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is NOED ever going to be removed?
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NOED is good
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Not to get nitpicky. *Nitpicking intensifies*
But actually you can get up to 32k without killing a single survivor, if you abuse the endgame collapse hooks. Its hard to do that without actively farming however as most people see someone get hooked in the endgame collapse and go "Well you're dead, peace m8" (actually even farming people tend to do that...)
Without abusing endgame collapse you can get the upside of 28k as IIRC the max hook value outside of endgame collapse is (500*8+200*4) so 28,800 is the maximum without using the endgame collapse hook bonus. Of course thats assuming you max out all other categories which is fairly easy without killing survivors. Its always a fun fact to think about that a killer can achieve 32k BP without killing a single survivor.
As to Noed. It puts too much focus on the killing aspect not the denial aspect of killer. Ultimately the killers job is to deny escape for as long as possible (Of course this in itself can get boring if its done too effectively without actually killing). This is why the killer gains bonus BP for hooking during the endgame collapse. It FURTHER denies escape by forcing the survivors to decide between saving an ally or letting them die. Noed breaks this portion of the endgame rather than forcing the killer to attempt to deny escape (An ever futile effort i may add as most killers should know), it allows the killer to go on a killing spree completely ignoring the endgates in most situations. It also means any attempt to save a hooked survivor is suicidal, meaning that saving is out of the question (Or maybe you just want to die?). This means it doesn't deny anyone or anything it specifically has one purpose, gain kills until the hex is removed. As can be seen by this thread alone the most heavily debated aspects of the game are always those that involve killing survivors over denying escape. Moris are equally as contentious a debate.
While the purpose of this thread is a rant, i will refer to a previous thread that discussed alterations to Noed. Particularly making this perk focus on the theme of denial, granting exposed and revealing the aura of survivors that attempt to open exit gates would be a WONDERFUL rework that would make the perk keep with the killer theme of denying escape rather than pure killing.
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Noed is one of the easiest perks to counter.
Gitgud and do bones.
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Lol, typical surv main.
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"Survivors shouldn't be punished for actually doing a good job and getting to end game"
So why does the match even continue after all the gens are completed? Shouldn't it just end the moment the last gen pops? I mean, what you're basically suggesting is that the match is already over, the survivors have won. How dare the killer present some sort of danger when survivors are supposed to just be running their victory lap.
Let's face it, once an exit gate is open, the killer is a lot less dangerous. If survivors can work together halfway decently, the killer might as well just stand in a corner and go AFK rather than attempt to attempt to present an obstacle to their escape because it'll be just as effective.
You know, in normal games, the end-game boss gets stronger, not weaker. Rarely in a game do players get to a certain point where the opposition stands aside and says, "Oh, wow, you got this far? Here, let me hold the door open for you on your way to the trophy." And in DbD, the survivors actually have a chance to prevent their opposition from ever getting stronger just by cleansing dull totems.
Do I like going down to NOED? No, of course not. I also don't like seeing a gen kicked back to 0 by PGTW or being found because the survivor healing me failed a skill check. It's part of the game.
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I love your idea of how NOED should be reworked. I for one would use it then if it was used the way you mentioned granted I do like using it now once in a while with Blood Warden to shock the toxic survivors who refuse to just leave when I am trying to let them escape but I would be okay. =)
I agree though and already thought that about this game. The killers role is to extend the game for as long as possible while chasing and stopping survivors. I mean yes it is also about killing but that is such a small percent of the overall point system. That is why I almost do not care to kill and do more applying pressure and kicking gens and chasing. Yes I will hook them a few times but that is for both of us. It benefits me with points and the survivors with the rescue and heal. That is why I never camp and I refuse to tunnel. I do my best to make the game fun for everyone. I like the idea of NOED showing killers in range of the exit gate and not just give killers a quick one two punch.
I have seen way to many hags and Trappers getting easy 4k kills by trapping the exit gates and the game is over because they can't even crawl out of the gates because they are not open. I mean believe me I am all for doing totems and I do as many as I can find. I just sadly play solo Survivor and I know for a fact most players do not do a totem if it is dull. I watched MANY teammates dry hump dull totems and leave them only later to be killed by NOED. I do my best to get them all but if they reworked Hex:Ruin because that was a problem (when really it wasn't) then NOED should be reworked as well maybe using this idea you offered. =)
Overall I have no issue with any perks and think each perk has its use and spot in the game either as a training wheel for new players but then drop them and use other perks. However things like BT and NOED become crutches for players who refuse to learn other ways of playing. Sorry if that offends people. =(
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While I will say that survivors have many grievances that are valid, they tend to be weaponized in order to gaslight the opposition into playing the way they like which often causes a handicap. When you refuse then you're met with racial slurs and harassment at the end of the match. Like you said, you have to literally chase someone and hit them. Like you're the only person who mentioned this.
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Noed gets removed every game I play.
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You could also play better.... like the rest of us. NOED has never been an issue for me
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“also any killer mains who reply to this defending NOED your comment is being overlooked I don't associate with negative vibes”
that’s not you “Not associating” with negative vibes, that’s you REFUSING to hear anyone else’s opinion but your own
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It's come to my attention from playing the game for years that some Killers benefit greatly from perks like NOED. Killers like Trapper, Wraith, Pig, and some others have poor map control and gen pressure and can easily get gen rushed. A perk like NOED can allow these Killers to get kills in situations like this.
But on the other hand, as a survivor, NOED can be very unfun to fight. When I play, I usually always see NOED on Myers or Ghostface, whom I never expect it on. NOED might be unfun, but it does have counterplay to it. Similarly, a perk that I've seen some Killers complain about, DS, also has counterplay. We really shouldn't focus on changing a perk that doesn't really need changing, when there are some truly awful perks in the game that need changing.
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I solo almost exclusively. Doing bones isn't that hard.
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It really isn't as bad as you are are moaning about. Sure its frustrating but it is not truly fair when the game itself is technically skewered in a way that will sometimes show a favor towards one side or another. You can argue that I'm wrong and maybe I am but I've seen countless times of a killer wanting to have fun, wasn't being toxic, and next thing you know three gens get done while some jerk decides to do an infinite loop while another person sabotaged two hooks prior to the gens.
Whether you agree with me or not is of no concern to me, but asking for NOED to be removed means perks like D-Strike should go as well. Perks are made to give an advantage, advantages arent supposed to be fair.
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the game isnt over and you didnt win until you escape sir. Noed has a hard counter. Its called doing 5 totems. If you die to it, its really on you and your team. Cant really blame the killer or call them bad for running a meta perk lol
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Imagine thinking 3 survivors having to cleanse 1 totem and 1 survivor having to cleanse 2 totems is too much extra work.
Its a perk that can NEVER activate if the survivors choose so. I like NOED because it shows the survivor mindset. Come on here anyday and likelyhood is there is at least one cry baby NOED topic on the front page.
Again..for a PERK THAT CAN BE REMOVED.
Probably the same geniuses I run into when playing solo survivor. Where I knock out 3 dull totems and STILL noed friggin goes live. You guys do NONE of them?
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So what i hear is noed bad because it make killer strong even though they have had 3 or 2 perks the entier game and they might not get to use it because hey you can do bones or are surivor mains to simple minded to rember where thay can be And lets not bring up the big 5 perks for surivor. Notice how someone said not all perks are equally ballanced but none are broken got upset and put a meme "a very bad one at that" that not only made you look like a clown but the entier circus
And if you want people to listen to you be realistic show evidence and dont be a jerk. But i guess you havent passes 5th grade so i see how you struggle with that
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And yes i know im being rude
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Just cleanse.
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I agree noed is a terrible perk, i don't understand why killers use it, every 2nd game, the killer has it. I am yet to see then get a kill with it. Does help that i run small game and remove noed before end game, but yet the keep using it.
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Many bad killers will wear it, but it's fun to wear it once in a while
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You keep forgetting that you as the survivor can totally remove a perk from the killer just by doing bones and yet you complain? Pffftt
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All I'm saying is I've played killer for 5000+ hours and recently quite the game after lack of updates. But the fact you basically shame a lot of killers and then say that you dont want negative energy just makes you sound stupid. Also if you dont want noed just dont play or rub the totems, not that hard man
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"TOO LATE the negative energy has entered the thread"
So sensitive...
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I just want to to know. Survivors is easier than killer. And I'm sure if the dev theam heard you they wouldn't go" okay since this ONE guy says he dont want to do bones and he says it's hard solo queuing we are going to change a whole perk that is on the weaker side of the game because its "annoying""
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Okay so now we are shitting on mories. Survivors have multiple perks and add ons that can make them instantly heal in an actual chase. And killers cant have like 3 instadown perks that they have to work hard to get? Also you arent supposed to win a 3v1 that's why their are 4 survivors
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this feel like a bait post. But by your logic DS should also be removed cause the killer job is to chase, hook and sacrifice survivors and DS rewards bad gameplay from survivors and punish the killer for doing his job
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Fun Fact: Survivors possess the ability to remove NOED from the game via a little known talent called: breaking dull totems.
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Let that sink in that you only have 3 upvotes in a survivor echochamber that is the DBD forums.
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No Ed does not bother me when playing survivor and I dont use it playing killer because I like different builds that dont rely on end game. I also dont use adrenaline. Another end game perk.
However I do think No Ed should go back to the way it was before. Tier up the perk to earn the reward of it being better... Its to ez now and way to common.
I like seeing different killer builds as well as survivors. Gets boring seeing same perks over and over.
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If the killer gets more than a 2K camping with NOED it is 100% on the survivors.
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Honestly if you're gen rushing enough and the killer isn't getting enough downs to keep up, you need to 'do bones'. You can tell within the first 5 minutes of a round if there's a good chance the killer has NoEd.
Last night I had a round and got a couple totems done but couldn't seem to find anymore. Last gen gets completed, and we robbed the killer of his NoEd.
Different round, killer was doing very terrible. However, by early game I knew they had Corrupt Intervention. Got to a gen I could do, they had Ruin. They hit someone when I was nearby and I screamed, Infectious Fright. Got hit by the killer, ouch Franklin's. Boom, no need to do bones.
If by process of elimination, you can't figure out what 4 perks they have, do the GD bones.
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Can they please just fix hitboxes and dedicated servers first?
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the perks is ok, gen rushing is out of control.
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Just do bones. If you don't want to do bones, then just leave - it only activates when you're basically free to escape. NOED's only really ever going to be a problem for you if you don't play smart during the match and you're being overly altruistic.
I mean, the thing doesn't even kick in until you've already essentially won and you've got the whole game to make sure it doesn't even work then. But that's somehow still too strong?
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the most they should do is offer a totem counter in a perk or as basekit to help Solos. and please give me your best Anti-NOED phrases so that I may say why the are wrong
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Slap the totem counter on Small Game.
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I haven't played survivor in a bit so maybe I'm unaware. Are solos unable to do bones during the match? Can they not just leave after last gen? There's only been one patch since my last survivor game but I don't remember either of those things being a thing.
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Yes actually! And it's so easy!
Just DO THE BONES.
Also, "anyone not agreeing with me I'll ignore". So youre just here to ######### in an echo chamber to be told you're right and not actually converse. Got it.
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I'm a survivor main Bro seriously but I think NOED isn't bad. I've seen sooo many toxic survivors when I play killer either teabagging or doing nonsense like that, that there is a sick glee when you can catch them with NOED and just know they're going down.
Don't get me wrong it is frustrating AF when someone manages to catch you especially if you've played strong and done a lot of generators. But no where does it say "If you do all gens you win and killer must stop". I get your frustration but it doesn't need nerfed.
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Its not even bad you can break it,its a chance for the killer to have a come back its 4v1 for one chase and hook just one and you survivors can have three gens done, the entire game is unfair on the killer for real. You can do so good and still not win with killer, yet survivors do one gen a run and break even plus you have dead hard, decisive strike , flashlights, keys, maps, chest , lockers ,etc and killers cant break those yet killer has a come back perk that you can break an you want to ######### about it, gen 1 minute to turn on and have 3 hooks per person, one chase and hook can take from 1 to 3 minutes so 💁 stop bitching about perks killers have
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the main thing is the lack of communication means that often solos will have no idea how many totems have been done and how many are left, which discourages people from even trying to cleanse them all without a SWF. (source: my solo games/hell)
as for leaving after the gen, they still need to open the gate and do the mandatory T-bag, and that bit of time could make all the difference between letting them escape or getting the kill. (source: I main killer/hell 2: hell harder)
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If you are discouraged from cleansing totems, that's a you problem, not a solo problem. You often have no idea if other survivors are working on gens either (unless you're hooked or in the dying state), but you still work on them. You need to do the same for totems.
If survivors stick around without cleansing totems to taunt the killer, getting hit by NOED is just the natural outcome and 100% deserved. There's nothing that needs to be fixed.
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"You shouldn't be able to win because you couldn't confirm a kill the whole match."
Actually I believe the devs have stated many times that they never want a situation to feel like it's hopeless. That's the reason the gates power up when the hatch is shut despite you being unable to power the gates the whole match, or find the hatch yourself.
The game isn't over until everyone's on the post game screen, and anything can happen up until then. You want to guarantee the killer gets nothing, then leave when you have the chance.
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“Do Bones”
Survivors, especially Solos are against the clock to get gens done. If the killer is getting through hook states then you won’t have much hope getting 5 gens done when you are hunting totems.
Camping: Everyone knows that to counter a camping killer you need to rush gens. You will not have time to look for and do totems. They typically use this to their advantage by running NOED.
Moris: Again the only counter is rushing gens. However the typical Mori user will have NOED up their sleeve as they will know you won’t have time to do totems + gens and get out the game.
There’s multiple situations where survivors can’t do totems without risk of throwing the game. Literally the only time you’ll manage to cleanse all 5 is if the killer isn’t playing very well, which gives you time to mess around, do totems etc.
The solutions I have:
1) NOED only activates when the exit gates are open. If you want NOED you’ll have to open the exit gates yourself and force EGC (Or survivors open exit gates)
2) In order for NOED to activate when generators are powered you’ll need to hook all 4 survivors. This would punish Campers.
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Lol If you're not doing bones then you can't really say you've done a good job considering it completely nullifies the perk...
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NOED punishes players for not taking the extra step to do one other objective and that is CLEANSING all dry bones totems on the map. IMO it should be STRONGER, so if it was combined with WARDEN and NOED's original effect. it just might begin to force players to DO the extra objective in the game. I usually keep it on hand and run it, because more survivors avoid doing their jobs.
- Do generators
- Cleanse dry totems
- Rescue survivors (optional)
- Run away from the killer
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Survivors need to do gens, bones and at least one or two need to be good at chases. Sometimes healing too (holding M1 and knowing how to press spacebar). Done! Win!
Killers need to micromanage so much in a match that is really stressfull just playing Killer.
1- You need to control the chase time to be optimal.
2- You need to apply pressure on gens.
3- You need to keep track of hooked survivors so you don't get DS on your face.
4- You need to try make survivors drop good pallets and then you need to brake them.
5- You need to have good map control and try to herd the survivors into a three gen scenario because after the first chase most likely one or two gens will pop.
6- You need to be good at finishing chases as fast as you can, but most of the times you'll just suck it up 'cause of the rng that spawns a T-L wall next to a jungle gym that leads to the killer shack and so on...
7- You need to deal with DS, OoO, Unbreakable, Adrenaline in all the games and probably you'll get a adrenaline + DS in two or three survivors AND DS + Unbreakable in, at least, two of them.
And there's so much more to say, I didn't even talk about how to each killer needs to manage his power to not be his downfall.
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I was reading through and wanted to add my own comment. It always bugged me seeing people say "nerf noed" because they say to nerf a perk that you can remove. You see no one saying to nerf arguably the strongest or second strongest hex perk, Devour Hope; "but you can cleanse the totem it's assigned to." Okay? You can cleanse noed as well, I honestly think people forget that noed wasn't a hex perk until Hag released and it got nerfed.
And if we're talking about noed being nerfed why don't we touch a survivor perk. DS (Decisive Strike if you aren't familiar with the abbreviation) I had a match where I was chasing someone and another survivor got unhooked. I hooked the person I was chasing and the survivor that got unhooked got healed and rushed the hook. So I downed both survivors and left the survivor who was farmed on the floor, picked up the other survivor and they escaped because of decisive. Hmm anti-tunneling perk? But I didn't tunnel you, if DS is an anti-tunneling perk, it should deactivate after the survivor gets healed, because that shows they are not being tunneled. (Small gripe but proves my point of an unfair perk on the survivor side.)
Sure, there are unfair killer perks, a good timed Bloodwarden will kill every survivor that didn't escape, a 5 stack Devour Hope will obliterate a team if they can't find the totem. Hell, look at Michael (not a perk but a personal gripe with one of the 20 amazing killers we have), one of the two killers since 2016 that hasn't been touched until Chapter 16's release (The other is Hillbilly). A Rancor makes the obsession terrified of end game, Remember Me makes you want the obsession dead as fast as possible. Surveillance forces you to keep tabs on all gens and you know which gen is being worked on (as Doc i had every gen white with that perk, it's a godsend).
Yet, all of the perks I mentioned are able to be countered, Bloodwarden - don't let them get a hook, or don't have the gate opened when no one is safe. Devour - break the totem (same goes for noed you lazy survivor that can run small game, inner strength or detective's hunch to see how many totems are left in the match) Michael is just don't give him his power, hard but doable. Rancor, force an obsession swap or stay near the gate at the end to rush out and not get downed instantly. Remember Me is just try your best to not get hit or not be chased. Surveillance is work on a gen while the killer is occupied in a chase, they may not notice the yellow aura of a survivor working on it, or work on multiple at once, splitting the attention and the killer has to choose which they think is closer.
Now let's see how to counter the survivor's perks, DS - don't pick them up, which segues into Unbreakable - pick up the... oh that's not good. Well, you can always stay near the downed survivor to stop them from... Soul Guard - don't hit the survivor for 8 full seconds after they get up. At least the final... Adrenaline - unless you're huntress, PH or Deathslinger good luck getting that survivor. That;s four of the good survivor perks and they all work together. To counter prove thyself, use Pop, counter self care use Nurse's, lots of perks are used to counter other perks. Distortion counters BBQ, Nurse's any aura reading perk; Boil Over and Breakout counter Iron Grasp; Wake Up counters Remember Me; Iron Will counters Stridor; RA (Repressed Alliance) counters PGTW (Pop Goes the Weasel); Detective's Hunch, Inner Strength, and Small Game counters NOED, Devour, Huntress Lullaby, Third Seal, Ruin, Haunted Grounds, Retribution, Thrill of the Hunt. (Weird 8 hex perks but people only complain about 1... even though they can all be broken... huh, that's interesting.)
Just wanted to put this here because it always bothers me hearing "Nerf noed" or "nerf this" "nerf that". Especially when those things can be countered while others cannot. Yes, I am a killer main, I play both sides fairly equally but I play killer more, I also have over 6,000 hours into this game so I would like to think I at least know some stuff to add to the conversation to hopefully give better insight to those that need it.
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I thnik this perk should work like devour hope, lullaby and all another hex totems, noed should spawn on match start. Its very hard to cleanse it as solo surv but easier as swf, they have to just balance the game for both sides.
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Do bones
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