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THIS is the problem with gen speeds and early game.

24

Comments

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321

    1 survivor is 25% in a trial so everything below 75% is still within the average of 2 kills per trial.

  • Sluzzy
    Sluzzy Member Posts: 3,130

    Close to 75% is 3 kills. Do the devs want to advertise a game where their only hope is the hatch?

  • wildcardyo
    wildcardyo Member Posts: 125

    The game is balanced to give killers a slim chance of winning. Some of the great players bypass this. They want to keep survivors - the 80% happy because that is what brings in the money. Money and greed has brought us this imbalanced game state that is a joke.

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,290

    maybe add another gen for them to do power the gates i mean there 4 survivors only have to do 5 gens but if they had to do 6 gen still may not change anything.

  • Sluzzy
    Sluzzy Member Posts: 3,130

    Ruin was changed, maps are considerably smaller, strong loops eradicated, and lots of deadzones added to the maps. This might be enough to push the killrates even higher. If I remember correctly, Freddy had a higher killrate than Billy so why wasn't Freddy nerfed? He is bringing home the bacon. AFKs, suicides, and disconnects are the most important stat. I bet it is through the roof with Freddy. I almost never saw anyone DC against Billy.

  • ClickyClicky
    ClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    Im pretty sure they said they dont count disconnects in their stats.

    Not sure about afk survivors but thats balanced out by all the deranking afk wraiths or killers that give hatch or killers that farm and let everyone go

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321

    We can only guess at this point as many things have been changed on both sides affecting the pace of trials (i.e. Ruin) AND chases (i.e. deadzones). It's a pity the devs are not going to post more recent stats.

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321

    I didn't mean the disconnecters themselves but the 4ks that were the result of people disconnecting during a match. I remember there was a time where people would dc at 5 gens because they wanted to derank leaving me with 2 other randoms with 5 gens so it was pretty much a free win for the killer anyways.

  • Raven014
    Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    So killers are not allowed to make one mistake... or rather, they shouldn't be able to come back from one mistake? And survivors are allowed to make many, many mistakes? That is... that is just not fair. There should be a chance for recovery if you play strategically. Survivors should, and killers should. But survivors at the moment are just given way too many second chances.

    New billy won't be able to make the same kind of comeback billy now is capable of.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,516
    edited July 2020

    He had 1 chase where the survivor got to 1 pallet and then the second hit was baited so they didn't get to it. How is that garbage?

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,290

    thinking most of the AFKs, suicides, and disconnects are the most from playing doctor.

  • Todgeweiht
    Todgeweiht Member Posts: 3,666

    They said they are adding an early game mechanic soon similar to EGC, so that should make thing more bearable I guess.

  • Terra92
    Terra92 Member Posts: 583

    The game tends to halt at two gens usually. Once the killer gets the ball rolling, at least three people are on first hook, usually at least one is on death hook, and probably in a chase. Once one person dies(usually at two gens left, sometimes three, sometimes one), the game basically halts. You often end up with a constant rotation of one person being on hook, the other saving them, and a third being chased.

    Usually. I find most of my matches end up that way, even if there's a rushed feeling. Often times it's rushed because everyone did three generators that were close together, leaving the last four pretty close together.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,516

    Killers shouldn't lose 3 gens in the first chase, yes the game does slow down a bit, but not nearly enough against organized teams at high ranks. Even so, it would be better for both sides if they evened it out a bit more and slowed the game down a bit in the early game, but sped it up in the later part of the game.

  • Onyx_Blue
    Onyx_Blue Member Posts: 1,060

    @Reinami don't go listing the hypothetical assumptions of how the game would have gone. That does nothing.

    You never hard commit to the first survivor you see when they just run from one side of the map to the other. They are wasting their own time doing that, and ultimately yours if you follow them all that way. Who cares if they spend 16 seconds healing, you have to apply pressure to multiple survivors at the start of the match.

    Ignoring the fact he had Surge, so logic would dictate he aim to keep chases near active gens so he can have passive regression when he gets a down nearby. Then he can carry them to an area not near an active gen so they have to waste their time going somewhere unimportant. (See, it's easy to describe a hypothetical situation)

    Face it, you cannot say a killer played the match well when they have minimal pressure and made mistakes.

    This game is all about time management, so, as killer, you need to know where your focus is most needed at what times. If you chase a good looper and you aim for strong pallet breaks and a hit then leave them alone. Same applies for W-key gamers; if they are dragging you around and all you'te doing is track them from 20m+ then surely you just leave them to go find someone else and come back to them when they're out positioned or trapped in an area they cannot just run from.

  • teamdehn
    teamdehn Member Posts: 222

    Minimal pressure in 1 minute 50 seconds? Again a killer would need to put up 7 hooks in that amount of time to keep up. More than half your objective should not be complete especially when all you did was hold m1 or w.

  • DBD_Noobinoob
    DBD_Noobinoob Member Posts: 89

    Thank you for writing this down. This is a crystal clear depiction of a very obvious issue. People who accuse him of doing a mistake - which is questionable btw - close their eyes to the fact that one single individual mistake doesn't change a thing about the general issue. It's like a person who fights for something lines up 100 arguments, of which 99 are totally reasonable and only 1 is maybe a little flawed... and people will go crazy over that one argument and take it as a reason why that person can't be right in what they're saying.

  • Onyx_Blue
    Onyx_Blue Member Posts: 1,060

    @teamdehn 1min 50secs of doing nothing of impact to 4 survivors? Yeah, a killer should be doing better than that. Jeez, are players at this game so bad and warped by the statements of egotistical streamers whom cannot admit when they played badly, that they try and blame gen speed for their own lack of skill at pressuring? Bloody hell...

  • teamdehn
    teamdehn Member Posts: 222

    Lol there is nothing to argue about here the dev's have acknowledged it's a problem and are adding a slow down.

  • Onyx_Blue
    Onyx_Blue Member Posts: 1,060

    @teamdehn you wonder why these posts are still so common then?

    I honestly just see that potential change as the Devs feeling the peer pressure.

  • DaKnight
    DaKnight Member Posts: 720

    That's silly. He played it relatively well the first chase. Even if you shave 15-20 seconds off it, he still loses all 3 gens because they would get finished before he can travel to them anyways.

    "Just go find another survivor" is a bad argument. It's probably another 20-30 seconds to maybe find someone else. The dwight had a medkit, and could probably heal himself up within ~10 seconds depending on what kind it is.

    And who is to say the other survivors he potentially found would not do the exact same thing. At higher ranks the new chase could start off with the survivor sprint bursting off the gen, or the gen he visits has someone playing immersed and he loses 2+ gens without even getting a down. Committing was the right call on a low mobility killer like PH.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,786

    This game is average representation of what games should be like. Killer loses early game but gets few hooks, killer keeps pressure, if he triumphs, he kills one person, than cleans up the game unless he makes a mistake. Tru3 made an error and didn't manage to kill anyone early. He got a kill at like 11 minutes and that is just too late for killer. Its kinda weird how your average solo queue game does not have 3 generator pop on first chase, you would think it would be more common but it usually isn't the case as there is lack of coordinate and bunch of survivors are that pretty bad at looping so there is that.

  • Onyx_Blue
    Onyx_Blue Member Posts: 1,060

    @DaKnight you do realise that the common survivor spawn is 3 survivors together and 1 by themself? So to say it would take as long as you said to find someone else is laughable. And then on top of that, if they all held W then they would overlap an area and bring the killer towards an area occupied by teammates.

    You seriously cannot think being borderline afk by hard focusing 1 survivor across the map is acceptable play by a killer.

    If you do not pressure multiple survivors in 1min50sec then how in the hell can you be surprised when 3 gens pop. That is terrible, absolutely terrible killer gameplay

  • handfulofrain
    handfulofrain Member Posts: 317

    You forgot Trapper lol. When you play Trapper you expect to have 2-3 gens remaining by the time you finish your set up.

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,614

    Seemingly you lack the experience to argue about this kind of thing the optimal play was build pressure through getting a hook to try and pull survivors away from gens but having them spawn scattered on 4 different gens is really strong for the survivors and if they stick to those early gens the game can be lost then and there especially with the weaker killers in the game they might not have had any comeback at all. Also kinda hard to get the survivors who won't make any distance with a 32 meter terror radius.

  • Veen
    Veen Member Posts: 706

    I'll never understand why people take youtubers as the best killers/survivors around and want to balance the game around THEIR experience.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,516
    edited July 2020

    Probably because those youtubers have thousands of hours played and are easily the most experienced players in this game?


    Who has more evidence to backup their situation? The guy with 100 hours, or the one with 5000 hours?

  • Zeus
    Zeus Member Posts: 2,112

    Early game definitely needs some help. If all survivors start separately with a gen in front of them, it's 3 gens down in one chase. Corrupt would have been golden there.

  • Veen
    Veen Member Posts: 706

    Does the "average" player plays dbd as a job and have around 5000 hours though?

    Get a clue.

  • VonCrow
    VonCrow Member Posts: 389

    But isn't that a problem? I mean, if you need a DLC perk to be able to compete in most games...that is not a good design I would say.

    I have the Plague, but I don't have corrupt in every single killer yet, so for example imagine I want to play Trapper but I don't have corrupt on him...I literally can't play trapper.

    Yeah of course there are some perks that help killer on gens but that doesn't mean that gen speed is not a problem, bc actually it is. Yeah you can still 4k but that only means you played really well. Killer sided right now is unable to make a single mistake because you choose the wrong chase and the game is gone. Survivor side they have plenty of 2nd chance perks so mistakes are welcome.

  • Crap_Martini
    Crap_Martini Member Posts: 50

    A killer can't tunnel four survivors at once, only one.

    Whilst tunneling or camping one survivor 3 gens get completed, 3/5 or the objective where as one tunneled/camped survivor isn't even actually 1/4 of the killers objective! They are not comparable.

    Tunneling and Camping realistically favours the survivors. Yeah sucks for one but ensures the killer is in one area of the map so the rest can gen rush in safety and there is no guarantee that you will kill the survivor they have one hook.

  • CrusaderNella
    CrusaderNella Member Posts: 331

    This is also a bit of a problem for setup killers. I love trap based killers like Trapper and Hag and the first few seconds i need to spend setting up traps at loops/choke points , pallets etc.


    I can only do this for like 10 seconds and even then as trapper, if RNG screws with me and spawns no traps near me, i cant get much done.


    I also haven't bought Plague so i don't yet have corrupt intervention so my best alternative is Ruin. They need like a early game thing were all the gens are blocked for like 30 seconds.

  • hahmraro
    hahmraro Member Posts: 96

    If you are older than 16 and still has such immaturity I pity you.

  • RoMainPuppy
    RoMainPuppy Member Posts: 507

    So again, you want survivors to hold M1 for longer. That's not going to solve the problem.

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321

    How is it immature to not be interested in a streamer? It's their opinion.

  • RizeAki
    RizeAki Member Posts: 1,209

    All I see is him not even trying to stop those gens from being popped had nothing to do with gen speeds and all to committing too long to the chase, the map, and not protecting the gens

  • BaldursGate2
    BaldursGate2 Member Posts: 994

    80% of the killers are bad at gen pressure, even more on the big maps and indoor, one of the four remaining killers is completly garbage (billy). So you have basically 3 killers that can pressure gens, where one needs a tremendously amount of practice to be good with (nurse), leaving two (spirit and freddy) you can play if you want a high success rate.

    I mean, this guy played the game how long? 5k hours+? How should a casual player have a chance with those killers? Nice job.

  • rogueplayer00
    rogueplayer00 Member Posts: 110

    Yeah. One mistake. How many mistakes can survivors make and have no real consequences for?

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,290

    i geuss you missed the part where i said still may not change anything,but something need to be done.

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,290
  • seki23
    seki23 Member Posts: 833

    this is hilarious to me the killer CANT MAKE NOT EVEN ONE MISTAKE, but survivors damn those survivors can mess up the entire game and still win is kind of stupid dont you think? this needs to be adressed

  • Terra92
    Terra92 Member Posts: 583

    These arguments of high rank group play is so niche though. Like out of the hundreds of players in red ranks, so few of them are groups. I get it, it sucks, but it's like me complaining about getting mori'd almost every game for a couple days. I'm just unlucky with the matchmaking. It's anecdotal at best.

    The argument that the potential of a group doing this is real, but the reality of it is that it's not common, not fun to play this kind of style for more than a passing moment, as a gag or just to feel "pro." It's just not fun in general, which is why the vast majority of players don't use these playstyles, and if they play as a four person group, it's usually just to mess around, play meme builds, etc.

    This forum seems to give off the impression that all survivors, duos, trios, four person groups, are all trying to sweat the P3 blood off their clothes as they abuse every mechanic in the game to beat them. When the reality is that the player you couldn't catch that one game probably got the crap beat out of them the last game, and might have that same experience the next. It's not a consistent experience for players. Streamer highlights and YouTube videos only show the best three games they had but in reality they probably played several before, several in between, and several after, all which didn't make the cut.

  • DaddyPyramidHead
    DaddyPyramidHead Member Posts: 33
    edited July 2020
  • Raven014
    Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    That is the definition of Pay to Win. Or Grind to win, if one wants to really categorize it.

  • Accullla
    Accullla Member Posts: 984

    Yeah.. Never chase the dude who plays for distance at the start of a match. Takes too long.

  • Opex
    Opex Member Posts: 263

    Billy is gonna be dead after his Nerf yes. But the Nurse is not dead. She is no fun to play anymore and is really buggy since her nerf. But she is still the strongest killer in the game.

  • Xbob42
    Xbob42 Member Posts: 1,117
    edited July 2020

    I mean if mistakes should lose you the game, getting hooked once should be death. Don't like it, don't get hooked.

    But since it's one team (killer) vs. another team (survivors) then the entire survivor team should instantly lose if anyone is hooked.

    See how unbelievably unreasonable and ridiculous this sounds?

    This dude has thousands of hours in the game and he's being critiqued for "wasting" a few seconds. How the [BAD WORD] is anyone that isn't a goddamn basement-dwelling neckbeard supposed to stand a chance if we need to be on this insane level to pressure gens in a few minutes? Not only that, but it takes time to travel to a gen, and you better hope you're going in the direction of a correct gen.

    And that's all assuming the survivors are both predictable and easy to deal with.

    There's an insane amount of pressure to do everything absolutely perfectly while the survivors basically sit still and M1 in place while hoping their friend can keep your attention for 15 more seconds. And for what? If you never commit to a chase, you're not getting kills. Yes, there's strategy and there's a time and place for when you do what, but expecting absolutely pitch-perfect gameplay in the first 2 minutes of a match or the other team auto-completes over half of their victory condition is patently absurd.