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Devs, what is the counter of the Spirit?
I have 2,000 hours in this game and I really feel a bit silly because I will never be able to escape from a spirit... could you tell me the counter to start applying it?
This is assuming the spirit has stridor, refrain from "Iron Will" comments.
I really hope your answer devs. 🤗
Summary: It does not exist, you can't counter that.
Seriously, why hasn't this killer received his due nerf? He has almost the same capacity as the nurse, however you don't need to spend more than 50 hours just to be completely lethal.
God nurse: Needs 300~400 hours (dedicated just for this killer).
- It requires you to learn muscle memory to use blinks.
- You have to carefully manage your power.
- Missing an attack with power has punishment.
God Spirit: Needs 20~50 hours (dedicated just for this killer).
- Just buy some good headsets, the power takes you 2 hours to control.
- She isn't punished for failing his power.
- She don't need to have experience to play mindgames, just stay still.
I'm main nurse with about 400 hours only to her, I have no problems with a nurse passing over me (deserved?, so many hours I see it fair), but that a Spirit with 50 hours in the game passes over my 2,000 hours I can't make sense of it.
I'm really waiting for an answer, How do I counter Miss Mechanics?
Comments
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Think of it this way: You know how in fighting games, some of the best players get into the competition's head by conditioning them to expect certain outcomes for certain actions? Spirit is dbd's embodiment of that idea. The only issue is that Stridor or the lack of Iron Will make it less about conditioning and predicting your opponent and more about the Spirit's ability to listen closely. If she couldn't hear you during phase, she would be a near perfectly designed killer imo, but she is incredibly one sided in her current state.
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I never understood this false sense of godhood around spirit..I keep even stridor spirits occupied just by playing different than I would against other killers, I think honestly people arnt trying at all
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Use windows, Use pallets, do not try to loop her as if she's trapper. If you see her standing still don't fall for the bait and just move to the next loop. If you get downed after a teleport while standing out in the open....you were gonna get downed anyway.....for being out in the open.
But yeah she's easy to loop, easy to avoid, just use pallets and windows which pretty much negate her power, and yes, that means drop pallets early.
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I agree, either apply a punishment to her ability so she doesn't spam multiple times during a matter of seconds OR just make iron override stridor eliminating any possible counterplays (Tru3 fans, please refrain from replying because you are braid dead).
Although am not a fan of needing to have this exact perk to counter that exact killer, but it's a start.
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Iron will still makes you quieter though. I'd rather have 50 percent less noise than 50 percent more noise
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Okay, so you tell me that it is a mind game, how do I play in your simulator ?, because as far as I know these games are based on the information that your opponent gives you.
At what point does Spirit offer me information?
The nurse offers me information and from it I can do mindgames in the structures.
As a main nurse I have to study the survivor and bet what he will do (will he go straight or turn around?).
With the Spirit she just disappears, she doesn't offer any information but she does receive information about me... so that it was a mind game?
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My personal opinions:
- Don't fall for a Spirit that is standing still, some stand still pretending to phase and just let you come to them.
- Avoid fast vaults as much as possible, you want to give her as little information as possible to work with while she is phasing.
- Don't worry about wasting pallets against her, don't be afraid to put them down early. You can put down a pallet but don't run through it to put it down, most spirits will think that you put it down as you ran through it, but instead you put it down and walk away from it in the exact opposite direction so as not to leave scratch marks. Spirit will usually phase to where she expects you to be, on the other side of the pallet, but you've already walked a good distance away before she realizes and she now has to wait on her phase to recharge, giving you time to get to another pallet or T-L wall or whatever and treat her as a normal mouse 1 killer for awhile.
There is definitely less counterplay once you are injured, since stridor counters Iron Will.
I personally think they should either reduce stridor to a 25% boost for both breathing and injured sounds, or give spirit a -25% to injured sounds while phasing, so that you're only making 25% noise with Iron Will instead of 50% while she is phasing, but that is just me. Other than that, Spirit needs no changes imo, not a fan of proposals that would nerf her too much since she is one of the few killers who can properly take on a high rank SWF currently.
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SWF is definitely another topic, but my complaint is because she is so easy to play.
Let the spirit have the same lethality, well.
The problem is how long it takes you to get that lethality.
Even freddy is OP because of her teleportation but he remains tied to the fact that he must know how to do mindgames or they pass over her.
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There is no counterplay. I have 5k hours and I've played against many and used to main her while players still thot billy was better until I got bored of using her cheese. With the right perks she is pretty much unbeatable unless you, yes you, screw up. Has nothing to do with survivors.
You can try and mind game aka totally guess and hope she's dumb or doesnt hear footsteps very well. The thing with spirit is you can mess up a lot with very little penalty. And she's not hard to use. I relied solely on her phrasing. You don't need to run the tiles well at all. With strider and pop I rarely ever lost. The gen slow down was real. If the spirit knows to track the sound of footsteps you're going to lose. Like nurse, you're really only playing against yourself. Your best bet is playing against one that doesn't stack the best perks on her.
Killers thought nurse was balanced so they'll never admit spirit is broken either.
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Calling people brain dead when you mispell brain doesnt make you look like you have room to talk..just saying
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In most fighting games, there are legit moments/scenarios where people are forced to guess or lose - (IE in SFV, Mika's F.HP is +3 - If you block it, you have to guess whether she will S.MP/S.HP [you block] or go for a Command Grab [you jump/backdash]...there are no tells).
Overwatch also has scenarios like this that can win/lose fights - (IE Guessing when someone is going to use a stun and using Reaper's Wraith move to avoid it or keeping your own stun up if you guess they have ult but it never happens).
In DBD, people get upset (mostly at Stridor Spirit, I assume) even though they're already put into an unfavorable position (injured) by the 'power role,' and they've brought a perk (Stridor) to help them with that exact scenario.
The real problem, I feel, is that her power is actually useful in a chase:
Every killer that is currently being complained about (Freddy/Spirit/Pyramid Head/Death Slinger) all have powers that help them in chase / drastically cut down on chase times.
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The problem Spirit has at the moment is that she can hear you while phasing, and that kinda defeats this entire idea behind "mindgaming the opponent". If she couldn't then you would have 3 tools to play with: Information, lack of information, and habits. Spirit can see your scratch marks while phasing. While that's normally good for her, you could use that to feed her misinformation. For example, you could leave scratch marks towards a direction and go the other direction. You could also condition her to assume you are going a specific way. I suck at explaining these things, so here's a video all about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PElmAFZFoqQ
I'm pretty sure that's what the devs intended when they designed the killer, but they overlooked the existence of audio and made her absolutely awful instead.
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No because scratches arnt reliable, they didn't overlook anything in that regard..if she couldnt hear her power would be nothing but guess work where survivors control the chase completely..that's just non sensical
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For someone with supposed 5k hours you dont seem to know a whole lot regarding spirit tbh
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When she's standing still near you, it's most likely she's faking it. Try to make as much distance as possible away from her while walking in the opposite direction. If you're in a chase and you know for a fact that she's phasing, then keep running then immediately start walking in a direction that she least expects, whether it's back through the direction you ran from (ie. running through your own scratch marks) or walking to another safer area that has pallets/windows. During these situations, it's important that you run Iron Will and/or Spine Chill since they both give good counters to Spirit's Phase. That's why I always run the 2, they're pretty much great against every killer.
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Stridor doesnt make a spirit good I've handled stridor spirits by guessing correctly. You have yet to go against a good spirit who understands the power.
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Look at nurse, oni, billy. They have chase powers they arent complained about. Oni in blood fury can get an easy down any flick billy who is experienced can cut the chase down significantly, and nurse is just.... nurse.
The aforementioned killers except freddy he has counterplay they just need to adjust his snare setting and give him like a movement debuff. Anyways they have really poorly designed chase powers that make sure your input doesnt really matter.
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Nurse and Billy are pretty rare after their reworks...which were done because their powers were complained about.
People don't complain about Oni because he has to 'earn' his power with a single M1 (although there are topics/videos that appear complaining about Oni wiping teams in minutes with Infectious Fright, and his 'bug' that dropped 2x blood orbs while injured survivors did actions was recently 'fixed.').
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T H I N K
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I mean if during phase she couldn't hear you how exactly would you catch a survivor during a chase?He will either simply run back to his previous scratch marks or he will start walking instead of sprinting
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Ahh finally,a person that says spirit actually has counterplay.
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Galaxy Brain: Run Diversion. Throw a pebble.
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Your team needs to do the unthinkable and hold the dreaded M1button and the occasional space on generators while you waste as much time as you can.
This is a 4v1 game after all.
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She has to guess where the survivor is given the information she has (scratch marks, where they were heading prior to phase, what direction it would make sense for them to go towards). The survivor has to guess where the killer is going to go given the information they have (how long has she been standing still, what has she done before, how long would it take for her to get to you).
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Regardless they are still.both strong I started palying Billy again and boy double engraving flick billy is the most fun thing in the game rn. Nurse she can be annoying but unlike spirit has tells and has counterplay.
Good onis wipe teams it's fair they are good.
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Or perhaps there are many survivors who dont understand..food for thought
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Realise that in a fighting game, you're both on a mostly level playing field, and get several chances to learn what your opponent does and it's also the entire point of the game. In DbD you get like, 2 chances the entire match, and a survivor is nowhere near on the same level as the killer.
Billy, Demo, Huntress, Pig, Bubba, Trapper actually every killer has a power that helps them in chases but you wanna know the difference these killers have over the ones mentioned? They actually have some counterplay to them, meaning an actual learning curve, and the survivor also has a learning curve against them. If the survivor plays against a decent demo or Huntress the same way they play against, say, a Trapper, they're gonna get stomped. But if they learn how to play against these killers, they have some chance to last in a chase longer than 10 seconds. The killer also has options to outplay the survivor even if they're a really good one. With spirit there is no learning curve, you don't care what the survivor does because they have no idea what you're currently doing. All they can do is guess, and all you have to do as the spirit is hold M2 and run up to them using a pair of headphones. This isn't fun for either side, it's boring as hell.
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I am a p3 spirit with all perks. I bought a 160$ headset. I rely solely on it. That and scratch marks. Iron will is not a counter. (I can hear you running.) The best counter to spirit, and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it, is Fixated. A very underrated perk. (I can't hear you walking.)
Also, STAY OUT OF THE GRASS!!!
And if you're on the exit gate, and you hear phasing, GET OFF THE EXIT GATE!! EASY GRAB!
don't blow up gens and stay on it. If you're on a two person gen, and you blow it up, I have a 50% chance of an easy grab if you stay on it.
If you hear phasing as soon as the game starts, it's a spirit with prayer beads. If you can hear phasing sound, you're safe. Also, Spine chill can counter a prayer bead spirit as well as it can any other stealthy killer.
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Stealth. Not every killer should have an obvious counter during a chase. Nurse and Spirit have to know where you are, and if they don't, they cant down you with their powers.
It is kind of obvious but nobody likes to hide.
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You're right, survivors outnumber the killer 4 to 1. Therefore they should be balanced as 4 vs 1, not 1v1,
Also if you only get 2 changes to interact with the killer, thats a lot more a you problem. Spirit does not have an instadown, so 3 hooks would be at minimum 4 interactions, exponentially more based on healing. Obviously getting left on hook/camped/etc can happen, but maybe ask yourself "why" it happens.
I don't know why i bother coming to these topics anymore. Its always just a "no counterplay" pity party, and any actual suggestions get turned into "It's not a guaranteed escape, so I wont acknowledge it."
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The difference is the hours, to reach the maximum potential of the nurse requires hundreds of hours, the spirit requires dozens.
But in efficiency are they quite the same.
eh? something is wrong right?
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But they both still have to find you first. Whether or not Spirit is easy to learn is irrelevant when they use their power to end a chase, not start one.
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They don't reply Saturday's or Sundays.
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I honestly don't see a lot of people attempting to counter her at all as a red rank survivor, I think a lot of people are just lazy to attempt and switch up their regular runner playstyle.
Not many realize how tremendously difficult it is for a spirit to get you injured. You can stealth around her she's 110% looking for survivors will take much more time, you can walk in a path without bushes, and no the stridor normal "breathing" sound is only really heard when shes literally like 2-3m away from you, in which case she'd probably already have seen you.
As for when you're injured I still see people attempting to outrun her? Or run back at her as soon as she phases (because they think now that they're running over their own scratch marks spirits won't notice). But honestly the best way is to take an odd pathing.
Even on otz's and true's streams you'll notice they continiously go against red rank spirits yet manage to outplay her more than once.
Not every spirit is an A.I with perfect ears and headphones or whatever, you just wanna waste the most of their time before they find you, if they do.
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What kind of reasoning is this? Do you see how many killers there are? How many of them have varying playstyles? Require grinding out resources like perks and addons? how THOSE change said playstyles even more?
It sounds more like your core argument is "you should have to dedicate all of your time to a single killer to be successful with them" Which would be the worst possible thing for gameplay variety the game could possible have happen. Keep in mind, there is no training mode. There is no "casual matches." There is no way to try out various perks or addons until you invest the BP into getting them. Every match is trial by fire, so it takes a lot of losing while you learn how to maximize your advantages while minimizing your disadvantages in each match. Killers have to go through this from scratch with every single new killer they learn, while so many survivors refuse to do the same in return.
Want to learn how to counter spirit? play her constantly for a while. See what people do to trick you, or weaken the impact of your power. Learn from how they outplay you, and take that knowledge into your own survivor play. Its much more effective than making this topic for the 9000th time.
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Even though i get what you're saying,it would be insanely hard to track a survivor without any moaning sound.If you see a survivor running and you phase IF the survivor has more than 10 iq he will look behind him to see if you're chasing normally or phasing.At this point the survivor will simply keep walking so scratch won't appear and spirit will have to choose 4 different routes.She will either have to track only scratch marks which in that case it won't work or she'll have to guess where the survivor went which is almost impossible.
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Shes been put for more than a year maybe it's not the survivors maybe its the killer..food for thought.
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She doesn't have a counter.
It's never gonna happen since so many killers are devoted to trying to justify her gambling gameplay since she gives easy 4ks with little to no effort.
Most of the time I've seen them play the "small pp stridor build" but apparently not anybody wants to talk about that and just mention the survivor small pp buid, huh, ironic.
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It doesn't work like that.
Iron Will makes survivors 100% quieter. Stridor makes them 150% louder... meaning that at Tier 3 Stridor still makes them 50% louder even with Iron Will.
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You missed it a bit.
Their breathing is 50% increased, but their grunts is 25% louder.
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You said it!!!!! "unless you, yes you, screw up" Who's the power role. Survivor or Killer? If a Killer plays perfect and the Survivors play perfect the power role should win right?
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Throw pallet and run! That wirks when im killer.
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not being braindead is a good counter to spirit
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Considering people still self care against sloppy and thana legion..I'm sure its not..lol
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Dont die ez counter
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"I dont get it, i teabag at pallets when she isnt moving and I went down. This is obviously overpowered and should be removed from the game."
"Its wrong that i should have to be quiet, pallets and windows are useless because i cant loop her indefinitely at them"
"UGH SHE HAS NO COUNTERS SHE PUTS ON STRIDER AMD IT GIVES HER ONEHIT DOWNS INFINITE WALLHACKS AND THE POWER OF FLIGHT THIS IS SO UNFAIR"
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Some survivors.
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I just got through with 3 randoms self caring vs sloppy demogorgan my friend..I'd say its more than some..most used survivor perk in the game according to the devs themselves..that..speaks volumes..hence..it makes sense why there are so many outrageous ideas posted by the more 1 sided players..they dont see it all
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Sure that's your randoms I maybe find 1 or 2 randomw who are using self care nowadays. I think it just comes down to region. My point still stands spirit has been out for a minute and she still does not have solid counter. Ik pretty sure ohtofu even said something about spirit. Dont you find that odd.
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Not really considering people say that same thing about freddy..and some people say bbq should be a hex soo... .and counters in dbd means forcing the killer to loop forever or disable their power..not conducive to the games betterment..and if the killer isnt completely devouring swfs then I see no issue..well..maybe slinger..but he needs big changes to change that safely
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