Why does everyone complain about second chance perks?

I understand gen rush problem or lets say if the killer tunnel when theres 0 or 2 gens left with all 4 survivors still alive it maybe understandable for me. But tunneling when theres 4-5 gens left, Sometimes even Hex: Ruin still exist in the match, There is no excuse for this.

my main issue is that they punish the killer for playing around them. Someone who sucks at looping but has DS, well, if I target you because you're in my line of sight a little too early, not to mention if you're one of two of the same Nancy skin in the lobby, the only way for me to not waste my time is to figure out youre the Nancy I hooked and let you go, which loses me time, or ear your ds, which loses me time, or slug you and wait, allowing you to use UB or get healed, literally any counter to the perk, when its active, punishes the killer. And it shouldnt be that way. BT isn't bad, I don't gk for the unhooked surv right away. But if you get saved, I hook another surv, and find you again? Sorry, but I wasnt tunneling, I don't have a ton of momentum or pressure, you shouldn't be given a second chance. BT is just "hwy you can't get downed off the hook" and half of the time, when I see it, im running STBFL and I can just say "hey free stax thx" and move on. Unbreakable, for that endgame slug off, yeah, its not too annoying, i think its about necessary. But DS just makes me angry, and Dead Hard needs to be looked at for sure, because at the end of the day, it really is an "oh crap" button press to undo a mistake you made, and thats not fair. If im chasing you for a minute, and finally get you in a position to go down, you shouldn't be able to use DH. There should be some form of mitigation for it, like a timegate. If you're chased for X amount of seconds, it cannot be used, kinda deal, or give it a token use and make it usable anytime. That way at least once you do it once or twice, youre stuck, and allows counter play. "Oh ive been chasing you for too long, you wasted one of your DH, ill see you later" and move to another target. Idk. Just me tho.

i believe bt and ds are fine. its a counter against tunnelers, campers, proxy or whatever you wanna call it it gives the survivor a chance to get away and not die within the first few mins of a match. its true that not everyone saves properly but if they know how to use and are running bt theyre gonna wait for a terror radius or till the killers far gone typically. and you dont have to necessarily lose the chase intentionally.. yea its on a timer but if it was like old ds then that would be a whole other argument. tbh it seems like you dont like bt as randoms who save you just screw you over and ds as the timer runs out just before u get knocked finally but its just whats gonna happen

There are many good survie perks, nobody runs them because they arent as good as exhaustion series, DS, and BT which have nearly no activation condition

It's the combination that is very strong. Especially during the end game. Every time when I still had my DS and got saved with BT I got out. Even with the exit on the other side of the map.

You want to slug at one gen left. One Unbreakable counters it completely, as well as Adrenaline. It only takes a Survivor who goes for the last gen and completes it in that time. All for nothing. I did this once and I coudn't even blame the Nurse for DCing.

Sprint Burst: Be outpositioned on a gen in a dead zone? No problem! Sprint away!

DH: Press E to get dedicated. Got greedy on a loop? Made a mistake? Press E to live.

Adrenaline: Why should I heal? Get the last gen already!

DS: 60s invincibility. Especially if you are next to a locker. Literally the "Get out of the prison" card during the EGC.

BT: Unhooked in front of the Killer? No problem! I don't get punished for it. I don't care if he get's tunneled. He has DS anyways.

Unbreakable: Killer wants a 4k? Killer sluggs for pressure? Not with me!

I play both sides and I can understand why some Killers don't like these perks as well as survivors who use them.

It always depends on HOW you use these perks. I for myself use DS because I hate to get tunneled (or even worse: tunnel-moried). Not to abuse it. If I use BT, I use it to get you out of the Basement vs a camping Killer, not to farm you off the hook without punishment.

Actually, I really like this idea for a killer perk.

The killer kicks up to 1/2/3 generators in a match, and if the survivors complete it within 300 seconds after being kicked it explodes at 99% and regress to 50%.

Don't like it? Just don't gen rush -- easy.

Second chance perks themselves aren't annoying. What's annoying is when a survivor uses every meta perks under the sun then complains about the killers perks/playstyle.

As long as a survivor thinks it's normal to complain about camping and tunneling, I will think it's normal to complain about genrushing, near infinite loops, and second chance perks.

And to anyone who thinks camping isn't a legitimate playstyle. The perks I run are ruin, serveillance, and discordance together. This means I can prioritize punishing altruistic behavior while still making sure gens don't progress. Yet for some reason survivors think this is a stupid playstyle to use (even though it works very well most of the time) why exactly would I patrol gens or go to the other side of the map when I don't need to do that. Why would I go too far away when I know where most of the survivors are? If you're a survivor and complain about something like this do yourself a favor and uninstall. The killer has no obligation to go to the other side of the map and count to 60 like they're playing hide and seek. I haven't depipped a single time with this setup, so why exactly would I change to a playstyle that gives me less bp and ranked progression? Because it's not fun for you? Well sfw, infinite/near infinite loops, gen rushing, DS, borrowed time are all not fun for me. So I'll change my playstyle up when survivors stop doing all these things

Because they suck. Big time.

Just gonna leave this here

Basically the issue I brought up appears in the following perks:

DS: "Oh you went through the trouble of downing them? ######### you do it again, and also your stunned for 5 seconds."

DH: Its a reactive perk that gets used to correct a mistake. In fairness the perk CAN be used proactively and when it is the perk doesn't feel so bad. That is to say, using DH to make a play is fine, but using DH to correct a misplay feels awful as the Killer.

Adrenaline: Retroactively deletes your chase progress when used in a chase. Outside of a chase is fine.

Unbreakable: In the event of a 4 man slug this perk denies an anticipated insta-win. Without at least 3 slugged or hooked Survivors this isn't an issue and the perk is fine (psychologically speaking)

Deliverance: See above but with hooks

4%ing: same

Mettle of man: Simple "Oh you got a hit? Na just kidding". Offset by the difficulty to activate making it seem impressive rather than annoying, but still worth mentioning.

Soul guard/borrowed time: Same as MoM but without the feeling of being impressive making up for it

Sprint Burst: "Oh you got the jump on me? No you didn't". Used outside of the context of an ambush is fine.

The other exhaustion perks (head on, lithe, balanced landing) do not carry the same feeling of anticipation of reward prior to their activation, lithe in particular due to activating on a vault.

None of these "issues" are balance issues, although there are unrelated balance issues with a subset of these perks, the negative psychological effects is are not an example of a balance issue.

In the case of the Enduring effects, they can be solved with a simple nerf that causes Enduring to make the Survivor glow like they do now when struck with enduring but for the whole duration. That way the anticipated reward is not "downing the Survivor" but rather "breaking the Survivors shield".

In the case of borrowed time no further changes are needed, the perk is strong enough for a minor nerf like this to be fine. Mettle of man and soul guard may need a compensation buff. In the case of mettle of man that should be straightforward as the perk needs a buff anyways.

Solving the issue with the other perks is more complicated. Other than DS the perks moreso have the potential to be frustrating depending on when and how it's used rather than being an inherently frustrating perk. So nerfing it to be less frustrating isn't plausible without a full rework, which can only be fully justified in the case of DS.

Sprint burst can be mitigated by having it activate after sprinting continuously for 1 second instead of instantly. However similar changes to deliverance, Unbreakable ect wouldn't work.

Gen-rushing is usually a side effect of the killer not applying any pressure. This perk is a terrible idea. You basically condemn the survivors to death for doing basically nothing. 5 whole minutes? You literally can't lose in that time frame. Plus it's BHVR they'd never make a new good perk.

Killers do have perks that rewards injuries and downs: Knockout, Infectious, Sloppy, Thantaphobia, etc.

by themselves i have no issue but the problem arises when 4 survivors with 4 second chance perks. that makes it 16 "second" chances

id like to hear your idea of how ds should work to where its not making someone give up chase but rather to run away. one way i could think of it is theres a timer still but if you end up in chase again before it runs out the timer pauses and you're able to use it if you get knocked, (you loose it once picked up by another survivor from dying state) otherwise if you loose the killer it continues its timer and by then you're probably gonna be long gone and or healed