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Why does BHVR hide SWFs post game?
I've heard the argument that killers remember who is who but then why should that matter?
Comments
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Heard that the inability to view profiles recently was a bug.
But yeah, you can tell who's a SWF anyway just by looking at the ranks generally. All those 1, 2, 2, 18 groups that you get as a newbie killer are pretty obvious.
(Funny, because I'm watching a stream right now with a SWF doing that while they all trash talk the "idiots" and "morons" and "stupid killers" they're facing. Yeah, bravo, great job beating those rank 18's.)
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Literally no reason. Adding something to the end game to show who is a swf or isn't wouldn't hurt the game at all. The only thing that would change is the players in the swf being toxic in end game chat who say your just bad and they are all solos.
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I can't think of a reason, it would also stop the argument and toxicity of killers having a bad game and calling them SWFs but knowing they aren't or vice vera having a bad game and knowing they were so don't feel that bad.
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It's not hidden as much as it wasn't ever being tracked in the first place. That's why for years there was no option to regroup after a match. And even now, afaik, the game lobby doesn't "remember" who was in a SWF group once it finishes creating a match.
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I know the issues you talk of where the SWF survivors are / aren't in the lobby as they should be and a new lobby has to occasionally be recreated.
This is nothing to do with the ability to show SWFs at the end of the game and can only think of positives to showing SWFs.
However the idea of suggesting to hide even more information like ranks/mmr ratings makes me worry about the direction.
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Because why does it matter if they are friends or playing together what harm does that really do to you?
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Oh hey, this guy's daily thread about SWF.
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Looks like there is no reason... looks like I'll have to keep on posting until BHVR answer the question
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I want to know if I was facing a solid group of solos, or a group using the SWF crutch to play the game. What harm does it do you for killers/solos to know who's who?
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Your question is similar to why ask a question. Why does players names, rank, groups etc. Your question is an attempt to derail the question of why do BHVR hide this information.
I posted this...
"I can't think of a reason, it would also stop the argument and toxicity of killers having a bad game and calling them SWFs but knowing they aren't or vice vera having a bad game and knowing they were so don't feel that bad."
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@andyollolloll My 'question' was to be taken at face value, as a counter point to the previous post I was responding to. Nor do I see how it 'derails' your post, since it agrees with your original statement.
The only real answer would be that the devs pretend SWF doesn't exist. Hence, no real push at any form of balance outside one perk change. If they ignore it, they don't have to do anything about it, such as post game SWF icons.
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I don't know. The game is over at that point, so it doesn't harm anyone by knowing if the Survivors were together or not.
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Knowing this community, salty killers would ######### talk SWF players for being SWF if they didn't risk to look like idiots if there is no SWF.
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Honestly i feel this is why. The end game chat will just get more opportunities at being toxic. And it can also add more "hate" to swf groups. If you had 3 games as killer and lost 1 but noticed there was 3 swf icons you'd just blame swf and not look back on your mistakes as often.
Besides if a killer really wanted to know they can always attempt to ask. And generally you can tell when you face a swf group too so its not needed as much
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So you feel the devs need to add a feature to satisfy your curiosity?
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Sure, why not? There is a difference between solo and SWF. It would be a nice step toward making that difference shown, so that the really good solo players can get credit, instead of being lumped with SWF.
I'd also want an increase in solo/killer rewards for SWF involvement, but that's a discussion for another thread.
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Cause who should they accuse of being swf if they would see they lost against four solos? Then killers wouldnt have any false excuses anymore.
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This one really isn't a complaint... more of an observation of a mechanic that should be there for the benefit of the killer post game. It is harder to win against a SWF for obvious reasons, so knowing that you went against that in the match can tell you at least something, so a killer can learn from the match, even if they lose.
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It wouldn't even be something special if those killers were rank 1 instead of 18 (referring to your example) as SWF is just plain broken compared to a bunch of uncoordinated solos anyways.
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Whether or not you went against a SWF isn't a requirement for learning, it's an out. There's no reason that you can't learn from your mistakes against a SWF, and all that showing you at endgame would do is make killers that could be trying to improve shrug off losses and blame "OP SWF"
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The negative post comments we've all heard before and currently SWFs know they are and solos feel insulted to be called SWFs.
To simply show SWFs at endgame would also ...
1) helping reduce the damage as a goto for "the devs being survivor sided" argument
2) killers improve and adapt e.g. facecamping an SWF player can lead to a 4k or losing if I try to injure them all.
3) solo survivors/small SWFs improve knowing the team consisted of players on comms
We know SWFs have an advantage or lets say the strong 'comms' perk and like with any perk some SWFs don't use it and some abuse it. BHVR are aware of this but creates negativity and toxicity when say they are going to address this (by buffing solo survivors) but haven't acted. (*buffing kindred helped but fails being also available to use by SWFs when needed).
Again I can't see any reason not to, if I've missed someones point please repost
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Excellent, all we need is for BHVR to implement this asap. This should be done quite easily.
Pending the "the devs not being survivor sided"
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Its harder to learn any killer when going against a highly skilled team, as compared to going against solos. Knowing you went against a team allows a killer to at least understand that them being outplayed wasn't just because the survivors were extremely good, but also had voice comms so they could coordinate. There is a whole new level of difficulty when you bring SWF into an analysis of any game of dbd... It is not a guarantee to win, but it makes the win for survivors easier. Knowing who talked to who will let you know that they might do it again if you see them. That is, if they keep their name the same, as Steam can change names anytime.
Ignoring that is just an out as well, because then you are shifting blame from you to the obvious 4 man SWFs you go against all the time (even if you dont and the data would tell you that).
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Well put, the issue would also be more frustrating and confusing if new once the killer reaches rank 12/13 when groups of red ranks appear.
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100% because they don't want to show how much SWF actually affects every match. Especially in red ranks, almost every single survivor group is composed of at least two friends together. I play mostly killer and I can't recall the last lobby I had that was pure solo.
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It seems there are many SWFs on this game at higher ranks or i'd guess I currently it is blocked/hidden post game.
Playing with Friends is fine but only having positives and no negatives to this is a balance issue but I guess not for this post.
Players who target an SWF would find it difficult with restricted top tier addons, targeting specific SWFs would already happen as killers that would do that would already be recording player names.
All this talk about this simple feature should have been implemented long ago though.
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Even when I play solo survivor I want to know if i've and we've had a good game or have been helped by playing with 2 or 3 SWFs.
Worrying like hidden MMR. I guess it is a "problem what problem, you're only speculating.".
It can be a cause for killers not to adapt/improve and be toxic towards survivors by not knowing.
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Same, I play only solo as survivor and I would still want this. However lets be real, the only reason why they wouldn't add it post game is because it will show just how many SWF groups there actually are, and it wouldn't bode well for their "SWF barely have a higher escape %" rhetoric.
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Simply enable the feature that should have been in the game since SWFs were introduced.
Till then players will continue to believe they are survivor sided and BHVR can say "problem what problem, you're only speculating".
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Y'all are missing the point though. At the end of the day, SWF doesn't give you skill. It gives you communications, which has value, but a group of mediocre survivors will still be mediocre in a group, just slightly less so. All adding SWF visibility in endgame lobby will do is breed toxicity and encourage killers that likely would have lost against 4 solos anyway to just blame the "OP SWF" every time they lose and there happen to be friends playing in the lobby. I've experienced this myself: I went against a billy with an ebony mori while duo queueing with my boyfriend, and we both managed to survive. We weren't toxic, we didn't taunt, the only thing either of us did besides play normally was my bf used a styptic to get out the exit gate that the billy was guarding. We then proceeded to play against him 3 more times that night, and every time he brought instasaw with an ebony, camped and tunneled both of us, and mori-cancelled both of us for like 30 seconds. After the second time, we asked why he was being a jerk, and he said "it's what you toxic SWF bitches deserve". All adding SWF visibility is going to do is make people like that ruin the fun of all the players just trying to play with their friends. SWF isn't some instant win button, it's just people playing together.
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Hi @Furry_Fuccboi you posted a large post so commenting on these snippets...
"...mediocre survivors will still be mediocre in a group, just slightly less so..."
SWF survivors on comms are less they were solo? less than mediocre?
"...All adding SWF visibility in endgame lobby will do is breed toxicity and encourage killers that likely would have lost against 4 solos anyway to just blame the "OP SWF" every time they lose..."
Killer already blame "OP SWF" with information of SWFs they can understand that no it wasn't just some skilled solo players or yes it was 4 SWFs that they killed. Information to the solo players, killers and survivors would give them the knowledge they played badly and to improve. When I played killer and before I realised SWFs used comms I used to wonder why I would destroy survivors and then vice-vera with survivors at a certain rank.
"SWF isn't some instant win button, it's just people playing together." True and not true, it's people playing together but with only advantages and no negatives, then multiplied if comms are used. There has been no balance to SWFs and solo survivors but this isn't the thread to discuss that.
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They will be less mediocre.
And you still haven't answered my question: what is the benefit of learning the team you went against is SWF? It doesn't change the actions you did during the game, and it won't change the outcome. The only thing it does is validate the idea that certain games where you were outplayed aren't your fault, even if your outlook would have been different were it 4 solo players. SWF advantage is not so great as to invalidate any mistakes you made during the game, and it breeds toxicity for little to no gain. There's no reason to need to see.
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Not always true, especially with how awful matchmaking has been recently. I have been running solo queue a lot as a rank 1 and ended up in a lobby with 2 green ranks and one brown rank survivor and a green rank killer.
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Also this kinda sums up why I would be opposed to this. I've had plenty of experiences where killers who played against me and some friends previously decided to bring in their most OP add ons and an ebony mori and slug and camp and tunnel and mori spam for 2 minutes and then come to post game chat and say that's what we get for being in a SWF. That's what we deserve for having fun with our friends. This would just literally create more of that.
And then on top of that, they'll just take away the accountability and chalk it up to "Oh, I just lost because it's a SWF" while ignoring the fact that they chased someone too long or they weren't patrolling gens enough or any of the other mistakes they may have made.
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Exactly. If you need to know whether or not the team that just beat you is SWF or not, you're not looking to improve, you're looking for excuses.
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