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This is why I don't agree with the "Do Bones" argument
Yes, this is another post about NOED.
This is gonna be a long read, so, sorry, but I need to get this off my chest.
I've seen time and time again, NOED stans' counter to complaints about NOED is to "do bones" but when players ask for a totem counter, NOED stans show how much they despise the idea. (By counter, I mean a number in the HUD letting players know how many totems are left, please stop talking about Small Game, we know it's a "counter" to totems, that's not the kind of counter I'm talking about.)
It makes me think "but don't you want survivors to "do bones"?? That's what you always say! Then why are you against the idea of letting survivors know how many totems are left?"
It's not like the number will show them the location of the totems... It's the same as with the Generator Counter, it doesn't show you their location, just the amount left to repair. And you don't need a perk for it! (looking at you, people saying a totem counter should be gained by a perk).
Anyway, back to the topic. When people say "do bones", they are asking the survivors to waste time. They are telling survivors to take time away from their primary objective- or should I say ONLY objective, (because totems do not prevent survivors from opening the gates and leaving) - and running around the entire map making sure ALL totems have been broken. Because of course, it's not enough to break 2,3 or even 4 totems by yourself, because if there is a single dull totem, NOED will activate. You can't tell the survivor who has been getting chased all game because the killer won't leave them alone that they should have done bones if they didn't want to get downed by NOED... they were being chased ALL GAME! And you can't blame the teammates for using the time their chased teammate is giving them to do their objective, instead of wasting time totem hunting. Imagine getting chased for 3 minutes and not a single gen is popped because your teammates are running around. We've all had those games...
And what happens when the killer actually manages to apply pressure? And survivors don't have time to do totems because they are constantly getting interrupted, and they are struggling to do gens and rescue and heal, etc.? But then, you make it to the end, and BAM, NOED. It's like the Killer was gonna get a win from the very beginning!
Anyhow.... ultimately, this is why I don't agree with the "Do Bones" argument:
As I stated before, when Killer's tell survivors to "do bones", they are telling survivors to waste time. They are putting the responsibility of lengthening the match to the survivors. They are telling survivors "give ME time to get YOU hooked and potentially out of the game."
"How DARE survivors do their objectives and be good at chases. They're supposed to let the Killers down them! How dare they finish their objective in under 3 minutes!"
When survivors "end" the game quickly, they should be punished by NOED for not doing totems.
Ah! But when KILLERS end the game quickly, they don't get punished. When KILLERS end the game in 2 minutes because they played an insta-down Killer and / or slugged and hooked everyone at the same time, they get applauded. They get the thumbs up. They get the cheers.
When Killers camp, tunnel and slug early game, to prevent survivors from playing / getting points, and end the game by killing everyone in the first 2 minutes of a match, they get applauded because "it's a strategy". But when survivors do their objectives "too fast" and get hit with NOED "it's their own fault for doing what they came here to do." "It's the Survivors' job to make the game last 10 minutes." But the Killer can definitely end it in two minutes if they so desire.
Being camped, slugged, tunneled, is NOT fun. Not only because you are denied of play time, but because you do not get points from it. You don't even make 1k points from struggling on the hook all the way! Not even 900! You don't get points for getting hooked again after having just been rescued, you don't get points for the killer being close to you on hook for half a hook state, you don't get points for recovering on the ground or crawling... but the Killer does. The Killer gets points for doing all of that. The Killer even gets points when survivors get healed!! But the survivor who just got healed by someone else doesn't??
PLUS, even if the Killer doesn't hook anyone, even if they are chasing one survivor all game, they can still potentially max out on 3 categories (hitting, breaking pallets, using their power, chasing...). While the survivor who's getting chased, only gets boldness points from it. And the other categories? Forgotten. Left unrewarded. So the survivor who got chased all game and got downed and sacrificed because of NOED, can potentially leave the match with 8k points while the killer can leave with more than 10k.
Killers have it easier when it comes to making points, and getting them in various categories, they have the power to deny survivors points, and have the power to completely take them out of a game. So why is it that Survivors deserve to be punished for doing their objective, but Killers don't get punished for slugging or camping early game and eliminating the survivors leaving them with scraps worth of points? (Looking at you Infectious Fright Nurses and Oni's, lol)
And don't say it affects their pips because rank doesn't mean anything. One or two depips is nothing. Deranking means nothing. It is not enough to be considered a punishment. They still get more points than the survivors.
This is a game, a game where you make points that you can spend, a game you play BECAUSE you want to make points. Why would you want to wait for a lobby, to get in the game to just get immobilized and denied of getting points all match? If I wanted to do that I'd just play tic tac toe with myself on a piece of paper! How come Killers are allowed to deny survivors from playing and end the game quickly, but survivors aren't allowed to do their objective quickly??? Don't y'all see the double standard???
NOED needs a rework, all survivors getting exposed status right off the bat for doing their objective is unfair.
But I also think that gens should be a bit less accessible (I know on the 4th year anniversary stream they talked about an early game rework, so I'm waiting for that.) Survivors spawning and being able to finish a gen in the first minute of a match is unfair. By less accessible I don't mean increase their repair times, I mean like making the survivors look for an item around the map before they can repair them or maybe a 15 second universal corrupt intervention or SOMETHING. Gen rushing is a thing, not because of gen speeds, but because of maps and the ease of access to gens. I disagree with the "NOED users are bad players" mentality. You shouldn't blame Killers for "not pressuring gens" many times it's not their fault. It's the game's.
Thanks for reading.
Comments
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I am not sure why people complain about NOED.
Unpopular opinion, but:
The perk is average at best.
Atleast on higher ranks. I can imagine that it reks butts on yellow/green/purple ranks.
But why do so many survivors complain about it?
NOED is so damn situational, that it almost never works out in the first place, since:
1) The perk only activates as soon as the endgame is reached.
I must say, the majority of my wins end with a 3K + Hatch Escape, followed by a 4K.
NOED doesn't activate if you win beforehand. So why take a perk that relies on you almost losing?
There are so many better perks to choose from which will boost you in almost every scenario.
Corrupt Intervention, Ruin, Enduring, Spirit Fury, Whispers, Discordance, Brutal Strenght, and many, many more.
2) Doing Bones.
Here we go. I've read multiple arguments regarding this one.
'Doing bones isn't a counter, because it takes time to do so.'
'Doing bones isn't a counter, because it's not my objective and I don't have to do it.'
I mean, atleast there are ways to counter it.
If I - as a killer main - could go to every corner of the map to light up some graves to disable adrenaline/exhaustion perks/whatever I might do it. (+ it would give me hella BP).
Doing bones isn't difficult. And as you get more experienced with the game you start remembering all the totem spawns, IF they don't spawn clearly visiable next to gens, like it happens with my games.
People expect me to 'Just leave survivors for 60 seconds' whenever they could have DS. There is literally no counter play whenever they just jump into a locked. I can't just sit there and wait a minute.
There is no real counter play to adrenaline. Sometimes you just have to watch them get healed, while being unable to reach them.
But meanwhile I hear stuff like: 'Sometimes the killer pressures all 4 of us so we cant cleanse the totems all arround the map'.
Seriously? If the killer somehow tp's all arround the map at once NOED is going to be your smallest issue.
I don't use NOED. But I've tested it. And most of the time it didn't even activate, because all the totems where allready gone.
This was before they started rewarding survivors with double the BP for cleansing.
3) Even if it activates, it tends to get cleansed before you get value out of it.
I've seen this strategy before where survivors leave 1 dull totem in the open and wait for the last Gen to pop to see if it lights up. If it does, they cleanse it - if it hasn't been cleansed by a random allready.
And even without any strategy it seems that some random allways stumbles over this totem whenever it lights up.
4) Sometimes it does activate, but even though you have it, you still have to find, hunt, down and hook the survivor. All within the endgame is going. If you're by chance too far away from one of the exit gates, they'll be allready gone before you can make use of it.
5) Sometimes you only get value out of the speed boost, because the target you are hitting with NOED was allready injured/you would have gotten him anyways.
6) Even if you end up getting value out of it, most of the time it's just 1 instadown, unless you are facing a dumb SWF team which even hook-dives a facecamping leatherface to try and safe their teammate. There are killers that also achieve this with their simple kit - or perks like Haunted Ground/Make Your Choice.
NOED isn't that good.
And lastly, I dislike the point where you said that survivors are getting punished for doing their objective.
They don't.
It's really simple to be honest.
There are a certain bunch of killer perks which focus on the late game.
NOED. Blood Warden. Remember Me.
They are bad at one state of the game, but useful under in certain situations. They aren't punishing the survivor for doing good, they are simply just created to work under different circumstances than your average 'Whispers' perk.
You could say the same with survivor perks. DS for example. Why do I get punished for doing good? I downed the survivor and he gets a 'Get out of jail free card'?
This is just how some perks work.
Also: Killers DO get punished for ending games quick - aswell as camping. It reduces their points, they have a harder way of ranking up/derank, and good survivors will take the opportunity (if they see the killer camping) and win the game.
( I saw that you said: "Don't say this!" but this is literally the state of the game. If you camp, you lose pips. You also most likely lose the game and you don't get much BP. So what is there else to add?)
When I tested NOED it was useless in 7 out 8 games, because I wouldn't have needed it, it got cleansed, it didnt activate or survivors escaped anyways.
~Sincerely, a killer main that doesn't use NOED because it's #########.
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This will be a short read so you’re welcome...
dont do bones dont get points dont cry when downed 5 feet from exit gates with noed... this is a bad mentality that has come from a big streamer that wants noed nerfed but says wasting time on bones when doing gens is more important is bad. This is kind of like hexys counter argument for selfcare haters, it takes less time to selfcare than it does being dead. It takes less time todo bones than the time wasted being downed in front of the gate to noed.
Also why do i get the feeling you are the survivor that waits for you last teammate to die for hatch and gets hit with noed when its closed.
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I am a killer main, so your assumption is wrong. And even if I do play survivor, I allways leave, because I don't wanna be that toxic idiot who wastes 2 minutes at the exit gates just to t-bag the killer.
It's simple, dude.
"Just do bones", if you want to get rid of NOED.
You don't want to do bones?
Well, maybe your teammates got rid of 'em. Maybe the killer doesn't even have NOED.
Maybe he has it, but you die before it activates.
Maybe he gets you, but you were injured anyways and he would have gotten you regardless.
Maybe he has it but it gets cleansed before he reaches someone.
Like I said, NOED is so damn situational that it turns into a unreliable ######### perk on higher ranks. People don't bother with it because they know it's average at best.
So why nerf it? Because yellow/greens have a problem dealing with it? They want to rush even faster and not care at all about totems?
I mean, it would fit bhrv's balancing style.
Back in the day when I used to play survivor, I would allways expect NOED but don't bother dealing with totems.
If the killer doesnt get me within the endgame, I would be fine. And in 9/10 cases this was the case.
Sure, there were these rounds were I was in a chase, the killer is lunging and mid-air the last gen pops, NOED procs and I get insta-downed and die on the first hook.
Of course this is frustrating. But this happened 1 out of 200 games.
There are way worse perks to worry about.
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I'll make it short, gen rush and endure having to search for NOED totem while the killer keeps hit killing your teammates. If you feel cleasing dull totems are a waste of time, you can go without doing them but you should at least remember their locations when NOED goes off. NOED is not a perk that benefits losing killers, is a perk that punishes bad survivors who are oblivious to totems and that is why it was created.
Also saying that killers are the ones who end the game quick is just ridiculous, good survivors can loop killers until 2-4 gens are done because most of the maps allows it, if you and your teammates are not making good use of the map, it doesn't mean killers are the ones ending the game fast, it's yours mistakes making the game go faster.
But I agree with you about a survivor who gets tunneled is bad, they should make it if a survivor gets 7000-8000 in boldness category they are sure to not lose any pip, because it's one of the hardest to get if the killer isn't a walking potato.
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Your post in a nutshell: Please at least give us a totem counter.
Every reply so far: don't complain about NOED!
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This.
Though, while I can see the merit in having a totem counter for the benefit of solo players or non-4-man SWF groups to know whether or not their 'randos' are breaking totems so they know whether they should be using repair time in search of totems or not; I think having an actual physical counter would weaken hex perks too much by giving the Survivors too much information in regards to how they can spend their match time - allowing them to "optimize" gen rushing and totem breaking instead of having to use some precious seconds not knowing.
I think a better system, personally, would be a game-wide notification/unique sound effect when the last totem is shattered that lets all players know there are now no more totems. This way, you still get the indication that you no longer have to search for totems -- but you never, at any given time prior, know just how many totems are left. You would only know 'if the sound hasn't gone off, there's at least one totem hiding somewhere'.
Even this, though, still weakens hex perks which are meant to force Survivors off their generators and to use match time focusing on a second objective instead of just rushing through the primary objective with no consequence.
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I'm good with this; or, the idea of a totem counter in the basement. That way, it still requires a survivor to take the time and risk of going down there to determine how many totems are left. Also, Small Game desperately needs to be buffed to show destroyed or remaining totems.
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That would be the optimal change: modifying Small Game to give that player a totem counter -- requiring giving up another crutch or meta perk in order to feel more confident about searching for bones.
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Literally. They all choose to ignore the main points I bring up and a lot of them get angry and annoyed. They bring up "but what about when you're going against optimal groups!?" like they think I haven't gone against cocky survivors who pre-drop pallets to finish a gen right in front of me... and they counter my "dont say {do bones}" argument with "Do Bones". Lol, it's hilarious. They instantly assume I'm an immersed survivor main that crouches around the entire map not doing anything. When it's the complete opposite. I play both roles. I know the struggles of both roles. I know the frustrations of both roles. But as soon as you say you want a change for one side, you're a clown and a joke and entitled and a *crybaby*. ...When they're the ones getting personally offended and agitated....
Honestly???? That sounds like a sick Idea!!! I'd love that to be implemented!! That way both sides know when all totems are gone!
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Only lazy low rank survivors complains about Noed!
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When I talk about Killers ending the game fast. I mean the Killers who purposefully slug survivors and aim to get them all down simultaneously in order to hook them all at the same time. I'm not talking about games where survivors keep memeing and coming for unsafe rescues and risky saves or choose to group up and loop the killer next to their downed teammates. Those survivors obviously were trolling and handed themselves to the Killer.
So it is totally fair to say that Killers have the ability to end the game quickly and are applauded when they do.
Sorry, I apologize if I misunderstand what you are saying but I'll give my answer to what I believe is the message you are trying to send.
Your final sentence, before the one with your very specific and, unfortunately for you, wrong presumption about me, is comparing spending minutes searching for totems and cleansing all of them which take an additional 12+ seconds depending on the amount you find and cleanse, to getting one hit downed by a sped up killer and being instantly hooked and camped end game. Again, we are using the time factor. And again, you are blaming the survivors for not taking time away from the gens, in order to "save the time they could spend being downed by NOED." You are punishing and blaming the survivors for doing their objective and not giving the Killer their "rightfully deserved" downs and play time. You are punishing survivors for basically not cooperating with the Killer.
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oooh you got me! omg I never thought anyone would notice.. I'm so embarrased... 😥😔😔😔 now everyone will know I crouch around and play blendette in every match getting all of my teammates killed and farming them off hooks... my dignity....
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I Actually agree with every point you made here. My biggest gripe is like you said they want us to do bones which wastes time ot give them time on the off chance noed is active. In solo queue a simple totem counter could resolve this problem.
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I've given you like 6 points, you quote one of them and act like 'this is all people replied with'.
Yes, there is no need to implement your idea of a fix because it would end up weakening perks which are allready 'High Risk - Medium Reward' average perks at best, that most of the time don't even come into play, leading to the killer just giving up a perk slot.
I listed you reasons why NOED shouldnt be nerfed, and why it baffles me that players like you seek for ways to fix/nerf the perk, when it's perfectly fine where it is.
But I guess my post was too long for you to read, that's why you only read one point and act like the evil entitled killer mains aren't even thinking of your idea. :)
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You are forgetting countering perks by doing the hex totems are part of the objective list, until you can realize and remember that this debate is going nowhere.
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I never said nerf it. I said rework it so that it's a more interesting and fair perk to use and go against. Getting free downs because survivors did their job is not fair. It IS punishing survivors for doing their job. Again my post is about how killers use the "do bones" argument to defend NOED, which, as I said, is a synonym for blaming survivors for not *choosing* to take time away from their primary objective. Bloodwarden and Remember me don't give the killer free hooks and sacrifices. They have requirements to meet. They require the killer to do something in order for it to activate.
I'm not here pretending that meta survivor perks are perfectly balanced. They obviously aren't.
I will say again that you cannot say depipping is a punishment because it isn't a noticeable punishment in-game and post-game. Because of how meaningless ranking up is. You don't get rewarded for it. Even if a Killer ends the game quickly and gets less points, they still get more points than all the survivors, so, that also, isn't a fair punishment.
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Hex perks do not deny survivors access to gen progress, nor do they deny access to opening exit gates. They hinder survivors, and make survivors vulnerable, but do not impede on their primary objective. Until you can realize and remember that, your argument is going nowhere.
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Yup. NOED stans will ignore my points and stay holding on to the "Do Bones" argument.
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Me: "Saying "Do Bones" is wrong and here's why."
NOED stans: Do bones and stop complaining.
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I allready said this.
"Survivors aren't getting punished for doing their job."
It's just a lategame oriented perk.
With your logic a lot of perks would need a rework.
Take Bitter Murmur for example. With your logic I could also say: "Why does the killer see me whenever I finish a gen? Why do I get punished for doing my objective? I am just doing gens, like I am supposed to, and the game/perk is punishing me for it!"
Also Bitter Murmur doesn't require the killer to do something, aswell.
This is just how some perks are designed.
There are lots of perks like these.
Same with survivor perks.
"Why does DS hit me, when I just downed a survivor? Why is this game punishing me for doing my job?"
This is not how it works, dude.
Also NOED has the requirement of having atleast 1 dull totem alive, within the endgame, while relying that you still have to work for it (managing to find/hunt/hit the last survivors before they escape), and it can also get cleansed at this point.
It has every counterplay opportunity any other hex has, and even more.
People just complain against NOED because it's lame to go against.
The only point I agree with is a BP issue. But survivors tend to get less BP overall, which could need some adjustments.
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Bitter murmur gives the Killer information, it does not grant them an insta down.
Having a dull totem is a requirement for the perk itself to work. The Killer does not need to perform an action prior to its activation or after its activation to gain the effects. Resulting in a very strong "reward" for the killer, in exchange for nothing *from* the killer.
As I said, DS is not balanced properly. imo it should deactivate once you perform any action unrelated to a chase. Hopping in a locker should deactivate it. Because right now it allows survivors to be cocky. But at the same time, I believe it should stay active all game after being unhooked. So long as the survivor does not perform any game progessing action.
Killers have a job to do, yes, but in the end, it's a game. Everyone came in to get points. If a killer wants to deny a survivor points by tunneling them, they are playing like a jerk. They are not simply "doing their job" by tunneling, they are purposefully denying that player points in other categories. That's what I mean when I say tunneling and slugging should be discouraged with more noticeable drawbacks or changes in the in-game mechanics. Just the same way I believe some mechanics/design choices/perks should be readjusted to prevent cocky playstyles by survivors, to take away their feelings of "superiority" because they abuse game mechanics and map designs knowing that the Killer cant do anything about it.
When I say "NOED punishes survivors for doing their objective." It's because they gain a very powerful hindrance once they complete their objective. Imagine survivors getting a perk where they gain the blindness, hindered and exposed status effects when opening a chest. Would you run it? Imagine killers getting a perk that stuns them when they kick a gen or break a pallet. Would you run it?
They'd do nothing for you. They'd only benefit your opponent, even tho it's YOUR perk.
That's how I see NOED. The Killer does not require to perform an action to gain a speed boost and give survivors the exposed status for finishing all gens.
So yes, it IS punishing survivors for doing their objective and gives the killer easy downs.
And also, the point I tried to make with my post, is that, people who use the "do bones" argument, are BLAMING the survivors for not wasting time. They are blaming the survivors for not lengthening the match. They are blaming the survivors for finishing "too quickly". And because of that, they are saying that survivors deserved to get hit with NOED. In other words, you can say that they also see NOED as a punishment for survivors who do their objective.
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theres a ton of bus, lies and misconceptions in this lets start with:
"As I stated before, when Killer's tell survivors to "do bones", they are telling survivors to waste time."
yes and there's nothing wrong with this it makes the match more interesting to decide what to prioritze and get punished if you pick wrong plus you get points for cleansing totems.
"ALL totems have been broken. Because of course, it's not enough to break 2,3 or even 4 totems by yourself, because if there is a single dull totem, NOED will activate."
you know you can break noed after it spawns right? if you worry about not being able to find the fifth totem maybe you should keep one obvious totem around so when you break 3 you have a 50% chance of knowing exactly where noed spawns. Or you know just take a map for a few games and memorize spawns.
"But when KILLERS end the game quickly, they don't get punished."
yes they do this is a lie they get minimal points and might even derank and have no chance of double pipping. you say not pipping is meaningless but i disagree i like close games and while rank is a weak indicator of how well the players are it does account for the extremes well at least ie: if you need to play against players that installed 10 min ago you likely wont find them outside rank 20 and if you want to play against the best that put 100 hours in every week you wont find them outside red ranks.
do you just hate hex perks as an idea? would you prefer an m1 simulator with nothing else to do?
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TMI in this thread
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No ED is literally just weaker Rancor.
Guarantees one extra kill in endgame if the other Survivors are smart and leave when they can't find the totem in time.
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Another case of countering my disagreement of the "do bones" argument, with the "do bones" argument.
You are giving survivors the responsibility of making the game last longer. You want survivors to spend time away from generators so that it's easier for the Killer to apply pressure. But in the same breath are okay with games where Killers purposefully slug to hook everyone at once early game. Again, you are fine with Killers ending games quickly but not with survivors doing the same. You are okay with Killers denying survivors points, but are not okay with survivors ending the game early.
"You know you can break the totem when it's active right?" Yes. I do. What is your point? That does not help you in any way. The whole point of what I said is that it doesn't matter if you went through the trouble of breaking four totems, the killer can still wipe out the team because of that one totem. You are countering me with "do bones." You are not providing any good counter arguments with that. It's like me saying "something is wrong" and you asking me why it's wrong and I reply with "because it's wrong".
No matter how strongly you feel about ranking. It. Does. Not. Matter. Deranking, ranking up. It does not matter. Rank doesn't prove your skill. Rank doesn't give you usable in-game/in-store rewards. Ranking does not matter, therefore, deranking is not a good punishment because at the end of the match you still camped someone, you still denied them from getting points, you still denied them from playing, you still ruined their game. That's the point I'm trying to make but ya'll choose to ignore it and look at it from a superficial perspective or hold the "Players from that side deserve it" mentality where you only care about YOUR fun because as long as it's fun for YOU you're okay with it and it doesn't need changing.
And as I have stated before, Killers that end the game quickly don't make many points, but they still leave the match with more points than the survivors. In other words, they ruin the match for the survivors, because they were denied of points and/or were incapacitated most of the game and the Killer STILL makes it out with more points than all of them.
You are choosing to ignore the depth of the points I have made just because you are on the side of the "Do Bones" clan lol.
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Or do bones
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I didnt read your post but you're right, NOED and destroy an entire team. It reminds me of one time i was AFK as Bubba I had got 4 chainsaws for a daily with no hooks and then decided to not bother playing and just let them get the free escape. One came up and kept pointing at me so i thought they wanted to farm but they actually just wanted to loop. So I wiped the whole team with Bubba's chainsaw and slugging. Idk how i did they seemed to just not want to open the door. If it was me i would have opened the door, just like when there's NOED in a game.
I've literally died to NOED once that i can think of. Surely it must be more than that but it can't be by much, and i know for a fact i've died to more moris. Maybe people just don't take the killer seriously a threat because they're really not lol
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you should read it then
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you're saying saying asking survivors do bones is wrong because it doesn't work well enough and it wastes time this argument just doesnt work because it railroads survivors into only doing gens with no other option to even consider. there is nothing wrong with a side objective to make late game easier. im not against the basement totem counter idea btw.
idk ######### you are talking about here:
": the killer can still wipe out the team because of that one totem. You are countering me with "do bones." You are not providing any good counter arguments with that. It's like me saying "something is wrong" and you asking me why it's wrong and I reply with "because it's wrong"."
you describing how noed works and then i say yes and you say "why aren't you countering my argument?!" are you just looking for agreement?
"No matter how strongly you feel about ranking. It. Does. Not. Matter. Deranking, ranking up. It does not matter. Rank doesn't prove your skill. Rank doesn't give you usable in-game/in-store rewards. Ranking does not matter, therefore, deranking is not a good punishment because at the end of the match you still camped someone, you still denied them from getting points, you still denied them from playing, you still ruined their game. That's the point I'm trying to make but ya'll choose to ignore it and look at it from a superficial perspective or hold the "Players from that side deserve it" mentality where you only care about YOUR fun because as long as it's fun for YOU you're okay with it and it doesn't need changing."
if your first 1/3 of this you saying ranking is worthless to you but many people feel that the secondary meaning of the pip system is whether or not you won ie: 2 pip=absolute win 1 pip= close win black pip=tie no pip=loss. the middle is the standard " i hate campers" bit but you make another dig like you did in the original post about "you still denied them from playing, you still ruined their game" getting crushed by a player that is better than you at their role than you are at yours isnt fun because losing isnt fun and because of the lack of suitable ranking system in this game and neither of these are noed problems. and the last 1/3 is just you putting words in my mouth that i didnt say.
the last paragraph sounds like you hate killers that absolutely destroy survivor teams to the point of thinking an absolute loss should give equel points to all players. am i wrong? what are you trying to say at the end?
the depth of your points seems to be:
1.i like to gen rush dont stop me
2.i cant find the 5th totem and i need help
ive answered these above if i am over looking something tell me exactly what it is
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Making the game easier for you and your team IS an objective.
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Killers get more bloodpoints because the cost of their add ons and the fact they can't even keep them at the end of the match. Other than that, I don't agree with anything you typed.
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-"Bitter murmur gives the Killer information, it does not grant them an insta down."
So what? It still contradicts your statement. The killer gets something for failing (Gens are being done) and survivors get punished for doing their objective. (Getting revealed to the killer for doing gens).
Killer doesn't have to do anything for this perk to activate and basically gets this information for free, while the survivors are getting fked for doing gens.
Like I said: This is just how lots of perks are designed.
It's not an instadown, sure, but NOED doesn't straight win you the game either. It's a situational perk, that sometimes allow you to insta down people if you manage to find the survivors within a short time span.
All this while it still might not activate at all, or when it might get cleansed before getting any value out of it.
-"No matter how strongly you feel about ranking. It. Does. Not. Matter. Deranking, ranking up. It does not matter."
It might not matter to you, dude. But it does matter to a lot of people. You can't just say: "NOED has no real/good counter! What? Bones? No, I don't like that because I have to actually do something else than my objective to get rid of it.
So it's not a real counter!
Wait? You can still cleanse it? So what? Doesn't matter!
Also it gives killers a free quick win without them having to lose anything. Wait? They still derank and 'lose'? I mean, who cares about rank at all? I don't, so it's still stupid! It's just about BP!
Wait, they also do get less BP if they win that way? It's still more BP than the survivors get!"
Like ... What do you want to hear?
-"You want survivors to spend time away from generators so that it's easier for the Killer to apply pressure."
Yes, this is why you take some perks as killer. Especially Hex perks. Ruin. Huntress Lullaby. Devour Hope. Even the risk of NOED is supposed to get survivors of gens to look for totems and slow down the game.
This is why you take these perks. This is why they are designed the way they are.
-"If a killer wants to deny a survivor points by tunneling them, they are playing like a jerk."
...Or they tunnel because they are trying to eliminate 1 of their 4 targets to slow down the game, which is currently balanced in a way that most killers feel like being under a lot of time pressure.
If I am targeting a survivor or "tunneling" him, I am not doing it to deny him of any fun. I am also not playing to entertain the survivors. This isn't my job. I am not supposed to obey any survivor rulebook so they have a good time.
I don't request stuff of them for me either like: "Don't cleanse my hex perk within the first minute of the game, because it stresses me out, plz!"
It's perfectly fine for a killer to camp or tunnel. It's not even toxic. At the end of the day you are following your objective of KILLING the survivors. It might be a lame way that isn't entertaining for the survivors, but like I said, that's not your job.
-" They are not simply "doing their job" by tunneling"
I mean ... technically they are. They are killing off a survivor, which is their job? It's just not that much fun for the survivor.
...
I agree with your issues regarding:
"prevent cocky playstyles by survivors, to take away their feelings of "superiority" because they abuse game mechanics and map designs knowing that the Killer cant do anything about it", though.
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If doing bones is to much to ask, then destroying pallets is to much to ask.
Destroying pallets is not the main objective of killers, slows down their gameplay and allows survivors more time to work towards escaping. Spending the time breaking it might pay off or not at all, if the survivors never play in that area again you just wasted time. If you get looped around a pallet and they vault back and forth, isn't it in a killers best interest to break it? It is a secondary objective, but according to you those shouldn't be required to be done.
The same thing applies to Hex perks, they don't stop you from escaping, working on generators and opening the gates... but if you choose not to do it, it might make your game more difficult if the killer even brought them. They cost a perk slot for killers, can be disabled by the survivors... you don't have to do bones, but you shouldn't complain about hex perks if you don't want to spend time to disable them.
The choice is on you... you need help doing bones, then bring a detective hunch. It costs the killer a perk slot to make bones important, why shouldn't it cost you one to find them or bring a map? They aren't even important according to you, 5 generators are your only objective... the other 2 can be ignored, the 5 totems can be ignored... so why should the game tell you those that are left in the game.
Killers bring hex perks to gain a strong effect... that is why they spend a perk slot on them, the choice to remove the perk is on survivors... if you find it a waste of time to remove it don't complain about the fact that the killer benefits from the effects they give. Removing them even gives you bloodpoints... which seemingly is your only objective in the game so why are you not? Do bones they give you bloodpoints... win/win
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Perfectly said. I fully agree with your take.
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do bones
get mad
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Survivor's add-ons get used up too even if you dont use your item. And I don't think that is the reason why Killers make more points. Unless the devs themselves said that in a livestream.
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