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Facecamping Bubba is Uncounterable
Comments
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So camping Bubba turns killer gameplay into survivor gameplay, eh?
Lemme explain:
They had one or two chases in the match, stood in one place, maybe holding a button and interacting with no one, made the other side's game a bore/frustrating and then out perked the survivors in the end.
Interesting how that works...
In all seriousness though, there should be some sort of action speed buff related to hook proximity under certain conditions, so survivors can finish gens quicker if a teammate gets hard facecamped like that. Maybe if the killer refuses to leave the hooked person the buff gets faster and totems get their aura revealed too. It will give time to do gens and do bones.
I like NOED as an andgame boost. it can be especially devastating when you're actually good and pressure survivors during the match. But its waaaay too passive. I think NOED should apply exposed only to survivors you've hooked throughout the match and for every survivor hooked you get 1% bonus speed at the end for a total of 4%. That way you can't just be useless all game and then expect NOED to help secure kills at the end, but it still remains a high risk, high reward hex totem that gives you a power boost at the end.
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No, actually, but their own admission and behaviour they clearly change the most common issues first, regardless of the ease that others could be addressed.
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Not on its own, yes. But rarity together with impact. If a rare situation is actually game breaking, it needs to be considered. But a face camping bubba is surely not, thats not a bug / glitch, no bannable offense, it's just an unfavored playstyle. So as I said, it's rare to play against a bubba face camping from the start, its extremely rare to play against a player that ALWAYS face camps with bubba, and on top of that, the player is not even doing anything wrong.
The op more or less asked for a technical solution to prevent the extremely rare all-the-time face-camping bubbas from playing the way they are doing. And thats exactly the non-issue I'm seeing. I already doubt that there is even one player always playing face-camping bubba on a regular basis, bc thats just extremely boring and a waste of time.
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The solution would be Borrowed time not being melted with several ticks from the chainsaw. As it is the invisibility frames from borrowed time do nothing against his chainsaw.
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The main problem here wasn't the facecamp - it was the facecamp into NOED. Sure, if someone's facecamping then you can do gens and leave, but even the "Do BoNeS" excuse doesn't come into play. You don't have the time. It takes a free kill, and doubles it. THATS the real issue.
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So cheap two kills, yeah. But thats still not against any rule. The killer won't get much points or pip, you likely won't get much points or pip, it's essentially like a red mori game with a tunnel-mori killer. Or a bit lika against EW3 Tombstone Myers. The latter two take a bit more skill though, i give you that.
I still think this is not an urgent issue, since it's still very rare. Since the thread is about "no counterplay", let me point out what you could do in this situation:
The noed totem would be top priority, but you do not have the time to cleanse totems before and surely not after finishing a gen, since bubba can see you with bitter murmur. So you should try to play against the latter. All but one could hide in locker while the last one pops the final gen. Bubba will only see this one and chase him. If lucky, he can juke him with the aura, distortion could help (if there are still tokens left), or using a head on play (killer sees them going into the locker and heads there). The other(s) would be needed to open gate.
Sure, no hard counter, but there's still some things you can do if you are assume that the face camper likely playes bitter murmur and noed.
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No joke though. It be wicked if they changed how a survivor is sacrificed to the Entity. Like cages but maybe Entity Boxes that work like PH Cages. Entity teleports them if she senses a facecamper
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You mistake "hard" for "unreasonable," and "urgent" for "difficult to solve." The solution is easy - take away the biggest problem perk in the killers arsenal. There's literally dozens of ideas that keep getting floated around for what NOED could do. It's not hard to change a few values around. It really isn't. However, it's against the Devs policy because... Honestly, there's no legitimate reason. It's just against company policy.
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Another day, another facecamping Bubba.
This seriously kills all the fun and makes me stop playing dbd for the rest of the day.
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bubba can counter BT with insidious and even if he doesn’t, he can two tap through BT with the chainsaw now
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As a facecamping bubba main with ~4k chainsaw downs, which is top 30 on the dbd.onteh.net.au leaderboards, I wholeheartedly agree with this post and have 4k’d (excluding hatch) >50 games in a row at one stage with this strategy. I’ve even beat coordinated premades with thousands of hours who actually tried to do gens - If you get the first down early enough (actually worked better with old bubba in a way as everyone greeded vs him) - the gens just don’t go fast enough, and NOED has zero counterplay.
2k is pretty much the minimum like you said, I only consider 4ks excluding key/last man hatch escapes wins though. 1k is insanely rare and would only happen if the survivors played super well/safe and you didn’t get your first down until you’d lost 3 gens, plus they’re a 4 man. I’ve never 0k’d doing this for obvious reasons.
My personal build is BBQ (points, since I 4k of games, and good aura reading when it’s a 1v3/the gens are done), Bamboozle (best chase perk), Insidious (tbh I just run this for the memes, I’d run monitor for practicality perhaps), NOED (unfair dumb perk, no counterplay to it with this strategy when the counterplay as hard enough in general)
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Irrespective of the fact it’s pretty much impossible to make a bubba tantrum with fakes, he can two tap through BT now anyway, even has enough time through DH, so the unhooked guy has to have sprint burst or he is dead
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Except three gens are done when the first chase ends.
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Do you find joy in ruining the fun for others?
Is your life intensely vapid and miserable that ''winning'' is your only source of happiness for you?
Do you find yourself terribly alone that you go for the negative reactions from others as a means of silencing that loneliness?
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Do you find joy in ruining the fun for others?
I think the post game chat is ######### hilarious and it's a good meme, yes - I'd also say Corrupt/Pop Freddy, Stridor Spirit, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, and anyone with a mori are even more unfun to go vs this, albeit while it's subjective, I've found a lot of people I have camped and asked about this agree and actually say they had more fun vs me than this kind of game. Do you think they are ruining the fun for others by playing 'boring' killers? I certainly don't have fun going vs that #########.
Is your life intensely vapid and miserable that ''winning'' is your only source of happiness for you?
I can win just as easily and frequently as anyone else, it's just higher effort, I don't do it to win, I just find it overpowered because you can win just as consistently with little effort.
Do you find yourself terribly alone that you go for the negative reactions from others as a means of silencing that loneliness?
I think insidious bubba is the funniest meme in dbd and the post game chat and steam comments make it fulfilling. You mention loneliness - but I'd actually say camping is a super social thing for me. I've met a number of great twitch streamers who I still regularly watch and have befriended from facecamping them and having a laugh, aswell as the fact I pretty much never camp by myself, but usually in a discord call screensharing where it's pretty chill, funny and we can laugh over the postgame chat.
Can't say I think your takes on the way I play are any good, but I can understand where they come from. You seem like the kind of guy who gets upset by tbagging/flashlight clicking I imagine though.
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He is my main killer (was before the buff), but I will say his chainsaw chain is bloody powerful. Unless you are lucky to get a pallet or a vault, a lot of the times you're history (barbecued and lightly seasoned history).
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You realize you didn't answer my question about your lonely life and said yes about finding joy in ruining the game for others.
''and the post game chat and steam comments make it fulfilling. You mention loneliness - but I'd actually say camping is a super social thing for me''
Thank you for proving all my points about you.
It's sad that there are humans like you who enjoy doing these things. Hiding behind words like memes can't disguise the fact that your life needs reevaluating, knowing your playstyle I'm willing to bet your friends (if you still have any) don't like playing with you.
Feel free to laugh at this like you enjoy reading all the comments on Steam.
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The only time I feel like camping when playing Bubba is when I come across toxic or sweaty survivors. I don't know what exactly they expect when they teabag a Bubba or clicky clicky. They get thrown on hook, get their 6k bp for trying, rejoin the 5-10 minute que and can make posts like these. Other than that, its not that often I have run into them and when I do he ends up only getting a 2k usually because the other survivors just escape. People just need to learn that BT isn't going to help you and just because you destroy the NOED totem doesn't mean you will get the safe unhook.
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So Noed-Bitter murmur combo is problematic, but DS-Unbreakable is totally fine? Thats some nice bias, don't you think?
But whatever, remove Noed, but don't forgot to remove Adrenaline as well. Or lets rework both:
Noed: For every hook you do you get a token. During end game, you can insta-down one survivor for the expense of three tokens. Tokens are not spent when an injured surv is downed. That would give you at most three downs, and prob. no extras effect for face campers, since they should get at most two hooks. I would say you could even throw the hex part away, since you would have to work for your noed. BUT, the issue with every skill based noed rework is, the better you perform, you lesser you need noed at all.
Adrenaline: Get either health state or sprint burst, but not both.
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Feel free to laugh at this like you enjoy reading all the comments on Steam.
Your response was even more ######### than expected, was indeed a good laugh, thanks!
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The FLAVOUR
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How often do you get these? I love being camped by Bubbas, but I only get like one per 1-2 months. What rank do you play in regularly?
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Another day, another thread on DBD where over half the commenters don't comprehend what they're reading in the OP 😐
If a Bubba gets a fast down in the beginning, there really isn't that much of a counter. He is 100% guaranteed a kill against the first poor soul, and maybe even a 2k or 3k if he gets even just slightly luckier- from winning one or two chases during the game. New Bubba can down people VERY QUICKLY- You might be able to get 3 gens done by the time you have the first person dead on hook (in a 4 man SWF on comms so that they IMMEDIATELY know to stay on gens instead of coming to save) but the NOED+Bitter Murmur combo (maybe even with Discordance to immediately know what gen to go to as soon as first person is dead) will get at least one or two other people in the end because you can't complete the other two gens AND find all the totems in time to get out. Even if it doesn't take long to cleanse a singular totem, the time waster part of about them is that they are much more difficult to locate than gens, and can often in areas that take you away from the main objective.
Even if you do all the math and factor out the time it takes to travel to each gen, travel to each totem, etc., you still don't have enough time to complete every objective in the 4-6 minutes it takes for a Bubba to facecamp 2 survivors to death. You don't have to be Otz level to get a down early on in the game, unless you're unlucky enough to go against a team of incredibly good survivors. Also, if you equip Ruin, you further your chances of gens not getting done in time as the chases before you down someone will naturally take you by gens that are being worked on, forcing them off even for just a little while and adding more time to their rush to get out.
Survivors have to come equipped with toolboxes to improve their chances of escape- which of course happens... but the chances of the whole team bringing purple toolboxes with wire spool+BNP and getting matched with Evil Bubba is low.
And for those who say this rarely happens, I can only assume that you rarely play survivor. I have only been playing since January and I have run into Bubbas who play this way DOZENS of times- even at higher ranks. In fact, it's even more lethal at higher ranks because good Bubbas who decide to play this way for whatever reason can end their first chase quite quickly more often than not.
Personally, I dont really care THAT much. It's kind of funny when it happens, if not extremely annoying just as often. I do care that this isn't a strategy that is exclusive to Bubba (he just happens to be the most efficient at making sure his first down STAYS hooked if he wishes) as other killers can face camp with varying levels of success and still make the game miserable for the survivors at the end because they couldn't both get all totems+finish all gens as efficiently as possible. Despite it being more common than some people here believe, it is rare enough at higher ranks that it isn't a huge issue imo
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Common scenario? No. For several reasons, 1 I said a GOOD 4man SWF. You dont meet those every game. 10-20% maybe more depending on luck. And additionally it happens mostly based on the survivors RNG spawn. If they all spawn together then 1-2 gens at most will fly. If they spawn "all over" the map then yeah 3 gens will fly, even vs good solos.
You know why? Because survivors often spawn ontop of a gen. Thats 0-5 sec of travel time. Killers often have to get lucky to find survivors. They can narrow it down with experience but there are no guarantees. So I would argue that a lot of killers take between 10-30 seconds (sometimes a lot longer if the survivors snuck behind the killer to where he spawned). If 4 survivors are all sitting on a gen then its not impossible for the first gen to get done before the killer even finds them. Its unlikely but it happens.
But lets say you find a survivor within 10 seconds, he was alone on a gen. This is probably bad, because this means the survivors are spread out across several gens(this happens VERY often). Ok Bubba starts chasing this survivor (remember in this scenario its a very good survivor 4man), but unless he is caught in the middle of a Dead Zone (something good survivors won't do) he most likely wont die to the chainsaw and if he does die to it, it will still take a while because of windows and pallets. So as long as the survivor spawned with a couple of tiles nearby/around him I would say it at least will take Bubba 40-60 seconds to down the man, and possibly another 10 to get him to a hook. Thats at least 60 seconds of play time. And yes it will take the survivors 20-25 seconds more to complete the gens but 3 gens will fly. This scenario is not that uncommon man. And I would argue that if a Bubba is as focused on his Face camping as you claim, that it should happen more often.
I will say it again in a slightly less meme version this time. Learn to loop a killer like Bubba(essentially just do windows and drop pallets early if you feel like it), and tell your team to ignore you and do gens because you are dead if you get caught.
Ofc if a survivor runs into a deadzone instead of a strong tile (it happens to the best of us), then yeah it might be a 2k but it still shouldnt ever be more than that if the survivors are trying.
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Manners my friend. You can point out my whataboutism (which you are absolutely correct with btw) without calling me names! I just had a feeling you are one of them who sees everyhing the killer has as problematic and every problematic thing the survivors have as totally fine. Sorry for that. Btw, I do not have a problem with DS/UB, so it's certainly "NOT JUST MY PROBLEM" you are claiming I wrote about.
The thing is, you wrote "The solution is easy - take away the biggest problem perk in the killers arsenal.". If you want to remove Noed, which I wouldn't really mind, you have got to do something about Adrenaline, bc they are some kind of counterparts. Also, just taking something away bc there is an unfavourable edge case where it is "abused" is a pretty bad solution, imo. To come back to DS//UB example, taking away one of them to remove the combo would be pretty stupid as well.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Do Gens
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No, I don't regret a single word I wrote. I dislike people like you that make assumptions, strawman and put words into people's mouths. Take a reality check before you tell me what I think, what I use or how I play.
Edit: And don't try to take the high road and call out my manners - You quite literally lied about what I said and called me biased because if it.
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as FaceClownper and BubbaCamper I can tell you it IS counterable, what you gotta do is:
- sync with the other survs to run around for the unhook
- play with unhooking action to prevent a catch (stopping the process, spamming to unhook, etc)
- from (1) and (2) furthermore equip DS and BT, thats all
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do gens
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Ummm... you kind of undermine your own point. If the Bubba left the hook to go down more people, that is the very OPPOSITE of camping. You could have worked to 99 the other gate, gone for the rescue, done any number of things. The fact that the Bubba leaves the hook (at any time) shows he is NOT camping.
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What I ment is that he knew we were very far to be able to reach the hooked survivor thanks to Bitter Murmur so he can save 10-20 seconds by abandoning the hooked victim so he can reach us before we can escape
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Please read my post before commenting.
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Please read my post before commenting.
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by doing that the killer wont rank up and will probably stay at quite a low rank.
But for the games that your actually in the game with bubba. you could run camaraderie to increase the surviviors time on the hook. You could run several aura blocking perks to counter bitter murmur, you could do totems to counter NOED you could use items like toolboxes or gen related perks to decrease the time needed on gens. take keys, exhaustion perks so he cant reach you while your friends open the gate.
There are a lot of counters to this, and even if all of these wont work, some will. Get to high ranks and you wont face them
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And your point is what, he was a good player? The aura snapshot given by that Perk do not come with a range finder. He had no idea how far away everyone was or not. He took a gamble. If your problem is with Perks that reveal position, that is a horse of a different color. It has nothing to do with a Camping Bubba.
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"...you wont face them" *very often*
They still exist in high ranks they are just really rare. And perks are a bad argument for counters. Unless its something you are able to do in every game (and no one runs specific perks every game). That would be like saying "You dont like OoO? Just run Third Seal or blindness add-ons." or "Dont like flashlights just run lightborne". As long as you can do it in every game (have the option to do it rather) then yeah. And doing gens is something you can always do against a camping Bubba. Its not fun but hey ######### happens. Next game.
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Well DBD is inherently flawed from the get-go. you can use the "you wont face them very often" argument on bubba and sweaty swf squads alike. ######### happens. This game will never be balanced and with the addition of a killer every 3 months situations like this are going to arise. The problem is finding a solution that works within the restraints of the killers power that works for both survivor and killer palyers. Making it so hooked survivors are sent to a far away cage doesnt make sense to bubbas power, as a powerful aspect of his power is defending hooks. If you have it so bubba has to be a certain distance away theyll just stand just outside of that zone and the problem would still be as apparent as ever.
Granted people can abuse this by facecamping, but removing the availability of it altogether is stupid.
I think its on of those things where people just have to suck it up and get onto the next match. It lasts maybe 5 or 10 minutes and then with the amount of killers in the game your unlikely to go against it again. There are still meta perks that counter this, not unmeta perks like third seal like you suggest, but perks that a lot of survivors run on a regular basis. Thats what you gotta do as killer when u go against a sweaty swf squad, take the L and move on.
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If he tantrums or uses all charges he can’t chainsaw them and at that point if he still chases them down he isn’t camping anymore he is tunneling and that’s a whole different topic I’m just saying with the new changes it’s much easier to get a rescue now cuz he can’t hold saw forever he will have to either chainsaw sprint at you so be ready for that or straight up tantrum losing all stacks
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if he tantrums or used all charges somehow when camping, he ######### up insanely bad. I main this ######### and I've never had this issue bar vs SB. You still literally cannot rescue vs this playstyle if the killer has half a braincell
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I've faced them, and I've countered them. I've used tons of the methods already listed in this LONG thread. There are lots of Killers that are good at camping, some of them much better than Bubba. The Hag might be the reigning QUEEN of basement camping, and she doesn't even have to give up hunting other people down while she does it. Just because something is hard, or you are playing a VERY good Bubba, doesn't mean it can't be countered.
I love playing Scratch Mirror Myers. I had a Survivor go off on me and tell me that build can't be countered on certain maps. I said, I beg your pardon, but I've gotten my butt handed to me in the Meat Plant and at Lerys. The Survivors quickly realized I was a Spooky Myers and went VERY aggressive. The point is, I'm pretty darn good at Spooky Myers (I can even win on larger maps now) and I've still get curb stomped from time to time even when conditions are optimal for me.
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he has no choice in the matter if he is revving his chainsaw to camp as you run at the hook and back revving to not sprint at you until you unhook he will tantrum But like are you saying you know this stuff cuz you do all this?
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I literally see nothing wrong with 2k. In 100 matches if it averages out to 2k I'd say its a perfectly balanced game.
Also, the coutner to NOED is to clear totems, not gen rush. You can afford the 20 seconds.
Yes, Kindred is a legitimate resposne to camping. Anytime you run a full match with no one running Kindred or some other killer tracking perk it's your fault. The game isn't about everyone running DS/UB/BT/DH to make any kind of interaction miserable.
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If I may, BT no longer works well vs camping Bubba. He has such a long chainsaw duration that he can, and has, caught people that were hit with BT and downed them again with one chainsaw use. I got 2/3 across the map with the right addons. Using those addons, I was able to down 3 members of the party in one use. We were on Temple of Purgation. The first was by the killer shack; FP triggered and showed one at the end of the jungle gym near the killer shack. I downed her and made my way up the temple, catching the third who ran from the gen. No BT will outlast that.
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Camaraderie? Really?
Distortion only has 3 tokens, they will be gone by the third gen/BBQ
There isn't enough time to remove totems
I can't bring keys and tool boxes every game
Please argue with reason instead of spouting nonsense without reading my post
I repeat
Read the OP
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Who of us is making assumptions now? I did make one assumption, which I acknowledged and said sorry for. I certainly did NOT tell you what you ahve to think or hwo to play, thats an assumption and strawman from your side.
And I can totally call out your manners if you go totally overboard with it:
"whattabouting prick" (name calling), "stop being immature" (assumption / condescending), "THERE ARE MORE THAN JUST YOUR PROBLEMS" (I do not even say or imply somthing like this), "stop being childish" (see above), "dislike people like you that make assumptions, strawman and put words into people's mouths" (assumption about my intentions from a single sly comment of mine), "Take a reality check" (condescending).
Quite some rambling for a single incident in which I implied your biasedness (my only fallacy in this whole "discussion", btw). I even tried to bring it back to the topic, TWO TIMES, but you totally ignored that. So to put it with your very own words:
"you could stop being childish stay focused on the issue at hand, thank you."
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Don't go down. EZ counter.
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I honestly wanted it to be like that, but maybe it was my bad luck that I got 3 facecamping bubba's in a single saturday. What's wrong with people these days? hahaha
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I mean I guess. But thats just blatantly false. You meet a ton of SWF in any ranks. What you dont meet that often are the "Tournament squads" or the "Mega Sweat 4man SWF". If you watch anyone streaming this game for hours on end, you will watch maybe 1-2 games where people play against those kind of survivors. You will meet casual SWF, good SWF, Meme SWF and once in a while the mega tryhards that are acting like they are playing for the first place in a tournament.
But just meeting SWF doesnt mean a thing. You will meet those in like half your games just not necessarily people that are insane at the game and not always 4mans.
In any case I mainly play killer and while its goddamn frustrating when you do meet those people, its not like its the biggest deal. 5 min game, on to the next one or go watch a movie or something. Unless devs decide to do something there isn't much to be done about it. Beyond playing like spirit/nurse at a master level.
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yes, I do this and that's how I know. The bar does not increase when you're not holding M2, and drains really fast when the saw isn't charging, it is extremely easy to manage the saw in this situation
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Then I ain’t arguing with someone who doesn’t know how to play the game yet I’m sorry 😂
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