We Need To Balance SWF
I've long been against nerfing perks based on SWF because balancing the game around the fabled 4man depip squads shafts the solo players. So it's my belief any balances to SWF should only affect SWF. The idea is simple, SWF will get a weakened version of their perk based on how many players are in the SWF group.
FOR EXAMPLE: Iron Will, tier 1 reduces grunts of pain by 50% and tier 3 is 100%, so now imagine that a 4man SWF will only get the level 1 tier variety of their perks, whereas 3 man SWF players will get the level 2 variety of their perks, and 2 man SWF players will keep the perk as tier 3.
Meaning games will look like this from now on:
2man SWF tier 3 perks
3man SWF tier 2 perks
4man SWF tier 1 perks
TL;DR This will mean the next time Devs design a perk, they can balance tier 1 perks based around 4 man SWF, leaving tier 3 for solo or 2mans. Best of all solo players won't lose a good perk because SWF are abusing it.
Comments
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I'd like to ask for a Mod to move this discussion to suggestions & feedback when you read this, thanks in advance.
Post edited by Avarice10 on3 -
An idea I had was just make it so the more survivors are in a party together, the fewer perks they can use:
2-man swf - 4 perks each
3-man swf - 3 perks each
4-man swf - 2 perks each
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That may be overkill because not every SWF is going to be a 4man depip squad and just friends wanting to play a game together.
Just my 2 cents.
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something should be done yes but not something ovverkill probably a debuff in actions would be fine like doing gens slower, slower heals, etc, no perks changes but debuff uiin speed actions. ttweak those numbers but only if they are 3 or 4 man i dont think 2 man is bad at all.
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God no, have you ever gone up against a legion with slower mend add ons, thana, and dying light? On top of that you're suggesting that SWF get a passive debuff speed of all actions? That'd be overkill on the killers running builds to slow the game down just a little bit.
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those 4 man get all gens done in around 5 to 6-7 minutes anyway unless you have corrupt/pop and stuff to slow them down so whats the problem? do you like to leave the game in 4 or 5 minutes everyime? what if now we all can have fun for 10 minutes or 12 and have a "normal" match because is lame AF when i go agaisnt a 4 man and im not using a meta build.
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Because having a debuff that stacks with thana, and Dying light, dealing with a killer that constantly wounds you, or other slow down add ons/perks, like sloppy, is extremely annoying and not fun. Not every SWF team are sweaty, further more applying a debuff of action speed for all SWF means solo players in the 2man and 3 man SWF lobbies get shafted again. I'm totally against this suggestion.
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I think there is a simple resolution for swf balance. People should be able to play in a solo/duo mode ou other mode with 3+ players. It's kinda bad bc killers would rarely play against a 3+ squad but its already bad as it is right now.
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No worries you can say your friends to heal you together.
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Debuff is only applied to the SWF not the solo
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Yeah yeah people here are implying that 'nOT eVErY SWf iS SWeaTY' but it dosent change the fact that even if they want to have fun dosent change that they can communicate positions of the killer and stuff.
Do you know how a SWF has fun in the first place? Let me give you a hint...
Answer :-
1)/whispers slowly in your ears"Its the communication!"
And everything apart from this just adds to the 'fun' aspect. Now let's take it a step further....
2)People communicate to have 'fun' and decide to coordinate their perks.
Some may work and some dont. BUT when they do the right experiment and combo....
For them it's fun but from a killer's PoV it actually is OP.
3)Let's take it a step much further, lets put skilled people together now doing all this...
You now have an elite squad that can do loops and pallets properly,use perks that help each other and communication.
The OP moment starts from the 1st step and steps 2 and 3 are just the evolving stages of the Idealogy of 'fun'.
From my experience, The only acceptable versions of SWF I feel are a party of 2 people because even if 2 people are decent and coordinate, the other 2 randoms have the potential to either massively mess up the game or do well, it's a 50 50 coin toss.
When it becomes 3 people or more, then it becomes truly dangerous for the killer because you can use a plethora of strategies with 3 as compared to 2 people who can only do as much.
So I agree that when it comes to 3 people or more, give them a 15% debuff to something or make corruption intervention and ruin baseline or make it clear in the prematch if 3 or more are grouped together so that killers knows this and uses a mori to swat them out of existence quickly.
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They're still playing with fellow survivors that have debuffs on them though.
Mechanical debuffs will never happen anyway, but if they did it would only make sense to have them for exclusively 4man teams for this reason.
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Do bones
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I think it's a great suggestion, but so many perks hardly rely on tier while some others are effective only as tier3, those perks should be changed first.(DS from 40s to 60s is somehow the balanced change between tiers) Also, I hope that a 8m kindred can be added into 4solo survivors' lobby's basekit(it can make the solo team a bit too strong, but you also know how much the lack of information can affect a team of solo players by thinking of that).
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I think Hexy already has the best idea... Groups should be limited on how much they can bring of the same perk. 3 man and 4 man teams should only be able to have the same perk twice.
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those perks are not even the great of a deal dying light is garbage sloppy just slow down heals not gens, and the only killer that can do that constantly and easy is legion anyway legion is one of the most easiest killers to beat by spreading pressure. anyway i guess only survivors are allowed to have fun, also how many times do you go against legion with those perks average? because its been a while since the last time i did most prefer to use an actual functional build these times. also is not fun for killers either getting rushed against a 4man taht is not even good because you dont even need to be good, just press m1 in SWF wich are way more coordinated to do stuff than solos. the only way i had a game longer than 12-15 mins wasnt because of those perks if any because of survivors being immersive taking the game hostage, but i guess is annoying for survivors the killer being able to actaully play the game for more than 4 to 5 minutes isnt it?. and i dont even use those perks because are garbage sloppy being the exception. this is the only realistic way to nerf SWF since they are insanely efficient, something solos dont have, they break the game with all their good decision making, something solos cant do since they dont have 10 perks each to do so. and they wont erase one slot perk or 2, thats unrealistic but tweaking numbers seems more realistic.
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I took it as he meant they could only bring two perks each, which would just be too debilitating. Yes SWF are strong, but so are Red Rank killers, some of which have 2k hours, going up against such killers with just 2 perks would be insane. and a 3 man SWF only allowed to bring 3 perks puts the solo player in a game that is handicapped against them strongly. Not good.
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Do you know why this is never going to happen?
Because there's a difference between 2-4 friends playing together for fun, and 4-man sweat squads. The latter is extremely rare.
Sometimes, that "sweat squad" you think you're up against is one really good survivor and 3 others who happen to be in the right place at the right time to help.
A nerf to friends playing together would drive players away from the game. There is absolutely no need to punish friends playing together.
The real problem is matchmaking and the rank system. Rank 1 ranges from the sweatiest players in the game to absolute potatoes, based purely on how easy it is to rank up. It has never determined player skill, yet too many players are fixated on this idea that rank actually matters.
Change the matchmaking system, and you solve the problem. This is why the MMR system is being worked on, and hopefully when it's back, it works properly. Then you won't run into SWF sweat squads, because you'll be matched with players closer to your skill level.
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