Pyramid Head, and the disturbing trend with killer powers
Pyramid Head's ranged attack is problematic from a gameplay and fun perspective, both for killer and survivor. As a killer, it is rarely optimal to actually use it due to the huge audio/visual telegraphs and the severe punishment for missing. As a survivor, you are given an often binary choice: take the window/drop the pallet and get hit with the shockwave, or keep running and get M1'd. There is nothing skill based about this interaction because the ranged attack has a huge telegraph and little to no flick. It either gets used or it doesn't.
This highlights what it is in my opinion a very disturbing trend in killer powers within the last year. Simply put, the game is being dumbed down. Most of the killers released within the last year have one of two problems: they simply require you to "do the thing" without any real knowledge of the game itself or mechanical skill, or their power is so punishing with such little upside that it's better used as a zoning tool.
Freddy doesn't need to know how to run a tile when he can snare bomb it. Doc doesn't need to know how to run a tile when he can shock repeatedly. Demo's shred can be good, but you often get hits by not actually using it at all, and missing is worse than the alternative. Deathslinger is usually the same as Demo in that regard. And Pyramid Head is the worst of them all in terms of power reward vs punishment.
Braindead killer powers or unskillful killer powers simply aren't fun for either side. Whenever the question is asked of which killer people enjoy playing against the most, Nurse, Billy, and Huntress are often near the top. Why? Those are SKILLFUL killers, both to play as and against. It's ok for a killer to be powerful when there is an actual skilled interaction going on between the killer and survivor. Making reads on a Nurse but ultimately losing in a few seconds is fun compared to being snare spammed by a Freddy because the Nurse actually had to put time and effort into something and there was counterplay available to the survivor in the moment.
When you dumb down the killer powers, put a hard skill ceiling on the power, and limit the killer's upside, the whole game suffers.
Comments
-
PH plays just like Wraith and Huntress when using his power: don't blatantly do it in a surv's face. It requires thought and mind gaming.
18 -
I've been pulling off hits with it like crazy and I am by no means a high tier player. I am infamously good at mind games though. Maybe it's just a playstyle thing?
0 -
Ever though that not all people want to fry their brain when playing killer ? What's wrong with more casual powers that are strong. None of the "unskilled" powers you named are as fast at downing as those that require more skill to be used. Also I can't belive you called powers of Demo, Doc or Deathslinger unskilled. It feels like you never played them, I can understand Freddy but DS or Demo ? Seriously, you must be the best player in DBD if you can hit all of their skillshots 100% of the time at every opportunity or you just don't know what you're even talking about.
It's not like playing survivor requires insane amount of skill, perfect timing, predictions, aiming and all that. If anything casual M1 killer are boring since you can loop them into oblivion without much thought. Killers are supposed to be intimidating, not your toy.
16 -
As it should be. It is completely absurd that you expect a person to spend literal hundreds of hours with 1 specific character to be good enough to play the game in a functional manner. ESPECIALLY when the other side doesnt have that same requirement. You go back and look at billy and nurse and my only thought is "######### were they thinking making it that difficult." The changes made to doc, freddy were perfect. Pyramid geads a little harder but not stupidly so. Deathslinger is only easy if youre good at fps games. GF is really great too (receal mechanics aside).
I noticed tgis trend as well and applaud it.
10 -
Exactly. Its like they expect you to get a masters degree before youre allowed to kill them and all they need to do is run in circles
12 -
I cannot say I agree about Pyramid Head, maybe to an extent, but YES, I'm so glad someone else realizes what's happening to new killers. Everyone pay attention to what he's saying there.
Freddy, Doc, Oni, Plague; A lot of new killers have this same problem where their power is either something you do or don't. It's not something as exciting and genius as Trapper, where you have a million options, from only one variable. THAT is a good killer design. Give players a simple unique power, and let them be as creative as possible with it. Stop making these convoluted dictionary long description killers at an attempt of making a more balanced one. Even Pyramid Head unfortunately is guilty of this.
Billy? You have a chainsaw. Be creative with it. No charge up meter, no flashy icons, no bells and whistle, just a good design. Same for Huntress, Hag, Trapper, Wraith, etc.
I feel it started going downhill starting with Spirit. We've seen our comebacks like Deathslinger, but for the most part, I think the best things the devs can do to address this, is stop making a new chapter for a moment, and instead REFINE EVERYTHING YOU HAVE. Seriously, we're at 20 killers already. There's so much to work with, and so much wasted potential in this game. When it comes to designing killers, it's like anything else in life: Less is More.
7 -
Yeah..maybe because this isnt a 2v1 game and survivor needs some thought for a change..not a lot but some
1 -
So essentially you dislike players who use "brain dead" Killers because you usually lose to them? I almost always get hate in the endgame chat when I decide to run Spirit or Freddy for rituals. But if I run something like Demo (who I usually main), I get tea bagged and "bullied" in the match because they think he's a easy Killer to go against until they get downed within the first 10-15 seconds.
3 -
"So essentially you dislike players who use "brain dead" Killers because you usually lose to them?"
Really? That's what you took away from the original post? You think that that was the crux of the original poster's 4 paragraphs? I'm not even sure that I agree with the original post, but goddamn if this is representative of the world's average reading comprehension then we're all doomed.
17 -
People enjoy playing against Nurse and Billy?
Nice joke ;)
1 -
Old killers didn't demand you to be a god, but it demanded a different level of skill and creativity than now, while ALSO being 1000x more simple. That's the genius to them.
New killers now have 3 different utilities, with a million different descriptions, and a power meter, and this that and the other, because the devs want to make a "balanced" killer. Which I can appreciate, and obviously they've gotten something right before. But it's nowhere near as stimulating as playing older killers who have much better design.
With Spirit, you either phase hit, or don't. Sure, you might "mindgame" or catch up in speed, but there's not many other outcomes. Trapper on the other hand, is much simpler and has infinitely more unique gameplay. Just watching how a Trapper conceives a plan, shows gameplay that is different from every other player, because it allows everybody to be immensely creative with it. Spirit for the most part? Pretty much all the same.
It's disheartening to hear the DBD fanbase wants more and more powerful killers, with little thought. You can have a powerful killer. Those are arguably the most interesting. Just make their level of depth great. It's like poetry. You don't want the immediacy of thought, you want the profoundness of thought.
5 -
I agree with you.
What most people in this thread don't seem to understand is the word BINARY. As in you have 2 choices as survivor and neither are good choices.
PH isn't as bad, but Deathslinger exemplifies this to the extreme. Either you run to the pallet and get speared then hit, or you run away from the pallet and he just follows you and hits you. In either case, you just get hit. There is no avoiding it. The only chance you have is that you commit to running through the pallet and the killer misses his shot, which is a mistake on his part NOT an outplay on your part.
PH is very much in the same category. Either you run to the window/pallet and he uses the tremor, or you run away from it to dodge the tremor and then he just m1's you.
And no it's not the same as Huntress. First because Huntress has a wind up time she can't just instantly throw a hatchet like Deathslinger and aim and shoot his gun. She has to pre-emptively attempt to zone you, which means you can break LOS behind a tree or something, or start juking to make it harder to hit you (because hatchets are slower than the spear). And second, Huntress can't shoot through walls. She can throw over pallets/windows, but it requires her to have the right angle. PH can just hit you no matter what angle it is.
Doc and Freddy are a different problem. They force you to drop the pallet early which just means less value you can get from each loop. With there being less pallets, and most pallets being unsafe, it just means these guys can always get a hit on you no matter what you do. As Freddy all I do is spam snares around a loop. That's all you need to do, and he doesn't lose speed doing it. Once you have 2-3 snares down then you get a hit. The survivor really can't outplay you anymore. Doc can straight up block you from vaulting or dropping pallets which is really janky and connection dependent. Sometimes I can drop the pallet just after getting shocked and other times I can't. It doesn't feel consistent at all.
Both of these killers need to be tuned down, they are both ridiculous. Freddy more than Doc, but they are both EZ mode killers. I actively avoid playing Freddy now because it's just too easy. Literally, out of the maybe 60 games I've played as Freddy since his rework, I had ONE game that was a 4e and it was actually because I was lagging really bad and having massive frame drops. Claudette would literally just disappear right in front of me, and doing certain actions took triple the time it should have because of lag. Every other game has been a convincing 3k/4k with no more than 3 gens done (usually no more than 2), and the last guy usually only gets hatch because I can't be bother to drag out the game any longer to find them so I just let them have a chance at it. Anyone that says Freddy takes skill or that survivors can outplay him are NOT good Freddy's. I was an old Freddy main. Rank 1, played without NOED or Ruin and could consistently 4k but it was rewarding because it took a lot of skill. Now, I might as well just be playing a PvE game with how easy it is.
Doc I don't play, but the few times I did for dailies he felt super easy to use. And as survivor he is still insanely frustrating to deal with, the devs did NOTHING to make him more fun to play against. In fact I'd argue it's worse than before.
We need less of this kind of BS. Killers don't need all this stuff in their base kits, especially when they keep removing pallets, nerfing loops, and of course blood lust. Freddy with just teleport and snares would be enough. He doesn't need Oblivious in Dream World. Doesn't need longer and longer Snap Clap. And he doesn't need the flashing intermittently to awake survivors effect. All that could be moved to his add-ons (namely the worthless ones like Z Block).
And we need less of this binary power BS that we see with Deathslinger and PH. It's lame to have literally no valid options to dodge a hit. Relying on the other player to mess up is NOT a valid counter play option. Being zoned by these killers is not a fun experience and is very one dimensional. Demo is close but he's not nearly as bad since you can force him to use Shred and then dodge it. I don't get why Deathslinger and PH can't work more like that.
Let's hope the devs come around and come up with something more interesting and balanced for future killers.
5 -
Yes our Prometheus edgarpoop, truly disturbing it gives me chills.
0 -
All killers (with perhaps the exception of Bubba, and even then I might be wrong) have as much potential to be creative as the player who is willing to play them.
Pyramid Head can be extremely tactical, once you learn you don't have to draw long trenches. Put smaller trenches or even little "pot holes" in tactical places. Use the cages to manipulate where survivors go. Use his blast to go through walls; corridors; etc.
This is only the tip of what Pyramid Head can do, and with perks or play styles it can still be destructive. Experiment. Don't aim to "win" those matches, but try out new, inventive ways of defeating survivors.
4 -
They were simple to pick up (nurse aside) but take a really long time to master. Unless you master them you cant compete with the top teams of survivors. Survivors on the otherhand require half the time and once you know it you know it for all the characters. Thats stupid and honestly kind of backwards. Theres 4 survivors competing against one killer. It should be harder to learn that role. Reducing the skill ceiling on the newer killers makes them a little more accessible and reduces the stress level of the killer role in general. Ive said this before and ill say it again, playing freddy and doc is as close to casual on killer side as you get and theres absolutely nothing wrong with that.
As for creativity, youre just simply wrong. Theres tons of play styles to go along with the crap ton of perks for each killer including the simple ones. Not everyone runs bbq and pop or forever freddy on fred. Ive done all kinds of ######### with those 2 characters people werent expecting. I mean how many different ways are you expecting billy to use his saw?
Its fine if some killers are stupid hard to play, thats good. Its also fine if some killers are easy to play, thats good too. Both are healthy for the game.
2 -
@tixerp What new killers with complex powers are you talking about ? PH and Demo are only recent killer with a more deep power. Last complex power we got besides those 2 was Spirit and that was ages ago and it still isn't even that deep.
Also killers like trapper take map knowledge since they are trapping killer, that's their whole shtick. They have many options but only few are actually used. Nobody is going waste time by trapping obvious places and even in the good spots they still completely rely on survivors walking into them and not rushing them to death since set-up time for them can be horrendous.
Ofc players want strong killers that are skillful to use but that's not all we want. We want diversity of playstyles which also means killers for more casual players and nobody wants to play crap killers so making them weak would just cause them never getting used. If you consider PH lacking depth then you're probably not thinking hard enough when you play him. He's really fun and engaging when you outplay survivor by perfectly predicting where they will go through walls without even seeing them (just like nurse btw). PH is another great addition to killer roster, survivors just complain since he's another good killer that can catch them and isn't free loopfest like some of the old killers. He has a lot of depth to him, it just seems like you don't see it.
3 -
I don’t know of anyone who took more than 60 hours to start getting good at a killer like Nurse or Billy. It’s not hard to “master” killers, I think there’s just a large amount of casual players in the DBD fanbase, rightfully so. But even when casuals play these killers, its okay, because the skill floor is not only low, but the skill ceiling is very high. That’s good game design. It’s simple enough for someone who doesn’t even play games to understand/pickup and play like you said, and also highly rewards players who put in the hours and effort to master that character. Like Kirby game design.
Like you said, theres a place for both of these killers in the game obviously. That’s not what I’m trying to discredit.
1 -
That's how giving a summary of an article/book/post works bud. It doesn't take advanced reading comprehension to dissect the post. In 4 paragraphs, OP essentially tells us he dislikes people using "brain dead" Killers and would rather have BHVR as well as the community create and stick to using characters that demand high skill, better pay off. Even though knowing that not everyone can enjoy those types of characters or are that particularly skilled. Since he and others find "Brain dead" Killers boring, he'd rather have people play something that HE finds fun. Which gave me a lead to the conclusion he wants this because what he finds "fun" in Killers is being able to win against them more. Obviously everyone wants strategic Killers for better game play. However, he barely harped on that until the very end which was his final statement.
1 -
Start getting good sure, well enough to keep up with really good survivors though? Thats where what youre saying breaks down and where the issue lies. A 60 hour nurse probably isnt going to be good enough to be a full stack 4 man swf team of r1s. In fact theyll probably get smacked. A 60 hour freddy can put up a good fight. He'll probably only get 2 but at least hes hanging. If the level of skill requirement were equal on both sides id be inclined to agree with you. Its just not, and again they only have to do it once. Mastering a killers power and how/where to apply it takes a lot of patience and time.
2 -
PH, Demo, and Spirit AREN’T that deep, is my point. They just have a bunch of different utilities to make them FEEL complex, when in reality their gameplay is shallow and easy.
That “level of depth” with PH where you hit someone through a wall is a perfect example of “immediacy of thought and not profoundness of thought”.
That is intentionally how you’re supposed to use the power. That’s its main purpose. So it might FEEL like a big brain skill shot, when in reality its a little shallow compared to the tons of mindgames and strategies given to you with beartraps. Not very deep if it’s not the player actively improvising and thinking outside the box. Not that you can’t at all with PH, mind you.
Also to mention the other killers like you said, Oni, nu Doc, nu Freddy. Freddy’s change is something else relevant. Old Freddy, I can understand why people hated, but it’s sad to see it go because he was one of the most creative killers we’ve ever seen in a while. The problem is you couldn’t play him like every other killer, and people couldn’t try to adapt and create new strategy. If you still don’t get what I mean, watch Otzdarva’s video titled “RIP Old Freddy”. He mentions exactly what I’m talking about, and summarizes it better than I can.
1 -
Well thats what rank is for, Dingus. It’s busted as all hell right now, But otherwise a 60 hour Nurse won’t be even going up against Rank 1’s if she can’t handle it. Even if she can’t, everyone has their first experience with it. Failure is a part of game design, and learning.
Even a 200 hour Nurse won’t be facing against Rank 1’s if she’s not at that level yet. But a skillful 30 hour Nurse, maybe she’s already at Rank 4. Get what I’m saying? Their skill level is dependent entirely on the player themselves, and not the shallowness/easiness of the killer.
1 -
What exactly do you even imagine in deep gameplay ? Like trapper sure needs to know where to place traps but that's it. Once you know the good spots by either playing him for a bit or watching other players play him, then what. You trap a good spot in a place you want to defend and survivor either steps in it because you chased them there or they evade it if they know about it thus it's used for zoning just like PH, Demo etc use their power. Bear traps aren't as deep as you say at all, you either know good spots or you don't. What mindgame is there in knowing the spot or know, survivor either saw you or didn't, that's not a mindgame.
Old Freddy sure was unique which wasn't necessary good for the game. Overall he was about juggling survivors and knowing timing of his transition. He also held the crown of beiiing impossible to juke, extremely unfun and unskillful power mind you. You can lose chase (win it in other words) against every killer in the game besides old freddy. No matter what strategy you used, whenver you would get away his wallhacks would just find you for him. Nobody liked the forced loop fiesta he was forcing everyone to do. He had annoying RNG based stall and wallhacks, not a recipe for fun match.
I probably won't be able to see why you think new killers are lacking "profoundness of thought” compared to old ones. To me they seem well designed with right amout of depth and strategy.
2 -
It's a casual game, not a competitive one.
There is very little skill involved when playing both killer and survivor.
If your looking for 'skillshots' then your looking in the wrong place.
0 -
Im pretty good at fps shooters and can't hit ######### with deathslinger but i play on console
And yeah it's pretty wild with how easy survivor is that people want harder killers. There's a reason survivor mains don't play killer at all a lot of the time even with there being simpler killers.
4 -
See? That was much easier on the eyes to read rather than a quick jab at the OP followed by a rant about endgame chat and being teabagged as Demo. You actually somewhat argued a valid point here.
However, I do think you're still misrepresenting the OP. There is no talk of "winning" or "losing" in the post, that is until he states that he has more fun being butt blasted by Nurse in a matter of seconds compared to a drawn out yet binary affair with Freddy. Nor does he point the finger at the individual killer players as you imply in your latest reply. He's simply taking issue with the design philosophy of recent killers. How about sticking to the actual content of the post rather than projecting a "sore loser" mentality to the original post?
But for the record, I agree that not every Killer needs to have a high-skill ceiling / low-skill floor. There needs to be simplistic killers such as Demo and Doc and even Freddy (a bit of an extreme here). If every killer required the same degree of finesse as Nurse, Huntress, and Billy then we'd see a whole lot less new killers and that is how the game dies. The new player experience is already unwelcoming enough as is. Besides, sometimes you just want a more relaxed match and there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like Survivors gameplay is really rocket-science either.
Post edited by HP150 on3 -
I don't get it, the recent killers do require a lot of skill, its not just "do the thing"
Demo requires you to know when and where to shred, and you need to know where exactly to place your portals
Oni is, eh, hard? He has no early game pressure, and his power is really difficult to use on most loops
Deathslinger requires a lot of muscle memory to play properly on some tiles
PHs ranged attack is difficult to use and any new players that don't want to learn how to properly use it will be punished by that long ass cooldown
3 -
Experienced survivors.
3 -
There is an interaction between Trapper and the survivor, that allows for counterplay. You can deadhard through a trap, bodyblock/flashlight the killer into a trap, could sabotage a trap. You could even put an oddball trap in a weird location and spend your entire game planning around getting that last survivor to walk into it. Just to name a few interactions off the top of my head. PH, when he does his ranged attack, he either hits, misses, or cancels and M1’s.
With some of these new killers there is nowhere near the same amount of interaction between killer and survivor. It’s binary, It’s either: “You hit or you don’t”.
Like I said, watch the video I mentioned.
You’re right. It’s not a competitive game. That’s why I’d rather them not to try and keep making these complicated killers at an attempt to be balanced, when in reality the killer is shallow anyway.
Just make something simple, easy to pick up and play, and hard to master. Fun for both new, and experienced players, and both sides if well designed.
0 -
I do :]
1 -
I both enjoy struggling to master those killers and thoroughly enjoy games when I get ######### on by them.
For some people the fun is derived through the skill expression and room for improvement.
0 -
@tixerp Man, sabotaging traps is no longer possible and overall that's like saying that counterplay to nurse is to use flashlight to cancel her blinks. Can it happen ? Yes. Can you do it reliably for normal gameplay ? No. You also use DH through PH's power or blind him to miss it, see interactions are there. Oddball for PH is to randomly lay down your "lava" for survivor to randomly walk into it, another interaction just like trapper.
Trapper just like every other killer is you trap them or you don't. It's honestly the same thing done differently just like all killers.
1 -
I agree with most of what you said except a few things. Oni definitely requires skill. Just like Myers he's an m1 killer until the game has gone on for a good minute and then he juices up and can snowball insanely well. I love trapper and the idea of him, but in practice he's really just not a killer that thrives in this game and requires a great amount of game knowledge and skill to be of any use. He also has to sacrifice most of the beginning of the game to set up. Hag is just trapper but better.
The Devs definitely need to stop and just fix the game for awhile though. I think that's something everyone can agree with
3 -
I completely agree with this actually.
2 -
This is a very true and it sucks that it's becoming a recurring issue. The binary choices forced upon you by Pyramidhead and Deathslinger just make them unfun to play against. At least with spirit who's arguably the best killer in the game, you're not locked into these choices.
IMO Doctor isn't as nearly as bad as Freddy because he does slow down and telegraph his shock but then there are discipline addons. Freddy having both oblivious and the ability to spam snares without slowing down can unfortunately "outplay" the best survivors. At any given loop, you WILL eventually fall asleep. A good Freddy can/WILL snare spam you and you WILL take a hit. Then it's rinse and repeat for the next loop and you're down. His base kit is stupid strong with ZERO downside and I refuse to play him until it's addressed.
I would always welcome a challenge from a good nurse, billy, or huntress because I actually feel that I get outplayed from these killers rather than going down/taking a hit due to a cheap mechanic or a binary choice. They also have some of the best chase mechanics in this game that doesn't encourage mindless looping.
0 -
I never said he didn't require any skill. You're right, that's something I'm not sure I'd agree with OP on even. The killers are shallow, but I wouldn't say all or most are braindead to use.
Sabotaging a trap for Trapper means changing the game plan, while Nurse or PH being flashlighted is nowhere near the same because they can just try again immediately. There's no long term outcome, It's not the same argument at all, and you're only cherry picking one example.
0 -
@tixerp You can't sabo beartraps since 3.6.0.
3.6.0 | Chains of Hate
- Survivors will no longer be able to sabotage a Bear Trap with a Toolbox or the Perk Saboteur.
Every other chase interaction with PH and trapper power wise is the same as what you metioned first. You can blind or DH etc to make PH miss and lose time giving you a chance to break the chase as much as you can DH through trap or blind trapper to step in it.
It feels to me like you're giving Evan more credit then he deserves. Trap map knowledge doesn't make him the most unique/deep killer with best designed power with infinite possibilities for unorthodox plays.
1 -
deathslingers power is absolutely unskillful wym..??? the instant quick scope with a projectile that fast leaves literally no possible reaction time for counterplay. it also goes through holes in walls which is straight bogus. i think YOURE the one who hasnt vs’d them at all
1 -
I know you can't sabo anymore, that's why I initially said "could", as in past tense. Was just doubling down on it's purpose.
I'm not saying he has a literal stratosphere of abilities with his traps, the outcomes could just always be different, therefore there is a lot of possibilities and replayability. It's always a spice up every other game as long as the Trapper themselves is interesting. With something like Spirit though, once you've seen a few, you've really seen them all.
And flashlighting/DH'ing an attack isn't the same because that has little relation to a killers power. There's little difference between DH'ing a Trapper M1, than DH'ing a PH ranged attack. The only result in the end, is you gained distance in a chase, specifically, more distance in PH's case. DH'ing through a trap, depending on it's placement can mean a lot more than just "Did you hit or not him".
0 -
Couterplay to DS requires you to think when he'll shoot not wait & react to him shooting. Thinking's hard when most fo the time you can just react to killer in plain sight and loop them for free since you see them.
Also if it's as unskillful as you say then play and post a few rounds of you playing DS, I'd love to see how easy it's going ot be for you if he doesn't require skill to play.
3 -
Possibilites are there but as I said they are unused. Trappers trap loops, that's what they do, I haven't seen almost any trappers since 2016 that would do traps in random places and even far far less trappers that actually got a random trap to work. Nothing that special about it, many even hate trapper for having uninteractive power since unless you have eagle sight you can't see a trap in the grass mid-chase so many just loop the trapper hoping he didn't have time to place trap in loops they go for.
Distance gained is what usually gives a chance to break off the chase so it's actually pretty huge if done correctly. DHing through traps work mainly on very trappers who would walk into it otherwise good trapper will just cut the closest route around it not giving survivor chase to reach another tile forcing them towards that trap again or even picking it up which happens quite frequently as well. And if it works as you stated what you gain is once again distance used to break off the chase, same thing as vs PH.
1 -
dude i dont need to play him myself to prove anything when theres tons of evidence already out there from tons of huge and skilled content creators who already agree with my pov.
0 -
Deathslinger is not about reacting when he is going to shoot, it is about predicting when he is going to shoot. Most deathslinger shoot when your are pushing along side a solid object or restricted area because it makes it easier to line up shots. your comment suggests that Huntress has no counter-play when she has fully charged hatchet and your within >5 meters when that clearly isn't true. Many huntress miss in plain sight. Even player who completely devote their lives to play hardcore FPS games such as CS-GO/Overwatch/COD do not have 100% accuracy because it is physically impossible to do that without an aimbot. In many ways, Deathslinger is kinda like weak version of Spirit in the sense that his gun is a Mindgame. I think that might be why I enjoy playing against Deathslinger because I like playing against killers that have build-in mind games in their kit. It feels more satisfying to win knowing that you've outsmart your opponent. It's just a bit sad that variables when it comes to generator times and game-time aren't in his favor, so most of the time, he loses by just being Deathslinger and I rarely face him to begin with.
The centralized theme behind recent killers has been about taking away agency of survivor in being able to loop killers indefinately on extremely powerful tilesets present in virtually every map. Survivor in general has had far too much agency in being able to decide the entire outcome of a loop and therefore, entire outcome of the match. In the case of Demogorgon,Deathslinger and Pyramid head, These killers create a lot of 50/50 situations where the killer can land unexpected hits for where they wouldn't be able to get hits otherwise. Freddy snares disable the ability re-loop the same tileset, however you are not expected to be dream world at the start of a chase and the timer acts as time-limit for allowing the killer to close out and seal the deal in ending a chase similar to how bloodlust does this. Even then, depending on how many loops are close together, there is still room to avoid getting snared by freddy. I would say even though many killers have more agency to outplay the survivor compare to before, it is still relatively easy to win. I have heard that some survivor groups have like 100 escapes in a row. Escaping and Piping as survivor is still as easy as it has always been. Playing killer is still mostly dice roll for whether you face good survivor or really easy ones.
0 -
Bro you cant just use the range attack right in front of a survivors eyes ok he isn't huntress with her broken hatchet hit box it requires skill and focus to pull of also dont just go for it to look awesome that's 99% gonna add up to a miss you need to use it when they are in a thin area or lock in an animation it's the best thing for it when they are vaulting or throwing down pallets or rescuing these are all amazing times plus use trench to shorten there roots and cut them off from loops and windows
1 -
I don't think a mori is fun on any killer. You didn't state anything with a do with Mori's in your original post.
If we're using Ussylis as an example, Ussylis often states in his videos that one of his favourite killers to play against is Hillbilly. A lot of killers at red ranks use add ons (I personally rarely use add ons), the most common addon combo people use on Hillbilly is insta saw.
Insta saw Billy is not over powered, it's easily countered by keeping to structures, and staying by loops. If you're having issues dealing with insta saw Billy then that's on you needing to improve your game.
I personally love playing against a good Hillbilly, I always feel like I'm getting adrenaline rush during those games, it's a lot of fun. Plus I use to be a Hillbilly main, so I know how they think.
0 -
I hate playing new Doc, and I dislike going against both new Doc and new Freddy. Why would you enjoy that? Do you not experience any satisfaction at downing survivors with your own skill rather than having the devs severely limit the survivors' base ability to evade you? I would like to say that you're the kind of killer that hates when survivors hide and also blames survivors and not the devs for the state of BT and DS, but since I don't know that, I'm not going to make that assumption.
0 -
Good thing you didnt make that assumption. Would have been wrong, and if you think doc takes 0 skill youre high as a kite. His power is easier than nurse or billy, that doesnt mean it takes no skill at all and those 2 are uncounterable. At tge end of the day their both m1 killers and very loopable if they dont know what theyre doing
0 -
I'm not judging you because of your username, but it's very hard to ignore.
I used to enjoy playing against Nurses before her changes. She was actually scary then. Now she's just boring to face.
I used to have fun playing against some Hillbillies until the devs increased the size of his chainsaw hitbox by about 200%. Oh, and remove a number of pallets I could just waste to avoid his chainsaw. But pallet number and strength is a whole different issue I'm not willing to go into rn.
0 -
Ye, it takes the same amount of skill to chase survivors as a no-cloak Wraith without slowdown perks, which I myself have done. I never said playing an M1 killer doesn't take any skill, but the powers of those two killers have been modified to only serve to reduce survivor ability in chase. It's like playing no-cloak wraith but with the ability to prevent people from dropping pallets and vaulting windows and doing interactions from time-to-time or (in Freddy's case) from looping a tile more than one time.
Those powers aren't skill-based. They are use-em-to-deny-survivor-abilities powers. Nothing those killers do with their base powers is surprising to or exceptionally challenging for a survivor. The powers are designed just to wear survivors down and are a way for the developers to continue ignoring certain aspects of the game that are problematic with looping for the majority of M1 killers.
The reason Freddy has essentially two powers is because without his snares, he faces all the issues an M1 killer faces when in loops but with none of the perks other killers have. #fixtherealproblem devs
Edit: removed extraneous info
Post edited by Kind_Lemon on1 -
Alright cool. So uh, that means you can get to rank 1 just using doc right? Comparing doc to uncloaked wraith means you have 0 idea what youre talking about. But hey, why not show us? As easy as doc is according to you, you should 4k almost evety game till you hit r1 right?
0 -
I'm not saying killer is easy, and I'm not doubting your inherent skill with a killer. I could care less about rank (I've removed the part in my previous post that seems to have drawn your attention to rank), and the only reason I mentioned it was to point out that according to the game's standards I could do well. I think I got 2 kills every game, and the game thought that was enough to rank me up *shrug*. I'm not even touting my ability above yours, which probably isn't even the case anyway.
Again, I never once said Doc was easy; I only said his power required no skill, and I thought that it was understood that this statement applied once a player understood how to play the game. Regardless, I don't like playing Doc any more since his changes mainly because of the chase music but also because of how constricted and simple (not the good kind of simple) his power feels. I run loops as a M1 killer, and I shock in places to make sure that the survivor can't drop the pallet or has to drop the pallet early. Doing his static blast isn't satisfying in the slightest to me, and so I have no more fun playing him than an uncloaked Wraith, per se (in fact I have less fun bc chase music).
When I compare and contrast Doc to an uncloaked Wraith, it's to demonstrate how closely Doc can behave in chases to a killer stripped of any special abilities. You don't have any substance behind your statement of this comparison/contrast between Doc and Wraith implies I have zero understanding, so I have no way of knowing what your mind is thinking to say something that is both harmful to a constructive discussion and detrimental to people thinking you understand how Doctor works.
@DudeDelicious that second statement applies to any killer (maybe except Nurse and Hillbilly on occasion?), so that skill you mention is the skill required to play the game effectively as killer and is not specific to Doc. Doc has some extra tools to waste survivors' time, but putting them into usage is simple and doesn't require additional skill past a killer's existing skill. Shock survivors whenever there are props nearby in a chase and you wouldn't be able to get a hit from just M1 killer tactics, and use static blast when a killer has no info on survivors or has been unable to apply sufficient pressure. That's all anyone needs to know, and that's not hard to remember or do in a match.
0
