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Gen Rush Doesn't Exist
...until this happens:
(if timestamp doesn't work from the link: it's from ≈ 3:03)
I know, survivors will say "...but you (spoiler alert) won the game anyway, everything's fine!", but that's simply not true: they were simply not that good in chases, I got VERY lucky in stopping the generator at 6:08, and survivors failed to split up on two different generators when all 4 of them were still alive.
Plus, the killer was the Oni, meaning insta down and high mobility, no way I would have been able to come back from this otherwise.
notice there were no toolboxes either, just prove thyself and being in comm.
I wonder if the Early Game changes coming soon™ will address situations like this one.
Comments
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An even better one is an Otzdarva video from 3 weeks ago where a gen was rushed in 17 seconds before he could even move across the map. Another example is one of Truetalents leatherface games from recently where he went against a potential SWF. He had back to back to back chases and quick downs and he still got gen rushed. 4 gens were finished in 4:45. He never strayed too far away from gens being worked on, he got 4 hooks with 1 hook on each survivor, and a total of 5 downs.
One of the biggest problems is you have people parroting the same phrase of "Just pressure gens" when there is physically no way you can actually do that. No matter what happens you'll always have to chase a survivor and then the rest of the team will just go do gens like normal. People act like you can just pop up at a gen, yell "BOO!" real quick at the survivor, and forever scare the survivor from coming back to that gen again.
Otzdarva: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CdIwSJRjFE
Truetalent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBEHouthP7M
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Gen rushing is more of a negative stigma imo, where rushing the generator causes the survivors to fail in some way. Rushing the gen isn't a good thing, because rushing anything is not a good thing.
Even when popping the first gen at 16 seconds, gen rushing can easily result in the survivors demise, but if the killer is ignoring 3 gen or otherwise not planning for end game during a gen rush, you're gonna get wiped every time.
In that video, the second gen was barely started. In five minutes, the trial should be over. Remember kids, gens are slow and steady, which is smooth. Smooth is fast. Rushing is not.
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All these videos of "gen rush" end in the killer winning, it kinda blunts your point. The first gens go fast, that's how DBD is.
The fact is, there's killers out there who win ~hundreds~ of games in a row. What other game is that possible in? Even smurfs in league are usually only at an ~80% winrate. And it's not like they are gods or something, solo Q teams break down very easily. All it takes is 1 survivor not running meta perks and you can win cheaply.
Between the nerfed maps and new, super strong characters, the game is killer favored unless it's 3 man SWF or more.
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Yeah, and then he gets a 4k after survivors do everything in their power, every perk used every method in action and they still lost.
Point being? If you complain about getting gen rushed and still manage to get a 4k, just don't open your mouth.
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Both teams were also garbage, which is also another sad point to be made about survivors. Even when they were completely terrible at looping and got hooked so damn fast it still took them no skill and no time at all to just hold a button on a gen and melt through their survivor objectives.
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Here is the thing. It really doesn't.
It seems to me that at some point (maybe around when Discordance came into the picture) survivors started to spawn together more often than not.
I can only speak for experience, but I actually stopped using Shroud Of Binding offerings anymore because I didn't need them anymore. The ability to do a gen that fast when the whole team spawns together and the killer (is out of luck) and checks the wrong gen. Why wouldn't it? It would be the same as a survivor running into the killer (by accident) and immediately going down after.
The fact is everyone has experienced a generator being finished before initiating a chase (I have too). It doesn't mean that gen speed times are broken. Because by that philosophy they would have to brutally nerf perks that slow gen times. I didn't want to deal with a Forever Freddy before because of how excessive his slow down is, so why would I agree that he should be able to slow down the game even more?
Clearly you were not being gen-rushed in the video and it was just bad luck because if had you gone there first, you would have had the advantage of not letting them finish. The game works like that in many scenarios.
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I reply to you, but it's for @Shocktober as well.
First, consider that I have whispers, and I don't spawn that far away from the generator. I'm not going straight there, but the direction I'm checking it's the correct one. Problem is, that the gen is completed in under 30 seconds (you can check when the trial starts and the gen pops). And they didn't have any toolboxes (I assumed they did later in the video because I saw one, but actually they found it in a chest later in the game).
I think it's debatable that gen speed is not broken, considering that due to the gen speed there's a bug where the repaired gen is not registered until they complete another gen as well.
Now, as for the clearly, you were not being gen-rushed, I'm telling you, they obviously tried:
look at 6:08: it's only because I fail to chase a survivor that, as a last resort, I try to go to another area of the map and I'm able to pop a generator which was more than 80% repaired. If I wasn't able to stop that gen at that moment, I wouldn't have had a 3 gen to defend, and I have to reiterate that I was very lucky they were not that good at chases, hence I was able to insta down (again: only because I was the Oni) at least one survivor every time I got into my power, and quickly pop that same generator.
So yeah, I do agree that they didn't efficiently gen rush, but this should only show you how it's obvious something is broken: even if I was clearly able to make the right call at the right time and able to down them extremely quickly, I just needed one slip to compromise the trial probably irremediably.
The take home messages should be that:
- No gen should be able to be completed that quickly
- Prove Thyself should not completely nullify the gen repair speed debuff.
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The problem is with the game.
What else are survivors supposed to do? Wonder around a bit? The only other objective besides generators is Totems if you can even call that an objective. And until people start getting hooked, they don't have another real objective.
Chests are an optional objective, but won't really provide much for the survivors if we are being honest.
So they just do gens, we all know the time for gens to get done is quite short, and the DEVs said they will not change.
- Ruin only works when they are not touching the gen now. However, the killer needs to be mobile for this to work the best. But it can be destroyed, still for some reason.
- Pop-Goes is based on how the killer is doing in the chases, and even then, sometimes you just can't make it to the gen because of the generator speed. And no repressed alliance is a thing....
- Corrupt Intervention is only helpful for the first up to 2 minutes, but from what I have seen, it's not a very effective slowdown perk. It's good if you need set up, or have a plan for a kind of 3 gen.
- Thanatophobia isn't horrible, but survivors can just heal. And it's not a true gen slowing perk.
Basically, choices for dealing with gens is pretty limited. Use it to effectively it might get nerfed. lol
Generator speed has been a problem in the game for a while. Why people are suddenly being toxic to the survivors for doing the objective when the speed has been the same for years, is beyond me. Ya'll are a little behind on this whole ordeal.
But if your gonna be mad at anyone, it's the DEVs. They nerf the good stalling perks because casuals and emblems. And do nothing about generator speed. Oh wait, my bad. They added a penalty if more than 1 survivor is on a gen, but we all know this makes a rats arse of a difference.
I won't say gen rush doesn't exist per-say, but i'll ask once again. What else are they supposed to do?
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I don't think Otz's Video is a good example, because they brought 4 toolboxes and 3 BNPs and did only two gens.
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Gen Rushing isn't common which is why I think some people believe it doesn't exist. But 4 survivors all working on separate gens and never healing will get all 5 gens done quickly without the killer able to do anything about it. However, this does require a bit of coordination and doesn't reward a lot of bloodpoints.
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Spot on.
People complaining about one gen being done early miss the point that this is only possible because the survivors spawned together. The alternative to that is survivors spawning separately, which would be much worse. They think losing one gen is bad? How about losing three gens in three separate areas of the map?
The WORST thing to see as a killer is three survivors on three different gens. If you run BBQ or Thrilling and see three different gens highlighted it’s the worst possible outcome. Imagine survivors with BNPs all using them on different gens in the first minute of the match. That would be true horror, not losing one measly gen.
Survivors grouping up is always advantageous for the killer. You can only be in one place and if all the survivors are there too, that’s great for you. It’s why stuff like flashlights and bodyblocks don’t bother me. Yes, please, keep swarming me! More fun for me than a team that splits up.
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So by tht logic if you're getting hard tunneled but you survive for whatever reason (killer is bad, you have a key, teammates die for you) then it's ok to do nothing about tunneling ?
I just wonder if you see the issues with such mindset considering there are many issues with DBD that can be ignored if you use these arguments like "he 4k anyway" "he survived anyway".
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Hundreds of game...yeah...sure....
Meanwhile in reality SWF clean up game and always have.
4K mean nothing. Killers have repeatedly made it clear it not about getting kills it's about the game being fun and both sides having a sense of agency as well as feeling like both sides are putting in equal effort for the same result. A killer has to git gud because one chase mistakes mean 3 m1ing survivors will pop 3 gens before one hook is out. If the MM is actually fixed killers would be getting slapped game after game, but as of things are right now killers who had to GIT GUD from the older days and from being bullied by SWF mostly clean up with newer boosted survivors.
DBD is so busted that you can't count one win to another. Because the games balance is all over the place. The point being if this group did not make marginal chase mistakes or simply get cocky in most of these videos because they got gens done so early the killer would of been floored.
Not really. Most meta perks are the very reason these group lose because all the killers that actually do win consistently like you claim are typically the most exposed to these perks and know all the counters-especially since most of them faced these meta perks when killers were weaker and the perks were stronger-
Pfft. Survivors have many great perks that offer something useful, they don't have to rely on meta-perks to win and most of them don't. At best one meta-perk is all you need and that's typically dead hard or sprint but those are so good you can't not use them if you plan to be in a chase-which most survivors do-
The maps weren't nerfed. Theywere balanced. Big difference. The god loops were removed because it turned big building-large parts of the map- into "do not chase or you will lose" zones unless you were a specific killer with a 4D plan or extremely high tier player like otz. The game was made better with these map changes. With exception or some who still need tweaking.
The killers are meant to be strong. Their powers literally are one of the founding points of what makes each game different and all of their powers are counterable. Except maybe..freddy...but everyone agrees he needs a new retweaking.
No. The game is less survivor favored but it's still survivor favored. It's just not like the old days of infinite, god loops and the killer being 50% slower at actions. Although it will definitely start to sway to the point of being killer favored if the SWF problem isn't answered as the devs will have no choice but to continue to buff killers against them.
Since both sides get frustrated if they don't feel they have agency if they play high skill/top level plays against each other and keeping either from reaching those high plays will just make people lobby dodge certain killers/suspected swf groups.
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Don't give me BS like "so by that logic."
Don't twist my words.
I said what I said, and that's that.
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You can certainly open your mouth about gen rushing even while getting a 4k. I've had plenty of games where the survivors were on track to win, but a few mistakes cost them the whole match. Usually when that happens it's because one of the weak links on the team made a huge blunder, which allowed the killer to snowball.
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Killers can't actually snowball in the endgame because of a weak link, it's only when the team decides to go with the gorilla strategy (Stack second chance perks, refuse to just leave, intentionally take hits over and over to try to secure a 4-out) that killers turn losses into 3-4k's.
People should watch Showstopper's weekend showdown streams sometimes. Even with DS banned, survivors limited to two perks, and killer getting to choose a perk to ban, the SWF groups often make a complete mockery of every killer in the showdown. Because they just play to win the match, which is EXTREMELY easy for an organized group to do if they choose to.
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Yeah its just another "Uhh ... gens go way too fast, but i won, but this doesnt matter"-Thread. Nothing changed.
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Just saying that for someone who seems to support healthy game length for survivors you're quite able to dismiss issues of the other side rather easily.
I just wanted to know if your views on healthy game length apply to both sides or just one. It seems to be the latter.
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Killers can definitely snowball off weak links. It happens all the time. I've done it myself as well.
With that said, it mostly happens when randoms are involved.
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The timestamp between when the match starts and when the gen pops is between 2:34 - 3:07, which means that at least 3 players were on the generator. You expect that if (again) survivors spawn together and not separate, more than likely you will lose that first gen. Unless you get lucky or make the right call when it comes to going to the right area.
As far as the bug when that happened... I didn't say that wasn't broken. It's happened to me, but there is no arguing they need to fix that.
Here is where I have a problem with these type of threads. Obviously I am not saying that the whole "I lost a gen in the beginning of the match" sucks. As I mentioned, I play killer as well and it has happened to me one or two times, definitely not something that is a constant trend. I think it's important to understand that because showing one bad scenario to excuse whether something is balanced or not, is not very supporting that something needs to be changed. I can definitely say (for me) I've had 99.8% of my matches where this hasn't happened.
The game is heavily RNG-reliant, and this goes for both survivors and killers where one bad move can cost you. So, imagine if for example at 2:41 you had decided to instead make a complete right, and check on that pathing (because honestly I would have assumed their spawn location was opposite of me) you probably would have gotten there within enough time to interrupt their repair. OR Imagine how that David felt at 3:30 when he didn't have anywhere to physically go and avoid your hit, while you use your perk on an almost finished gen. You both could have brought perks or made a different choice to either help/prevent each situation.
Honestly, if I was going up against an Oni (My least favorite killer because I believe his power is broken-just my personal opinion) I'd want to do gens as fast as possible. Considering how many of my Oni encounters have consisted of Get power, hook, go back to the hook, slug, slug, hook, hook.
Prove Thyself is no more effective, than the opposing side's side effects that can regress/stop and completely de-value any repair speed boost. You have tools to help you with slowing down gen speeds, so if what you are looking for is a base slow gen speed, then they would have to completely re-work every perk that slows down gens, because it would then not be fair that you get to get more "free time" at base, while you can also bring a strong build to deny survivors of other potential outcomes. This, if in fact gen speeds are broken. Which again, if we are judging by how many times this happens it's not. That's my opinion after almost 4,000 hours of playing DBD.
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Survivors have a likelihood of spawning one of three ways iirc.
All 4 seperate. All 4 together. Or in pairs.
Usually, you're more likely to spawn with teammates cuz of this.
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I seem to remember when I would spawn by myself, and ever since Legion came out (when Discordance came into the game)... I noticed the change.
All my friends and I joke about "Who brought Shroud this time" because ever since most of my matches have consisted of spawning players together. It's to the point where Shroud should just be changed to something else because it's useless.
I do not know how it is determined by the game, but what I do know is that because of how many times I have spawned next to at least 2 other survivors (sometimes right up on each other) I just assumed there were maybe only two ways in which you spawned into a match.
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gen rush... having the first gen popped quickly is not gen rush. gen rush is when the gates are powered within 5 minutes.
He even used Whispers and messed up because he checked the critical gen latest. So it is pretty easy to get the first gen done with a team spawning on it. I agree that 3+ survivors should never spawn together without using the offering, but this is a different topic.
Besides that:
- "they gen rushed so quickly I did not even get a notification" ehm... lol. This is a known bug and has nothing to do with how fast the gen pops
- "came back from an impossible game" lol again? Because the first gen popped quickly? I mean, this is a common thing?! It was even a good start into the game because he got a double down right after that and then had 3 people in chase for some time. The team was lucky they had one sticking on the gens during that time rather than having the ultra altruistic team rushing in for the protection hits
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