Change to make Spirit more interactive for survivors
Spirit's biggest problem IMO is that it's basically all guess work for survivors. It gets to a point where you basically just roll the dice to see if you guess what shes doing right. This change maintains the mind game of phasing while giving survivors a little bit more information to work with.
Remember how with old freddy when you were being put to sleep how freddy would appear in and out of existence and good freddys could use that to mind game survivors?
They should do something like that with spirit.
First of all, rework passive phasing addons to affect this new mechanic. Passsive phase can stay or go, it's not really useful anyways.
Basically every 2 or 3 seconds while phasing a "ghost" of the spirit appears revealing the immediate position of the spirit to the survivors. When this happens there will be an affect on the spirits screen so they know the survivors just saw where they were, thus initiating a mind game every 2 or 3 seconds.
Passive phase addons can be changed to make this occur less often
Comments
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That's not the issue with Spirit. The issue isn't 'not knowing where she is while she phases'; the issue is not always knowing that she has begun to phase. There are certain minor, very missable glitches that are nowhere near reliable to trust all the time that let you know she started phasing, and her glass shards glow on certain cosmetics. But you have to be almost next to her, other side of a vault etc, to see it most of the time. You could be hooked looking down at her, and you may not even see her shards glow from 1-2m away. So the thing that needs to change is either her Husk, or her phasing noises being heard even while in the TR.
Her passive phasing is really cool, it can be the difference between a hit and whiff/stun. The thing about it is that she doesn't know when she is doing it (killer pov). There is no unique audio or visual hand animation to let the killer know when they just passive phased. So that may, and most likely can lead to a player thinking their movement was good and confusing, when really it just coincided with a passive phase. So maybe they could add more audio from a killer pov for her.
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Yeah, that wouldn't hurt her gameplay at all. It would actually increase interaction and mindgame potential for both sides
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I think my change is a good enough solution for that too. You can still pretend to phase but only for a few seconds because people will know when they don't see any ghosts that you are faking.
And like I said they can keep passive phasing, it's useless and so are the addons that affect it, they should just make this addons that affect it for this new mechanic instead because those addons would actually be useful.
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It's difficult enough as it is to use her phasing ability, why does it need to be changed to make it easier for survivors?
It's next to impossible to land a hit using her power even with stridor and predator. If anything she should be given more information when she's in phase mode to help her locate survivors.
I'm sorry but if a killers power is only useful when you're faking using your power then that's super lame. I grinded to get her to level 30 so I could have at least one teachable unlocked from each killer but otherwise I never play her because her power sucks.
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Pass..people will just canp pallets and abuse her collision heavily..its be a death sentance
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No itd just make spirit the only blind one..and would crush her ..weve already seen what shes like when survivors hold the info..she was trashed
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@immortalls96 how would it make her the only blind one, she would be able to use her activating phase as a mindgame. And she'd also still have ears. She's a braindead killer atm, the only killer that holds the control in every tile she goes to. Yeah she can be outplayed, but it is all guess work for survivors. From guessing that she is actually phasing instead of just stood there (certain cosmetics don't show the very missable telltale), to actually trying to manipulate movement/scratch marks to avoid her - which can very easily be negated by Stridor, and a Spirit simply staying in phase for an extra half-second to gauge the accurate location. More changes do need to be made to this killer
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No she doesnt, her best addons were shredded and she lost her collision providing use for survivors as a juking method , a killer is supposed to hold power over the chase because it's a 1v4..and spirits gameplay is only as simple as the survivors be ause running in a straight line wont work, go figure, I'm sorry but everyone that say this always has minimal experience vs good teams or simply doesnt play her at all..its amazing how long I can keep spirit going despite the apparent need to ruin her as you suggest, honestly you just need to learn to do more than run in circles..its the very same with ph..this kind of thinking is why I literally can fall asleep as survivor...its easy mode 90 percent of the time because most of the cast is weak..I only really enjoy facing the top tiers due to this.
Simply put..her entire kit depends on her remaining unknown..take that away and suddenly shes trash again..we saw it in her ptb, we saw it with how nurse was handled, you cant take away a killers identity and possibly think it's reasonable from anything other than a strongly biased perspective
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@immortalls96 lol you actually think Spirit is fine as she is?
Mate, thinking Spirit is braindead doesn't immediately expose that someone as a bot player. I guess you didn't read my comment properly, no suprise there, because if you did, then you would have understood I was talking explicitly about the close range aspect of her gameplay; it is heavily in her favour if she has ears attached to her head. That and a basic understanding of killer (but that argumeny is niether here nor there since bots hold no validity over arguments). Yes, you can keep her running, you can mindgame and outplay her. But on the survivor side it takes a whole lot of luck on top of the necessary effort. That aspect is what my comment was arguing, so pretty much all of your reply to me is pointless.
And another huge LOL for you, the Nurse changes have minimal impact on her gameplay, all it did was make it so survivors get a little tiny bit more of a chance to get a reprieve and escape a chase; before, she was an oppressive killer. As she is now, Nurse punishes bad players playing her and has zero impact on players that are actually good.
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Says the one who never plays nurse I'd bet a million dollars to that , considering the best nurse mains all but quit on her but hey..whatever bro..keep practicing and you'll get to level of players spirit is made to fight..till then..ta
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Edit: nevermind misread comment I was quoting
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Her "best addons" were blatantly overpowered. With the saya/tsuba equipped you could exit phase without even having to know where survivors are and get hit because your lunge would be so crazy long that it goes around entire loops. Despite the nerf to these addons, the wakazashi saya remains one of her stronger addons, while tsuba is still decent.
The amulet was also baltantly overpowered, making just about every aspect of your phase better, it was brainless. It's nerf was changed to just provide duration, but reduce your speed. When combined with a speed addon, this addon is extremly good, because duration not only allows you to potentially phase for longer, it effetively increases the recharge rate of your phase.
Not to mention the activation rate addons are unchanged, and those are very good as well.
Her only addons that are terrible are the passive phase ones, and generally the recharge rate ones are bad (but not terrible) because duration is objectively stronger.
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The amulet didnt grant very big numbers and yes I'm aware of the current amulet uses however it's not worth it unless you run an iri addon,/ the combs was actually nerfed too if I recall correctly , my point was she was already hit heavily and her skill cap increased , to remove her last few semi viable mind games would just encourage pallet camping to avoid her..then the spirit is the only blind one..that was my entire point
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Spirit is the second strongest killer in the game and is without a doubt the least interactive killer in the game for survivors to play against, her power giver her a 50/50 at winning ANY TILE and there's nothing the survivor can do to make it not a 50/50.
I don't want you to take this the wrong way because it's not meant as an insult but you have no idea what your talking about and have SO MUCH to learn before coming to these forums to talk about balance.
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A 50 50 means you can only choose 2 moves..and that's incorrect
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Do you know what pallets and windows are in this game? You have to be on one side or another, that's a 50/50. You could just stand in a dead zone and die 100% of the time so ya, I guess that's a third alternative....
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I'd recommend playing the game for a while before you make a statement like that..more likely you'll be taken seriously , so! Your one of those who run in a straight line from her and just..well..die because you were being predictable , you see a while back they removed collision from phasing spirits, this way theres more mind games available via doubling back and being unpredictable, you can also fake pallet drips by not going through them before dropping and windows can be double vaulted as well, these have been proven effective methods for mind games and making the spirit have to make better reads in turn..do these things and you'll find spirit is given a bad rap by those who dont think outside the box
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You're clueless, it's OK, I'll explain it to you.
Survivor perspective: you're running from the killer (spirit in this case), you run up to a window, you have some options, you could fast vault and then slow vault back, you could slow vault it and then walk away, you have "OPTIONS" on how to confuse the spirit on which side you are on but regardless of what you choose the spirit can pick 1 of the 2 sides and they'll pick right half the time. Spirit can find people with sound alone so there's only so much you can do in a chase and no matter what you do any spirit who's learned the initial learning curve of tracking survivors while phasing is going to have a 50/50 shot at guessing right at any tile.
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Buddy I've kept spirits on the line for very long periods of time..see you only use examples of stuff any killer can do..if the window is a 50 50 for spirit then any other killer could go around too..in which case spirit risks missing a swing by blinding herself to phase..so in that regard your using a t wall as a point of spirit but that tile is the same for every killer, therefore..your point has no weight to it
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I realize you equated picking 1 side over another at a pallet or window as "running in a straight line and dying" you must be pretty dumb to have inferred that from my message LOL.
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Go to bed hahaha.
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@immortalls96 you're a patronizing one ain't ya. How about pulling your head back into the daylight for a few seconds and realise where you're talking out of. A great Spirit player will get you 9/10 times in a close quarters loop, since all they need to do is have ears. The argument isn't about Spirit in general, imma say it again now that my words, hopefully, aren't being muffled by the insides of your cheeks; the discussion is about her from close range, she sees your movement in grass, she hears your direction, so to mindgame her from close-range, you have to make a godly prediction, and guess correctly all the time. Her perspective is simple patience and listening. (Yes, you can hear her footsteps, but again, hers is simple patience, listening, observation). I'm done with you now. :)
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Are you done? You've just said nothing based off factual realities and just made assumptions...I've played and against spirit since day 1 of her release..I think I know her pretty well by now
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Ah..now I understand a few things..I'd recommend you stop before you just do yourself harm
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You really don't understand, as Onyx said you gotta get your head out of you know where because you quite frankly have no idea what your talking about. Try not to hurt yourself too much thinking about it. :)
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So you just want to make her an entirely m1 killer who just uses her phase to get around the map. Sounds fun. I'm not sure when I'd ever think that blinding myself but staying mostly visible to survivors would be a great choice.
Please understand that these vaunted "mindgames" are always just 50/50 guessing games where survivors usually have the information advantage. Spirit just turns that dynamic on it's head, but only in a looping scenario when she has phase available.
My advice would be to prioritize not getting into close range encounters with a deadly murder ghost? "Interactivity" is not so simple as to be boiled down to the limited and dull mechanics of running in circles around a pile of trash, and does not have to be the exact same thing for every killer. If you keep her at medium to long range and force her to use her phase to catch up to you, she doesn't have it for the window or pallet jump and becomes as one dimensional as you're suggesting to make her by default. Yeah, it means playing with a head for stealth. Yeah, it means paying a lot more attention to where Spirit is on the map, in a macro sense. Yeah, it means the usual Benny Hill stuff isn't going to work as well as it normally does.
The reason Spirit is a top-tier killer is because survivors tend to eventually get horse-blinded into a loop-or-die mentality - which is a trait shared by pretty much all the "top-tier" killers. They're only powerful because they can subvert the survivor meta playstyle in some way. Every killer is going to try to push you into situations where they have the advantage. For Spirit (and a few others) the survivors do that for them, once survivors get "good" enough to recognize their usual advantage in a loop.
For what it's worth, I main killer and usually rank up to about 5 and then buy a new killer and start over with no perks to de-pip out of the toxic red-rank dumpster fire (I generally average a 2k in any game from rank 12 to rank 5 - survivors don't necessarily get better they just play differently, and are 100% better sports in the green/purple range). I can tell you that playing Spirit gets easier the better I am ranked and the more red-ranked survivors I have in the game.
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I'm a vet in dbd..I know exactly what I'm saying lol..
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When survivors approach a pallet, it's guess work to determine whether or not they're actually going to vault it. When you use the spirit's power, it's guess work to determine where they are if they start walking. When putting down traps as the trapper, it's guess work to determine if the survivor is going to step on it. When you try to interrupt and grab a survivor, it's guess work if the server is going to allow you to do it.
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Except it's not because you can use your ears/look at the environment to know. And if you're just guessing with your traps as a trapper, then you're bad at trapper. You're supposed to push survivors towards them. Grabs being bugged is just that, bugged.
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