Anti hook camping mechanics
Can we have some more protection from killers who camp within 10 metres of hooks and refuse to leave for chases or gens?
I understand camping hooks is not a strong strategy, and that if the rest of the team do gens then you will likely get out with 3 survivors.
However, my experience of playing online is that around half the killers I play against sit at the hooked survivor until he dies on hook.
Generally the hooked survivor gets frustrated and kills himself on the hook.
Someone on the team decides he wants to save and goes down and is then camped immediately after.
Even if the team decides to go for a 2 or 3 person save on the hooked survivor, unless the survivors are very good someone is going to go down for it because it is not easy to coordinate properly without communication.
I just think that given how much it ruins the entertainment of the game there should be a stronger incentive to leave hooks, or some stronger survivor mechanics to punish killers who do.
Generally speaking the players that are punished by hook camping are the less experienced ones, so I would argue that coordinated rescues aren't really viable as a solution.
In terms of suggestions, perhaps killers that are too frequently within terror radius of hook could receive a temporary slowness debuff, or the killer can't enter a chase within a certain range of a hooked survivor, or vaults can't be blocked within a certain range of hooked survivors.
I appreciate that some or all of these suggestions may have some big problems associated.
Comments
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Survivors want to survive. Killers want kills. Camping, while annoying for the person on the hook, is viable for killers that either A - Need to get a hook sacrifice for a daily or a challenge; or to draw out Survivors, because very rarely will someone not come try to save the hooked person. It's free BP for the killer; and if no one comes? It's 5k for the sacrifice. If you play, like me, with zero absolute care for pips and ranks (they're arbitrary and useless, only indicators of how well you play the game the way the Devs try to force you to play it) - then all you are playing for is bloodpoints/enjoyment.
Pips and ranks punish playing effectively in favor of playing the Dev's way of forced morality and "everybody play together nicely" instead of rewarding playing your role and completing your objectives (which for Survivors is not 'chase me, senpai'... it's doing totems and gens; as much as the Devs want it to be otherwise; and for Killers it is not 'okay I hit you now run away and patch up okay?'... but to kill, as much as the Devs want it to be otherwise. Killers are already punished in bloodpoint generation and pip progress for ensuring their victims die. Nothing else needs to be done about it - Survivors just need to either A - grow spines and deal with it; B - Do the generators and finish the match as quickly as possible to move on to another one; or C - Don't get caught, honestly.
You'll have toddlers -- excuse me, Survivors that disconnect or give up if they drop into struggle phase without anyone unhooking them, in a little temper tantrum. Toddlers that give up, will give up. Nothing can be done about that. The only stronger 'incentive' you can give is to vastly improve/uncap the bloodpoint generation for leaving hooked victims and chasing/hitting other survivors or damaging gens/pallets -- and by that point, you may as well just remove the objectives from this game if you're rewarding the killer for doing anything and everything under the sun except kill.
Also - camping removes 1 survivor from the equation and almost always, because Survivors are altruistic by nature and by desire for those delicious unhooking bloodpoints (and the perk requiring unhooks for bloodpoint bonuses), it will lead to getting more hits on other survivors with less annoying/irritating/ridiculously-one-sided looping/chases. And if that hooked victim dies? That's 1 less survivor to push the generators and swings the game in favor of the killer.
This game doesn't need more way to punish players for playing effectively (sneaking Survivors are punished too; it's a double-edged ######### ass sword). Screw the Devs and their 'party game' mentality with every feature/mechanic of the game being anything but a party game. If this were a 'party game', like they want there would be no levels/grind - just pick your perks and survivor skin/killer and play. And until any of that changes - you will always have campers, even more so because it's continually easier for Survivors to make mistakes/goof around when they play matches but killers almost always have to be hardasses or constantly on-edge when they're in their matches.
And before anyone states it - as killer, no, I play the Dev's baby gated playstyle until Survivors piss me off with annoying or trolling gameplay. Then I play toxic and screw their enjoyment. As Survivor - I do the gens; make the saves when it's plausible (a big concept many survivors cannot understand; not saving if it means putting myself in your place... that's just ######### stupid); and play the game as it is SUPPOSED to be played by its nature and descriptions --- trying to not get caught by the killer, to escape, and survive. Not toy with the killer and farm as many bloodpoints as I can in one match because of backwards ass hillbilly reward systems.
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Go up in ranks and you will probably stop seeing people trying to secure kills by camping, cuz they will need more survivors hooks to get medals and go up in ranks. If not, you gotta accept it, camping is a way of securing kills and a way of applying pressure on other 3 survivors. Killers can to do that to win the game, extend map dominance or just rush their quests, but they are penalized by it by being unable to get enough points for the medals already, no need to add anti hook mechanic.
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^^ This. Zero reason not to camp if you don't care about ranks. At that point, it's just personal choice and/or reaction base don annoyance/trollinig/toxic level of the Survivors you're up against.
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there are many powerful perks that reward not camping I.E devour hope. there isn't much else they can do. sorry this is happening to you
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The only anti hook camping mechanics that i can think is SWF
Like always that someone is camping and i am with 3 - 4 friends we just cordinate everthing and tryhard to escape as fast as we can to go to a match with an human
Like what do you have to do is ez if someone have an flashlight perfect you blind him and you see of one of this guys have bt
if you friends dont have one guy can just bodyblock and dead hard
And if you dont have friends you are just #########
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No? They can't slow Entity progression based on a killer's proximity to a hooked survivor? I can list a bunch of other things, but this seems to be the easiest and most fair solution.
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I understand a lot of the viewpoints people are posing here, and to an extent I do agree with a lot of them.
I should point out initially that the games I have been referring to here were games with red rank killers.
I also understand that the ranking system is fairly ineffective at determining skill, so for the most part I can expect to go against some red rank killers that still rely on proxi camping every hook.
One of the comments here made the point that people do camp hooks sometimes because it forces more altruistic survivors to join in on trying to get them off the hook. To which I would say that my point is that I would like the devs to consider a system where that may not be true.
For example, If hook progression is stopped when the killer is too close to the hook then by proxi camping you aren't forcing survivors to rescue at all. They could do all 5 gens then come to rescue together if needs be. Also during paused hook progression the survivor probably shouldn't need to press space to not die on hook, which means they can only kill themselves by disconnecting.
Maybe that would cause issues by some survivors forcing chases close to hook that would buy lots of time because during the chase the hooked survivor isn't progressing on hook.
I'm not claiming the game is killer sided, or that any buff to either side is warranted. I'm just looking to have the discussion officially so that views on the matter can be discussed and the devs can be made aware of ideas to make the game more enjoyable.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that relying on proxi camping to secure 1 or 2 kills is not fun for the killer or survivors.
Another issue I do see and can appreciate is in games where a killer is facing a swf squad and wants to secure a kill to save a pip.
Perhaps, if pausing hook progression was implemented in some way then it could be a mechanic reserved for before the last generator is finished.
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I do also appreciate the issue that in a game where the killer is behind it may be worth the killers time to camp a hook stage, or even one survivor to death, in order to make a comeback in the game.
I do not want to NERF killers to the point where if they lose tempo they have no hope of winning a game.
I do not claim that paused hook progression is the best solution, it is just one example that may have some merit. Feel free to add any ideas that you think could help the issue.
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While I feel the OP's pain, this isn't an easy issue. Punishing campers hasn't really worked, and will NEVER work because most newbie Killers just want a Kill; a bird in hand is better than two in the bush. Those of you who want Camping to go away... would you be thrilled if the Auras of the other Survivors were revealed to the Killer if they are more than say 32 Meters away for six seconds? And instead of taking points away from the Killer, do you want them to GET BP for every second they stay more than say 32 meters away from the Hook? :)
I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm pointing out that newbie Killers don't want to give up what they have unless they are heading toward something, a shot at more points rather than losing what little they got. Since deducting points for staying isn't really going to work, it might be time to try giving them points for leaving the area AND giving them a direction to go.
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I'm definitely in favour of a system that rewards killers for leaving a hook over a system that punishes them for staying.
I would argue revealing auras would be a detriment to the lower level community, some of who rely on playing immersed and avoiding the killer as much as possible.
As far as I know the developers want the game to be geared towards party play so anything that damages newcomers ability to play the game might not be the answer.
Bonus bloodpoints or increased generator kick regression while a survivor is hooked, I think are very reasonable ways to reward killers that leave hooks.
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True. That is why I say it isn't an easy issue. Newbie Killers are usually playing Newbie Survivors. Giving them away directly might not be the best thing but without a direction to go or a big boost for being brave... those Newbie Killers are staying put. BP as an enticement MIGHT work, but I think something else (even if it isn't other victim location) is required too.
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I suppose another thing to keep in mind is that if a system punished killers for staying at hook by making it harder to pip, then mechanically skilled killers that camp hooks for whatever reason would be pushed to lower ranks which would not be good for the health of the game at lower ranks.
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That would be abused by troll survivors just leading killers on chases within the 'range' of the hook to slow/stop progression. This would be an absolute nightmare on SWF games.
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The game does this - killers get less pip emblem progress for staying "too close" to their hooked victims. For people like me that care ZILCH about arbitrary "I played the Dev's way like a good boy" rankings; I hover around anywhere between 11-18 rank depending how much I play killer in a 'month'. Because I do not specifically try to rank. I play most of my matches casually - not toxic bp/emblem-progression-to-the-max; and weaving in and out around hooks while checking surounding areas punishes emblems naturally.
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So this is likely the danger I am referring to with punishing killers for staying by hooks. If hook camping killers are punished with rank regression then you end up with mechanically skilled killers terrorizing low rank lobbies, which is bad for the health of the game.
Perhaps that could work as an argument for emphasis to be placed more on things like winning chases to determine rank.
Bloodpoint generation could then be reduced for standing at hook, and increased for leaving hook.
That would mean there would be greater incentive for rank to leave hooks so that you can engage more chases.
Greater incentive for bloodpoint generation to leave hook.
Combining this with paused hook progression would leave no good reason to stay at hook Afaik.
The notable drawbacks I can see here are:
survivors running a killer near hook punish the killer by increasing the time taken for the survivor on hook to be sacrificed.
Killers who are not concerned with bloodpoints or rank would be fairly unaffected.
I suppose gen rushing may also be considered more toxic as it would reduce the amount of chases that the killer can engage in.
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Kindred. Anyone with a brain will stay on gens, the killer may panic and leave when they begin to pop.
If your teammates still crouch near the hook expecting him to leave any second then just leave the match.
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Many people might suggest kindred, but if the killer camps you on hook the other survivors will see this and will probably be less likely to free you, since they can do gens safely while being able to see exactly where the killers is across the map. My suggestion is use breakdown so even if you’re immediately downed you can’t be just immediately hooked again. Breakdown is really useful even when you’re not being camped since once unhooked you can see killers aura for a few seconds giving you the info to usually get away. The more survivors who use breakdown, the more useful it becomes
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My point is that I believe that the game should be tailored towards a state where disconnecting from a match isn't suitable advice.
I do agree that certain perks will help in situations where the killer wants to camp a person on hook, but if the solution is to run kindred then surely kindred should be on by default, otherwise why do survivors have 4 perk slots?
I'd like to believe there is a change that could be made to the game that would stop camping hooks from being even partially rewarding, so that perks like kindred can still have a use without being required to ensure that a game doesn't devolve into gen rushing a camping killer and having a big post game argument.
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I've said it before, and I will say it again. The only way to discourage camping is the opposite from what we do now. Killers need a reward significant enough to make them risk their kill and give up potentially valuable bait. Currently, Killers take a point hit for staying within a certain distance of the hook. They balance that against the reward they will get for their sacrifice and potential other hits, downs, etc. for using a honeypot strategy. I can't fault Killers for making this calculation. The game is hard, and often unforgiving. I'm not going to blame a Killer for taking advantage of one squad's suicidal altruism. Do you see my point. Camping, tunneling, slugging, and the Mori are all valid strategies that work in certain situations. They should not be removed, nor shamed.
So, how does one encourage a Killer to leave the hook? Make it profitable. Survivors get Bold for staying within a Killer's terror radius. Killers should receive points toward an emblem for being willing to walk away and continue the hunt for the Entity's pleasure. After all, the Entity clearly enjoys a good game, or it wouldn't do the things it does. It wants hope to rise so it can be destroyed. It wants entertainment, not boring executions. My suggestion to the DEV is to lose the penalties and start thinking about rewards for a behavior that is high risk. What those awards should be, well, I'm not qualified yet to make that determination. I trust the DEV could come up with something just sweet enough to make moving off palatable.
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That's why I propose a system based on the killer's proximity - not a one size fits all. I.E., 90% slowdown within eight meters of the hook, 75% within 16 meters, 50% within 32 meters, etc. These aren't hard percentages, just to give an idea. At the end of the day, the hooked survivor will still die to time if not rescued by Deliverance or a teammate.
A chase within those ranges of the hook can only last so long, am I right? Plus given all the map nerfs...
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This only benefits players that care about emblems/rank though. Now, if the Devs took ranks... and increased BP generation say 25/50/75/100% for yellow/green/purple/red rank brackets... that would be incentive to care about ranks.
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Might I add a piece of sage advice from 44 years ago “Breakdown, go ahead and give it to me. Breakdown, honey, take me through the night. baby, baby, breakdown. Breakdown, now I'm standin' here, can't you see? Breakdown, it's all right. It's all right. It's all right”
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