The complete list of killer buffs&nerfs
I made a post recently covering killers that need buffs and nerfs, but I think that I did not cover everything. Also, please, do not reply if you are:
1) A survivor that only wants m1 zombie killers that can be looped for years.
2) A killer that only wants super-speed one shot characters that have the survivor aura revealed at all time.
Sorry for mistakes, english is not my first language.
Let me start by saying how we can buff a few killers: Trapper, Wraith, Myers, Pig, and Demogorgon
The Trapper: when someone falls for one of his traps, people should not be able to instantly get out of trouble just because someone is nearby. It should take twice as much time to rescue someone. Also, escaping should not be random because it is just dumb to have one side get a free down&trap escape and compensate for a lack of skill just because of RNG. Make it so that escaping takes twice as much time as rescuing.
The Wraith: this killer would be viable if you could truly use his stealth. Right now, pay attention and you will see him coming and his power is useless. My fix for this would be: make him completely invisible and make his footsteps 25% louder. This would force the survivors to pay attention and keep their guard up, which fits the horror theme, while offering fair counter-play: you can hear him coming if you listen closely. He would not be underwhelming, because he could get close to survivors and get an easier time getting them, but he would not be op, because survivors could pay attention to sound and grass, allowing them to know he is coming and run away before it is to late.
For Myers, he might be strong vs noobs, but good survivors will make his stalk a huge waste of time. Here is an idea: since Myers is a stalker obsessed with someone, the obsession should give buffs to his power. For example, the obsession would slowly give points again after being fully stalked due to Myers being an obsessed guy and he could stalk faster (like get his evil within points 1,5 times faster). Also, to make it more interesting, if he is chasing the obsession, the bar of tier 3 would go down slower due to Myers being exited. That would make the obsession need to be scared and stealthy, otherwise it can be a danger to the team. Make it so that the obsession cannot change otherwise it would be op.
Pig could take a few changes that would overall be buffs:
She is to much of a tunnel killer, she is luck based and her mindgames linked to her ambush could be buffed. Here is the list of changes that should be made:
1) Reverse the change to make her traps useless if it is not activated in the end game. This removed a lot of pressure and stress from the survivors for no good reason.
2) Make it so that if the pig hits the survivor 15 seconds after being unhooked or healed from the dying state, the bear trap becomes inactive for the rest of the game and the survivor can escape with it. Tunneling is just not fun. Also remove the collision from their body so that there is no scummy body block with borrowed time to get out of trouble for free. Also make it so that if the pig is in a 24 meters radius, the timer will not continue (no more tunneling by following the survivor until he dies).
3) Make her ambush last slightly longer (like adding a second or two): it gives a really interesting mindgames, but it is sad that the survivors do not have any trouble with it on long loops.
4) Make her crouching&uncrouching animation slightly faster (like reduce the crouch time by 20%): without the add ons, her crouch gives way to much time to survivors to react to survivors.
5) RNG should not determinate if a survivor gets his head trap off. It should be a fixed amount of things required to get if off, because right now RNG gives no skill victories to either the pig or the survivors.
The demogorgon: he is a weak killer. The problems are: his portals take quite a lot of time to set up, are easy to remove and give a lot of time to survivors to run away. His lunge is fine, but is not enough to compensate for the portals. So, here is the deal: make the portals a dangerous place for survivors by:
1) Making the travel time a lot shorter (cut it by half or even more). This would make it so that survivors need to be careful around the portals and need a plan if they want to escape. This would make it a risky move to be around them.
2) Instead of seeing the demo getting out, only show a red light for all portals. Survivors would need to make a decision of staying there or not.
3) Give a notification to the killer when one portal is getting closed by survivors. Make it a risky move to close them.
4) Increase the time to cleanse a portal by 25% to let the killer react.
The clown was not mentioned because it is just a boring&weak killer that I do not have any good idea to make him better while fixing the fact he is boring.
And now, the words that killer mains hate: nerfing killers: they are 2 of them that should be nerfed, Deathslinger and pyramid head.
Deathslinguer. Why is his terror radius to small? It should be the default 32 meters. It is so dumb: he is already strong enough in a chase with his gun and this terror radius does not make sense: he is not a stealth killer by his lore, he is not meant to be creepy but to be a chase killer. This killer has the double ability of being a stealth killer and a chase killer. Those 2 should not be merged together, it just creates an op character.
Pyramid head: this killer can basically spam the hit threw the wall ability. If he misses, no problem, there is no recharge time, just a tiny cool down. He is basically free to spam as much as he wants this broken ability that can down someone. He should have to wait 15 seconds of more before he can use it again. Like, come on, if the survivor does not guess you, you get a free hit, but if the survivor guesses you, you get almost nothing as a penalty. The survivor does not have enough time to get to another loop, unless it is a broken map.
"OMG you are such an entitled survivor main that just wants killers that are easy to loop". I think it is a bit strange for an entitled survivor main that just want easy games to ask for some killers to be buffed, but ok.
"Why do you think that these killers are op?". The problem is that Deathslinguer had the chase potential of the huntress: yes, he might not have the 5 chances that the huntress has, but if you have a good aim, you can easily get the survivors due to it being instant. This already gives him great chase potential, which is enough by itself. However, if, in addition, we give him a broken terror radius, in addition of making no sense, it gives him 2 abilities:
1) The sneak up
2) The chase potential
For PH, he can just spam his ability with only a tiny cooldown. Even walls cannot stop him. As if this was not enough, he can also easily save time by sending survivors to the cage while avoiding things like decisive (easy tunnel). At this point, he is just a huntress that does not need to reload, with hatchets that go threw walls. He is just a stronger huntress, which is dumb.
Comments
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I respectfully disagree on pyramid heads wave attack, when you miss it theres actually a hefty miss cooldown that gives survivors ample time to make distance. His power lies in extremely powerful zoning because when he puts his sword down survivors wont know if you'll throw out the wave so they spaz and lose distance, or commit to the pallet drop or window vault which is a lose lose for them anyways because when they spaz you can M1, and when they commit it's a guaranteed M2.
I propose a cooldown to taking out the blade so the zoning isnt as strong, To balance out that nerf I would buff the speed of the wave so it's harder to react to, but keep the miss cooldown the same since it's fair if you miss. This could encourage less use of the weaker zoning from the nerf and more use from the actual power.
Also cages are fine, there meant to be used in only specific situations as using it all the time can hurt more than help. Overall okay post tho
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When you said 2 killers that should be nerfed I thought you meant Freddy and Spirit, not two actually balanced characters.
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@SwingnMiss I agree. Sounds like a good idea.
@SCP_FOR_DBD Freddy is not that bad and spirit had already been nerfed.
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Those characters arnt broken either?
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I can't agree with Slinger and ph...ph is heavily punished for missing which is why they don't fire usually unless it's a guaranteed hit..and controller survivors can easily dodge it , and slingers stealth is the only reason he can get a clean shot 90 percent of the time..otherwise he truly is just worse huntress
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Hard disagree, Freddy has great chase potential with snares, and great map traversal and control with gen teleport. Combine that with great slowdown addons and hes a terror. Spirit has great chase potential, map traversal, and control with her power. Combine that with perks like stridor and good addons and shes also a terror. You can’t tell me Death Slingers too powerful but Freddy is fine.
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I don't think any killer is too powerful tbh..you see you like most people illustrate their strength but not their weaknesses..if I did that I could make any killer sound broken but it's not that black and white..take the addons..freddys slowdown addons..do you know their values? Jump rope is like..3 percent...they're useless by themselves since their nerf..as for freddy's chase hes a loop shortener but hes still not the best chaser..spirit can use her power for map presence but if you don't run duration addons it may not be worth it..in both cases map presence comes at the cost of non power to start the chase orcwalk with no power so your chases could potentially be faster..there's a give and take
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That builds up overtime, and no. It’s literally freddys power to end chases faster, along with everything else. Him destroying loops automatically makes him good in a chase. And Spirits power can be used no matter what, whether its for map presence or chase it’s amazing. The duration is long enough that you can still get tremendous use out of it, now introduce addons and it only gets worse.
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for wraith: he need one of his addons to be base kit and maybe immunity to lightburn what you descibed would destroy his skill ceiling hes already weak he doesnt need to be louder for a benefit only the worst player will get any value out of.
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You clearly don't play her often..without addons she doesnt get much diatance..not terrible but not crazy either..and freddy's snares shorten loops but it doesnt always result in downs..smart survivors will just burn more resources, forcing you to play clever if you want to catch them fast..frankly I'd recommend you play those killers..you seem to have a lot of misinformation about them..due to streamers no doubt
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Mate, My second most played is Freddy, just behind Ghost Face, and I’m almost positive my highest mmr killer is Spirit with the matches I’ve been getting with her. If you can capitalize on the survs losing loops you can get a down, its about playing right. And anyone whos decent at resource management can get tons out of Spirit, even without addons. Try not assume someone’s inexperienced before you dismiss them out of hand, it makes you sound close minded.
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@immortalls96 the problem is that his gun is instant so yea, not much counter for survivors.
@SCP_FOR_DBD Freddy snares do not destroy looping potential, I have tested it a lot of time. His alow down add ons are broken, not his base kit. He can tp but there is enough time.
Also, EVERYONE, why are you so negative about this post for literally 2 killers while they are 7 killers? NO ONE talked about them.
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It makes loops way worse, thats all it needs to do, how you “tested” that I’m not sure, gen tp can allow for amazing map traversal and control, regardless of a decently long cooldown “Which shortens depending on how many are dreaming” While all playable in a vacuum combining them makes him too powerful. And the reason everyones talking about those two nerfs is because they are by far the most inaccurate part of the post, that should be apparent.
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Hard to when your saying objectively false things about the killers in general
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There's still the raising animation..besides its usually easy to tell when he will shoot unless your in the open but that's on you tbh
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Because when people agree with something there isn't anything to discuss.
That said, the Myers suggestion is both extremely gimmicky and limits his potential synergies without actually solving his issues. I'd do something different.
Demogorgon's buffs are a bit too much with how they synergies with each other. It would be more productive to just make the rat liver and rat tail addons basekit and then do an addon pass. MAYBE do the 2nd change but the other 3 are unnecessary.
Having anti-tunnel countermeasures on the pig is redundant, she is one of the worst Killers to tunnel with since her RBT's only give value if you don't tunnel.
Trapper and Wraith sure.
Deathslinger, 24 meters isn't a stealth Killer TR. It's just a 115% TR. Hag and Spirit have the same TR for the same reason and neither of them are considered stealth Killers either.
That said, consider the reason why a Killer would get a non-standard TR. First there is of course the Killers getting it as a direct part of their power like Myers T2. Clearly this reason does not apply to Deathslinger. However the 2nd reason is that slower Killers are more vulnuable to simply holding W and thus a lower TR is needed to compensate so they don't get too much distance too fast relative to the Killers MS.
Nurse and Huntress are exceptions because neither of them are vulnerable to just holding W. Nurse can move extremely quickly almost constantly while Huntress can hit you from across the map if she's good enough no matter how far you run.
Meanwhile, Deathslinger has a limited range of 18 meters, so a Survivor with a lot of starting distance can just hold W and never get caught. So a lower TR is needed to ensure the starting distance of chases isn't too large.
The same exact reason applies to both Hag and Spirit.
Either way though, 24 meters isn't a small enough TR to actually properly sneek up on a Survivor anyways. It's only when you stack it with stealth perks that you can sneak around, at which point duh, it's a stealth perk.
Anyways, then there is the Executioner.
He has 3 parts to his strengths:
- His anti-loop (what you are trying to address)
- His tracking
- His time save via cages
Ok so first of all, his tracking is fairly insignificant. The most value you are likely to get from it is seeing Survivors around a loop, which while useful isn't game changing. You will occasionally see Survivors at range with it, but usually you won't since they can easily crouch over it. Plus it takes time to set up.
Next are his cages, which ARE important. The time save itself in terms of raw seconds isn't that big of a deal however. The value is primarily in that you can do it fast enough to continue a 2nd chase or hook another Survivor without risk of them being picked up. This is important but isn't nearly enough to make a kit work on it's own. Obviously that's not the case but I'm just making sure to cover his other strengths before getting to the topic at hand here.
His anti-loop is what makes him a threatening Killer.
Punishment of the Damned has 3 main purposes:
- Hitting Survivors in an animation
- Hitting a Survivor from out of LoS while they aren't expecting it
- Hitting a Survivor in a VERY narrow hall
Keep in mind that your suggestion was a cooldown and that's what I am evaluating here.
First of all, understand that outside of those 3 conditions you cannot hit a good Survivor. Unlike with a Demogorgon lunge or a Huntress hatchet, you can dodge a PH attack purely reaction so long as you are ready for it (human reaction time is 0.2 seconds, PH's attack is 0.35 seconds at point blank range and 0.15 seconds is enough time to get out of range from the center of the attack)
What this means is that until they attempt a vault, readying PotD is not threatening. Unlike with Demo's shred which causes Survivors to move in advance giving you distance if you fake it in the open, PotD exclusively serves to block vaults and pallets because of this.
When you ARE using it for Survivors in animation it still is like Demogorgon's shred. The difference is that A: It works on pallet drops and B: you can do it from more angles.
While those are important, Demogorgon's shred has it's own benefits of A: Longer range by 3 meters and B: Can be used much faster due to allowing partial charges.
Shred also gives less distance than PotD for the Survivor on both missed and successful attacks. Due to a shorter cooldown and by Shred moving the demogorgon towards the Survivor when used.
So that being said, how does a cooldown effect this? Well all it does is that after a PotD he's an M1 Killer in a chase for awhile. Since PotD has no business being used in a chase when it isn't guaranteed (since as established non-guaranteed hits are effectively guaranteed miss's) that means the cooldown is effectively between successful shot, rather than failed shot. Or are trying to limit ambush shots, which aren't what is even being complained about in the first place. And on top of that, the ability is already comparable in strength to other powers with an even lower cooldown.
It shouldn't be compared to Huntress since Hatches get their strength from their extreme velocity, range and low cooldown. None of which are present for PH, not even range since 8 meters isn't that far outside of anti-loop usage.
Now a cooldown on successful shots isn't exactly adding counterplay. So all this nerf would do is make PH infuriating to play and extremely difficult to pick up while also suddenly losing his snowball potential, thus also making his cages useless since that snowball potential is the entire point of HAVING cages.
So no, he should not have a cooldown, at least not like you've suggested. It would just break his design without actually solving anything.
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Try again, I haven’t said anything incorrect, I said something you didn’t like.
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with PH i yes no he already punished for missing so let not make him useless now can we.
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No you were incorrect..freddy's addons for instance..you acted as if they were game changing when that's objectively a lie..you were just called out on it by someone who knew the truth of the matter..good day
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Nah, that adds up overtime, I ain’t alone in this. Quit acting like your opinion is fact.
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No it really doesnt..not at 3 percent lol
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It kinda does though, 4% times 4 for each survivor is 16%. Your slowing down overall gens by 16%, and it also applies to healing and sabotage. Not to mention the fact thats not using the purple and we aren’t accounting for the fact they stack. Even more deadly is combing it with thana.
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That's not how percentages work at all....and for thana to have value you need to injure multiple people as an m1 killer..usually not worth it and it's easily beaten with good medkits, botany knowledge , or autodidact
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Thats 4% at a time. Its 16% if everyone works on a gen at least once, which is pretty much every game. And all of Freddys hits are m1 hits, apply some sort of anti heal like nurses and healing now comes at its own massive drawback. You also seemed to have ignored them stacking as well. Combine the yellow and the purple with thana and nurses calling and god help the survivors.
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You'll get maybe 20 percent if you hit every survivor before they heal it off...not going to be realistic against good teams..once again your point is honestly non existant..you need to give up a perk slot and both addons for that inconsistent effect..I hate to say it but..you really don't strike me as experienced at high ranks..because otherwise you'd see that's a poor investment in today's meta
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You seem to to keep trying insult and discredit someone you don’t know in an attempt to be right. You also seem to have just ignored my anti heal perk with it, thats a pretty big thing to ignore. I speak from experience that anti heal addons with anti heal perks will make it harder to heal.
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So your worried about a situational not worth combo nobody really runs anymore because giving up over half your loadout to it is a bad idea...my friend your discrediting yourself..you treat percentages as multiplicative and it doesnt work that way at all..else thana wouldn't be considered weak like it is ..in fact itd be broken..don't assume I need to discredit you with that being your assessment
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But you are. You made an argument for it not being viable, I made an argument for it being viable, and then you acted like what you said was objectively correct, when it is subjectively correct. And you are partly right, I misunderstood the percentages for a moment. However I still believe 14% slowdown for healing and gens is pretty damn good ( Thats the purple and yellow addons combined) and I never said thana was good, I said when paired with other sources it could be good. Lets use your situation as an example, you said it was likely you’d only be able to get up to 20% before someone could heal. Combine that with Nurses and the addons and that is now 34% ponger healing and you can be seen if within range. Tell me that isn’t a massive advantage, this also comes with 14% slower gens, which is pretty damn good in the gen rush meta, and you still hqve two other perk slots. Say Pop and corrupt are the others, now you have breathing room to build up thana and gens are even slower with Pop. Know consider your playing Freddy, where loops are shorter with snares and you can get hits easier, gens are you ven slower with dream projection. That has gotten me enough 3/4ks for me to consider him top 3. You can keep saying I’m discrediting myself but until you provide an actual reason other than “They will do the thing you made extremely hard to do” I’m gonna keep saying what I’m saying.
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Other than maybe Pig you don't really get to the heart of the matter with these killers; for example, sure the Wraith buff sounds fine and all, but that doesn't do anything for the fact that he has literally 0 chase potential.
Same with Trapper. Great, I have 5% more chance to get to someone trapped across the map, but what about the 2-3 gens I lost when I was setting up traps? What about the fact that I hardly get to use my power because I only have 1 trap at a time and the other ones spawned across the map on top of a hill in the corner?
See what I mean?
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I really do not understand how anyone can say Deathslinger needs a nerf. I can only see people saying this if they are very low-experience/ new survivors. The only things that need a nerf regarding killers are some add ons such as Spirit movement speed and iri head. Mori offerings need to be deleted and the cypress mori should become a core game mechanic.
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