So.. pop is nerfed because killers are too good?

>ds pfp

he has a point

lets look at this line for a second:

"If the killer is hooking survivors so fast then anti-momentum is a good thing to give the survivors hope"

sure, I think you'll find that killers are all for games lasting longer. while we're at it, can we make gens take longer if they get done too quickly?

This has to be the most contradictory thing I´ve read in 2020. You just described the choice and said there is no choice.

Hilarious 😂

I use Pop quiet often as a killer and I agree with the nerf.

Next.

This is off the top of my head.

KILLER

Spies From The Shadows had it's radius buffed for a bit, then nerfed back down. (Shame because I thought it went from "Bad" to "pretty good" during that period, as a neat counterpart to Whispers)

Enduring was changed several times and now ONLY affects pallet stuns, not wiggle outs, DS's, or Head Ons. (Although the stun reduction was buffed a bit IIRC)

NOED was made a hex rather than a timed thing.

Ruin was reworked, lost most of it's effectiveness.

Not so much a big nerf but Unnerving Presence no longer affects Decisive Strike skillchecks IIRC nor does it it affect jigsaw boxes.

Unrelenting used to reduce the cooldown from attacks that did hit, was changed because of people comboing it with the old STBFL for the machine gun build.

Dying Light was reworked, like Ruin it lost most of it's effectiveness.

Remember Me had the effect halfed IIRC because "What if the killer gets max stacks, kills everyone, and closes hatch"

Gearhead and Hangman's Trick was nerfed from the PTB.

Iron Grasp had it's effect SEVERELY nerfed. OG Iron Grasp was back when survivors could perma-break hooks though so it evens out.

iron Maiden was nerfed so it doesn't affect pulling people out of lockers.

Surveilience was recently nerfed so generators no longer stay white when fully regressed.

I'm sure there's more.

SURVIVORS

Self-Care was nerfed.

DS was reworked (Still remains a bit of a problem.)

Mettle Of Man was gutted. (OG MoM was more busted than old DS)

Balanced Landing doesn't reduce staggering from falls when exhausted anymore.

Borrowed Time no longer affects the unhooker.

Leader and Prove Thyself lost a little bit of effectiveness and leader no longer affects gen speeds.

Sabo was reworked several times. (I remember the days when it could perma-break hooks)

Exhaustion perks in general were nerfed since exhaustion doesn't recover when running anymore.

Object of Obsession (And general killer aura reading perks) were nerfed somewhat by the undetectable status effect.

I think overall the nerf "Amount" is around the same, but the killer nerfs often feel like they hit things that didn't need nerfing

On the whole DS vs Pop timing thing.

As survivor, I can go through multiple matches without ever having the opportunity to use DS.

As killer, if I brought Pop then I'm using Pop... multiple times.

You know there's this other gen regress perk that everyone has seem to forgotten about. Surge. Why not buff it so it triggers on any attack instead of just basics? That'd be a nice change and it might incentivize more people to run it. Nerfing pop is just gonna make more people use ruin/undying and if they nerf that....well they'll just go back to using pop or continue using ruin/undying anyway.

roast of the century

Seriously on this one, I played a match as Legion on Dead Dawg's Saloon, hooked a Claudette and she got unhooked almost immediately. I spent forever chasing two others, got them taken down finally and hooked, found her again and downed her as she opened the exit door in the end game. I picked her up and she still D-Striked me after all that. If they say Pop has too long a time, then so does D-Strike.

That's why most people are calling for it to simply be added back as a built-in to prevent killers tunneling a survivor for 15 seconds after they come off the hook. Killers complained about OG Decisive, so it was made a pay-to-play perk. Now that survivors have 60 seconds (typically, if I don't suck in chases, I never get to use it anyway), it's still a problem to killers. Yes, survivors are using the perk offensively. Most killers can typically determine that, particularly in red ranks, but the difference between Pop and DS will always be the fact that DS can only be used ONCE. Pop can be chained. Ds still poses a risk, since most killers will just slug anyway. Slugging a survivor is actually mroe time-consuming to other players than hooking them anyway, because it takes a bit to be able to be picked up, and if the killer is paying attention, they can go smack them back down, thereby keeping them useless. Notice how, whenever killers are losing matches, they simply resort to slugging everyone. I would be absolutely fine with DS going back to 15 seconds after coming off a hook, but for every hook. If killers get the choice to camp hooks or tunnel, then yes, survivors should get the choice to use a perk that counters that. Asking that killers be able to do that, AS WELL AS removing any survivor counters isn't cool.

Anybody who argues that the counter is for other survivors to work on gens fails to understand that, because of the ranking system, it isn't just about the team's performance, but it's about your own. Getting caught once shouldn't be a game over for you as the player. Because of the ranking system, survivors now require perks that benefit them personally, and that includes protections against camping/tunneling.

Exactly. Even if killers want to argue that it's a crutch "second chance" perk, that's fine. Survivors deserve second chances against killers who try to turn 3 hooks into one hook staring at a killer's face.

Like decisive strike?

Because ds is and always been a problem. I guess survivors should grow a pair and deal with a hard killer to go against. And stop asking for nerfs to killer abilities, and more on to the next they want easy mode to play against.

I only remembered what this thread was after commenting that, it was just an instinctive reponse

And? Each survivor has to worry about themselves, thanks to the ranking system. Unless they are a full SWF, it is more likely that the other survivors will ruin your game than anything. Most of the issues I have in my games aren't due to the killer, but due to the other randoms I get matched with. They may as well be on a team with the killer. 4 survivors doesn't automatically mean an advantage. It can very much cost you games.

It activates twice, and can only actually be used once. Yes, multiple players can have it, but again, thanks to the ranking system, it's every man for himself. Survivors aren't working as a team, so much as they are all working for themselves, because winning is irrelevant, as long as they can achieve that pip. They have to compete against the killer and against each other to rank. As for your 1v4 argument, I repeatedly have to remind people that 3 other survivors isn't necessarily an advantage, unless you're a SWF. More often, it's the other survivors, not the killer, that ruin my matches. Most of the success survivors see in matches revolves around them coordinating successfully enough to finish the gens and get out. If your'e all solo, you have to do that without being able to communicate at all. The end result is survivors running the killer at you while you're working on gens, sitting in a corner doing nothing, pulling you off hooks in front of the killer's face (without borrowed time), walking up to the gen you're almost finished, blowing it, and then walking away, etc. Your math seems to argue around the coordination expected of a SFW team that is actively communicating throughout the match. Very rarely are a group of randoms coordinating and splitting gens. People like Otz are the best of the best, as it is, and are typically matched with red-rank full SFWs, and he STILL wins 90% of his matches. Using people like Otz to make an argument goes both ways, since the guy makes most survivors he plays against look like absolute tools, which people like me could argue as justification to actually buff many of these perks, not nerf them.