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Pyramid Head and Deathslinger, let this trend stop please
What have they all in common? They give little to no reaction time by faking their ability. Deathslinger can simply fake his shot as often as he wants, Pyramid head leaves you to no joice aswell once he is using his ability. You either drop the pallet and get hit or you dont and get hit anyway. Killers like Huntress might work similar but you have counterplay and you know when she is about to attack.
I am really tired of those concepts devs come up recently.. apparently they dont understand their own game. Its no "skill" when you can sole counter defense of survivors by pressing a button. Its extremly frustrating to guess if and when the attack is coming. And to say the least, it is just a guess, nothing more and nothing less.
Same with Spirit. Versing this killer is a guessing game aswell, which makes her frustrating to verse.
I know this video got posted already, but this topic is still very relevant and he discribes it in a very understandable way.
Comments
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Deathslinger's counterplay: break line of sight, and put objects between you 2.
Pyramid head's counterplay: pre-drop pallets and keep running, or go for stuns. Pretty hard actually.
Spirit's counterplay: none.
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This will be a short answers: They can fake it, as you can fake your direction or use your Dead hard (if available).
This is a game that you need to know your enemy and use your enviroment. For Deathslinger, preventive pallets help. For Pyramidhead, just don't go for closed pallet loops or windows directly. Think that he can't turn while he's using his power, thing that was fixed time ago.
I don't really get hit often by Pyramidhead (rank 3 survivor) since he's pretty predictable to be honest.
Forgot about the Spirit. I actually always get screwed up with the Spirit but today i readed from a survivor with 2k hours that you just need to outplay him by being a bit smart and play with your scratch marks, double back, pre-dropping pallets and stuff like that. Im not good to play versus her, but seems like its possible to play against her with no problems.
Have a nice day!
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You either get short gen times and fast chases, or you nerf the chase potential and increase gen times. Killers NEED anti loop tools since every gen slowdown perk got gutted and don't synergize. So pick your poison, either fix gen times, or deal with short chases, because if both happen, killer won't have a chance.
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Tbh if your getting hit by Pyramid heads attacks at loops, either you are looping poorly, got greedy, or Pyramid head outplayed you. He's only really good in the right persons hands otherwise he's pretty challenging to play and can easily be destroyed by good survivors.
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So as others gave great counters to Deathslinger and Pyramid head I'll say a few to help against Spirit.
Be more scared against Spirit matches, such as don't stick on gens when you hear the heartbeat and avoid chases as much as possible.
Keep line of sight on her, you need to know when she's began phasing so you can start trying to outplay her.
Pay attention to her hair and animations when a Spirit is trying to trick you, there are noticeable signs when she's left her body if you pay close enough attention, any one who doesn't believe me needs to get on KYF and I'll 100% tell you everytime you phase. It happens pretty much right as she leaves her husk, so act fast.
Stick near pallets and windows as much as possible, and like I said watch for when she's phasing, then be unpredictable. Even if you're making noise, you can slow vault a pallet or window as soon as she's lost sight.
This is how I and the good survivors I've versed can keep a Spirit busy.
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Oh this guy, really? I thought we got over this BS
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Counterpoint, killers are sick of survivors being able to know EXACTLY how many times they can loops each pallet and turning chases into a mathematical nightmare of pallet drop + loop - downs = gens done
There is still a chase, looping, mind games to the killers you mentioned but they are different than it would be for trapper.
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Oh my god this topic has been milked dry.
We get it, you don't like some killers because you can't loop them the traditional way. They have more control and you don't like that.
Spirit is the only one that might be a bit fundamentally broken, but she don't need no nerfs or adjustments.
Deathslinger and PH are fine, and some people find them fun and some unfun. They are NOT broken on a fundamental level. Just because you or somebody doesn't like them doesn't justify nerfs or adjustments. I absolutely hate Michael and Pig, but you don't see me asking for them to be adjusted.
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There has not been any "counters" to Deathslinger and Pyramid head given so far beside the drop pallet right away and LOS break (quickscope still counters this), which can only be called a bad joke.
Your spirit counters are also no real counters because they are only variations on how you wanna pull off your 50/50. Actually its not even a 50/50 when she is running stridor.
That does not have to be the case at all. Look at hillbilly or even Huntress. Both are fair, with a lot of room to play for both side without beeing unfair. The better player wins. Comapre it with Deathslinger... You can be the best survivor in the world with inhuman reaction, against a potent slinger you will just get hit every single time. You are not dodging Deathslinger, he is missing. And thats just unfair in my book.
He gets destroyed by Genrush. Its not about winning, its about the chase, and versus PH, chase is one-dimensional as hell. I am not saying he is OP, its just extremly boring and frustrating at times to play against. Thats why i say they should stop releasing those killers.
Make it fun for one side on the cost of the other side is never a good idea. I am not saying that survivors should have all the fun. Make killers that are strong but fair in chases, thats all i ask for. It should be super obvious that Slinger or PH is not fair in a chase. Not even mentioning Nurse and Spirit.
This topic is for not dried at all, its very relevant, because they still have not fixed and of those killers that gives all the power to one side. This is NOT a ballance discussion by the way.
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Both of them have very similar counters, break LOS. Even if PH can attack through stuff, he has to know where to aim. Break LOS and run to the next loop. For DS, just keep literally anything between you. His power can't kill you if he can't get into M1 range(I'm fairly certain DW resets on each spear)
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This straw man argument is tiredome..think for yourselves and maybe play the characters before following the band wagon..seriously
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imo there should be some sort of penality when a Deathslinger drops his aim without taking the shot.
its way, WAY too easy to just aim at a vault / pallet, forcing the survivor to turn away from it and then getting taken down with the normal M1 attack.
what if it was just like old Hillbillies chainsaw where there was a short time periode where he couldnt use it / attack normally right after a chainsaw sprint?
so any time you drop your aim there is a short time periode where you maybe only walk at 100%mms and cant attack. a short animation of him putting down his weapon could come with that aswell - if it really was a short thing i wouldnt at all mind it.
same for Pyramid Head. he puts his knife in the ground and its basically a gg at that point, as whatever you do you are gonna get hit (unless he really screws up).
a short animation where he needs to take the knife out of the ground to allow for some distance to be made, just so he cant force you away from something and then catching you out while you are running to the next structure continuously would be the easiest fix to that imo.
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Personally i love chases against the 2 of them. They require different tactics then say trapper which is 3 loops and drop. Then keep looping pallet or move depending on if he breaks or not.
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So according to you, anyone, even a complete beginner should be able to pick up PH or DS and win every game, with absolutely no challenge, because they're OP and survivors stand no chance. Gtfo.
DS is so slow that it's pretty easy to loop him.
PH is super easy as well after the hotfix.
Nurse however, still nasty.
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as he said versing spirit is a guessing game
you can’t play with your scratch marks when she got stridor I have 3k hours and I can tell you I versed really good killers playing Spirit the whole game based on her mistakes and not on survivors mistakes
countering a killer with a perk which can counter this perk with stridor is stupid enough based on the fact that she gives no information when she’s phasing
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Why does everyone always say such and such killer has no skill.
PH, no skill, Spirit no skill, Slinger no skill, Freddy no skill.
What is everyone supposed to just play clown and get curbstombed?
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It's hard to take Scott's argument seriously when he literally calls other people's arguments against why killers are considered boring "childish". It shows he isn't really open for discussion.
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Yes and the best tactics are to pump the gens as fast as possible. Is this fun for anyone? But thats the trend with recent killers. Cut chases short, give killers full control (or at least almost full control) of a chase and thats just not good for the game overall.
Where did i say any of this? A complete beginner will not be a top player obviously and therefore wont get those easy kills like an experienced Deathslinger. I did not even say he is op in the sense that you can not beat a good Slinger (he is not OP thats my opinion). This is not about ballance at all, its about chase mechanic. Genrush because he is slow and can only target one guy after another vs super fast chase with little to no counterplay. A survivor relies on how good the killer plays and has little inpact on anything else.
And if you think you can loop a Deathslinger i can only laugh about it sorry. You obviously never played against a good one. But if you think you can, please show us a video to backup that argument. I for myself can not, unless the Slinger is missing shots, and thats all you can hope for.
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Scott is versing are the same killers i and many here verse all the time (Rank 1), so its not complaining about a subject that is not relevant for anyone but Scott and a handful of others.
Its not about having a higher chance of winning a 1v1, you dont get the point at all.
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I think he is very open for discussion and he is very open minded aswell, since he understands both roles. I for my part can agree with almost all of what he said so far. Killer and Survivor related.
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I said nothing about gens. I like the chases against them cause its a guessing game on both sides. If we want to really talk there are killers more boring or annoying in chases then these 2.
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So, you might be so kind and tell us what kind of guessing game Deathslinger provides? You mean that kind of guessing game?
Cant set timestamp somehow, go to 9:10
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Some people think the best counterplay to a killer is to just come to forums and complain.
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Deathslinger I agree with mostly.
Pyramidhead? Not so much.
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This video is trash btw.
Dude....YOU CAN'T USE THE SAME TACTICS AGAINST EVERY KILLER IN THE GAME
They are all different, its not like survivors where you're all literal gameplay clones of each other.
So to have this ridiculous idea that you can play the game as if he's a trapper is nonsense.
He says "Nothing you've learned applies to these killers"
Right so....lets just ignore the fact that you can get behind objects for death slinger, or stop sprinting during a spirit chase, or VAULT A PALLET durring a spirit chase.
It has nothing to do with skill level, and everything to do with survivors not being willing to budge and adjust and use different tactics game by game.
They all want to play the same way, loop, pallet stun, flashlight <----but the second a killer makes 1 of those things invalid and you have to come up with a different way to avoid getting killed, survivors brains literally FREEZE! Like Hard Lock.
If anything, its proof that more killers should be made like this so survivors stop running through the game like robots expecting different results to happen if they keep doing the same thing over and over. <----Literally the definition of Insanity.
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well the first guy react well if it isnt for running in the killer , the second needed just to loop where he was and stop trying to duck like huntresshe would never have been able to get a hit with his power at least
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Then he would have been shot. He can not react to it anyway, if zub would have pulled the trigger, he would have got hit. And on most tiles, like this you can get reeled in no matter if a pallet is up there or not. You see the problem, right? Does not really matter what you do. But to be fair, this video was more to showcase how fair the fake is. And the predicting / guessing argument is not valid at all.
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My problem is I like killers who require skill to be good. That's why I love anti loop killers like nurse, huntress, and deathslinger they actually require skill to be good and being good rewards you. On the other hand though spirit, pyramid, doctor, freddy take a considerably less amount of skill to still be great anti loop.
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Guessing game, no, there is a better counter to Slinger. Run to a pallet and drop it early, turn and hold W... there you’ve just forced a 110 killer to chase you for a long time. If your teammates aren’t asleep at the wheel 3 gens should easily get done in the first chase
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Wait what did you just say to drop a pallet and then immediately leave the loop? Dude, he's just gonna walk around it and shoot you.
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Absolutely, same with a huntress who is out of hatchets, just running in a straight line while they refuse to reload is such a timesink for them.
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I can't say much about DS and Spirit, but for PH there are little things you gotta pay attention too. He is hard to play properly against good survivors, he requires skill with his power.
When charging his power, he is slower than you, giving minor distance. Make sure to pay attention to him, if he charges his power fully and lets it go to catch up to you, there is a small window where he cannot perform any action. If he is right behind you and cancels the power, try to get in his face to confuse him.
The whole thing for facing PH is being unpredictable. If you are easily predicted, a good PH will easily get hits through walls and be able to down you quick. When trying to loop around a pallet or window, try not to look behind you too much and only pay attention to the audio. If you just run straight to windows/pallets without looking behind, he will likely fire his ranged attack because he thinks you're gonna get locked in animation. You only need to dodge left or right and you get 3 seconds to gain distance and run to a new loop.
Always take advantage of stuff like stairs, his power can only go down slopes, never up them. Another thing to note, is that distance is your best friend against him. Unlike DS, his power is much shorter range and he can't punish you too hard for just running straight.
With all this in mind, you'll likely go down eventually purely because his power is very good for ending chases. It's not a problem, as there are 4 survivors and one of him, so best thing you can do is just buy as much time as possible.
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How should that change anything? You might be able to pull that off when you get the stun (if even), but you will not stun a good Slinger .. you know he can shoot you before you have the oportunity. And when you run away... great he will ignore that pallet and walks around.
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Don’t people get tired of the same discussions over and over again and using the same “Scott Jund said this” argument?
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While it requires skill for Deathslinger to hit his shots, it doesn't require skill to constantly fake your instant, no cooldown aim-down-sights in order to zone a survivor for free.
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As long as a certaint topic is still relavant, no why should it? Human nature tends to complain first and after they released some steam, they stop, even the problem is still existing. Sorry, i dont work that way.
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Uh huh, and what about every other killer? You can be the best wraith in the world will still lose to an optimal swf, and that's unfair in my book. Fact is, this game is seriously unbalanced at both ends of the spectrum, so we all just have to deal with it.
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Good then he walks around, it’s longer than the route you’re running. Deathslinger is in-escapable but you can waste a whole heck of a lot of time running straight ahead and pre dropping.
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Please, again this is not about ballance! Stop with those arguments because they are not valid the slightest ty... You CAN make a killer that is fair and strong at the same time....
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If you mean Dead Hard, yes maybe thats true. Not saying Dead Hard is not an issue aswell. This is not a Survivor vs Killer discussion, its about extremly unfun chase experience because of killer mechanics that are terrible.
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This ^
Don't forget billy as well, as his lack of things in case is just barely made up in pressure and being able to bail survivors easily.
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Are you kidding me? I love going up against PH. The chases against him feel more like an action game. What I personally find boring is in half my chases doing the same run–around–something–3–times–and–then–throw–down–the–pallet. So, maybe the devs should change the game for me because I find that boring. I don't find that to be "interaction."
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You do know that Deathslinger can almost shoot through anything. Even if you put objects between you and him, most of the time he can shoot through it and put you in deep wound.
Pyramid Head? Braindead easy to play, all you have to do is start charging up your power, If the survivor tries to juke it you'll cancel it and instantly M1. If they just 'W' key, cancel your power and instantly M1. Its really just rinse and repeat with this man.
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No, the hit was not guaranted in this tile, if he shot he could've have miss the hit by a mile, you know survivor can move around when chained right, i've done it several time and the killer just couldn't get me.
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well wait for him to break? it's not that hard
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Clearly they can't. We have two killers that are strong and fair, but require a ridiculous amount of practice to play at a high level.
Its absolutely about balance. So long as gen times are fast and the survivor meta is the strongest thing in the game, you can't nerf the strong killers, just because they're boring to play against. You wind up dumpster fires like clown and demogoron when that happens.
A lot of people want a slow ads with deathslinger, but if you do that, he loses all chase potential and becomes awful. So you up him to 115%, but with the loops and obstructions and no ability to down over a pallet, he becomes "man with bayonet" and is still trash.
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lol yea he could have missed the shot, but thats it. Its in the hand of deathslinger if he gets the hit or not. Should ot be the case, there should be the possiblitiy for the other side to do anything against that.
If the killer could not get you, its not that you played good, its he playing bad. Same when i "dodge" a shot, it was not me outplaying Slinger, it was a mix of luck and Killer missing his shot. Well, you can call missing a shot luck aswell, but that does not change that its not in the hand of survivors if he hits you or not.
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I'll never understand how y'all can admit with a straight face you only have fun if you face easy killers; that says a lot more about you than the killer. So many people find PH fun because his ability actually requires some thought and strategic play from your part, not braindead looping like with most other killers. Dodging his ranged and making them go for it with good fakes is one of the most fun things in the game right now, y'all just hate adapting and changing your playstyle cause it actually requires some thought process from your part.
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I think the developers need to introduce AI killer bots, problem solved. You could have a killer that will play the way you want 'em too and won't deviate from whatever script you guys have in your heads. It'll be perfect.
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To me faking out is no different than 360ing, bodyblocking, and etc, it isn't encouraged by the game but it's a creative skill that players came up on their own in order to combat killers. The first time I was 360ed my mind was blown. Killers aren't allowed this. The community want us to play it straight like AI, we aren't able to challenge the way survivors play the game without ridicule. While I believe survivors' fun is valid, I'm getting to the point to where I no longer buy expressions like "brain dead" and ######### anymore.
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