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Wasn’t DS stun buffed because of enduring? But enduring no longer affects it...
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If 5s is too long and 3s is being thought of as too short, there's always a middle ground of like 3s with 5s of light scratch marks, or 3s with 3s of no scratch marks. That would also pretty easily let you shoe in the whole "deactivates if you do x-thing for 5/10 seconds" to round out the perk.
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What is your PSN account? Maybe we can do a KYF game and show you how broken DS and Unbreakable is.
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What? Did you even read my post? That has no relevance to what I said. Besides, all the things you listed have some sort of counterplay. Spirit can be outplayed with iron will and/or fixated. Freddy can be countered by not sucking at looping, and if he's pallet Freddy, having small game. NOED can be countered before it ever comes into play, so don't even play that card. Adrenaline doesn't really have a counter per say, but it doesn't really "need" one since it's not a hard denial 90% of the time. It's not always easy, but it's there, and possible to do. There are times where there is absolutely ZERO counterplay to DS, and these situations occur in I'd say at least 3/4 of matches where DS is present.
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and the perk was also made weaker by having a requirement to activate, so the longer stunned stayed. Isn't the hardest thing to figure out in all honesty.
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I personally think DS is stronger now than it was before.
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*If your the obsession*
If your not the obsession then it was a buff(required reaching 30% wiggle and being dribbled denied it entirely now it only requires being unhooked) so given that there's only 1 obsession in the game having it being buffed for the other 3/4th survivors out weighs the obsession part nerf.
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Imagine thinking after getting looped around, before getting your first hook having the survivor DS you is "better."
That x's 4. Imagine thinking it's "better' when the survivor chooses when to use DS instead of only activating until you're unhooked.
Imagine thinking getting DS'ed at the gates on purpose and t-bagged while the survivor escapes was "better."
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Ah yes for the 1.5 seconds survivors will now have to escape the killer after using DS.
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Imagine not thinking having an actual counter, like dribbling, isn't better. Imagine actually thinking that the way it works now, where DS works whether you're the obsession or not (and this, leaving the killer to just have to guess), isn't stronger. Imagine actually believing that being DS'd and teabagged at the gates isn't still something that happens (like legit, do you even play DBD? KEKW LUL). IMAGINE actually posting that and feeling like you outwitted someone, just to get shut down harder than Windows ME.
Legit, there are ways it's less strong, but overall, it was a buff. Judging by your clear bias and lack of knowledge on the game, I wouldn't expect you to understand, or even attempt to understand. Hell, you won't even respond to my original argument. Those times/situations I talked about now where DS literally has no counterplay? With old DS, you could actually do something.
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Out of everything you've listed only the lockers are actually the only thing you cant slug with. The others you can just lunge and you'll down them without slugging :)
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Only players I see complaining about DS when I play are the ones who still (for whatever reason) believe it is strictly an anti tunnel perk or just have a bad memory and can’t remember who they hooked.
They wanna hit that sweet tunnel spot when they see no obsession at the start of a match. Know what I mean?
Using DS : “Omg stop abusing and going into a locker”
Slugging/Camping/Tunneling: “Oh that’s a legit strat... so it’s fair and balanced.”
Same ***t, different post.
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There was also a patch that just hit that made maps smaller, removed infinites, removed many safe pallets, created dead zones.
Do killer mains forget that?
Because I don't. What else do they want nerfed?
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A good counter is dont play scummy :)
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Cant wait for "Deliverance OP?"
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Dribbling, lol
How many times did that work? An easy body block would have countered your "dribbling."
How can you dribble a survivor that wasn't the Obsession and reached 30% wiggle and hit his DS?
Where, pray, is this counter to this?
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I don't even mind that. What bothers me is I can hook a person, go chase, down and hook up to two other people, find the first person again and STILL be DS'd. I don't mind it being anti tunnel (which it's not supposed to be). DS needs to be conditional.
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Imagine their style of game play when there's no Obsession.
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So let me get this straight, since you're clearly new to the game and have no clue what scummy is - if I hook you, leave the hook, and during you getting unhooked/healed, I have hooked 2 other people, and I find you again when patrolling gens...and I get hit with your DS...I was playing scummy? OKAY THERE bud. Play more killer, then I'll allow myself to acknowledge any validity in your opinion.
It actually worked fairly often. At least it was an opportunity to counterplay.
Look, it's obvious you have no real insight here. You absolutely refuse to, again, address my original point. Conveniently ignoring it yet again. I shouldn't be surprised, honestly.
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And there in lies the problem.
First person HAS DS. Correct. At most they will have half the timer they did before. It doesn’t make it any less counterable than before. You won’t get DS’d if you play things right.
Only in certain scenarios would that ever happen. The problem I have is that some people in these forums make it sound like there is legitimately NOTHING you can do, as if somehow that survivor cannot be touched by whatever means. It drives me insane cuz I see good killers who never even knew I had DS. So then I ask myself what the heck are these people doing getting DS’d all the time?
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And there you go, deflecting because you refuse to answer my "non-obsession" DS question and rather drop the conversation than go any further.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Let me quote them,
"60 seconds of immunity."
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You know wiggle progress is capped so you can literally count out loud to about 5(the skill check would appear at 4.8 seconds aka 30% of the 16 second wiggle timer) to dribble them to deny the DS.
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30% is not much at all, imagine coupling that with people on your team running breakout, or you know, just not being near a hook lol.
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Literally never said that. Honestly - you rely on DS. We get it. You can't live without it. Which probably means you're usually the first one to get hooked (typical). It's okay - keep trolling. You're bad at trolling anyway.
It happens only in certain scenarios, but it still happens, and it shouldn't. There should absolutely be conditions to DS. If I hook 2 other people, DS should under NO circumstances still be active. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's common sense.
Even still, as I said, there are times where DS can't be counterplayed at all.
Example - end game collapse (and this has happened before, and to many others). 3 people on the hook. The fourth person used a key to get hatch. They should have been dead, right? You'd think so - except one guy had deliverance. He uses deliverance, you go to hit him...oh, he has mettle of man. Or some other perk like deadhard etc. Unhooks his teammate. I down the original guy, but the newly unhooked teammate has unhooked the other person. Down that person, and the person they unhooked. Now, the door is literally 20 seconds of crawling away, and it's opened.
Now, we have a situation with no counterplay. Do we pick them up and eat the inevitable DS? Or let them crawl out? We can't wait out the DS. The door is over there; and dribbling is gone, so we can't counter the godlike counterplay of hitting a skillcheck like a "skilled" survivor. I took the gamble, picked them all up, sure enough, they all had DS. Yep, totally fair.
It needs to have conditions on it. Like every other perk; and speaking of conditions, it needs to have less synergy with other perks; which shouldn't be an issue, given that BHVR goes out of their way to remove any strong synergy from killer perks.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
I hope.
You're joking.
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Did you even play at the time of old DS?
Yes people did literally count to 5 to dribble DS back then as the dribble would force the failure of the DS skill check.
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I'll answer that question for them, since we both know the answer - no, they did not. Or are just trolling. Whatever the case.
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And you're wanting it to get nerfed why?
What is the core reason you want DS nerfed? Is it to play friendlier? To "have more fun."
HELLLLLLLLLLLL NO, I see every killer who want DS nerfed as a villain. You want to take away the only perk in their arsenal that prevents killers like you from playing scummy, from playing like a complete jerk. I can't even imagine the field day a player like your, or a player that wants DS nerfed has when they don't see an obsession.
You're probably the type of player that has their Steam on Private so people won't -Rep you to death.
I'm a killer main who is fine with DS. A player slugged is as useless as a player on a hook.
Can't you count to 60? Can't you tell who you just hooked and who recently was unhooked? You can't tell a Shirtless David from a Meg apart? What's preventing you from going for the unhooker? Do you need BBQ so you wouldn't have a reason to camp and tunnel? I can give you 500 Auric Cells if you need them so you can get Bubba. What reason do you have to want DS nerfed?
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Yes, I used it and I was a killer as well.
I'm telling you, and asking who, WHO DID "You know wiggle progress is capped so you can literally count out loud to about 5(the skill check would appear at 4.8 seconds aka 30% of the 16 second wiggle timer) to dribble them to deny the DS" THIS?!
Dribbling was a valid, yet dangerous strat to deny the OBSESSION'S DS, but you can't assume everyone had it or you'd be giving the non-obsession survivor a free escape because you'd be adding 40% to their 30% wiggle bar already!
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Thanks for admitting you didn't play back then as there WAS NO PENALTY FOR DRIBBLING BACK THEN!
The dribble penalty was added BECAUSE of people using dribbling to counter DS every single game.
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I didn't say nerfed. I said have conditions added; because it SHOULD be an anti tunnel perk.
Honestly - if you are going to continue making assumptions and putting words in my mouth that I never said, there's no sense continuing to argue with you. We both know I'm right anyway. Keeping having fun with DS. You obviously need it. Being the first one hooked and all.
Protip: DS is a trademark of people who can't run the killer well.
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If it was up to me for balancing Decisive Strike, I'd add more conditions to be more fair to killers and make it more powerful.
- Activation timer expires when a survivor is hooked
- Activation timer is [Pick one] paused or slowed when in the dying state
That would solve the situation where killers get hit by the perk when they weren't tunneling, but to compensate, killers who tunnel can't use loopholes to tunnel without consequences. 😊
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Again, show me proof people did
"You know wiggle progress is capped so you can literally count out loud to about 5(the skill check would appear at 4.8 seconds aka 30% of the 16 second wiggle timer) to dribble them to deny the DS"
Answer. My. Question.
WHO did this?
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Im a rank 1 killer on xbox and PC bruh. If you've hooked 3 people all in under the span of 3 minutes then clearly the survivors are bad and you won't have to worry about DS anyways so at that point if you are hit with it? You've already pretty much applied a huge amount of pressure and even with a 5 second stun what's the worst that'll come from it while 2 other people are hooked, the DS user just got off your shoulder, and theres only one free person.
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No, no, no, no, don't give me the ol' "Conditions added."
That's a straight up nerf, disguised as a rework.
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What about when a survivor gets tunneled, slugged THEN the killer decides to go for someone else and hooks them while the DS survivor is in the dying state.
Would that be fair?
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Imagine thinking the Devs don't care, or pay attention about your DS whining when they're introducing a killer that negates the effects of DS and allows you to tunnel a survivor freely after they get out of the cage.
Killer entitlement is getting out of hand.
I can't wait for further DS complains after Pyramid Head releases so you can be shut down by a simple
"Stop whining, use Pyramid Head."
And I'm sure, I'm 100% positive you'll find ways around that advice.
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this is legit the 2nd video from the top if you search how to counter DS.
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The first 2 minutes is a guide on how to use DS.
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and the second half is how to counter it including counting to 5 after picking up survivor to dribble them to counter DS.
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As a killer if they changed so that the timer is gone when someone else gets hooked. I could literally hit the survivor making the save, let them unhook, hit slug them while I tunnel the unhooked survivor.
Leave them on the floor, and go pick the savior survivor up. Boom! DS is gone. So that is definitely not a good idea. Lol
I would advice you to find other means to discuss because I have tried with these types of discussions and they lead nowhere most of the time, unless people see both sides.
Literally for me the only time I see DS being slightly “problematic” is when they have it and the exit is near, which I say slightly because that’s RNG. I don’t make the call where the exit gates spawn just as I don’t make the call when the exit gates spawn and hatch is in between, leaving the survivor no other choice but surrendering. That’s just my opinion after almost 4K hours into this game.
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Why stop at 5 seconds? If a Killer activates DS then he should be required to sit in a corner of the map for the rest of the match and send video proof to BHVR of him tossing his keyboard into a tub of water before he can queue again. It's the only way these gosh darn tunneling killers will learn!! /s
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Yes, as a killer myself it'd be far too easy to negate an unhooked survivors DS easily that way. It's an ongoing topic and it baffles me how many want it nerfed, or removed just because it changes their play style and are forced to play more aware and pay more attention.
Your opinion is also valid, thank you for being civil about it.
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Anyone that played Killer for an extended period of time.
I did it. I'm sure @Warcrafter4 did it. Various streamers did it. I've had it been done to me pretty much every game back then even though I don't run DS. And I'm sure countless other random players back then did it too.
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I don't see the disguise. That is explicitly a nerf. No one is pretending it isn't.
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Unless you are talking about the ACTUAL rework suggestions, which do more than just slap a condition or 2 on the perk or something.
In which case most of them are sidegrades. Though I'd still expect a lot of them to be nerfs seeing as DS is an overpowered perk.
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Spoken like a true rank 21
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Giving someone like him bubba would NOT be a good idea
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Yes, that's fair because your team had ample time to pick you up. The killer had to win a chase, transport them, then come back to search for you — that's more than enough time and if not, you can place the blame on your teammates, not the perk. 😊
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That isn’t a fair way to look at it IMO.
Your suggestion is going to make Campers really love that perk. You down the person saving and tunnel the hooked survivor. You can hook the first downed and deny DS.
Not everyone is hovering around a hook to heal a downed person.
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