Decisive strike need a weakness
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You ignore, then that's on you. Take the stab, recover, follow the scratch Mark's. Simple as that.
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You say that like the grab system is working as intended lol
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I’d say when use it you become broken, and exhausted.
That might be enough.
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What's needed are more killer obsession perks that disadvantage the obsession. Survivor perks that make you more likely to be the obsession like OoO or ones that make you into the obsession when used like DS or FTP seem to be trying to give a downside to compensate for the potential strength of the perk, but aside from rancor there's no popular killer o-perks that make that worth considering. STBFL gets you left alone. Dying light buffs you. PWYF means that the killer will deliberately prolong chases with you etc
More popular killer perks that make being the obsession not ideal wouldn't have to be as obnoxious as rancor or old dying light but might encourage some thought going into use of the survivor equivalents rather than literally no consequence 99% of the time. If not in perk form, then some inherent base advantage + disadvantage to being the obsession that might appeal to some but not all survivor players.
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Ds has a weakness, it expires too soon. Unless you're dumb enough to get caught within a minute of being rescued.
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There is only one question...
Why does it need a weakness?
As others have said, you can still go down if found again. You NO LONGER have 60 seconds (The timer starts once unhooked not once again found).
It doesn’t have weaknesses but it has limitations in which they have to be grabbed by the killer within those limitations.
You (killers) don’t have limitations on how many times you can slug, camp and tunnel tho. Maybe let’s start with that and then see if DS actually needs an adjustment.
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At this rate ds will be literally unusable (actual literally) unless you're being tunneled (and someone rescues you while killer is nearby) or you get caught again on purpose.
Imo even the 60s timer on its own makes it pointless, now you want it to deactivate unless I just walk it off?
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Finally! Some sense in this community! Most people just want to make the game easier for them and that's a load of crap. I like it balanced and DS is 1 way to make it balanced but killers still hate the fact they dont get their easy kill. I always expect DS as a killer. It why I never rush the hook again and as I've said in other posts. Without scummy tactics I still get 3k or 4k depending on my skill with that killer. And that's also depending on if i am just doing a ritual or goofing of as i do every so often.
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So.... keep survivors from doing ANYTHING because you selfishly want that win? Gotcha. Way to go random killer main! Ruin anybody's ability to survive! That'll make it more balanced!
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DS has counterplay already.
1) Slugging
2) Failing the skill check
3) Pyramid Heads Cages
4) Mori
5) Devour Hope
6) Myers Tombstone
Now you might be thinking these are all really conditional and slugging can be countered with Unbreakable or a team mate picking them up. During the time they are slugged they are not doing a gen, you could be chasing another survivor who is also not doing a gen, if there is no Unbreakable a third survivor has to come off a gen to get them up. Also if you get hit with DS early in game the impact is really minimal, in some games DS doesn't even get the chance to be used.
Is it strong? Yes it is, should it be changed/nerfed? No leave it alone! Killers have plenty of kit available to work around it.
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Because once you feed them a crumb, they'll ask for the entire loaf of bread.
That's why you don't cater to complaints from Survivors who can't handle a single killer.
Wait this has been happening for 4 years.
Hmm...
Survivors be running a bakery.
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Tbh, you are not wrong. Survivors complain too. But most have valid reasons. Like for instance, Executioner. When he came out, he would put people in cages and then stand directly in front of the survivor. Sure the rest of us could do gens but then the killer accuses us of gen rushing while the killer stands there blocking us from saving a survivor who can't play because of it.
My point here is survivors all have the disadvantage. They just want an even playing field against the killer and giving them a chance while killers complain cause they can't always get their 4k the they absolutely "deserve" to get cause they "worked hard" tunneling and face camping *cough every Leatherface cough cough* making the game nearly impossible to play for survivors to play. So survivors dont even get a crumb cause as soon as its offered the killer mains swoop in and try to snatch it out of our hands like they are more deserving of it.
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I just played a match against someone with Decisive Strike. After they were unhooked, they completed a generator while I chased down and hooked one of their team mates. I then walked across the map, chased, and downed another of their team mates. They body blocked me so I couldn't pick up the downed survivor, so I knocked them down too. Since they stayed on top of their team mate I had no real choice but to pick them up, after which point they stabbed me in the neck and ran off.
Again, that is:
- 3 downs
- 2 chases
- 1 hook
- 1 gen
And the perk still triggered. Are killers meant to have 4 stopwatches at the ready just to time when each survivor was last unhooked, just in case any of them have this perk?
The way I see it it's only still in the state that it is because it's behind a paywall. BHVR apparently loves that pay-to-win microtransaction cash.
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But that isnt because of DS. None of that is. It's all the survivors that were doing scummy tactics
Edit: and paywall? Dude just shut up. You dont have to pay to get DS. I got it with Iridescent shards. Didnt pay a penny for it besides time.
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Ok, so just to throw some math at you.
If the person was working on a gen with another person (not counting a toolbox) that means it would have taken them 47.06 seconds to complete. DS lasts 60 seconds.
So 60 s - 47.06 s = 12.94 seconds
Which means that had you actually remembered you hooked this person, you could have slugged them for 13 seconds and not get stabbed.
No one is asking you to get a stopwatch, just to pay attention. The problem is because the perk has a "tunnel" purpose tag next to it, people seem to have a problem with it. Literally the perk works exactly as it did before, only they have added conditions to it.
I guess a hook phase shouldn't be a condition and you should be able to stab at any given time.
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Ty, bruh. You speak truths!
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Honestly ds and unbreakable should make you exhausted. This way you can't abuse both in synergy and also even if you ds, you can't then dh or other bs, and I be fine with it.
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Spoken like a true killer main!
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Was that suppose to offend me or something? I am a killer main, yeah, and I am quite tired of dealing with a game where one side is favored so heavily. I give you a hint, it aint killers side.
Whats funny is that my suggestion is not even that broken. The only thing it removes is ds + unbreakable really. You still can abuse your ds as you normally do, don't worry. If you seeing an issue that you can't dh/head on after ds, then let me ask you this. How many ######### chances do you need buddy? Want me to hold your hand too maybe to fulfill your life needs when I down you instead of hooking you?
People say, tunneling is bad! Bad killer! He tunneled me even though my team and I literally abuse the perk and I am only one visible but killer got to ignore you cause respect the ds! Killer downed both of you but got to ignore you cause respect the ds. Question is when killers gonna get any respect? So tunneling is bad, aka rushing one survivor till they are dead in a game where you need 9+ hooks to get highest badge in that category, I repeat, 9+. Yet gen rushing is fine when you only need to do 5 of them. You may say but wait, there is overcharge, it's like a ds for killers, right? Well no, cause it is still in survivors control to hit that skill check, which is no different than ds skill check, aka, you got no issues by passing that.
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Is preventing people from being, in your words, "scummy" not a good thing?
Regarding your other comment, that would mean you've had the perk for at least 9 months, since that's the last time it was in the shrine and there wasn't a paywall. Yes, nine months. Anyone who started playing January of this year would have had to pay real money to get the perk.
It's a little concerning that you've used the perk for that long and can't seem to understand how it might be an issue.
This does not add to the conversation and just proves you're wholly biased. If you arguments were reasonable in the first place, they certainly wouldn't be trustworthy now.
"Pay attention"? You're arguing that the killer should know exactly how long it's been since the third-from-last person they caught was unhooked by another survivor outside of their control, while they're forced to concentrate and outplay the other survivors they're actively chasing. That is just not a reasonable request. Killer is already far more taxing than survivor since you don't have downtime holding M1 on an objective.
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1 sided is correct. Killers have all the power. When I play survivor, all my teammates use decisive and ######### about how the killer slugged them and waited on their corpse till DS deactivates. And 9/10 games, killers STILL WIN! OMG! THATS AMAZING! Even with a team of decisive users! Man I thought winning was impossible by the way you guys talk about it! Oh. No. Just the killers who suck. This game is very heavy towards killers. You always have the upper hand as killer. You just dont know cause you obviously suck.
Actually. Since I never said it I'm guessing you would never guess that I never use it. I dont want to use it cause I play a game called "avoid the killer at all costs until you need the points" so I use a more stealthy approach to the game. I used it once and didnt like it.
And another thing is I can't be biased if I side with both sides. I've defended killers and survivors as well as criticized both. I know what needs to be fixed (Myers' stupid 99'd stalking capabilities and removal of Wraiths silent bell on top of survivors abilities to 99 everything including their grandmother) but I side on balance and unfortunately killer mains tend to go for the fact that they "deserve" a 4k every game. I play more survivor then killer but I prefer killer. I play survivor cause I wanna play with my wife. But I've gone against every kind of player and know how to counter it. Time for you to learn it too instead of complaining about the survivors having even the slightest capability to counter scummy actions.
Now regarding your "scummy" comment, no. It's not a bad thing. Only everything you named off had nothing to do with DS and everything to do with the aggressive survivors dont hate the perk, hate the players, bruh!
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"Everyone who disagrees with me just sucks at the game". Is this a joke? Are you just trolling?
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"You never said this in the comment but ima say you did anyways because I'm gonna believe that people who disagree are all acting like this!" Are you a joke or are you just a troll?
If people can actually come up with a REAL reason why its op, then I'd listen but all I am reading in "wah wah wah! The survivors keep escaping my grasp! That perk needs to go away so I can tunnel and get my well deserved 4k that I havent recieved!"
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Yes, I am arguing that you should pay attention. Much like when you have to pay attention when Freddy is using fake pallets.... Or when you have to keep track of how many pallets a killer has ate when using Spirit Fury. No Ed same thing, you keep track of how many totems because you don't know they have it unless you are good at predicting the difference in speed or see the totem straight away.
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and im betting you are one of the first people to complain and be toxic in someones im's when it happens to you expecially if it costs you a pip stop being ignorant
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That might be a bit far and definitely toxic.
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it's not far it is right on the money and nothing toxic about it it is my honest opinion as to what i believe most of these people complain in msgs when they die expecially if it costs them a pip due to tunneling etc or a hag using phantasm traps on a hooked body just to port back and catch either the hooked and rehook or catch the other most people will msg and talk bad to the killer for doing such actions he is goign to defend this saying nothign is wrogn with tunneling yet if he is the surv being tunneled he would be one of those people talking trash in a msg it is ignorant so what was toxic about my statement?
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That attitude is what's toxic. You don't know his life so don't dictate how he acts.
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what does his life have to do with saying tunneling is ok i was just i na game where the kid face camped even after unhooking while unhooking the guy would walk behind the hooked and instant down him picking him up not chasing the unhooker and rehook vics he did this 2 all 3 other survs and caght me before finding hatch you tell me how its fun or fair that people tunnel and he is saying nothing is wrong with tunneling you are just as bad as him for supporting him like i said their was nothing toxic about my statement i was simply stating what is in my mind about it and he would more or less be one of us you him her to complain in the persons ims saying the player is crap etc for doing so but yet he is saying he does it himself and sees nothing wrong with it that is being ignorant so how was me saying this toxic? it wasn't thank you now this is being toxic stop being a drama queen and get over yourself k thx
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He was respectful about it and you came in giving absolute attitude and were an ass. So yes. You were toxic
Edit: I skimmed cause I've read these answers before. You calling me names like "drama queen" is also toxic
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I'm too lazy to link it (I can if someone wants me to) but I've seen many, many cases where someone with DS up goes for an unhook, the killer grabs them during the unhook animation, and they get DS'd.
Always pisses me off.
Personally DS should deactivate if you touch a generator, totem, heal someone else, (being healed and self-healing is allowed) try to unhook someone else, sabo a hook, etc. I think entering a locker shouldn't deactivate DS by itself but progressing the game-state by working on generators, totems, unhooking someone, etc. definitely should.
Remove the skill-check too maybe. Dunno why BHVR exempted Unnerving and Huntress Lullaby from affecting DS because they originally didn't.
Either way DS is just a pain in the buttcheeks and cocky survivors running up to you flashlight clicking after an unhook trying to bait you into getting DS'd has encouraged me to run Moris in all of my games to counter DS if it's obvious the survivor is trying to bait me.
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Cool. Congrats. It's a pain in the rear. It should be. When people use borrowed time on my, I will body block players who are near me. You gonna say BT should deactivate withing a certain distance of another survivor too? Come on and stop the complaining.
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Aight take a look at these clips and explain how the killer was tunneling.
DS from survivor in an otherwise suicidal unhook (I refer to these "In yo' face" unhooks as Hook-Yeets) after an interrupt. He downs the hook-yeeted survivor, downs the hook-yeeter, downs a third survivor who was unhooked earlier in the clip. (Notice how far away the third survivor is on the hook at 0:13. Kinda close but not that close, meaning the survivor approached the killer after the unhook.) He picks up the third survivor and gets DS'd. Finally, with all momentum lost, he attempts to pick up another survivor, (the hook hook-yeeted one) and gets DS'd.
Survivor does the infamous hook-tech and hook-yeets. Once again, interrupted and DS'd for an otherwise braindead, game-throwing play on the survivor's end.
Survivor rushes up to the hook and unhooks the survivor (Not really a divebomb/hookyeet). Killer downs both, picks up the unhooker, gets DS'd. Picks up unhooked survivor. Get's DS'd. Adrenaline procs, all momentum is gone and the game is over.
I don't have any context for this clip but it sort of explains itself. 3 locker-DS's, literally back-to-back.
More back to back DS's.
2 guys hooked, third survivor unhooks, he downs the guy doing the unhooking, DS'd.
So, can you explain how the killer was tunneling in these clips? (Besides the 4th one, no real context for it.)
It's these scenarios that are why I want DS changed. By the way, I never mentioned borrowed time.
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Unnerving Presence since a patch which implemented ui changes for Coulrophobia, Overwhelming Presence and Unnerving itself no longer affects the Decisive Strike Skill Checks.
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yes but to change the skill to make for the ones not tunneling would only make it so the ones tunneling could tunnel more freely the purpose ds was implemented into the game to begin with was because of tunnelers it wasnt expected to be used the way it is and a lot of those back to back ds's happening are friends who watched streamers gaming with friends toying with a killer so punish everyone in terms because of a few cocky people? killers are already op'd enuff as is so to start cutting down on survivers skills only makes it harder o na surv not on a killer level 1 killers can take on a full red rank team and still get the 4 ko game winning hook or mori so i dont see what the problem is tbh all the killer has to do is knock the unhooked down and continue to patrol after roughly 45-60s the ds is gone so instead of goign for back to back hooks try being creative? pay attention to what people you have hooked already and if you know youve hooked them in the past 45-60 seconds or so just knock them down and continue on your way another surv will pick them up then the next time you know that 1 hook them at least you canceled out the ds instead of you people tryign to rush games back to back super fast * making the game boring and unfun * try chasing multiple different survs if they cant get the gens done because you patrol gens and chase as you see people etc then the game is prolonged taking longer to get gens done meaning ds wears off inbetween hookings not to mention you can potentially get 8k points in all 4 emblems? opposed to only getting very little points you stand the chance to make 30k points and if you have double points offerign then you make 60k that game etc its people not thinking and tryign to end things as soon as the game starts that kill the game not how to survivor is using ds you are just in to much of a rush to think of how to counter these skills and then cry for a nerf of a skill i will be the first to say i play killer way better then surv i can 4 k/o a red rank team as a level 1 killer but yet get slapped super fast by a purple to red ranked killer
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You dont have to mention Borrowed Time cause I used it as a reference counter. There are always people who are gonna abuse these abilities. But for the few players who do, there are many more who dont. Changing it even more is going to ruin it for the rest. And the killers could have done a way better job at hooking them.
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yes but to change the skill to make for the ones not tunneling would only make it so the ones tunneling could tunnel more freely the purpose ds was implemented into the game to begin with was because of tunnelers it wasnt expected to be used the way it is and a lot of those back to back ds's happening are friends who watched streamers gaming with friends toying with a killer so punish everyone in terms because of a few cocky people? killers are already op'd enuff as is so to start cutting down on survivers skills only makes it harder o na surv not on a killer level 1 killers can take on a full red rank team and still get the 4 ko game winning hook or mori so i dont see what the problem is tbh all the killer has to do is knock the unhooked down and continue to patrol after roughly 45-60s the ds is gone so instead of goign for back to back hooks try being creative? pay attention to what people you have hooked already and if you know youve hooked them in the past 45-60 seconds or so just knock them down and continue on your way another surv will pick them up then the next time you know that 1 hook them at least you canceled out the ds instead of you people tryign to rush games back to back super fast * making the game boring and unfun * try chasing multiple different survs if they cant get the gens done because you patrol gens and chase as you see people etc then the game is prolonged taking longer to get gens done meaning ds wears off inbetween hookings not to mention you can potentially get 8k points in all 4 emblems? opposed to only getting very little points you stand the chance to make 30k points and if you have double points offerign then you make 60k that game etc its people not thinking and tryign to end things as soon as the game starts that kill the game not how to survivor is using ds you are just in to much of a rush to think of how to counter these skills and then cry for a nerf of a skill i will be the first to say i play killer way better then surv i can 4 k/o a red rank team as a level 1 killer but yet get slapped super fast by a purple to red ranked killer
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You dont have to mention Borrowed Time cause I used it as a reference counter. There are always people who are gonna abuse these abilities. But for the few players who do, there are many more who dont. Changing it even more is going to ruin it for the rest. And the killers could have done a way better job at hooking them.
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Direct quote, from the post I literally just quoted: "You just dont[sic] know cause you obviously suck."
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Well you do suck since you can't seem to deal with a simple perk. Not my fault for calling you out on it. It's not a matter of "if you don't agree with me." It's a matter of whether or not you have a valid argument or not. And you dont. Plain and simple.
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I think DS needs to work exactly the way it works now (after an unhook to avoid tunneling), but it needs to have just 1 use as it used to work in the past.
Nowadays you can use DS twice, which gives you 120 seconds of invulnerability, that's why is so strong.
If the perk had 1 use like unbreakable, it would be balanced.
Unbreakable can be strong in really tight situations, also DS. So why DS has 2 uses and unbreakable 1? This is the issue in my opinion.
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Only 60 seconds active, up to twice a game, over all 4 survivors, Its too strong as is just make it an actual anti tunnel perk, if you have time to do gens or otherwise progress the state of the game, you don't deserve free invincibility
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DS can only be used once. If you fail or succeed the skill check the perk is disabled for the rest of the match.
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See. Now this is a reasonable request as a debuff. I dont use the perk so I didnt know it could be used twice. This is a proper argument for a nerf.
You too. Damn now I have to change my stance. It should be allowed only once.
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Wait really?
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Sure? I think that I could use it twice when I played survivor one time.
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Here is it the wiki.
And actually yes, this piece of text says: "Succeeding or failing the Skill Check will disable Decisive Strike".
But it doesn't say something like for the whole game.
I'm not a main survivor so I don't know this for sure, but I remember that I tried the perk once they changed it, and I kinda thing I used it twice tho, once per unhook.
It will be nice if somebody can confirm me this please.
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It had weaknesses. Long ago before the Obsession mechanic was changed:
- The skill check was smaller (Overcharge Lv 3)
- DS was affected by Unnerving Presence and Enduring
- You risked getting tunneled because of DL or remember me.
-The killer could also juggle you.
Since these were changed,... Well.
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I understand survivors need a perk to counter tunneling, but right now DS is not just an anti tunnel perk, it can also be an anti momentum perk. In my opinion the current state of DS is bad game design. This is coming from someone with 2k hours who plays both sides on a regular basis. Why do I think that it is bad game design? Because it has no counterplay, activates after the player was outplayed or after the player messed up, in other words it requires no skill to activate or to be able to use it and in some cases allows the survivor to make very dumb plays that sometimes pay off and sometimes they don't, either way it can make the game annoying and unfair.
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