So.. pop is nerfed because killers are too good?
Comments
-
It's got to a point where is just funny. Honestly just funny
4 -
I complained because there's another aura reading perk and now it is tied to slowing the game down. Killers depending on such perks to win means they are not winning, the perks are winning the game for them. If killrates are very high, which I can guarantee they are, then these kind of perks need nerfing. It's also too oppressive on fast killers.
A fast killer with an aura read is going to be oppressive to play against, guarding a totem all game and that's exactly what is going to happen. Will they nerf it, I'm already hoping so. If the hag can still cross the map is 45 secs then it isn't a nerf at all. It just means she can't stop and get a drink on the way.
I actually played killer when the game first came out when kills was actually no easy feat, so you might want to stop there. I remember when all four had sprint burst that replenished mid-chase, self-care was faster, insta-heals, insta-gens, and before DS was ever nerfed (3 times btw). Borrowed time protected the unhooker. Jungle gyms all had two pallets each and they were all vacuums. And maps had several jungle gyms. Every building had an infinite window. You killers have no idea how easy you have it now.
0 -
BHVR: We found that killer was too playable so we are continuing to nerf every good option they have at dealing with game speed and making sure the experience is as frustrating as possible
15 -
It's not even a nerf its 15 seconds less than it is now and 15 seconds more than when it came out so the just split the difference. If you can't regress a gen in 45 seconds which isn't hard unless it's in the corner of the map across from you it wouldn't matter anyway you would never be able to get there before they popped it anyway
0 -
Perks are winning the game for them?
You mean like DH, Sprint Burst, DS, Unbreakble, Adrenaline, BT etc etc?
11 -
This thread in a nutshell..
36 -
It's directly a nerf towards arriving at that generator - finishing that chase in a leeway of a 30~40 second amount of time then kicking that gen for ~give or take 20 seconds of time then hooking that other survivor to get another 20seconds someone else on the map if you can get to that gen in time. I understand the nerf but also understand why people are upset that a "momentum" perk that bandaids the problem of base kick being near worthless and gen speeds being basically unhindered by base regression while simulatanously raising concerns that the "viable" alternative is to once again rely on Hex: Ruin now with it's Hex: Undying sibling... which is arguably an even more braindead slowdown perk.
It's still very much useable and I'll probably still run it since more often than not I'm rushing to a gen to get a single hit - then kicking the gen before resuming chase anyway but value is definitely being lost where more and more agency is being taken away from the killer while people don't like that the current state of multiple DSes isn't being addressed at the same time (Another bandaid to the unhealthy problem of tunneling out individuals - just notice killer games when there are no obsession at all at R1 and you'll know what I mean).
1 -
Half of those are situational 1-time use and depends on what the killer does.
0 -
I don't think you grasp how they effect the game though. They keep the entire game rolling on and in some cases can even reset it.
8 -
Isn't that what killer slow down perks do but on a more consistent basis?
0 -
Pop has a small effect throughout the game, it doesn't have a major effect like the survivor perks do. Popping a gen will very rarely if ever manage to have the same impact a well timed survivor second chance perk will have.
The only killer perk that is really comparable is NOED but I don't think you will find anyone defending NOED. At least not me.
8 -
What is wrong with I'm all ears though? I've heard you complain about it.
1 -
I love how people are complaining about a perk that only works one time with a strict time limit and you have to pass a difficult skill check. So there is no guarantee you're going to get utility out of it necessarily. Not to mention the fact that most Killers go out of their way to circumvent the perk entirely. Pop is still a very compelling perk. Make a decision, 45 seconds is still very generous. The perk isn't necessarily intended for you to get use out of it every single time you get a hook. You have to make decisions.
1 -
1) the skill check for DS is easy as hell.
2) "one time perk" that can be used by 4 different survivors, with a stun that is unaffected by enduring.
3) the momentum shift that can be caused by DS is MASSIVE compared to pop, outside of a 3 gen scenario. Pop is strong, but mostly in addressing a core issue (that normal kick regression rate is pathetic.)
4) DS can be "forced" on killers, by putting them in situations where the survivor cannot be attacked and slugged, but only grabbed (namely lockers.) Its synergy with Unbreakable also makes it so that the survivor can pick themselves up if the DS is respected, without the killer even knowing if unbreakable was used or if another survivor healed the last few % for the pickup.
Pop's timer issue comes from chase times. If you don't have high mobility and/or an instadown, as well as proper aura reading, those 15 seconds can make a huge difference. If you don't get any type of aura proc telling you what gen is being worked on when you hook someone, it will take time for you to find, let alone reach, a gen to kick. Remember, you can't see how far along a gen is by its aura, and using pop on a gen with 5% progress is not as desired as one with 75% progress.
Killers don't run bbq every single build. a lot of them don't even have room for it, tbh.
6 -
I'm not going to engage a debate about DS, because every topic veers into that and every talking point has been discussed. So far haven't seen anything new introduced to convince me otherwise. DS is a perk that depends on The Killer. The only way DS is forced is if you engage a Survivor within the well established window. The description and activation conditions are well known, so if you pick-up a Survivor that was hooked within the last 60s you may get struck with DS. People can miss DS, it's not a guaranteed redemption even when you grab someone within 60s. On topic, PGTW at 45s seems fine to me. I run it sometimes and usually know exactly where I am going and make it within seconds.
0 -
Sounds a lot like another 60s perk I know of...wink wink. :)
14 -
After seeing the devs's response, I'm glad that i opened this discussion lol...
I never expect devs to dig their own grave by saying that, and expecting people not to feel the same about DS, which is even more suitable for that statement.
14 -
so you say things like ds is "not a guaranteed redemption" and then ignore "If you don't get any type of aura proc telling you what gen is being worked on when you hook someone, it will take time for you to find, let alone reach, a gen to kick."
the hypocrisy is palpable. especially since one needs a simple button press, and the other needs an entire perk out of a 4 perk loadout.
The DS comparison is absolutely valid, especially since a lot of the argument for the PGTW change is about how killers can chain the perk across different gens (remember, you can't use it twice on the same gen unless a survivor taps it to prevent regression, which oh by the way takes no time or locked animation to do) which actually encourages them to leave the hook and patrol asap and go to other parts of the map.
Survivors want the killer to be forced to use pop before starting any chases, giving them an even larger head start. Killers want the DS timer nerfed so survivors can't enjoy 60 seconds of god mode. The whole "time to do other things" argument is laughable when survivors can latch onto gens and hide in lockers while enjoying their immunity.
16 -
It's not guaranteed because people miss it. I didn't ignore but chose not to waste my time debating about DS, a point I made clear. So while you're calling me a hypocrite, next time read what someone said. I just find it funny and made that point. You can compare and debate with a willing participate but don't confuse my disinterest in wasting time with this topic as a sign of lacking merit. Your arguments don't move me, as I already stated. You make a lot of generalized statements, both over and under inclusive about Survivors as if they are a monolith. You've convinced yourself of "god mode" so I know where you stand, not wasting my time.
0 -
TBH all they need to do is make it so that DS's timer expires if a survivor gets on a gen or totem, or gets in a locker. Even with that, I would be much more fine with the timer staying at 60 seconds.
7 -
Anyone who thinks DS can't have a huge impact on the outcome of the game is insane. It being a one-time use doesn't make it weak. It completely changes how any and all skilled killers play the entirety of the game from the moment the first unhook happens until the end of the match. Eating a DS can shift the momentum tremendously as it undoes an entire chase, eating multiple decisive strikes can utterly wreck you. Leaving the survivor slugged is a huge risk because of unbreakable and now soul guard, which is going to be used even MORE than it already is because anyone still running pop is now being unintentionally encouraged to swap over to ruin/undying.
So you can't hook, you can't slug unless you want to hover over a downed person for the better part of a minute and let the rest of the team run away with the match... but yeah, it's no biggie. Just a weak little one-time use perk with a suuuuuper hard skillcheck that people miss like, totally every single day, despite the fact that unlike other skillchecks that are randomly timed surprises with exterior pressure to heighten the tension, this one happens at the exact same time when picked up and you literally can't do anything except the skillcheck, so missing it means you should probably just uninstall because there was quite literally nothing else for you to do.
Pop, on the other hand... Lead the killer far away from progressed gens. That way they waste a ton of time going back to one they actually want to kick. Wow, they kicked it! 20 whole seconds if one person repairs it. Except there's a team of 4 people, so 20 seconds regression on a single gen isn't a huge deal unless you're letting them chain-kick and it's the end of the game, and this change does absolutely nothing to change that version of pop, which is when it's at its most oppressive.
RIP low mobility killers, you've just had your options reduced dramatically with pop. My Blight continues to not give a #########, because I can down the entire team and still make it back in time for a 45 second pop. Keep on nerfing slow killers so no one ever plays them! Good stuff.
8 -
I mean, you're putting more effort into complaining that you don't want to address DS, when thats been a pretty big part of the topic overall: the misguided nature of the dev logic in regards to PGTW, when it applies as much (if not moreso) to DS. Stop projecting that i'm "not listening" when you're making entire posts about how you don't want to listen to anything you disagree with. Thats not how ideas are exchanged.
9 -
I've heard it all, nothing you nor anyone else here hasn't already been said is my point. I just find it funny and that's what I stated. Every topic shifts to keys, mori's, IH, and DS, etc. Until I see new material or arguments made, not interested in regurgitating the same talking points. Feel free to do so but no thanks.
0 -
This makes playing killer even harder than it was. When will you nerf some of the survivors perks like unbreakable and decisive strike?
5 -
I find the Devs complete silence on the DS replies to be.....
Quite amusing, if not offensive as well.
23 -
Kill rates are high because surviving isn't required to pip.
I have had many games where i killed all 4 survivors after the gens are done and the doors are 99 because they wanted to save someone instead of just leaving.
If death caused a depip or only a safety pip like not killing survivors does to killers then we would see different results.
3 -
you could leave down another guy pop a gen hook him pop another gen and continue with just a wave of pressure that unless your on comms you couldnt really do anything, i do think their are perks that shouldve had higher priorities than pop looking at you ds
1 -
Or maybe it is cause most fun for survivors come from saving others/running the killer. If everything was only about do the gens, leave the game that game would've been dead long ago. Ever thought about that ?
0 -
Killers want the DS timer nerfed so survivors can't enjoy 60 seconds of god mode.
If only DS was just god mode, but it's more than that.
- you can sit on a gen and if the killer goes for a grab instead of downing you they get stunned
- you can vault and if the game triggers a grab instead of a normal attack then the killer gets stunned
- you can sit on a gen, killer finds and hooks another survivor, tries to pick you up with 1 second of DS left and they get stunned
- you can get unhooked near a gate and DS gives you a free escape because either the killer gets stunned and ######### or you can just run out the gate while they are stunned
- you can jump into a locker with Iron Will where the killer can't see but hear you and even if the killer specifically does not want to pick you up (due to DS) they can't tell which survivor is in the locker if you have Iron Will and get stunned if they pick you up
- multiple survivors using the same outfit? Killer can't tell who is who without downing them first, and then they can't pick you up because of DS
- killer wants to not have their own and your time wasted and decides to pick you up after the only other survivor died but you still have DS? Well that was stupid of them! But if they let you bleed out you will spam them with death threats for slugging. Amazing!
If DS was purely defensive it might be okay. But it is not.
It's basically a star from Mario games: No one touch you, and if anyone tries to touch you they die / get stunned.
13 -
The map can be traversed with excessive ease within 45 seconds. If pop is active, you'll have a gen in mind to use it on (usually) and you'll get to disrupt the progress just fine unless repressed alliance is used, which would have the same effect with the 60 second timer.
Most killers that use Pop are almost exclusively the high mobility ones, so they'll get there in no time anyway. If its a low mobility killer, they still can traverse at there base or slightly slower speed.
0 -
I honestly dont mind the pop change,its not really a big deal,and this will make killers go for gens more when having pop,I've seen so many killers running pop running around without a care because they had 1 minute to decide what gen to pop,if they wanna chase and everything,I honestly like all the upcoming changes in the ptb and hope more perks and maps will be reworked,a step in the right direction if you ask me,still waiting for that ds nerf and all the survivor meta perks that haven't been properly balanced in the past.
0 -
Cough cough hooks by gens cough cough
0 -
@Almo Not responding to this is basically the same as admitting you know there's nothing you can say to justify this.
@Peanits @not_Queen We deserve a response.
The "here we go" moment started with Almo's post. He walked RIGHT into that trap. They even built the trap themselves. It's kind of like setting a mouse trap and immediately stepping in it.
Dollars to donuts they won't have it in them to respond in a way that doesn't completely dodge the point.
24 -
I would be agree with infinite timer unless they dont make any action outta vault and pallet drop or get healthy status effect.
0 -
Not responding is just not responding. Saying we (forum users) engaged in bad faith by setting "traps" just guarantees we'll get fewer responses from now on, because they'll assume we're being dishonest about our intentions.
3 -
It's fine when i have DS i will still do gens in the killers face pop it get slugged and get back up with unbreakable or DS the killer and take them on as long a chase a possible lol.
I love having 60 secs of not giving a ######### and doing what i want.
Anti-tunnel perk btw
6 -
Nope, they just get downed again before the timer runs out, sometimes you down one survivor, sometimes two inbetween and you still get hit by it. This is especially fun when they wear the same outfit. Most of the survivors do not bring this perk due to tunneling but because it is busted af and they know it. Tunneling is just a claim to legitimize that perk.
2 -
What's the big deal? 15s nerf. Not that big of a deal to me.
0 -
It's not though, no need to pretend
0 -
It's not that they nerfed it. It's the reasoning given for nerfing it...which could, and should also be applied to DS, because it offers the same luxury, but about 5x stronger of an effect. It's made even worse because the killer has to earn their ability to use Pop Goes the Weasel. With DS, survivors are given it's ability of invulnerability for free simply because they made a bad play and got caught.
13 -
I mean even you have to agree on the irony that pops getting nerfed because "you could do so much in 60 seconds" *points at ds*
5 -
Obviously, but I fell for it. Dam
1 -
The thing is I'm not even that fussed about DS and I get why it exists but that explanation was a very poor one they gave as it perfectly sums up DS.
The other day I had 3 gens left on pale rose. Hook a survivor. He's unhooked and I don't go near him, he's healed and I don't go near him, he has nothing else to do so he continues playing the game i.e. finding a gen to work on, I go over to the gen on the pier because I want to check on it and as I walk up I see him bolt for the locker, pull him out and yup I take a DS. I wasn't even looking for or after this guy I was just trying to defend the generator which as killer is my role.
How is it not the exact same problem that they had with Pop goes the weasel?
7 -
If DS were an actual true anti-tunneling perk I would probably never get hit by it ever again. Unfortunately right now its a slap in the face with the devs standing holding up a waggling finger like "nuh uh uh. You're doing too well. Gotta give the survivors a little extra hand. *shrug*"
7 -
I'm an avid supporter of DS but I don't agree with their reasoning behind the Pop nerf.
It makes 0 sense.
0 -
Pop is meta. Neft Ds and kill rate go to 90%. I hope ds neft to make more skill survivor play but is not gonna happens
0 -
God, if only that line of thought was used for DS. Funny how that works, huh?
10 -
People comparing DS and Pop which is hilarious because DS is monumentally stronger even if Pop was 120 seconds of use. DS needs to be looked at and hopefully it will
10 -
So are you going to change DS because it just gives 60 second immunity without conditions? Like turn the timer infinite in chase BUT DS-deactivates the second you go touch a generator etc.
3 -
This is a case of Us vs Them, how dare you touch my timer on my perk when the other side has a timer.
The two perks are nowhere similar and I find amusement they are compared.
DS has already been nerfed heavily 3 times, I don't think it needs looked at. Killers do need to grow a pair and stop asking for survivors to be dead on a silver platter.
0
