Pyramid Head, and the disturbing trend with killer powers

People enjoy playing against Nurse and Billy?

Nice joke ;)

@tixerp What new killers with complex powers are you talking about ? PH and Demo are only recent killer with a more deep power. Last complex power we got besides those 2 was Spirit and that was ages ago and it still isn't even that deep.

Also killers like trapper take map knowledge since they are trapping killer, that's their whole shtick. They have many options but only few are actually used. Nobody is going waste time by trapping obvious places and even in the good spots they still completely rely on survivors walking into them and not rushing them to death since set-up time for them can be horrendous.

Ofc players want strong killers that are skillful to use but that's not all we want. We want diversity of playstyles which also means killers for more casual players and nobody wants to play crap killers so making them weak would just cause them never getting used. If you consider PH lacking depth then you're probably not thinking hard enough when you play him. He's really fun and engaging when you outplay survivor by perfectly predicting where they will go through walls without even seeing them (just like nurse btw). PH is another great addition to killer roster, survivors just complain since he's another good killer that can catch them and isn't free loopfest like some of the old killers. He has a lot of depth to him, it just seems like you don't see it.

PH, Demo, and Spirit AREN’T that deep, is my point. They just have a bunch of different utilities to make them FEEL complex, when in reality their gameplay is shallow and easy.

That “level of depth” with PH where you hit someone through a wall is a perfect example of “immediacy of thought and not profoundness of thought”.

That is intentionally how you’re supposed to use the power. That’s its main purpose. So it might FEEL like a big brain skill shot, when in reality its a little shallow compared to the tons of mindgames and strategies given to you with beartraps. Not very deep if it’s not the player actively improvising and thinking outside the box. Not that you can’t at all with PH, mind you.

Also to mention the other killers like you said, Oni, nu Doc, nu Freddy. Freddy’s change is something else relevant. Old Freddy, I can understand why people hated, but it’s sad to see it go because he was one of the most creative killers we’ve ever seen in a while. The problem is you couldn’t play him like every other killer, and people couldn’t try to adapt and create new strategy. If you still don’t get what I mean, watch Otzdarva’s video titled “RIP Old Freddy”. He mentions exactly what I’m talking about, and summarizes it better than I can.

What exactly do you even imagine in deep gameplay ? Like trapper sure needs to know where to place traps but that's it. Once you know the good spots by either playing him for a bit or watching other players play him, then what. You trap a good spot in a place you want to defend and survivor either steps in it because you chased them there or they evade it if they know about it thus it's used for zoning just like PH, Demo etc use their power. Bear traps aren't as deep as you say at all, you either know good spots or you don't. What mindgame is there in knowing the spot or know, survivor either saw you or didn't, that's not a mindgame.

Old Freddy sure was unique which wasn't necessary good for the game. Overall he was about juggling survivors and knowing timing of his transition. He also held the crown of beiiing impossible to juke, extremely unfun and unskillful power mind you. You can lose chase (win it in other words) against every killer in the game besides old freddy. No matter what strategy you used, whenver you would get away his wallhacks would just find you for him. Nobody liked the forced loop fiesta he was forcing everyone to do. He had annoying RNG based stall and wallhacks, not a recipe for fun match.

I probably won't be able to see why you think new killers are lacking "profoundness of thought” compared to old ones. To me they seem well designed with right amout of depth and strategy.

Im pretty good at fps shooters and can't hit ######### with deathslinger but i play on console

And yeah it's pretty wild with how easy survivor is that people want harder killers. There's a reason survivor mains don't play killer at all a lot of the time even with there being simpler killers.

I don't get it, the recent killers do require a lot of skill, its not just "do the thing"

Demo requires you to know when and where to shred, and you need to know where exactly to place your portals

Oni is, eh, hard? He has no early game pressure, and his power is really difficult to use on most loops

Deathslinger requires a lot of muscle memory to play properly on some tiles

PHs ranged attack is difficult to use and any new players that don't want to learn how to properly use it will be punished by that long ass cooldown

There is an interaction between Trapper and the survivor, that allows for counterplay. You can deadhard through a trap, bodyblock/flashlight the killer into a trap, could sabotage a trap. You could even put an oddball trap in a weird location and spend your entire game planning around getting that last survivor to walk into it. Just to name a few interactions off the top of my head. PH, when he does his ranged attack, he either hits, misses, or cancels and M1’s.

With some of these new killers there is nowhere near the same amount of interaction between killer and survivor. It’s binary, It’s either: “You hit or you don’t”.

Like I said, watch the video I mentioned.

You’re right. It’s not a competitive game. That’s why I’d rather them not to try and keep making these complicated killers at an attempt to be balanced, when in reality the killer is shallow anyway.

Just make something simple, easy to pick up and play, and hard to master. Fun for both new, and experienced players, and both sides if well designed.

This is a very true and it sucks that it's becoming a recurring issue. The binary choices forced upon you by Pyramidhead and Deathslinger just make them unfun to play against. At least with spirit who's arguably the best killer in the game, you're not locked into these choices.

IMO Doctor isn't as nearly as bad as Freddy because he does slow down and telegraph his shock but then there are discipline addons. Freddy having both oblivious and the ability to spam snares without slowing down can unfortunately "outplay" the best survivors. At any given loop, you WILL eventually fall asleep. A good Freddy can/WILL snare spam you and you WILL take a hit. Then it's rinse and repeat for the next loop and you're down. His base kit is stupid strong with ZERO downside and I refuse to play him until it's addressed.

I would always welcome a challenge from a good nurse, billy, or huntress because I actually feel that I get outplayed from these killers rather than going down/taking a hit due to a cheap mechanic or a binary choice. They also have some of the best chase mechanics in this game that doesn't encourage mindless looping.

@tixerp You can't sabo beartraps since 3.6.0.

3.6.0 | Chains of Hate

• Survivors will no longer be able to sabotage a Bear Trap with a Toolbox or the Perk Saboteur.

Every other chase interaction with PH and trapper power wise is the same as what you metioned first. You can blind or DH etc to make PH miss and lose time giving you a chance to break the chase as much as you can DH through trap or blind trapper to step in it.

It feels to me like you're giving Evan more credit then he deserves. Trap map knowledge doesn't make him the most unique/deep killer with best designed power with infinite possibilities for unorthodox plays.

I know you can't sabo anymore, that's why I initially said "could", as in past tense. Was just doubling down on it's purpose.

I'm not saying he has a literal stratosphere of abilities with his traps, the outcomes could just always be different, therefore there is a lot of possibilities and replayability. It's always a spice up every other game as long as the Trapper themselves is interesting. With something like Spirit though, once you've seen a few, you've really seen them all.

And flashlighting/DH'ing an attack isn't the same because that has little relation to a killers power. There's little difference between DH'ing a Trapper M1, than DH'ing a PH ranged attack. The only result in the end, is you gained distance in a chase, specifically, more distance in PH's case. DH'ing through a trap, depending on it's placement can mean a lot more than just "Did you hit or not him".

Possibilites are there but as I said they are unused. Trappers trap loops, that's what they do, I haven't seen almost any trappers since 2016 that would do traps in random places and even far far less trappers that actually got a random trap to work. Nothing that special about it, many even hate trapper for having uninteractive power since unless you have eagle sight you can't see a trap in the grass mid-chase so many just loop the trapper hoping he didn't have time to place trap in loops they go for.

Distance gained is what usually gives a chance to break off the chase so it's actually pretty huge if done correctly. DHing through traps work mainly on very trappers who would walk into it otherwise good trapper will just cut the closest route around it not giving survivor chase to reach another tile forcing them towards that trap again or even picking it up which happens quite frequently as well. And if it works as you stated what you gain is once again distance used to break off the chase, same thing as vs PH.

Deathslinger is not about reacting when he is going to shoot, it is about predicting when he is going to shoot. Most deathslinger shoot when your are pushing along side a solid object or restricted area because it makes it easier to line up shots. your comment suggests that Huntress has no counter-play when she has fully charged hatchet and your within >5 meters when that clearly isn't true. Many huntress miss in plain sight. Even player who completely devote their lives to play hardcore FPS games such as CS-GO/Overwatch/COD do not have 100% accuracy because it is physically impossible to do that without an aimbot. In many ways, Deathslinger is kinda like weak version of Spirit in the sense that his gun is a Mindgame. I think that might be why I enjoy playing against Deathslinger because I like playing against killers that have build-in mind games in their kit. It feels more satisfying to win knowing that you've outsmart your opponent. It's just a bit sad that variables when it comes to generator times and game-time aren't in his favor, so most of the time, he loses by just being Deathslinger and I rarely face him to begin with.

The centralized theme behind recent killers has been about taking away agency of survivor in being able to loop killers indefinately on extremely powerful tilesets present in virtually every map. Survivor in general has had far too much agency in being able to decide the entire outcome of a loop and therefore, entire outcome of the match. In the case of Demogorgon,Deathslinger and Pyramid head, These killers create a lot of 50/50 situations where the killer can land unexpected hits for where they wouldn't be able to get hits otherwise. Freddy snares disable the ability re-loop the same tileset, however you are not expected to be dream world at the start of a chase and the timer acts as time-limit for allowing the killer to close out and seal the deal in ending a chase similar to how bloodlust does this. Even then, depending on how many loops are close together, there is still room to avoid getting snared by freddy. I would say even though many killers have more agency to outplay the survivor compare to before, it is still relatively easy to win. I have heard that some survivor groups have like 100 escapes in a row. Escaping and Piping as survivor is still as easy as it has always been. Playing killer is still mostly dice roll for whether you face good survivor or really easy ones.

Bro you cant just use the range attack right in front of a survivors eyes ok he isn't huntress with her broken hatchet hit box it requires skill and focus to pull of also dont just go for it to look awesome that's 99% gonna add up to a miss you need to use it when they are in a thin area or lock in an animation it's the best thing for it when they are vaulting or throwing down pallets or rescuing these are all amazing times plus use trench to shorten there roots and cut them off from loops and windows

I hate playing new Doc, and I dislike going against both new Doc and new Freddy. Why would you enjoy that? Do you not experience any satisfaction at downing survivors with your own skill rather than having the devs severely limit the survivors' base ability to evade you? I would like to say that you're the kind of killer that hates when survivors hide and also blames survivors and not the devs for the state of BT and DS, but since I don't know that, I'm not going to make that assumption.

I'm not judging you because of your username, but it's very hard to ignore.

I used to enjoy playing against Nurses before her changes. She was actually scary then. Now she's just boring to face.

I used to have fun playing against some Hillbillies until the devs increased the size of his chainsaw hitbox by about 200%. Oh, and remove a number of pallets I could just waste to avoid his chainsaw. But pallet number and strength is a whole different issue I'm not willing to go into rn.