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Being Able to Stack 2+ slowdowns on Killers Should not be Allowed
I have always been against the use of 2+ slowdowns such as Corrupt/Ruin Pop. I find this combo to be overkill especially in public matches. At the top % of games I would understand killers having the need to use it but most games and killers does not. Using these perk combos also encourages bad play because killers can rely on their perks to win games.
Just saying I am a killer main who does not use slowdowns. I use tracking/chase perks and rely on slugging for pressure.
Comments
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Talk to the SWF because they brought you the ever increasing slow down combos.
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And that's your playstyle. For others, it's stacking the slowdowns. For me, it's tracking perks mixed with slowdown.
Unless I'm just in an A-hole mood, then it's Freddy with every slowdown possible. If I'm really feeling like an a-hole, it's Freddy with every slowdown available and an ebony mori. Luckily, either of those situations are extremely rare for me to play. Except for my first match when I play tonight. I have a daily ritual to Mori someone as Freddy for a free 60k BP, so guess what's being played?
But so what? The game allows all of those things. To each their own.
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I'm running corrupt and pop on some killer to compensate them having low mobility i.e The Plague or Ghostface. If someone wants to stack all the slowdown perk let him be, he's sacrificing chase perk and information perk for it, abuse that.
While I don't want to bring the SWF debate also when I'm mostly facing DS,SB,Unbreakable,BT, pretty sure you don't see 3 Slowdown perk on every killer.
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How about 2+ second chance perks?
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Then why not just run corrupt? It zones the survivor forcing them to come to you. If you need more pressure from slowdown perks, then you are most likely doing something wrong in the match. Even against most Swf, you can still beat them without the use of 2+ slowdowns. Not every swf is a seal team 6 on coms.
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2+ slowdown perks are definitely fine, seeing as how fast gens can be repaired.
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"What about this", "What about that", "What about X killer thing", "What about X survivor thing". With this attitude nothing will get done. I am focusing on one issue of the game. Yes, there are plenty of crutch and unfair perks survivor has but I am talking about stacking slowdowns.
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I understand fully. I was mocking the premise
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Yeah and every survivor should have deja vu and this is not happening hard locked into their build just in case they would want to stack their meta perks too.
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You adapt. That is how this game evolves. Survivors ignored Totems and coordinated to the point where most of the Generators are up in within 3-4 minutes. Killers started using the Mori again more liberally to slow it down and every Perk they could to slow it down too. Clearly the DEV can see data we can't, but I expect it merely confirms what all of us playing guess. Thus, even more Perks that slow things down are coming out. You guys will adapt fine.
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I never understood this. A killer can end games faster than a survivor can do gens. Does that make meta perks for survivors fine?
Edit: Forgot to add the word "perk"
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2+ why not just try 4 and a key!
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Sure they should. People should run whatever perks they want. Except OoO. Screw OoO.
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"Survivor Main" playing killer.
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Corrupt is bad on most killers IMO.
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Exactly. I down them and facecamp their body while they bleed out, nodding my head when it's an object.
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That's the main problem with the game. Why bother bringing a variety of perks while you can just follow the meta? Killers bringing slowdown perks and survivors bringing second chance perks is so common because mixing the best perks together is not prohibited in any way.
It gets boring easily, but it's the most effective thing to do for both sides, especially since you don't get any bonuses or rewards for bringing weaker/niche perks.
Maybe something like a "perk of the day" or a "build of the day" should be implemented to the game, where by using a randomly daily chosen perk or build you get some bonus bloodpoint gains. Would be fun and it would be entirely optional, too.
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Yes i think that the meta perks for survivors are fine. Also survivors are more in control over not getting down too fast, than killer are in control of not letting the gens be repaired so fast.
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Yes, because I want a nerf to killers must mean I am a survivor main. Just like how I want a survivor nerf must mean I am a baby killer main.
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Because after 2 minutes corrupt is gone and you're a killer with only three perks.
Note also that they removed synergizes between slowdown perks. Gens no longer regress when blocked off like with thrilling tremors or dead man's switch, no slowdown perks work in combination with surge, ruin no longer gains benefit from pop and can still be quickly removed from the game.
Pop has a time limit and can only be used after a hook and doesn't gain tokens or stack with consecutive hooks so if they hook three Survivors and don't use it they've wasted two uses of pop.
There's lots of reasons to combine slowdown perks instead of just running one and some killers don't even need them because of the pressure built into their basekit and some killer players don't even use slow down perks.
The only killer I run pop on is Oni but I could easily swap it out for infectious, rancor, or bitter murmur for better tracking/slugging capabilities. The only killers I run Corrupt on are Doctor and Pig to get the first chases started for the early game pressure because of their power to slow down the match throughout.
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Just because you get survivors that allow you to get by without slowdown doesn't mean everyone gets those potato survivors as well.
I wouldnt have to run those slowdown perks if every map didnt have 20 pallets, or if it took longer than 4 minutes for all gens to be done, or if every survivor didn't bring 4 second chance perks, or if maps like ormond and midwich didnt exist.
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Pop + ruin/corrupt isn't going to guarantee a win and are very necessary when considering the current generator balance and meta. Introducing a cap on number of slowdown perks will be a nerf to setup oriented killers like hag and trapper and to a degree, demogorgon. Then you also nerf killers with no built in map pressure, which includes Myers, Clown, Deathslinger, Leatherface, Pyramid Head, Ghost Face, Doctor and Plague (Legion still has some traverse and pig has RBTs, so I'm excluding them). These are killers who require stacked slow down perks to compensate for their (over)specialisation in chase. Now I'm not saying that every player playing these killers are obliged to run several slow down perks, but the current meta is pushing them into a corner where it is increasingly difficult not to use multiple slow down perks for the average player. Otzdarva published a 2 hour video explaining good and reliable builds for every killer, in which almost all had 2+ slowdown perks. So even the most experienced killer mains will run and recommend builds with 2+ slow down perks.
I'm not saying you're wrong with your standpoint, I just want to give you a perspective from a survivor main and how I experience facing killers with and without slowdown perks. I understand your point, you can build pressure through shutting down loops quickly and efficiently and winning chases fast. But the average killer won't be able to do it as fast. And giving them time to explore their power throughout a match and using their power in creative ways or learning and understanding general killer tricks will certainly help improve both their experience of the match and their skill over time.
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No, its because of your obvious ######### opinion on how a killer should play. If you were actually a decent killer you would know at red ranks its almost a free win for survivors if you have zero slowdown on gens.
Survivors literally pop them out incredibly fast in red ranks that if you play the way survivors want you to play you will lose every game. You can continue to play the you are playing and hover around green ranks if that makes you happy, but hell no I'm not going to give survivors free gens just because.
If I have to deal with decisive strike, unbreakable, dead hard, adrenaline, and borrowed time every match, im sure 4 survivors can handle 2 slow down perks from the killer.
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Actually, most of your commentary simply reveals you to be relatively new to the game and that you haven't learned enough to make these big statements. I'm new to the game too, but the difference between you and I is I don't think I have enough time in grade to really decide what works and what doesn't yet. The DEV do this for a living, and many of the Players here have been doing it for four years. Forgive me if I trust their judgement over yours.
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Maybe killer end faster becuz your team is playing extremely horrible but even playing good as killer a good SWF can rekt a killer.
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Sure, as long as survivors are not allowed to use more than 1 second chance perk at time.
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Corrupt Intervention isn't a slowdown perk. It's a map control perk. It basically makes the map smaller, allowing you to patrol less, saving you time. It's more of a perk in line with Save the best for Last.
I think you would have a better argument if you said sloppy/thana/pop/dying light with forever Freddy/Legion. In that case, yes, the synergy b/t all those perks should die in a fire.
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You're complaining about killers stacking multiple perks to drag the game out in the killer's favor (hindering survivor progress), so you're obviously going to run into the counterpoint of survivors using multiple perks to do the equivalent to the killer.
If you're not going to address it when it comes up, you're just going to come off as biased and/or ignorant.
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Why do you assume that I am new to the game? I have thousands of hours and I know what works and what does not. I am trying to say that stacking slowdowns in public matches works too well. This should be changed. Just because the devs do this for a living does not mean they know what they are doing. Just because someone has been playing the game since release does not automatically mean they know whats best for the game. I know plenty of people that have more hours than I do and say that DH and SB is perfectly balanced and should not change. Does that mean they are right? No.
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Because of what you say. I've heard it literally hundreds of times here over and over again (and I haven't even been here that long). And let me be blunt, you don't have thousands of hours. If you did, you would be better at the game. As I put my head down and fight my way toward a better Rank I've noticed a distinct trend, the more potent the Rank of the Players, the better the manners and the more helpful they are in every meeting. And playing Devil's Advocate, and pretending I believe you have thousands of hours in the game, you REALLY need a new hobby if you haven't gotten good enough to deal with the problems you are voicing. I mean, if true, that is downright humiliating. Why would you admit that in context of your posts?
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I would prefer 2 slow downs over 4 small pp builds which happens really often so I don't see any issues.
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Nothing wrong with it.
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Slowdown perks being stackable is why their numbers are unimpressive on their own, it's why the thanatophobia buff never went ahead. Imo the only broken levels of slowdown were
- old dying light plus other stuff
- old ruin + pop
- first version of new freddy with slowdown addons + slowdown perks
But none of those exist anymore.
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You mean same way survivors can stack DS and UB?
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You make no sense. So because I don't believe that killers should be able to stack slow downs MUST mean I am either bad at the game or my lobbies are filled with bad survivors? There are plenty of amazing killer mains that don't use slow downs on killer and are able to perform well most of their matches. I can name a few streamers but that's against the rules. You are correct in the last part though. MOST survivors are not good at the game. It's a party game not a competitive one. Yes, there are circumstances such as going against a pro teams such as ID but it is rare and not a valid excuse to rely on 2+ slowdowns.
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I'm really not in the mood to rhetorically club a baby seal. I disagree with you. Clearly the DEV disagree with you. Pretty much every potent Ranked Player who has offered me advice and suggestions in my builds has disagreed with you. Your screed isn't going to do squat; the sooner you accept that, the sooner you can get to playing and learn to overcome those things causing you issues. That is the long and the short of it. Get playing or get lost.
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16 second chances should not be allowed.
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Then survivors cant stack ds,ub,dh and bt.
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You already got an answer to that: your playstyle is slugging. Slugging is one of the top 3 unfun things to go against. So get another slowdown perk to avoid slugging. It is also is not necessarily fun for killers to slug, so why prohibiting another slowdown perk? This is everyone's personal choice.
What do you mean? By slugging everyone and ending the game with 4 hooks? Yay, gg... If you count every 12 hooks possible against semi decent survivors that don't run every tile perfectly but just drop every pallet possible, then nope, the killer won't end the game faster than survivors can. Versing efficient survivors needs a good killer to extend the game beyond 5 minutes.
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You are complaining about nothing.
Corrupt doesn't regress gen progression. If a gen is blocked, just go work on another one.
And for Ruin & Pop: You can't even use these perks together. As long as Ruin is active, you cannot Pop anything.
On the other hand, the strongest survivor perks do work very well together. Is that fair?
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Very few slowdown perks stack anyways and none of them have a synergy.
Heck, the only perks that explicitly and directly increase the time it takes to complete a gen are thanataphpbia and dying light. The rest either regress or block gens instead.
Gen regression doesn't stack and is temporarily halted with blocked gens, so on a fundamental level the only gen stall perks that could properly stack even in principle are those 2.
Dying light and thanataphobia have direct anti-synergy due to Dying Lights heal speed bonus on the obsession. So they don't stack well.
So that just leaves those 2 perks being stacked with one of the regression or blocking perks. And neither dying light nor thanataphobia has high enough numbers for that to be a problem.
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That's funny. You argue that you have thousands of hours and then say "Just because devs do this for a living" and "just playing since release" ... "doesn't mean anything". Good point bro, consolidates your arguments.
Just as a hint: you pretty much just say "counter arguments are not right because I disagree". And the scenarios you describe are pretty superficial. Just showing the one case that fits your POV to base your arguments on? There's a FunGoose that never runs addons and did a 100+ 4-kill streak. Yay, so what? Now everyone isn't allowed to use addons? FunGoose isn't the only killer in this community and not the best reference for the average.
"Relying on slowdown perks"? You could say that to every single build. As soon as you pick a perk, you are relying on it. You choose it for that reason, you want to make use of it. Meaning that two tracking perks should also not be allowed because you "rely" on tracking while not every killer does?
Tofu said about Pop that he doesn't like it because he doesn't like to kick gens, as you potentially let go of chases and chasing is the better map pressure in his opinion. And that counts for every player, make use of Pop and give survivors a head start. Save time on gen, waste time on chase. This is playstyle depending, one prefers this, others prefer that. The key is to adapt once you notice the heavy slowdown. Team up, pressure gens or attract the killer if you know there is a nearby gen being worked on, to distract him.
But the easier way is of course to shout out for nerfs.
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To add more to your statement of Pop being playstyle dependent, I'll swap it up depending on the killer I'm playing, I'll run Pop if I'm going to play a highly mobile killer as I know I'll be able to make up the chase time easily, but on any other killer I'd rather just take the chase.
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Limiting players in what they choose to use in perks would be a bad idea and limits creativity.
The devs already arbitrarily limit creativity with the various cooldowns and restrictions on some perks, we don't need anymore restrictions than what we already got.
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Stacking slowdown really isn't as good as most people seem to think. Thana absolutely SUCKS, no matter the killer, it just sucks slightly less on certain killers. Ruin and Pop don't work together. Surge is awful and only exists to be paired with Surveillance. Dying Light is somehow worse than Thana. Sloppy is good, but it doesn't work well with other slowdown perks, since it only injures you and you can easily play while injured, and even with Thana/Dying Light it's pretty bad for 3 perk slots. Corrupt Intervention is okay, and I guess you could call it a regression perk, but I'm never worried when I see a blocked gen at the start of a match. It's super easy to stealth out and/or sneak behind the killer. And it also works poorly with Ruin. Overcharge honestly doesn't even count as a slowdown perk: It's tied with Huntress Lullaby as one of the worst perks in the game.
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SWF just find a locker and wait out corrupt.
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Imagine using DS + unbreakable + soul guard + borrowed time. Oh wait... This is the "red ranks" experience
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The max amount is 16 so that's a gross exaggeration the only map I'd consider exceeding the numbers are Hawkins and maybe ormond but definitely Hawkins.
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corrupt doesn't last all game, same as Ruin ^^ All of the gen perk are quite balanced and none are overpowered (except Pop on high mobility/lethality killers such as spirit or Nurse)
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The point is that there's too many pallets in most maps. If you can drop them instantly with zero consequences, there are too many. Most maps should be capped at 10, and don't tell me that's not enough because one of the swamp missions has 7 total.
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