
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otz just uploaded a video where he downed two guys and tried to pick them up and they both ds'd him, sure you can just slug and wait it out but this also punishes the killer for doing good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CdIwSJRjFE its around min 2 if anyone wants to see
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Fair balanced and fun. In this case DS was not only a free escape but also a free unbreakable.
How anybody thinks such a perk should be able to be stacked 4 times in a team is beyond me in a 1v4 game. Killers have nothing close to as powerful as this, imagine killers getting the equivalent of sprint burst or deadhard, geez ppl would be crying their eyes out.
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Slug them. Like is it really that hard to do?
"But they might have Unbreakable" SO THE ######### WHAT. Let them burn it, you have 23 seconds to chase another survivor. That's 2 not doing anything. If someone comes to help that guy up then that's 3/4 survivors not doing anything.
IT IS NOT HARD TO PLAY AROUND.
Also if you eat the DS early then it's permanently removed from the game and you can freely tunnel that player to death with no penalty. If you find yourself is a really good position, just eat the DS immediately. Don't try to wait it out and decide 10 seconds later. Just eat it.
I've had games a full SWF meta with DS/UB and I still 4k without getting hit by DS because I don't just pick them up like a bot. If I get hit by DS it's on purpose to make them waste it. If you have 4/5 gens then it's a great time to make them waste it, so long as you have some pressure on the other 3 (they are injured/scrambled/slugged/etc.).
11:00 OH GEE WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT. FOUR DEAD SURVIVORS. God forbid he get's DS'd after picking up survivors that were just on a hook. Almost like their perks are doing what they say on the ######### card or something.
It doesn't punish the killer for "doing good" it punishes them for not changing tactics and picking up a survivor that was just hooked. Like bro, are you for real with this video?!?
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yeah, imo you should only be able to equip 1 "second life perk" per survivor. ds unbreakable combo is just stupid add borrowed time on top and its just cancer.
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Every bit of this is true. In the last week ive only been hit by 1 ds that i didnt mean to eat and that was just cause i lost track. Still 4k'd that game. The TRUTH is, ds is actually teaching killers a valuable lesson. Slug more. If theres still 4 or 5 gens left and they do something stupid they BETTER have ds cause ill eat that ######### all day
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DS is still active in your example and thus doesn't pass its equivalence check to NOED.
I just want to prove that NOED and DS can't be compared due to NOED being able to be blocked before it can ever ACTIVATE not have its effect go off(Exposed for NOED is its effect and the stun from DS is its effect).
For them to be comparable then you would be able to permanently Disable DS BEFORE you'd ever need to slug anyone sense you only slug off the hook because DS is activated.
PS. I don't get DSed that often and I even try to play non obsession games as if there was a DS chance so please stop trying to accuse me of tunneling.
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If you eat DS how is it still active? Dude has no protection now and you can freely tunnel them with no further punishment. Please read the entire comment before replying.
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Wait why would you slug the ds user and stand there for 60 seconds? Slug them and go chase someone else. Best case youre pressuring 3 survivors at once, worst case 2 survivors. Slugging them is WAY better than eating the stun unless its early game. Like only 1 to 2 mins in.
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There is no point in having this conversation anyways, so i will respond back to your stupid reply.
Now if you think that tunneling is broken, let me remind you it is a chase. You need to get chased to get downed. There is no difference. Remember how people say tunneling or genrushing is not real? I bet you do with your post count.
Camping depips the killer and removes momentum so you can work on the gens easily. The only time it is good is when people kill themselves to a camper and at endgame.
Speaking of which. There are perks that counter "tunneling" and "camping". Likewise, there are perks to counter "genrushing".
What is the difference between being downed after 55 seconds of unhook in which time another survivor has been hooked, or straight from the save, if both mean that you can decisive strike. Is that tunneling? If it is, then dont nerf decisive strike, because it is doing what its intented to do. Except there is no such as tunneling, so this is why decisive strike being an anti tunnel perk is false. It's just a perk that gives invincibility to grabs for 60 seconds. Sounds stupid and a free escape to me.
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Note how I said BEFORE IT EVER ACTIVATES.
In your example if you eat DS is activates and it has its effect go off unlike NOED which can be disabled before it can ever do either making them nonequivalent.
Also please proof read my comments before replying yourself.
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Make obsession get stronger DS but non-obsession get extremely weaker DS so it doesn't abuse from 4 swf sweat team with 4 DS
Example: Obsession get either "longer duration" or "permanent until someone get hooked and you healed" but Non-obsession get "shorter duration and stun" or something similar
If you're only one who using DS and other teammate didn't then congratulation! You get free Buff DS but only yourself
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"OH GEE WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT. FOUR DEAD SURVIVORS" as if that counters the argument? so if a killer doesn't kill anyone with noed equipped does that mean noed isn't op because thats your logic.
"It doesn't punish the killer for "doing good" it punishes them for not changing tactics" if you watched the vid otz eats the first ds and says "lets get this one out of the way" which alot of killers do if the situation is right and the second pick up otz slugs him for what he thinks is a minute and gets ds. Also whats the "changing tactics" just leave the dude and walk to patrol gens" because then any red rank survivors will just pick the dude up. Ds is just a crutch
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I'm saying why complain about DS when you kill everyone? WORST EXAMPLE OF OVERPOWERED PERK EVER.
"What he thinks is a minute" and a minute are not the same thing.
He burns 1 DS then fails to play around the second, AND STILL GETS ALL FOUR KILLS. In what world does that prove the perk is broken?
Yet you can avoid it entirely by not picking up the guy. You can't exactly ignore NOED by not doing totems, that would only work if the killer isn't chasing you at end game and you just leave which isn't always an option.
The hoops one has to jump to conclude that NOED is fair but DS isn't when they are essentially the same thing for either side (punishment for failure to change tactics) is astounding.
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Ok you are really not getting the point:
If the killer could truly disable DS like survivors can with NOED they could be able to tunnel people off the hook sense DS couldn't activate to let them get the stun.
Even to the description of DS it always activates until its stun effect goes off.
After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for 40/50/60 seconds.
While Decisive Strike is active, when grabbed by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check
to automatically escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 5 seconds.
- Succeeding or failing the Skill Check will disable Decisive Strike.
- Successfully stunning the Killer will result in you becoming the Obsession.
There is no way to permanently disable DS before it can ever activate(It even says its stun can only go off while active) unlike NOED which makes the comparison between the two a false equivalence fallacy.
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No you're not getting it.
YOU CAN PLAY AROUND DS.
That's all there is too it. You have plenty of ways to avoid DS, and if you happen to find yourself chasing someone that has an active DS don't pick them up like a bot. Unless you intentionally plan to burn it because you are in a strong position.
Your whole argument is null and void because you can play around DS. It does not need a change. YOU DO. More specifically your tactics need to change. I have no problem playing around DS at rank 1 against 4 man SWF. I don't fall for obvious baits, I slug, and I burn DS if they are stupid and are willing to let me burn it early in the game. Still consistently 4k.
You make it sound like it is impossible to beat. IT IS NOT. It's only impossible if you refuse to change your tactics.
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"I'm saying why complain about DS when you kill everyone? WORST EXAMPLE OF OVERPOWERED PERK EVER"
ive killed people with object of obsession before does that make OoO not overpowered because i won the match?
Killers have lost matches with Noed active does that make Noed not overpowered?
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Ok I am clearly talking over your head so there is no real point in continuing this conversation if you can't understand what I am getting at.
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If you do it consistently then yes. Otz frequently gets referenced with his videos showing him eating DS, yet he still 4k's consistently in these games. If it was as broken as you claim then he wouldn't win this consistently after being hit by DS.
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You're not. You're saying that you cannot* pre-emptively remove DS from the game like you can NOED. I'm not stupid.
What you don't get is that THIS DOES NOT MATTER since you can easily play around DS just like you can play around NOED. It's not broken, not in the slightest.
EDIT: Typo, wrote "can" meant "cannot".
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Noed isn't necessarily the survs fault if they get hard maps to find totems like haddonfield indoor maps and coldwind, so there's that.
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No it's still their fault. If you don't get all the totems then expect a NOED and play safe at the end game.
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"If you do it consistently then yes" you heard it here first folks thesuicidefox confirmed that OoO is not op because ive won more games against it than i lost, in a follow up whispers is also op because when i win i have it equipped.
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Yeah ive only ever done that when the games already over. Its stupid otherwise
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I was reading this like "What in the world are these change suggestions? Am I being trolled right now?"
Then I bumped head first into this ^
Lol.
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OOO is fine in solo, it only becomes a problem in SWF because then the entire team knows what you are doing. It's not quite the same thing. DS doesn't actually become that much stronger in a SWF.
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yessss, let the survivors stop using ds and make them use small game and this is not happening
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whatever cool i dont want to argue with you anymore, have a good one
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If its a map with really difficult totem spawns then its not. Although playing safe is good, it doesn't really counter noed. Like this one match. I had a doctor who facecamped off the first hook(me, don't judge I can't loop swamp) and tunneled me, I looped him for five gens and got adrenaline, but he had noed, he downed me, face camped, but my team couldn't find the totem and ended up doing a one for one, as I had carried the team ( I window teched over 20 times and he never knew where I was for a couple of seconds after) anyways, I saved in front of him, and he picked up immediately. He got hit by d's and I got out when I saw that he had downed the other guy. The poor guy didnt have d's and the doctor ended up getting a kill he didn't deserve, all because of that map having hard totem spawns. That wasn't anyone's fault. My point is that sometimes noed isn't preventable. It's really all about luck with the map, honestly.
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LOL the yikes.
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I really hate DS but that is too much, I just want it so people won't abuse it, other than that is good, by abusing I mean dumb plays like "I will unhook someone in the killer's face and when he picks me up I'm good to go and I will call him a tunneler at endgame chat" stuff like entering lockers is annoying and I'm sure an entitled survivor will say "it's just a 5 sec stun, nothing happens" yes it's just a 5 second stun but that 5 sec stun can change the game completely, from having decent pressure to non and losing the game
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