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Spirit Nerf - Brainstorming
EDIT: I no longer really stand behind this initial idea. Read through the thread to pick up the change we're brainstorming on - it more resolves around giving the Survs a chance to cope with IF and WHERE the Spirit is phasing instead of limiting her power usage.
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You typically go down like this: She finds you, get's an M1 in and Phases after you, easyily trackable with grunts of pain.
Also, she virtually has no counter in the game, and even the safest pallets in the game where you have clear vision of the killer as a survivor, are always just 50/50 guessing due to her passive phases (disappearance for the blink of a second, making it harder to tell which way shes coming for you), short phases to close the distance (again 50/50 guessing is all you can do) or even just the threat of that, by just standing still you can hardly tell if she's gonna phase or not over a couple meters.
I propose the following change:
Her ability power does NOT recover while in an active chase. You can use the power in a chase, but once it is depleted it only recovers when out of a chase. Shifting it more from a "every loop in game breaker" to a map control and decent chase aid power.
If the Survivor messes up just a little, this won't even affect her much. But if he plays really, really well, it might sometimes be better for a Spirit to change targets. Maybe it would be okay to increase her Yamaoka Reach a little, to make the shift to Map pressure clear.
Currently it is problematic that, against a spirit on the same skill level, you are getting outplayed pretty quickly on pretty much every tile on the game.
Interested in your thoughts and ideas. Cheers
Comments
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As someone who thinks spirit needs a nerf,
please no please no please no please no please no please no please no please no please no please no please no.
But seriously that just does not sound fun. 110% killer with a one-time phase walk in a chase. There are better ways to balance her power.
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Oh yes, another "definitely not biased" post suggesting killing nerfs.
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That would do the job too and doesn't take too much away from her.
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I'm a Killer main btw, although I play 95% Huntress. But I don't want to play a Killer that pretty much almost wins everytime when facing the same skill level, I want it to be nearly balanced - which Spirit is not. It was fun when she first came out, but now it's just too easy to win
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Killer main that never played with the spirit.
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What makes you think I never play her? Got at least 20 Rank 1 Games played with her
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The only thing I don't like about her is how broken Stridor on her or not having Iron Will is. That is the only thing that needs to get fixed. Because if you are injured and if she phases you are dead unless you are at a pallet and have luck to hear her footsteps so you can stun her.
Else Spirit is fine.
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that sounds ok but her base movement speed would need to be increased or her phasing speed.
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As mentioned in my first post, I thought about giving her a longer base range on the Yamaoka, so she can use it apply Map pressure much better.
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Spirit don't need a nerf. Survivors need to learn how to play this game.
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Teach us sensei. How do you counter her?
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Considering every killer content creator (maybe aside from Tru3, although he wouldnt call himself a killer main I guess) disagrees with you, and some like Otz even considers her better than Nurse. Not to mention most players with several thousand hours in the game disagrees with you, im gonna go out on a limb and say that you are wrong.
That and just the general community, besides like most spirit mains, would like her nerfed or at the very least given proper counterplay besides flipping a coin.
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And I am a survivor main and I say that this idea is equal to deleting the character.
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By practice being a survivor? If you play survivor at any rank you see how bad teammates are all the time, does not matter if they are red rank or not there is lots and lots of space for improvement everywhere. To ask for nerfs instead of focusing on learning the game is lazy and proves a loser mentality. A team of very good solo survivors will win against any killer, problem is it's very rare to get four very good survivors in a team, but that is not the killers fault.
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Well put, your best chance as a surv shouldn't be a coinflip every time.
Maybe my first idea was not thought through enough - but that's why we're here brainstorming. I like the idea of giving the survs a chance to cope with what the spirit is doing. Maybe make her leave a cloudy trail while in phase walk?
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Yeah im not sure how much power would taken from her/given to the survivor by making her visible every once in a while when she phases. Or to at the absolute bare minimum giving a guaranteed way that works on every skin to see when she phases.
If giving a short visual cue where she is phasing to in her ability. Then survivors would potentially, if the loop is big enough, be given a chance where they know they can vault or flip pallets. Making countering her more consistent. If its too much of a weakness then maybe let her see survivors as well when they can see her, like a short visual. Or make her phasing cool down shorter when she doesnt get a hit or something like that.
If the second option of just giving a way of knowing is the way. Then it will make getting looped by her slightly more manageable. She could tecnically still stand still but an experienced survivor could make some counter plays with the knowledge that she is now phasing. Either slowly walking away, slow vaulting. Or making noise and then slowly walking/croughing out of sight.
Im not sure if either of these ideas are the best but they are some of the ones a lot have mentioned which I agreed with.
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You're dodging the question. How do you counter play her? I see high rank streamers saying that her problem is that she doesn't have counter play. I wanna know your tactics.
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The only counter play to her is stealth. Just like against the nurse pre-nerf. But when stealth fails, there is literally no reliable source of counterplay. It just doesn't make an interactive gameplay experience for Survivors.
I'm completely fine with dying to a killer that uses its strenghts better than I use mine. But knowing you have no chance to make a play on your own, having to rely on a killer to make a mistake? Feels pointless. It also does not feel rewarding to win games as a spirit to me, even with BBQ being my only perk.
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OR we can make the phasing and footsteps fade in&out depending how close she is to you?? Like the idea that she's listening for you and your listening for her seems neat.
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Lol when I played against spirit thinking on same nerf. But anyway I think she good soon mmr will work then Spirit and Freddy will be against rank survs
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She also so powerful when got stridor. Maybe this perk shouldn't work with her
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None of that actually answers the question of "How do you counterplay Spirit?" That's just general advice/statements.
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I like the idea that her power don’t recover during a chase, but it would be a very big nerf! Alternatively I would give her a normal movementspeed, otherwise she would be to easy to loop.
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Maybe we should be able to see a faint ghost-like version of her when she's phasing? It'd not solve her own strength to chase down survivors (since things are unchanged from her side) but it'd help survivors (a bit at least) to counter her by knowing where she is if they're paying attention?
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Of course there would be some adaptions that have to be made. But after reading through the comments, I actually think it's a better idea to not limit a power so much, as it's what keeps killers individual. So instead, I'd love to see a change we've talked about quite a bit in here, something that helps Survivors tell IF and WHERE she is phasing. Similar to what @Pawcelot just said, or the trail of shroud that I proposed.
One could also think about giving her an ultra rare addon to remove this, in which case she pretty much plays out like she currently does on default. You'd have to spend a red addon though to be this powerful as a killer, which is then fine. Almost all Killers have Addons that make them significantly more powerful. 4 Survivors can also run 4 purple/red tools to increase there power a bit. Balance should always be made around base stats.
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Was proposed earlier and I agree that the perk makes her too strong. She is balanced around not being able to see survs while in phase. If you tryhard her with stridor, that's just like farming helpless chicken. I've done it, it's fun for a game or two, but it just doesn't feel rewarding farming off probably good, but helpless Survs even on rank 1.
But I don't like the idea of only making Iron will immune to stridors effect, because the perk is already and always has been decent for Survs, this change and not nerfing the spirit would force all survs to pretty much always run it. Also I don't like just saying this killer can't use this perk, feels stupid and has never been done before, not the way to go.
It is probably best to leave the Spirit / Stridor interaction as it is, but instead "nerfing" the spirit in a way that the Survs have a chance to cope with what she's doing.
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