Discord makes survivors unbalanced.

yeet said:

redsopine1 said:

yeet said:

redsopine1 said:

Grey87 said:

@redsopine1 said:
Hey have a look at the ban section it states any third party means is a ban offense the exception is the console's as they have voice chat built in

Ok, I'll just use steam's built in voice chat xD
Wow, now I really am not sure it this guy is a troll or actually serious.

Facepaws * read all the comments someone explained what the 3rd party stuff was in detail and I realized I was wrong and apologized

did you really just say that...

Boops you * I'm a fur so I have paws not hands so its a facepaw and yes before I was adamant vc outside ps and exbix was losted under 3rd party but once it was explained I realized I was mistaken and apoligized

i don't really think people need to be informed as to what you jack off too on the dbd forums

Did you seriously just do the whole because someone is a furry they jack off to it stereotyping stuff like seriously get some information about it a small percentage do that or view the anthropomorphic characters that way alot just like the good detailed artwork that people can spend a entire day on drawing humans is easy drawing a character with realistic fur muzzle shape correct tail size and shape weather its corse or soft fur floofy or flat and then there's the sense of acceptance and family that alot of people who's feel like outcast's dont fit in find it a welcoming community that alot of furs main goal is to make people smile and if someone decides to become one from feeling accepted by strangers so they don't feel alone knowing they have friends that will go above and beyond to help them and the way you go is hes a fur so he must jack off to it route have some consideration in future of what people choose to be apart of and there reasoning behind it

The official discord for Dead By Daylight has 20 SWF Voice chats. Discord is in no way banable and never will be. The game should add voice and balance around it... What about people that play in the same house/room? What about people using phone apps? I mean to even attempt to enforce this would be dumb and a waste of time/money.

@Boomer said:
The official discord for Dead By Daylight has 20 SWF Voice chats. Discord is in no way banable and never will be. The game should add voice and balance around it... What about people that play in the same house/room? What about people using phone apps? I mean to even attempt to enforce this would be dumb and a waste of time/money.

This is most likely the only reason why voice communications are not officially considered as cheating ; even though the use of such 3rd party program to get some advantage, fits right into the dev's cheating definition.

This type of thing are just as old as the world: when something is forbidden by a law, but that law can't be enforced anymore, people start doing what what's forbidden with impunity and the victims get really angry. The only solution is to legalize what was once forbidden, because when you can't make the crime go away, you just need to sap the victims expectation for justice.

So YES, voice communication is definitelly cheating in any game that doesn't provide that service by itself, BUT since the devs can't do anything about it, they probably act as if that was the plan all along.

@TheBean said:
Call them cheating all you want. However, the Devs don't consider it cheating since they are not banning for using VOIP and because they do it themselves.

As I said sometimes it is far more easier to bend before an injustice that we can't do anything about than actually trying to fight it. All I said earlier isn't against the devs nor anyone using voice communication: this is just human nature (or just the way it is, if you prefer).

Netherless, when a game designer bring a videogame to "life" without giving its players the opportunity to communicate ... there you have pretty much good idea of what was and what wasn't intended. And to push tis idea even further, we might say that there are until this day no integrated voice communication service AND no dedicated servers, which are much needed to deal with the extra weight of people streaming together. Not to mention that BHRV didn't told us about adding this features into the game.

This isn't hard to understand : think of it as if you played pocker with your friends and suddenly you get up your chair and start peeping at other player's cards.

*Can you do it ? YES !
*Can someone pinn you down with force, because you tried. YES !! But they won't because that's too risky.
*But if no one stops you, are you still cheating ? YES !!!
*So, should you do it ? NO, definitely, NO !!!! (unless the devs finally make room in their game for it with a special game mode or something)

@TheBean
Can you say anything to contradict my last post, beside just telling my opinion does not matter, or pretending my ideas are wrong because I do lose sometimes ?

None of it are relevant in this conversation and as I believe I gave you some intelligible argument, I expect you to do the same, or at least to leave the discussion table and let someone else deal with me.

@Utna said:
None of it are relevant in this conversation and as I believe I gave you some intelligible argument, I expect you to do the same, or at least to leave the discussion table and let someone else deal with me.

I will give you an intelligent argument here.

There is this thing called the social contract written in various forms by Hobbes, Locke, and Rousseau. The social contract is a theory or philosophy that the state is greater than the individual. Basically, the "state" being the governing body and the "individual" being the person enter a contract with one another that the "individual" gives up some of their rights to join the "state." These rights are giving up decisions on laws, taxes, rules, regulations, property etc. in exchange for a good or service.

In this case, you the player of Dead By Daylight purchased the game, approved the EULA when signing in, and play the game. You have signed away some of your rights to play DbD. Those rights include but are not limited to data being recorded, playing by the rules BHVR has established, etc.

In exchange, BHVR sets the rules and regulations and helps protect the community. It does not mean you can not respectfully challenge their authority, but you have to get the law changed for it to occur. In this case, BHVR, the governing body, does not see voice communications as cheating. Therefore, it is not cheating.

To use your poker example if the majority of the people at the table allow your behavior and think it is ok then the social contract is that peeking at cards is ok to do. It does not mean that 1 person cannot find that wrong, but they gave up that right when they sat down at the table.

So the majority of the player base is ok using voice comms and the governing body reflects that making it legal to do. Therefore it is not cheating.

If you are unhappy with that decision you can respectfully challenge that request or do what most people do, leave. Many people leave countries, cities, etc because they don't agree with the laws that are provided. You don't have to play by the rules, but you have to accept them while you are playing the game and in the community.

@Nightmare247 said:

@Utna said:
None of it are relevant in this conversation and as I believe I gave you some intelligible argument, I expect you to do the same, or at least to leave the discussion table and let someone else deal with me.

I will give you an intelligent argument here.

There is this thing called the social contract written in various forms by Hobbes, Locke, and Rousseau. The social contract is a theory or philosophy that the state is greater than the individual. Basically, the "state" being the governing body and the "individual" being the person enter a contract with one another that the "individual" gives up some of their rights to join the "state." These rights are giving up decisions on laws, taxes, rules, regulations, property etc. in exchange for a good or service.

In this case, you the player of Dead By Daylight purchased the game, approved the EULA when signing in, and play the game. You have signed away some of your rights to play DbD. Those rights include but are not limited to data being recorded, playing by the rules BHVR has established, etc.

In exchange, BHVR sets the rules and regulations and helps protect the community. It does not mean you can not respectfully challenge their authority, but you have to get the law changed for it to occur. In this case, BHVR, the governing body, does not see voice communications as cheating. Therefore, it is not cheating.

To use your poker example if the majority of the people at the table allow your behavior and think it is ok then the social contract is that peeking at cards is ok to do. It does not mean that 1 person cannot find that wrong, but they gave up that right when they sat down at the table.

So the majority of the player base is ok using voice comms and the governing body reflects that making it legal to do. Therefore it is not cheating.

If you are unhappy with that decision you can respectfully challenge that request or do what most people do, leave. Many people leave countries, cities, etc because they don't agree with the laws that are provided. You don't have to play by the rules, but you have to accept them while you are playing the game and in the community.

1/ I've read "Le contrat social" which wasn't from Hobbes or Locke ... It was from Rousseau and he would have NEVER EVER said that the state was greater than individual beings (at least not like that). You must have mixed it with the "Leviathan" from Hobbes.

2/ Having an opinion does not make me a challenger of anyone, let alone BHRV. Having an opinion makes me an human being and sharing it here in the forums opens it to a most welcome criticizm. So please believe me, I'm not planning for a coup, nor demanding anyone to surrender to my point of view. However, I wished @TheBean gave me answers that I can logicaly understand (that's what I mean by "intelligible", as opposed to "intelligent" like you said).

3/ I've already explained twice why BHRV should better not call voice comm user "cheaters". They would have too much to loose over a problem they canno't possibly control: since they can't prevent players using communication programs, they're legalizing it ... maybe not because they like it, but probably because it is simplier than having to deal with people complaining about cheaters not being punished.

4/ If BHRV liked the idea of having DBD players on headphones, they should probably provide a communication service to their players, and rules to go with them ... something like proximity chat discreet killers could overhear, or new items like talky walky, etc. This isn't science fiction ; many online playing game had these features running right at their begining ... but DBD never had any of it ; is that a coincidence ?

5/ Let's talk poker some more (just to be clear, I'm diving into it again so it might be clearer to anyone who reads this ... ethics are cool to understand even if we don't always agree with each idea). So you're getting up and peeking at my cards behind my back and nobody's stopping you.

First of all, we all know peeping at someone's elses cards is cheating, because it grants an unwanted advantage in a game that wasn't designed to support such behavior. Alright, so why does nobody stops you ?You tell me because the majority agrees with it. Let me tell you, if I was at a table where people had the right to peep each other cards, I'd tell them "Hey guys, that's cheating, in fact, you're not even playing pocker !"

After telling them that, I'd stay a little while to see if their version of the game is interesting and eventually be gone if I don't like it. However, telling those players they were doing something odd and franckly quite counter-intuitive would have been my right, and by doing so, I would have been right to give them my opinion. Imagine you where the only anti slavery person in a room full of masters in the XVIII century ... the majority of people would have cast you out for thinking their ways was wrong, but does their number made them right anyway ?

@Vankruze said:

Does voice coms create an unfair advantage? Yes! by definition that's cheating. I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare that with nickelback as a goat band and calling me insane at the same time lol I love how you can't manage a civil conversation without going personal says a lot about your character, have a nice day!

I just asked if you would like to admit you are wrong. There was nothing personal there. However, your argument still makes no sense.

Does Usain Bolt who is naturally faster than everyone else create an unfair advantage? How about Michael Phelps? Those two broke many records, but they are not equal on the competition level standard, but they are not cheating.

Does voice comms elevate the team's ability to win? Yes. Does it create an unfair advantage? Sure, but it is not tampering with, the keywording you are missing with your arguments, TAMPERING with the game files directly. If Usain Bolt or Phelps used drugs to enhance their performance and were caught because they are breaking the rules that would be cheating. However, Teams using voice comms are not cheating because it is not against the rules.

You can interpret it however you like, but it is not cheating. You can say there is an advantage gained, but cheating it is not.

@Vankruze said:

IN MY OPINION IT IS CHEATING, god I hate repeating myself! pay attention or don't address me period!

Ok but you said earlier the devs opinion doesn't matter, so how is your opinion more valuable than theirs? Why is your opinion more valid than their's, why does their's not matter? You want everyone to accept your opinion but not heirs, don't you see how that's going to be an issue?

MagnumTA said:

They should allow talking in this game. So many people use Discord, and other talking apps. That it completely throws game balance off. That it's is the soul reason that some people may complain about killer imbalance. But they may not know, in actuality, it's these talking services that completely unbalances the game. Making killers too weak to compete in a game were talking is not allowed. Make killers strong enough to compete with Discord!!

How do u expect to communicate with your Survivor friends on PC then if there not adding in gamechat 

@Rattman said:
Ok, swf is broken, its a fact. But devs still can make reasonable nerfs to it. Like, hide killer perks for everyone till end of the game, when all survivors escaped/killed/sacrificed. And, probably, they can create another non-ranked playmode with swf, while ranked mode would be solo only. Makes sense, right?

They absolutely need to hide the killer perks and addons till after the match!
And I love the non-ranked playmode idea, never even thought of thatt

@Utna said:

And if they did used Discord instead of the game's proximity chat, they would be cheating don't you agree ? Just like you said there would be no point to prohibit the use of a 3rd party voice comm program, since the devs canno't prevent it or punish it in any ways.

It is not cheating in any form or fashion. Let's use some actual examples of cheating. How about a program that adds a God Code into the game and a player can hack the speed in which a survivor/killer moves? Yes, they have changed the foundation and code of the game. How about a program that allows the killer to see through walls, see all totems, see all chests, etc? Yes, this is cheating as it again modifies the code of the game.

Let's use Antivirus programs or Microsoft Office or GPU FPS counters. All of these are 3rd party programs. Many are running at the same time that DBD is running. Are these programs cheating too? No, none of them are. None of them are tampering with the code of the game. So running a program like Discord, Steam Voice, Skype etc in the background even if it is not actively being used for chat is NOT CHEATING. Discord etc are not tampering with the game files in anyway.

If Usain Bolt used a drug to make him faster, but that drug couldn't be detected, Is he cheating : YES

Sure, he is cheating at that point, but you are getting into the theoretical if a tree falls in the woods does it make a noise debate. The thing is the game knows people are using voice software and they are OK with it and will not ban it. So therefore, by the rules of the game, the game makers, IT IS NOT CHEATING.

If the Olympic commission knows he's using the drug but can't prove it. Is he still cheating : YES

Yes, but in the case of BHVR they are not trying to prove it. They know and WILLINGLY allow it. They have a BHVR supported Discord!!!! They support voice communications, they just never built it into the game. So what? It is not cheating if they, the creators, developers, and rulemakers of the game allow it.

Would the game be better if there were no voice comms? Yes, but to call players who use voice communications in a SOCIAL game cheater, that is where the line has to be drawn.