https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472588/future-of-dead-by-daylight-forums
So.. pop is nerfed because killers are too good?
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This. Its not about the 15 seconds. Its the principle behind the thinking that irritates me.
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It is true, killer mains know that this really doesn't change much. The problem is that they are nerfing something that really isn't that big a problem for survivors, while leaving DS as it is and stating the reasons Pop needs changes are the exact same reasons that DS needs changes. But they won't even acknowledge it's a problem.
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In 45 seconds you can pop a gen 2 miles away if you want.
Do you think DS is gonna be nerfed?
They will make DS super anti tunneling so if you decide to chase the person off the hook, you automatically lost the game if the team is not garbage.
Do you think DS change will be like pop's? Just 45 seconds instead of 60?
You're crazy if you believe that.
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🤦♂️
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Thrilling or BBQ will let you get easy 99s and one shots on people on gens after every hook. You do not need 60 seconds of pop on GF lmao
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I meant to respond to you. I'm stupid lol
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Oh a hi five. Then you agree with me.
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I hate you but I totally agree.
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Happens to the best of us. I don't see how either of those examples disprove my case though. Like it or not it takes time to stalk and down someone, and having 15 extra seconds is incredibly useful. Is it necessary? No. Is it helpful? Yes.
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This nerf means Tier 3 Pop will now be closer to how Tier 1 Pop is today (just 5 seconds more).
Not a HUGE nerf but, come on, anyone who has used this perk a lot on Tier I knows it makes a clear difference. With PGTW Tier 3, you can search for a generator where it's worth using, instead of wasting it on 10%-progressed generators that might be near you. On tier I, you sometimes have to kick the first gen you see because the timer may run out while you go check which of the further gens are closer to being fixed (doesn't happen a lot with high mobility killers like Hillbilly, Oni or Nurse, but it's a common risk for Deathslinger, Huntress and Clown), unless you ignore everything around you and go straight for the gen, which would probably be bad, because you would waste opportunities to do your objective and apply pressure. In other words: frequently, you waste Pop Tier I uses to avoid delaying your map pressure and objective. You should never have to waste a perk that rewards you for hooking survivors.
Again, it's a small nerf and barely makes difference for high mobility killers, but makes some difference for those who don't travel so fast. Why nerf a tool that helps killers with no map pressure? One that rewards for victories in chases, nonetheless. Why was this nerf even needed?
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no I think he hitting his head against a wall right now.
why should we just change perk (use something else)get over it
not like this nerf going do much but fact they doing it not change any broken survivor perk like DS.
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As a regular GF player can confirm. I say let´s see how it plays out though, I don´t mind the Pop nerf too much. As with many others, the reasoning behind it and the obvious double standard is what irritates me.
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Yeah GF doesn't have any antiloop and no mobility with a power that has a cooldown so time/gen management is alot more important.
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This is me asking as someone who never uses pop. How do you figure that out though?
Because half of the time you spend it looking for gens being worked on. So if you happen to say find a survivor you could injure in the process, that isn’t a bad thing.
So I guess my question is what sort of “other things” do you guys consider as the basis for nerfing it?
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Well no one wants to compromise. One side wants to win all the time. The other side wants to win all the time.
Then you get MAINS mixed in and it's a bunch of babies that want the other side nerfed with nothing given in return.
Balancing is give and take, and the DS issue can't be resolved easily. Without it you get tunneled to death. With it you get a few more seconds before getting tunneled to death. And it's broken when the whole team has it.
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And there's this: If a whole minute is more than enough time for the killer to chase someone else, why does DS need to last one minute? That's enough time for the killer chase someone else and than kick a gen, so he won't be tunneling you after nearly a minute.
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I mean, with how strong Ruin/Undying is, and the fact that Thana is getting a buff, I think we just need to wait it out and see how the Pop nerf really plays out. There's still a ton of regression/slow down perks in the game. (To be fair though, I was a killer player that never really enjoyed using Pop as much anyway, so...)
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That's... pretty fair, actually.
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I don't really think he is playing Blight right now (I couldn't miss it, sorry).
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I’ve always dislikes the saying that they balance for rank 20’s......but in this case I can’t think of anything else other than a rank 20 saying Pop was too powerful. Like they do with BBQ.
I used to use Pop back when it was 30 seconds on low tier killers like Clown. Yea there was urgency to using it. Often you would be hitting a gen within the last 10 seconds of the perk. You had to ditch chases to hit the gen. It was either chase or Pop, and while Pop can be like that now you didn’t even stand a chance before.
The problem is many of the weaker killers need all the pressure they can get. Often spending 20 seconds travelling to a gen just to kick it and save 20 seconds wasnt worth the trade off considering you just allowed them to re-group and do whatever. It was often more impactful to just go straight after survivors and keep up pressure.
All I can see this doing is making killers feel a little annoyed and just pushing more people to the Undying/Ruin meta. Then we know for a fact you’re going to nerf that by the December update. People can bookmark this now, undying/ruin will be getting nerfed within months and Almo knows it but wont say it.
So either theres a new regression perk that will come out which keeps up Behaviours recent business practise of making adjustments to one thing to sell something shiny and new or we’ll just head into dark times again.
Also lol at the fact that their Pop explanation sums up DS. I wasn’t even mad about DS but theres no denying the same explanation applies. Its like they look at things in a vacuum.
Glad Pop got adjusted though which almost nobody had an issue with but OoO is still untouched even though if you read the other day that it actually ruins the game for many people as its such a toxic and abused perk. Priorities.
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Not for selling more blight DLC, with the undyng+ruin new Combination? However at least the combo give you reward for early pressure, pop is strong but often inconsistent, because surv can close gen in your Face before you reach it. When the promised warm up early game thing?
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pop was always weak perks and now its even more #########
scott jund recently explained how much time pop goes the weasel actually gains for the killer
not being able to go for a chase and down someone and then use one pop and get second right away makes the perk useless and ill just use more ruin undying that survivors so hate to verse
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My point wasn't that it wasn't useful. It's that they don't need it. It can be helpful to have an extra 15 seconds on every killer.
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It's yet another case of the usual "whataboutism" that is plaguing this community.
YES, there are DS abusers ruining the game for people. But there are still tunnellers and people who wait out that 60s timer as of current. Until you fix that problem, then just cease.
I made a WHOLE THREAD stating about why these comparisons are bad after all!
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They gotta sell this half-@$$ed chapter to make some money. Then they will nerf undying 100%
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didn't scott make a video countering your argument -
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but it abused by survivor I know no one likes to be tunneled but something need to be done fast my idea
make it 45 sec like pop or Healing, Repairing, Cleansing, sabotage, or searching chests deactivates DS but always have Obsession in game even if there no Obsession perks that way killer never knows.
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Okay, whats the problem with what I'm saying then? For characters like GF this is quite a prominent nerf to the perk.
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I disagree with it being prominent. I don't think it'll affect him more than any other killer.
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Ahh gotcha, while I disagree I do see where your coming from. I just feel that characters like GF that 15 seconds can be quite prominent for managing time efficiently and still getting the Pop.
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Honestly the game needs a director AI that randomly gives boons or debuffs according to what's going on in the game.
Buuuut swf and good killers don't want to be punished for doing good, so what do I know?
And healing makes a lick of difference if the killer wants your biscuits. They either need to go loop god, or die. That's what makes DS the best and worst perk in the game. They need to implement base hooking rules if they want to mitigate abuse. Currently it's a free for all, so everyone is going to bring the perks that suit them.
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I see where you're coming from fs. Depends on playstyle at the end of the day.
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Not related. The only people that want a reduced timer on DS are tunnelers and entitled killer mains. The nerf to POP won't even affect anything, it just means you have to POP the gen instead of downing someone else and even having time to hook someone else. Nobody needs 60 seconds to POP a gen. Tunneling and slugging is a huge problem and they would be silly reducing a timer on DS to make matters even worse. If anything, they should buff it so it doesn't count down while being chased or when slugged.
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Yeah, but it's the others that are entitled and totally not you....
I agree tunneling( which is a very loose term) can feel ######### but slugging? Theres tons of stuff to combat that and in the higher skill brackets a much needed tool for the Killer to create pressure.
And if you think only tunnelers get hit with DS, think again.
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If a killer is getting hit with DS when he wasn't tunneling, it is still his own fault and he is already winning. Guess what you can do to prevent the PGTW regression? Nothing, just watch it happen. Several times a match too. Comparing a perk that has a chance of never being used to a perk that slows the progression on a consistent basis is disingenuous.
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PGTW was nerfed because any killer that knows what they’re doing doesn’t need 60 seconds to make good on the perk.
I’ve played Clown (and his perks) since the release of Curtain Call and the perk never needed to be buffed from 30 seconds to begin with.
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Which one? The whataboutism that he too complains about, the fact that people will still tunnel through DS, or the fact that Survivor and Killer are completely separate games?
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the fact you called it whataboutism even though in this situation its valid
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Not really. I'm complaining about whataboutism in general, and yes in Scott's video he said that this was a MORE FAIR comparison, but I still have my issues with it.
Killers have the choice to chase or kick a generator. Survivors don't control when they get unhooked or get picked up by the killer. There's always more to consider with situations like this and it's also the reason I made my thread explaining how they are two separate games that we are comparing.
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Its still the same logic, both hinder the other from doing their objectives, its just that one is way more powerful than the other. And i already read that post which doesn't change my mind.
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Yea, god forbid a skilled killer can down someone, use it, and then load it back uo.
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I mean it's not a problem for me cause i dont tunnel
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What about ds?
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than you are just bad as a killer dude, you can get hit with ds without tunneling at all. props to the rank 20 killer
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But this is the complaint people have about DS...🍰
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In my opinion I feel like the duration should have stayed but upon use just put it on a 20 second cooldown or something like that before you can proc it with a hook again. Might be a worse situation than current but I feel like this isn't going to affect the S and A tier killers but it's absolutely going to ruin the perk for lower tier killers. We'll see how it performs on the PTB though.
But to clarify you can keep refreshing the duration by hooking people but the moment you damage a generator while the perk is active the perk cannot be activated for X amount of seconds and then it functions like normally again.
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Well i dont see DS being used in any other way other then from tunnels. Like do they throw them selves at you before the timer runs out?
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yea don't understand the dev logic.
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I’ve seen you complain about Undying/Ruin. If you nerf Pop what do you think killers are now going to be more likely to run?
You’ve even said before about Hag being able to run across the map and Pop a gen within 45 seconds. It she does that shes giving up all existing pressure she may have on the map. Its not worth it at all, that was the issue with Pop in its original form.
And no if you take a DS it doesn’t mean you’re winning.
I dont like to accuse people of only playing one side but from all your arguments I cant come to any other conclusion.
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I think if the devs made more incentives for playing both sides, the game and forums would be better.
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