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Functionality of Mori’s are negativity influencing the gameplay experience in Dbd. Suggestions inc!
More specifically- I think that it’s the ability to Mori immediately after one hook that is the problem.
I love Moris. I love the effort that behaviour put into making every killers Mori special.
I wholeheartedly believe executing someone with a Mori should feel awesome and being executed by a Mori shouldn’t feel unfair (And in case I am not being clear - it absolutely does feel unfair half of the time - the half when you’re mori’d early).
Ideally, I believe that a Mori be something that the Killer needs to earn inside of the trial before they can use it. It should also feel incredible and provide that sick infinite power killer experience.
To that effect, here are my two suggestions:
- The easy fix: Simply make Moris only available after the second hook then- Add a special bloodpoint bonus if every survivor in the trial has progressed at least into the struggle phase on hook by any means at the time of the Mori. (Also counts if they are dead as long as they experienced the struggle phase)
- The more complex idea... Moris add a new win condition to the game and can only be used during a new type of event: The Mori event triggers after each survivor has entered the struggle phase of the sacrifice. When triggered the entity rewards the killer by locking all generators, exit gates, pallets and vaults on the map and then beginning the end-game collapse. The auras of all the survivors are periodically revealed to the Killer and performing a Mori on a survivor (or having one DC) grants the killer a permanent speed boost and extends the timer by a small amount. (Any survivors still alive when the timer reaches zero might be sacrificed via the entity spike or a hatch spawns or maybe the gates open- I genuinely do not know what would feel better - any thoughts on this would be appreciated!). This “Mori mini game” would feel like you have earned the right to stab the brains out of the survivors, and survivors would probably enjoy the mini game more than simply being removed from a trial early via a neat animation.
If someone else has other ideas or opposing views I am certainly open to hearing them, please nothing toxic here!
=)
Comments
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The only reason Mori is annoying is because how fast a survivor can be deleted in the match.
What is suggest still the survivor Breda to be hooked once, but only after a certain time. So maybe after 10 min.? This way survivors can still play the game and also moris arent that nerfed to the ground.
Also killers should have the upperhand in the late game and this change shows that.
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Absolutely, that’s an even easier fix than my “easy fix” idea.
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My idea was to use pyramids final judgement concept..what if moris got put into base BUT..just like ph they have a requirement involving death hook ..say your playing the spirit..let's say her requirement is ..6 out of phase hits , once completed she puts the survivors into the DOOMED state, each killer would have a requirement to follow for this..one that rewards good power usage instead of just being given , and would keep moris relevant to the game in a more fun and enjoyable way , then the offerings could gave large bp bonuses for successfully killing survivors in this manor ,/ kill two birds with one stone..as icing on the cake itll give killers a way to combat EGC DS, and if you wanted to sweeten the deal just add cypress mori to base..god only knows why they havent already
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I dont think it would be good if you can mori only after the second hook, that doesnt make sense to me.
You can kill them on hook anyways so you have no reason to mori
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Imagine a world where you’re not only trying to play around getting downed but every killer has an alternative way to murder you as well. That is a pretty complex idea but the ramifications for the overall satisfaction of performing a Mori would be huge. Further to that, survivors learning and playing against every different killers Mori condition sounds like it could be very rewarding. It would be challenging to add to the game for sure, but it could be absolutely incredible.
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How about no. Moris a fine stop being entitled.
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I think so too..plus nothing makes you feel more like a killer than using a stylized finisher, to show the killer played well and earned it without swaying the game in any unfair way
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a big part of the motivation for using a Mori is the idea that your killer gets to murder them with their own hands. That said, I can absolutely see your point, as far as gameplay is concerned the only gameplay benefit for Moris after the second hook is that it plays around dstrike and having to pickup/carry.
This is why the 2nd complex idea is all about “the Mori experience” as I believe that the reason Moris are in the game are for that.
as is stands, Moris don’t feel that good because the conditions for making them happen are not that fun to achieve. Playing against them can feel unfair when you’re removed a few minutes into a trial.
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Counterargument is how fast paced the game is. If you go against a team of good Survivors, SWF's or Solo, by the time you chase and hook one person, 1-2 Gens will have popped. That doesn't mean the Killer is bad, that's just bound to happen with an effective team that can do gens and hold a decent chase. By the time you come around to doing another chase, at least 1 more gen will pop. You still have 4 survivors to deal with and there's only 2 gens left to be completed. A Mori in this scenario makes sense because you now have 3 Survivors left with 2 Gens which is still highly possible to win.
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I definitely agree that Moris need to take this into account for sure, for the moment I guess that I feel the experience of being tunnel mori’d is worse than the experience of being genrushed.
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It's a fair argument, but I strongly believe that mori's shouldn't be the answer to a base-game balancing issue.
More than anything, I agree with OP's sentiment that a mori should be earned as a reward, not as a means of significantly speeding up killer's objective (by basically kicking a player from the match). Would rather see more perks and add-ons that can activate these animations so we can move away from the offerings altogether.
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Why do people make these threads wanting to nerf one side without addressing the other side also? Any idea you have about nerfing mori's, make sure you brainstorm the same for a proper nerf to keys also. You can't nerf one side, without nerfing the other, plain and simple. The sooner everyone realizes that, then maybe we ALL can come to an agreement and proper changes can be made that mostly EVERYONE agrees on, not just one side, leaving the other side pissed off.
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Because They are entitled
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I disagree that both sides must always be considered when addressing any problem. Each issue deserves its own attention and depending on the context I believe that a topic can absolutely be discussed separately. I think this is one of those times.
I don’t think killers would be pissed off by the notion that Moris need to be earned as they would then have a more rewarding experience in general with them. I believe this mostly because I play a lot of both roles.
Also. If you check out my second idea, that’s a whole rework and given that it would completely change the functionality of the Mori, I’d probably avoid calling it a nerf.
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Who, me?? I gave a lot of thought to making sure my ideas would feel fair across the board. Maybe it’s not perfect, if only I expressed that in my original post.. then maybe you’d think more of me. If it’s entitled of me to share this opinion then well, darn shucks I guess I am entitled.
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So, what is the nerf to survivor then? You can't just take something away from killer that's powerful without taking something from survivor to balance it out. Is it fair 4 survs can talk on coms and communicate the whole match with each other? No, and that's something that doesn't require a perk, doesn't require an offering, but is one of the most powerful and useful tools in the game and nothing can be done about it. Killers are SUPPOSE to have the power role, but it doesn't quite work that way at the moment unless they bring a mori, now does it. Like I said, the sooner we come together and find solutions that please BOTH sides, the better it will be for everyone. If we keep having a pissing match with each other though, nothing will ever get solved. Balls in your court man. Play how you want.
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But there is no balancing issue. A Killer who's intent to camp/tunnel will do it regardless of what they're using no different than a team of Survivors intent to gen rush. It's going to happen if they really want to do it, but the people who do this is a small minority compared to everyone else. Right now, things are fairly balanced compared to what they used to be from what I have seen. And I play Rank 1 for both sides on PC often.
Plus, they already have introduced those perks and add-ons. Devour Hope is a prime example where you have to get 5 hooks, a perk that promotes anti-tunneling and camping. But no one ever uses it because once you get to the stage of insta-downs (assuming they haven't already found it since totems are in easy to see locations), Survivors will immediately hunt it down to the ends of the earth. You also got Rancor which is an end-game Mori for 1 Survivor which is a wasted Slot if you for the rest of the game and Myer's add-ons which is also an instant kill WITHOUT the hook. Pyramid Head is another new example where you have to play long enough to get to the stage of a mini mori.
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I disagree, that is why I am here. Posting this - My opinion, which yes - I am absolutely entitled to have and share on this forum. If you want me to stop being entitled, I’m going to need the same thing from you champ.
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Sorry, I didn’t realise we were having a pissing contest but since you mentioned it.
It is a mark of ignorance that you believe that every change to one role must be accompanied by an equal change in the opposite role. That’s just not how balancing works. But I’m not even talking about a balance problem, I’m talking about an experience problem. I’m opening the floor to ideas that can help change the functionality of the Mori to reduce or remove a very negative side effect of their presence in the game. As far as power level is concerned it doesn’t actually bother me if killers are strong, I just want everyone to have a fun time playing against any killer build. That is the purpose of this post.
Beyond that, insinuating that every person must have an intimate knowledge of every ramification of any change they suggest in a feedback forum is a little short sighted. As I said in my post, I absolutely am open to ideas and opposing views. That is how we work together to solve these problems.
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Sorry, I forgot your the only person that plays this game, and we ALL need to listen to a guy who has under 20 posts because his entitlement is all that matters. 👍
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No worries, the validity of your arguments in this post have nothing to do with how you speak to people who are new to this forum
I can’t imagine having over 900 posts with the delusion that your opinion is somehow more important for it.
I would rather have 20 posts and be “entitled.” As you put it.
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👌
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Got Em lol. These survivors believe only their fun matter.
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Indeed
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Did the part where I am a killer player who hates Moris as both roles go over your heads?
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Hey killer take this massive nerf. I know it ruins your fun and makes your game harder but im not having fun. And p.s. dont touch any of my stuff.
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Changing the Mori in the ways I have suggested is by no means a massive nerf, if you genuinely believe that it is then you’re not very intelligent.
When I started this post I included that I was open to hearing opposing views. I’d love to hear from other players, with a few more brain cells.
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I’ve went against people that bring a pink more but couldn’t even use it because they couldn’t catch anybody.. can’t get Mori if the killer can’t catch you..
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Yeah, unfortunately I am not quite that good yet, working on it though!
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Lol Not a massive nerf omg are you that stupid.
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Just curious, but do you think the mori offerings are balanced? If so, I would like to hear your reasoning behind WHY they should not be changed. Do these offerings bring something good to the trials they are used in?
I know for me, they feel like a band-aid fix for killers who think they are stuck dealing with competent SWF teams, or for killer players who need to be able to skip ~1/3 of their total objective in order to win. If these were only applicable towards the end of a match (a la Devour Hope, Rancor, and even the Cypress Mori), I don't think there would be any problems. I don't personally run the Ebony/Ivory mori's anymore unless I get a ritual (or Tome Challenge) that requires killing survivors, because I'd rather get those tasty Devour Hope mori's instead.
But let's hear your side of the story, as this is a place of discussion. Surely you've got more to say beyond just calling those who disagree with you "Entitled" and "Stupid"?
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If you truely think so, then make some valid points in here. Everyone screaming about how ‘entitled’ I am is hardly helpful and it makes killers look like a bunch of children with no social skills. I know that you’re not, that’s what gets me, you people are smart and completely capable of having a conversation with someone without screaming incoherently together about the same goddamn thing on every post. I’ve intentionally opened myself up to critique so that we can discuss it. So, if you’re up for it, provide for me some valid points about why you think I am wrong and we will get to the civilised discussion that I know you’re capable of.
I play killer, I hate Moris. Getting to Mori a survivor incredibly early in a match is not a fun experience for either player, that’s why so many killers will only Mori after the second hook, I am one of those killers. I want to help make Moris fun and exciting to play with and against by offering ideas and opening myself up to criticism.
moris should be fun, they should feel incredible and they should be a little more difficult to execute. Otherwise they’re an offering that you get to occasionally pop that completely change the balance of the game in a way that actively ruins someone else’s experience. Call me whatever you like, but that’s where I think the problem lies.
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These solutions aren't viable in the current state of the game. The gens just go too fast, especially if you're spreading the pain, for you to realistically get everyone hooked twice (aka death hook) with any sort of consistency. There are exceptions of course, but the best way to get going as killer is to get someone out the game asap.
This would pretty much kill moris as it would only work on death hook anyway, so you're not getting much value from them.
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Whats The point anything i say will be disregarded.
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My preferred way of balancing moris was (was being key word here) that you could only mori people that was on death hooks. This option for me is 100% dead because It doesnt make a lot of sense with Pyramid Head being here. Why would I bring an offering to mori someone if its doesnt give me any gameplay benefits, the only one (which is easily circumvented from playing PH) is that you can mori people even if they dont have torment.
The next best I can think of would be, you can mori anyone you want when EGC starts, or maybe kind of like hatch "2 gens done?" 1 person can be morried, "3" 2 people, etc.
Unfortunately if BHV touches moris, they need to touch keys since they give survivors a similar if not equally stupid way of changing the game pace. I did the maths a long time ago to see how bad moris and keys(and similar addons) affected the game, granted only in made up scenarios.
But unless the killer gets a very early down and the survivors do a poorly timed save and that same survivor gets down again. Then the time difference between a killer using a mori and the survivors using stuff like BNP or keys was essentially not worth talking about. The biggest problem is ofc that the killer knows if you bring a key but you dont know if the killer brings a mori before the game is loading.
My only point being, yeah moris are ######### dumb (in their current itteration, but I love them as a gameplay addition), but holy ######### keys are the worst ######### thing to face as a killer as well. So many times a basically guaranteed 4k becomes a 2-0k just because people brought or found a key. Moris are the best counter play to keys, they just are.
Remember this game is not a 1v1 its a 1v4. So yeah the killer might tunnel/camp/mori you but if you are doing your part the rest will still have a fighting chance. You are not guaranteed escaping and you are not guaranteed kills and anyone who thinks that they are, are delusional and entitled people who should really consider the game from the other side.
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@Sneaky6 Here's a counter suggestion that I think is better: Moris can only be used on survivors who manage to wiggle out of a killer's grasp (including a wiggle out due to DS).
NB: The exception is still the Cypress Mori, which in niche scenarios either serves a different purpose or poses no balance issues due to no escape options being available for the last survivor.
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No changes to moris you already ruined nurse and ruin stop being greedy
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That's too complicated. A simpler change that makes moris less effective while keeping them special and also an enhancement would be to require every survivor be hooked before it can be used. That way you can't just instantly tunnel someone out of the game with it. It gives the mori some counterplay without entirely reworking or making its effect purely cosmetic.
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Yeah, that second point is a complex idea for sure. A requirement of one hook for each survivor still encourages some counterplay and removes the main issue of being tunnelled and eliminated early, this is a solid suggestion thankyou =)
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That’s certainly interesting, I’ve never considered that idea. Thanks!
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I agree that both Moris and Keys are issues in the current game state. You are also correct in saying that the fact that a survivor can be seen holding a key changes where the power lies in the Pregame lobby.
Beyond that, I’ve seen many survivors tunnel-mori’d even though there was no key in the match at all. My main issue with it is the ability to remove someone so fast. It’s incredibly unfun to play lobby simulator for 15 minutes for 2 minutes of being tunnelled and then dying. It is here that I believe something should be changed, I just don’t know exactly how.
Keys can provide an upsetting experience for the killer and a conversation about how to shift these mechanics to a better state is warranted.
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Actually, if you add something helpful I’d be happy to read and reply as I have done with many of the other replies in this thread. There are some awesome people with some incredible ideas about how to about making a change that would feel fair across the board. I’d love for you to be involved, have a read of a few of the ideas and add something constructive. =)
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Ahem. See below.
Post edited by Sneaky6 on0 -
“Behaviour nerfed gens and removed my infinite’s its so unfaiiiiiiir” - This would be you if you were a survivor main and not a killer. I genuinely think that you might be the entitled one here. Funny how that worked out..
This might be an unpopular opinion but I feel ruin is actually stronger at higher ranks now. My survivors used to just hit every great skill check anyway, the new version allows for some fun gen pressure mini games and is a heck of a lot more fun then the old version. I know that there is mixed feelings on that, but my opinion is equal to yours so I thought I’d throw it in here for good measure.
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My two ideas:
Extreme: Eliminate pink Mori’s. Green is the highest and you can only kill one person.
Less extreme (and best option IMO): Pink Mori is based on how many of the survivors you hook. You receive a token per survivor you hook. If you’ve hooked all 4 survivors, you have 4 tokens, thus you can Mori each one. If you’ve only hooked one survivor and Mori them before hooking anyone else, then you cannot Mori any other survivor (it goes away). *If you have gained more than 1 token, but less than 4 they should be able to be used on anyone that has been hooked once, not necessarily on the ones you gained tokens on.
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Oh that’s a great idea! Tokens on the Mori might help mitigate the issue at hand. So would the Mori only gain stacks before you consume the first charge?
For example: If I hook 2 survivors, then Mori one - would I have one charge left and that’s all, or would it allow me to still pick up the charges from the other 2 survivors?
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best option imo; you can only mori survivors who have wiggled off previously (including DS). Exception is cypress.
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I wish I had an answer, and I guess if the community is struggling to come to some conclusion I am guessing the devs arent having a fun time either. But maybe keys and moris could add some kind of additional game mechanic for both sides.
Keys: Lets say survivors took keys with them, since they can technically bring 4 (but there is no point since 1 key opens the hatch for free usage.) Maybe the hatch should only allow 1 to escape early with a key (unless more are brought/found...although I dont think keys should be able to found at all at the very least not without a perk). And then after that only allow one more to escape at the end when all gens are done and you are the last survivor. In this scenario only 2 would be able to escape because they brought a key. There is also the potential of giving keys a charge time so they cant just randomly find the closed hatch and instantly escape. It aint easy but its a bit easier to balance the key than the mori.
Moris: Either balance moris around how many gens are left, like maybe if 4 gens are done, moris are now usable or some such. Maybe 5 maybe only EGC (though I think this is too weak). They could also just be something to switch up the game pace. Lets say that for each time you mori someone the survivors action speed increase, they heal faster, they repair faster stuff like that. Like the fear of death is speeding them up. Not insanely much but kind of enough to make up for the loss of a comrade through direct murder not hook sacrifices.
You could also just change how they work, like no one ever uses the yellow mori because its just not easy to use. But lets say that the moris only let you kill 1 guy no matter what but maybe he doesnt even have to be hooked, you can just down him and be done with it, but just at different stages of the game. Lets say Yellow only at the end game collapse, green only when at least 4 gens are done. Red only at 1-2 gens are done.
These are just ideas and I would prefer if they werent taken as me thinking they are perfect game balancers. I legit just want to not see a key and think, I have to bring a mori because of how unbalanced and unfun keys are to the killer. In other words most killer players I personally know sees a key and thinks:
"Ok this guy is an ######### and dont even consider that I too want to play the game, so I'll bring a mori and now none of us gets a fun game"
I assume when survivors play they instantly tense up when they see the unturned offering and assume (correctly 90% of the time) that its a mori. Personally I kind of like it when a mori appears once in a while. Because that match just became a lot more interesting as a survivor. But thats my personal take. I know a lot (I mean look at this thread) of survivors hate moris because they feel it cheapens and shortens the match. I cant really argue against that because to me its all how you look at it, and depends on what you want from your game.
Ofc its no fun even for me if moris appear all the time or if the killer abuses the mechanic and just camp/tunnels their first survivor. But if its like lets say 5% of matches and the killer plays the game "normally" then Its usually just increases my fun. Just my take
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I really think moris needs a change!
Fact is that the devs try to balance the game around 4 vs 1. So if the killer have the possibility to kill/mori a survivor during the first 60 seconds ( find quick first survivor and hook him, than tunnel and instand mori) that would destroy any balance and takes away all chances and fun (because playing a game should be fun) for this survivor.
I saw suggestions for mori-change which I really like:
The killer can start mori as soon as all 4 survivor were hooked onetime.
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