Devs losing touch with community
After over three years and 2.3k+ hours, I have never felt more 'meh' about loading up and playing DbD. The amount of bugs that are introduced or never fixed, the player voices that go unheard or unaddressed about severe balance or gameplay issues, the list goes on...
I know it's a different set of developers, but the below screenshot just about sums it up for me. Rather than doing something about the boring and hostage-esque face-camping of the game (which exists on all platforms), the mobile devs take the time to make this loading screen 'tip' - which gives credence to the gameplay style and basically says to let your teammate die. Don't be altruistic, don't give that player another chance in the trial... let the killer set up a tent and get a free kill. Such a boring situation with little or no counterplay, when Borrowed Time doesn't trigger on half your killers now or Bubba/ranged/small heartbeat killers.
Please make your game a more enjoyable and fair experience for all players.
Comments
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I means it's either repair gens while the Killer is camping 1 Survivor, or go for the unhook and let the Killer camp 2 Survivors.
That alternative isn't exactly any better.
Don't do unsafe hooks.
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They've said many times facecamping is a strategy that if you want to employ, they won't ban you. Plus, name a fix that wouldn't be incredibly exploitable, I'll wait.
This tip was added because it'd very prevalent on movile, maybe because they don't know better, maybe because it's free to play so more trolls exist than normal.
Also, this isn't anything like a hostage situation. You die in 2 minutes and survivors can take the risk to save you.
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It's good advice, wish ps4 had that because a lot of players clearly need to hear it. Anti-camping measures that aren't perks are unlikely to be put in because survivors will instantly find a way to abuse them.
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There is no such thing as a safe unhook for the situation described above. The killer will NOT leave the hook. Say that player happened to be caught first thing in a match.. they get 400 chase points, hooked, then get to die? And again, let's disuss how many killers you can not even get Borrowed Time off of in camping situations...
1) Cloaked Wraith
2) Pig crouched
3) Asleep vs. Freddy
4) Ghost Face in Night Shroud
5) 'Tiny heartbeat killers' (i.e. Monitor and Abuse on Deathslinger)
The list goes on...
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Name a fix? Entity progression slows up to 90%, based on killer's proximity to the hooked survivor. There you go.
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They just need to reward the survivor on the hook getting facecamped. Give them % gen repair and distraction points. Make it so they can safety pip rather than lose pip because they were downed early and spent match on hook.
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I don't know about 90%, but that's a better fix than the piddly Emblem penalty the game currently has.
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Already tried and abused. What else?
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Then as the tip says survivors should punish the act by doing gens.
If you feed this act then you are the only one truly at fault as you made it worthwhile and rewarded them. If they do this and the rest do gens and get out and the person stays on the hook for the duration of the camp the killer gains very little BP and 1 or 2 kills at most. This makes it not worthwhile to do so hopefully they will eventually end up changing how they play.
When playing survivor we hold the power and while it may be horrible for the person on the hook its a small price to pay to try and change someone's mentality.
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The only way this can be "abused" is if the killer decides to stay next to the hook! LOL!
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Agreed, the survivor on the hook can do nothing in that situation besides a 4% chance to escape right in front of the killer. You can't expect the survivors to NEVER get hooked. If that was the case everyone would be dead on hook from the start.
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What if they rework Camaraderie to function as long as you're in the killer's proximity?
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Nope. Look up what happened during the first PTB for how it was abused.
Bottom line is, when you play survivor, you sign up to be the victim and have to overcome a powerful opponent (the killer). The killer should be able to stop you from doing certain things, or else the role becomes pointless.
What you're saying here is that if you want to unhook you should always be successful, no matter what the killer does. This is not "fun", it's just giving the survivors the ability to ignore the killer's presence. The killer, meanwhile, gets shafted, because his presence is irrelevant. The survivors want to do something so they do it, end of story. The killer has zero agency.
And before you say the camped survivor has no agency either, yeah, that's true. On the other hand, even if the survivor wasn't being camped, the hooked survivor still wouldn't be able to do anything, they'd be reliant on their teammates. That's because being on the hook is what takes away the survivor's agency. It's a consequence of their multiple failures, not of anything the killer does to them.
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The survivor on the hook can do nothing regardless. That's the whole point of the hooks.
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I know, my point was that the bloodpoint+pip system is built on the game being played in a way that the killer doesn't camp, the survivors help each other and unhook each other. When that doesn't happen, the unlucky guy who gets face camped right away gets punished way too hard.
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Right so do gens and don't do unsafe hooks. The alternative is giving the Killer 2 Survivors to camp, and that isn't helping the situation.
If everyone just does gens in response to camping then a lot less people will camp.
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exploitable
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It's not the players job to fix game design issues. That counts for killer as well for survivors. And as long people can camp, they will camp.
And yes, the current state of hooks is a game design issue, which also hurts killers. Mostly because Devs have to consider camping and tunneling into the overall balance of the game, that leads to things like the current gen repair times and long chases.
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So if a killer is chasing a survivor near a hook? The survivor is just invincible are they?
Tried, tested, abused by swf. Try again.
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In this particular case, this isn't on the devs.
The Killer needs to be physically capable of camping or else unhooking in general suddenly become free. The most the devs can do is ensure Survivors are informed about the camping and punish the Killer for UNNECESSARY camping (aka: camping when no one is going for the save). Otherwise they just cause more problems than they solve.
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if killer see a survivor near by why should he not stay that how it got Abused 1 or 2 survivor would stay near hooked person.
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I never said invincible, good deflect though. I said up to 90% based on killer proximity. Meaning the hooked survivor will still eventually die from time if not rescued no matter what. A survivor can only be chased near a hook so long anyways, no?
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We can go on and brainstorm a thousand ideas that would at least improve the situation. Kindred basekit has been suggested many times, for example. Make it so that hook grabs don't work anymore, similar to the hatch, so at least survivors can get a 1v1, which is still advantageous for the killer. Make BT proc upon any unhook so it's not cheese countered by sneaky camps. Disconnect hook time and hook stages, i.e. you die on your third hook or after 2 minutes total, so instant re-hooks are not as rewarding. There are many possibilities that could at least be considered and tested to see how they work out. Obviously, it doesn't have to be all of them. Do that and stuff like DS could be nerfed into oblivion and the game still be fair.
But the devs are convinced otherwise. @Almo says that it's the survivors that reward camping, despite evidence that is not always the case. @Peanits says that camping is an intended mechanic because it can be punished by survivors, despite solos not having anywhere near enough information to do that. On top of that we get Pyramid Head and his cages that don't count as hooks for anything except... wait for it.... hook stages. Oh and moris, they count for moris too somehow. It seems clear that 'consistency' is something that is used very conveniently as justification only for those changes that are cherry-picked.
This is exactly what killed Deathgarden. Just saying. Nobody likes to load into a casual game and have an insignificant chance to play it. Again, another issue, because the devs view DbD as competitive, despite the bugs and the plethora of unbalanced items and features.
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I'm talking about cases where there's no sight of other survivors, no scratch marks, no groans of pain... absolutely no reason other than the killer is mad/bad that they stay near the hook. Come on now.
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If you want Kindred, you can just use Kindred. It's a general perk, it doesn't require any DLC. That's what I do. Unfortunately, survivors still reward campers by, you guessed it, trying to unhook. So yes, it is absolutely survivors who reward camping, every single time.
The killer is standing still for two full minutes, so either the survivors are rewarding it for not making use of that time, or there's a third party in the trial that I'm not aware of.
They're "sacrificial stages", not "hook stages". They were called "hook stages" because hooks were once the only way to progress them. Now it's no longer the case. It's just a different way to achieve the same goal, like the Doctor's Shock Therapy and Static Blast. They both increase madness, but they work in fundamentally different ways.
The mori thing is a bug, plain and simple, either with the description or the inner workings. Bugs are not "proof" of favoritism. If that were so, I'd argue that the fact survivors (apparently) make zero noise is far worse.
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So people don't show up on BBQ, or you know someone was near because surveillance just went on and off again while you've got ruin equpiied- there are too many factors to consider.
Also, camping gets punished by holding M1. If it's that much of an issue for you, then run Kindred. That's what perks exist for- to cover up your weak points and counter things you have an issue with. Hate camping? BT/Kindred/DS. Hate Spirit? Iron Will. Hate Trapper? Small game. Hate useless solo teammates who can't hit skillchecks? Use Inner Strength to heal yourself easily.
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Kindred is so good and yet when the others see I'm getting facecamped it seems to make them even more inclined to come over and try to unhook anyway or even better, crouch 10 metres away from me and the killer and squat there doing nothing for a minute or so.
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I thought this was gonna be about something else and not camping but alright. Yeah, the screens funny, and yeah, camping sucks, but I'd rather the potential to camp then have some kind of restriction that doesn't feel right. The game isn't an esport, and I like to have the freedom of doing almost anything on either side. And having the freedom of doing anything, will allow some players to do bad things unfortunately. But now you just can't even hit hooked survivors as killer? I don't want anything else like that.
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Solos to have the information if they wish to use a perk for it. Kindred was designed specifically for this. Basekit kindred while seems like good idea gave more information than they wanted without a perk being needed and it doesn't just help solos but swf also since they can get info if they can't see a stealth killer. That is just something we have to accept.
The rest is down to the players not the game, those who give up on hook reward it, those who try and bait the killer reward it. Those who refuse to gens reward it. I would bet these same player will probably complain about being camped but refuse to help punish it by using what they have.
Most things within the game don't lead to the devs thinking the game is competative but actually leans more to a casual experience. If it was competative mori's, keys, certain perks along with many other things would not be part of the game at all as they completely change it and remove the competitiveness for an easier time.
Pyramid head cages actually goes against camping as the cage itself spawns far away from the killer. Survivors can then run to the other side quicker than them. The mori well it needs survivors to be under a condition so its not simply given. Again both of these tend to not lead to competative play imo as they negate perks on both sides.
This isn't what killed deathgarden. The issue with deathgarden was actually listening too much to the community and the first major change done removed the fear of the hunter. The DBD devs listen and take feedback but most just isn't actually that good and this game has lasted 4 years and continues to do well. I would say they should stick to what they decide to implement as it seems to keep the majority happy as the daily player numbers themselves say much more than the people on a forum.
Post edited by twistedmonkey on2 -
That's mobile not The PC devs a whole different team.
And idk what ur talking about the tip being on all platforms cause I never seen it once on xbox.
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PS4 has a bad problem with campers. The more they camp, the more they’re just hurting themselves by missing out on chase and hook points.
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I agree there's a lot of campers but also a lot of survivors willing to reward them. Like I got facecamped by a bubba in the basement recently, chainsaw revving no insidious or anything, and I had kindred - and the other 3 survivors all came running down to interfere and ended up dying in there too. I dislike campers and I'm sick of survivors giving them a 4k for no reason because they all seem to lose whatever common sense they had once they realise someone's getting camped.
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Cote said himself to "play something else for a change" if you're not enjoying DbD.
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*clears throat*
DO.
THE.
GENS.
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Easy fix: remove the time penalty if the Killer enters a chase, or if another survivor is within 16 meters
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So they added a tip for something they themselves deemed as "frowned upon", and not actually changed the way a mechanic can be abused by simply adjusting/creating other options for a "camped" survivor, other than the perks (which are already meta enough) DS/BT, and addressing the actual issue. 🤣
Got it.
Here is a hint. Most situations where a killer is face camping very seldom result in the other 3 survivors escaping. Why? Because sometimes the killer doesn't make it known that face-camping is their intention so they make the other survivors waste time until they get there and find out the killer was in fact meaning to face-camp.
I don't expect everybody to understand that, because most killers camp in one way other another because it can be a strat, but it can also be abused to an extent. Which is where I have a problem with it.
I'm also going to put this into perspective, because this is the mentality of a lot of players on these forums:
(Killer camps) Those players: "Just do gens! Don't feed the killer"
Those SAME people: "Genrushing needs to be nerfed immediately!"
Bottom line is. Many people on here just seem to one sided on where the "real" problems are with the game, and cherry-pick whatever suits their fun.
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A killer can only be at one place at a time. If he hangs around the hook gens are free. Force them to move or lose
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Less Killers would do this kind of camping, if survivors would just do gens and stop rushing in to die to it.
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Just do some gens. Very interactive.
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Sometimes you have to bite the bullet.
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I agree but it becomes problematic when half of matches are like that
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It would become problematic if half the matches were like that yes, but they're not. Even if they were, that just exacerbates the need for survivors to punish it by gen rushing.
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Or, You can have one person fake the save for all of that time. Keeping the killer there for probably about 5-10 mins. Meanwhile. All gens have been done, and the dude on the hook is literally nowhere even near being on second state. Granted for anyone that’s smart that wouldn’t be any issue whatsoever. But about 5% of players that play the game are smart. So that’s a pretty big percentage swinging the other way!
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Boy lemme tell you something face-camping is always going to be a part of the game. The best thing you can do as the victim is buy your team some time.
FPS games have been out for 2 decades and camping is still an issue. What do you expect from a game that's only been out for 4 years ?
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so this is broken tenfold. a survivor from the moment they get hooked has 2 minutes of being on the hook. in this two minutes if the killer decided to camp, or even worse face camp. Almost all five gens can be done. Lets assume these are the most average survivors to ever survive. they will never fail a skill check nor will they ever get a great skill check. All 3 survivors who are not on hook each get on a gen as soon as the 4th survivor is hooked. 80 seconds go by and 3 gens pop. one survivor goes off by himself to work on a gen and the other 2 meet up to work on a gen together. 40 seconds go by and the hooked survivor died, 7 more seconds go by and the 4th gen pops and only 33 seconds remain for the lone survivor to pop the 5th gen. thats a lot of power that the kiler is giving away by camping. The only thing survivors are doing when they try to unhook the camped survivor is wasting time and giving the killer control of the game. if you are on comms you just let the others know hes camping, work on gens. If your not on comms and you spend say 20 seconds trying to unhook the survivor or at least checking out the situation the best thing to do is abandon the survivor and pressure the killer by doing gens. the killer will most likley leave if he sees a bunch of gens pop off.
With all that in mind giving a slowdown of up to 90% is absolutely broken. lets say he gets a middle ground of only 45% for the whole 2 minutes. that means the survivors get and extra 54 seconds to work on gens and still go and save the survivor, that means that they are guaranteed to get all 5 gens done and have time to spare to save the other survivor with ease as the 2 survivors who finish gen 4 would go grab the survivor and the other survivor would finish gen 5. The math for this is of course if the survivors could magically teleport to the next gen one after the other and isnt taking into consideration travel time but even then one hooked survivor is at least garunteeing 3 gens done if the killer refuses to leave them. At the same time this is also ignoring great skillcheck bonuses and toolboxes, and the perk prove thyself. This again is also only based on a 45% slow down if you do it to the max of 90% the survivors get a whole whopping additional 108 seconds. This means at max survivors on hook can get a whole 228 seconds on hook making them be able to spend almost 4 minutes on hook. This simply holds the hands of the survivors in a situation they already have the advantage in. Camping on hook is a terrible strategy and is already punishable there is no need to make the punishment even more severe since its already a fail state strategy. if it happens to you, last as long as you can on hook and call it a game, move onto the next match. Just like killers arent garunteed a 4k you aren't guaranteed an escape.
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Okay I'm a killer main and I'll explain why not being able to give.up a survivor and progress generators is just plain stupid. I mainly play the hag, so no, I don't need to face camp. I can literally just teleport when someone's about to unhook. This leads to many games where there are very few unhooks, and when there are I just down the person who got unhooked right away again. I was against a sfw team that would not let their friend die. They had exit gate powered but the 3 of them were still trying to save this one survivor. Even with the exit gate powered this lead to me getting a 4k. A game that could've been a 1k turned into a 4k because the survivors weren't willing to give a survivor to a killer that is amazing at keeping the survivor hooked. Here's my other problem with people that cry about camping. If i as the killer know 2 or 3 other survivors are trying to unhook the survivor, why would I go patrol generators that nobody is at? You're asking the killer to intentionally lose the game when you tell them to leave the survivor alone so you can unhook them. This would be like a killer flaming you for repairing generators, it's literally your goal as a survivor. Just like my goal is killing survivors and not letting you unhook them.
No, I'm not going to sit by a hook because that's a waste of time. But if you think the killer should go to the other side of the map when they have someone hooked you're just being an irrational child that needs to learn how to play better.
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You don't need direct evidence to understand where the survivors might be. It's a just game sense, you develop it over time in any game. Like how in league of legends with no vision on enemies it's not too hard to tell where most would be. If the previous pattern of the survivors in a stage has been sending 2 or 3 to unhook then I'm going to play around that and not go to the other side of the map because the survivors want me to.
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You can also get no Terrorradius with Insidious. Tbh in my opinion, players shouldn't lose pips if the killer always stays near the hook. Because what are you going to do against a killer that is camping? Like a Bubba. You can't do anything and losing a pip for it. Gg
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A killer can abuse certain types of camping, sure. But the fact is there are perks and strats to be abused on both sides. I personally think survivors have no right to talk about any dirty killer tactics as long as infinite looping exists, because that should just be blatantly impossible as a survivor.
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In order to lose something, they have to have it. They never had it. Content creators made DBD. Not the devs. Without streamers/youtubers, nobody would know what this game is.
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