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Hexi tournament a huge proof that survivors are op?
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I 100% agree with buffing solo queue and buffing killers if necessary, but SWF does not dominate. It just feels like a factoid at this point.
Two questions if SWF is both common and OP:
1) Why were kill rates higher at red ranks than all ranks as of the last stats drop (Nov 2019 - link)? Shouldn't the kill rate at red ranks be lower?
2) Kill rates were ~70% in red ranks as of the last stats drop. Even if you don't believe kill rates are still that high, did SWF first start being OP in December 2019?
My take is that a four-man SWF on comms playing perfectly should win most matches on most maps. In practice, though, SWF tends to play too altruistically and also tends to have a larger disparity in skill, so I doubt they really survive much more than solo on average.
When I play solo, I don't feel I die any more frequently than when I play in a SWF. My SWFs almost always have large disparities in skill and we often make dumb plays just because it's more fun to help each other out than to make the safe play and let each other die. As killer, I can't remember the last time I faced one of the toxic god SWFs that everyone seems to be complaining about on the forums. Usually SWFs just end up feeding me free hits by body blocking when they shouldn't, by running up to me for a flashlight or pallet save before I've started the animation, etc. I'm red ranks for both survivor and killer btw, which is relevant for matchmaking even if it doesn't say much about my skill.
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You donāt need to be a tournament player to do what those guys did.
Gens take 80 seconds to repair solo whether youāre a 10,000 pro or a 2 hour beginner. Sure theres great skill checks but thats irrelevant for now. Fact is even a beginner is left alone could finish a generator in pretty much the same time as a 10,000 tournament player.
Next the survivors mostly split up and ensured the last few gens were miles apart. It doesnāt take a tournament level player to understand that 3 gen = bad, gens spread far and wide = good. This tactic wrecked pretty much everyone but Nurse. Even Spirit was getting stomped by this. Not sure why more people didnāt try Billy to counter this especially when the one we saw had one of the most dominant games in the tournament. 4 hooks before 1st gen.
This is why in red ranks your swfs are so deadly. I play on EU PC servers and most survivors that show their play time range from 2,500 hours - 6,500 hours. Itās insane. There are so many swf of veteran players. Sure theyāre not in the tournament mindset but again you donāt need to be, all you need to know is doing gens and not wasting time = escape, and spreading out the gens = good.
Thatās all you need and you automatically stop almost all of the roster from having a chance outside of some very unique builds. (Like Otz going all seeing on Saloon).
Which kind of goes back to what everyone has been saying in that a lot of the maps have been too big for most killers to handle.
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Honestly there is far to many variables, and bugs in for there to be tournaments.
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Are you trying to imply that this is a tournament level game? If the killers could bring moris and play nurse every game we would have seen a very different outcome.
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I dont know how to answer you properly without insulting you and your intelligence so i only say: Yes, it is fine.
"Genrush is broken"... well obviously it is not as broken as many think. On high level Survivor/Kill ratio is what devs want -> 2 kills 2 escapes and about 5-6 hooks on average.
If you think 3-4K with 10 hooks every round is what killer should have,then indeed it is broken and SWF are busted. But that is totally killler biased thinking.
dont get me wrong, i also want some killers to be buffed, i play a lot of killer trust me and i know how it feels to play against a strong SWF team, but assuming SWF is unfair after that event shows actually how biased some people are. They just want to see what they want to see and thats it. And if killers had only 4Ks then they would find sind stupid excuse for sure.
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No the most revealing thing about that tournament was the personality of certain participants. That and how bad the new various bugs are.
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Ayron is an strong nurse but even he was defeated several times... In the final match agony team defeated Aron's nurse too easy.
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Only watched the last hours of the finals, but it was interesting. The first tournament with a serious price pool and a broader audience. Well done Hexy. I was only surprised by the amounts of pyramid heads, he still lacks map pressure and snowball potential. Huntress and Billy are still better against competitive teams imo. I hope the devs are watching this as well and take some notes for balance.
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I was a professional fighting game player, and they 100% do balance around top players. If they didnāt, there probably wouldnāt ever be another projectile in a fighting game ever lol.
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Pyramidhead is getting nerfed despite him getting utterly stomped in most games.
The one Billy we saw had an incredibly dominating performance but for some reason all these people just panicking from the nerf and listening to the meta.
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They never said that PH is getting nerfed though.
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They didnāt but the writing is on the wall.
All these rumours too and the āhe said, she saidā stuff, theres no smoke without fire
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First off let me say I appreciate the work Hexy put into this tournament and respect the guy but I don't think the scoring was handled the right way because if you're gonna call them the best a good SWF team wouldn't leave a member behind, some of these teams could've made saves but purely didn't because of being nervous of giving the other team another point for a hook. Maybe the game isn't a great tournament game, but I would've loved to see all teams try to get every survivor out like an actual game. For me it just didn't show the skill the teams potentially had because they were more worried about a scoreboard.
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This and other posts saying those types of survivors are "rare".. it's a flawed argument.
These killers were not some random rank 1 nobodies.. it was highest tier survivor vs highest tier killer. And survivors were running through gens like they had old BNPs.
The same principle applies to the "normal" population too.. high level survivor will beat high level killer, above average survivor will beat above avg killer.. etc
how can people not see that?
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We don't need to buff solo survivors either. The only thing you have to do against every killer except Nurse/Spirit is spread out and do the gens. You don't even have to loop anything. Run in a straight line, everyone else do the gens, and you can get 2 out. They could not possibly make survivor easier relative to gen speed and tile safety, but somehow even red rank players can not do this. So many solo survivors spend half the match doing nothing.
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when killers get decent add-on but like blight's compound 21 add-on, "tHiS aDd-On iS OP", Its like... do you want killers to just 1 hook and use noed like the entire tournament? Even with good add-on's, beating good players is hard and add-on allow a killer like wraith that has 0% chance to win, some chance to win and even then its very hard. Its sad how most of base-kit killers are balanced around such casual-level play and sometimes even add-on can't fix a bad base-kit killer.
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i think some people think like that because if you don't get 3k or more you depip
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If they balanced around top players Tekken 7 and SFV would absolutely not be in the state they are in.
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Maybe with the moris however, there was a match between invicible kittens and another team, the nurse had already killed one survivor and a 3gen on saloon, guess what the survivors did overcome that too. Nurse was allowed to bring her strongest addons and the nurse was a very good killer, just check his stats on blink attacks and he is in the top 20-30 worldwide.
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Iirc there were a couple of games which resulted in desaster because the team tried to get the last survivor out. Most just realized that it is not worth the risk, which is totally fine imo. Oracle vs some squad who played freddy, they didn't leave the survivor behind and showed how to do it.
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If Survivors don't have an edge in super high level play w/coms... how the heck could they function in a group of randos, off coms with 1 having all the survival instincts of a special needs lemming?
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Oh ######### I thought your name was familiar.
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Well most people hate the game they play, especially in fighting games. But thatās another issue lol.
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This is stupid. It is bad killers that always complain about op survivors. First off, sweaty try hard killers think only 4k is a win. In a top tier game 2k should be a win if not a tie. Secondly survivor groups are only good as their weakest link. That 4man swf would fall apart if one of their teamates was a rank 10 to 20 rank survivor. A good killer would easily notice that and kill him/her first.
This game is not based around high rank swf pros vs each other. I play solo queue and get wiped easily to rank 15 killers because my teamates are also rank 15's. Killers stop your crying, believe it or not you have the advantage with add-ons and perks. Even in these pro games I bet a red mori they can win. Survivor doesn't have anything close to mori that will help them. As for perks I have teamed up with tons using no mither or crap like that yet i rarely see killers run stupid perks.
Trust me when I say this but even when I get lucky to partner up in solo queue with 4 red ranks they rarely run meta (DS, UB, etc).
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Yeah but this argument means every killer should just quit once they hit rank 5. And youre saying everyone below r1 survivor sucks and is having their hands held. How is this a good argument for the game being balanced.
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Its not one group of matches. Depip squad proved all this a long time ago. Its not new.
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You dont even need swf, just teamates that arent potatos and do gens when they arent being chased
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Conclusions were drawn and proven a long time ago, tourny is more of the same
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The difference is you dont have to put 5k hours in to be a god tier survivor
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Leaving a team member behind is very often the right play. 1k is a loss always.
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There are plenty of games out there that have have lost the interest of casual players all because the devs balance the game as if it were a tournament 24/7.
Iād rather DbD not fall victim to that.
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how rare are the de pip squads let me make this clear not swfs, not death squads, real depip squads that leave teammates to die on hook just to do gens in order to depip the killer, because i meet those squads once every like 200 matches
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the survival rate is 30% dont know where you got 70% from
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Where do you get the 30% from? Please dont tell me from 2019 because red ranks just ment red ranked killer, so even a r1 killer stomping greens would count to that. Back in 2018, check those but then ruin was still around oof.
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I dont care how rare you think they are. The fact that its possible means everyone not doing that is bad at the game since its clearly possible. Theyre also not nrarly as rare as people suggest once you hit r1 and 2. And even if they come for the dude during egc and you get 3 or 4 hooks out of it, how does that invalidate what im saying. Theres nothing fun about chasing survivors through 14 pallets and 15 windows to get 2 or 3 hooks before gens done and then have to camp to hopefully eek out a kill during egc. Thats lame af.
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Absolute grade A bullshit this is. That number takes into account noobs. And isnt even accurate when including them
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Exactly. They wouldnt have made changes they made/are making if killers were over performing
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i dont "think" theyre that rare i know theyre that rare, boring players are boring players, the devs cant balance de pip squads because they have no control over the way people play
same with camping or tunneling you can discourage it but not stop it
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People like to argue, that this are top swf players but the killers are top players as well. The swf you encounter in game, are most likely average or above average like yourself, so you have the same issues a top killer has with top swf just at a lower skill level.
SWF is just too unfair, regardless of how sweaty they are, they have just more information about everyhing that a solo would never have about the killer, totems, pallets that are still up and so on.
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