Using Self Care = Admitting you are bad

Raziel said:

@Rebel_Raven said:
One of the major objectives of a survivor is to buy time to get generators done.
Self care helps buy that time. It's good to waste the killer's time as much as possible.

It also works to the killer's advantage if they capitalize as certain perks counter it, and it also gives the killer more time to hook people.

Asking survivors to please make the game easier on you via insulting them to stop using self care will probably fall on deaf ears.
Lets be real. Survivors are less likely to follow the rules of killers than vice versa. Killers have shown some courtesies from time to time.

Hiding doesn't work too well, flat out running doesn't work too well, lithe is getting screwed by dwindling vaulting points. Stealth is not as easy as all that either, and the slow go route offers the least reward for the risk.
Sure, lets take more tools from the survivors to make it harder for them to survive. Pretending otherwise is pretty laughable. Even if some people can do it, aptitudes vary.

And no, I'm not a survivor main . I play both sides, and not much bothers me aside from SWF.

The problem I see in your argument is that the game, at the very least, promises stealth and then fails to deliver. Should BHVR not fix that first, instead of letting it be broken and giving us other kinds of crutches to stay alive?

I can agree with the lack of decent stealth, but they got rid of those notions with some of the very first killers.
Wraith with bloodhound, and seeing scratches better makes escape damn near impossible.
Sure, don't get seen in the first place, and never run? Easier said than done. Especially since there is an ability that lets him see people while cloaked.

Nurses calling? It's a huge counter to SC unless you're playing against the handful that know both well enough to dodge the perk.

Stealth is not well rewarded as impatience often overpowers the desire to crouch walk, or even walk for the most part.
Me playing stealth is near useless because the other survivors will gladly blow it.

There a ton of really powerful tracking abilities the killer has that makes stealthy approaches a joke. 
If you play a stealth game successfully, you can probably thank someone for being a distraction.
And because killers can quickly find survivors, the pace of the game changes which means it goes by too fast.
With few to no equalizers, survivors would just get slaughtered. They get slaughtered, they get angry, they complain or quit.
So they get perks like self care, which makes some sense as people in their position would probably learn to heal themselves anyhow.
If games end too quick and one sided, the game lacks balance. It will die.

Situation:you have no Self Care, one survivour is dead, one is being chased, you're injured. Instead of selfhealing for 24 seconds, you run around the map searching for another teammate or a chest (good luck getting a medkit or even a closed chest). And no, Bond doesn't help at all here, because of it's 32 meter radius which is OK on smaller maps, like Gideon Meat Plant, and absolutely unusable on larger ones, like Pale Rose or Lery's Memorial Institute. Good luck finding that survivour! And you could've just healed for 24 seconds and started repairing already, or even saved that chased guy from being downed!

Oh, and have fun playing with BBQ without ability to self-heal.

Also ruin is pointless because if you run it people hit any glowing totems and as I'm a devour hope user that fs me over immediately as I'm trying to have a fun game to make them take time and hide not just oh we got ruin theres a lit OMG not ruin lol (though its easy to tell somone is running dh if they religiously defend a totem)

SoylentPixie said:

@DocOctober said:
Often it's not the Killer who's the biggest threat to a solo-Surv, it's the other Survivors.

This right here. The way things are now when playing solo survivor, is that 80% of the time I'm more scared of my team mates than i am of the killer, for several reasons.

At the end of the day i'll say the same here as i did in the thread about NOED apparently being a noob perk. Like it or not, it IS a perk and it will be used. You can point and tell me that I'm bad at the game and that won't make a damn bit of difference to me. I'm not here to impress people with my L33T skillz, I'm here to have fun. Sometimes it'll backfire on me and i'll get caught by an enterprising killer with nurses, tough luck to me. If a survivor wants to heal me outside of an obvious danger zone, i'll gladly let them heal me rather than use SC, but the odds aren't always going to be in my favour on that score.

So am I a noob for using them at purple ranks as I'm trying to hit redrank?

@redsopine1 said:
SoylentPixie said:

@DocOctober said:

Often it's not the Killer who's the biggest threat to a solo-Surv, it's the other Survivors.

This right here. The way things are now when playing solo survivor, is that 80% of the time I'm more scared of my team mates than i am of the killer, for several reasons.

At the end of the day i'll say the same here as i did in the thread about NOED apparently being a noob perk. Like it or not, it IS a perk and it will be used. You can point and tell me that I'm bad at the game and that won't make a damn bit of difference to me. I'm not here to impress people with my L33T skillz, I'm here to have fun. Sometimes it'll backfire on me and i'll get caught by an enterprising killer with nurses, tough luck to me. If a survivor wants to heal me outside of an obvious danger zone, i'll gladly let them heal me rather than use SC, but the odds aren't always going to be in my favour on that score.

So am I a noob for using them at purple ranks as I'm trying to hit redrank?

Uuuuummmm since my point was that neither perk is a noob perk....no?

@Raziel no Ed =your bad

Self care is kinda a double edged sword. Yes it is slow and going to be even slower in upcoming patch but still a good perk considering how often you get bad team mates. SC is great especially if you can loop well and break chases efficiently. It makes you a bit independent and can help you carry your team. Another minor advantage is that you can strategize usage of other perks like Resilience, Dead Hard i.e deciding when to completely heal yourself etc which wouldn't be easier if you try to get healed by your team.

It would be unwise not to bring self care as it works against freddy. You cannot put yourself in those risky positions you sometimes need to put yourself in. Survivors kinda rely on it and should maybe be part of survivors base kit with how frequent it is used as a perk.

It doesn't take skill to kill someone with self care, it takes time if they get the heal off. 

It requires less skill because you are making yourself more obvious to the killer when used. 

I've kinda lost track of who thinks what so sorry if I've ignored every other comment before my comment.

@Raziel said:

@chococri said:
Raziel said:

@SenzuDuck said:

Let people use what they want, simple.

I am not saying don't use it. I am saying don't pretend it's not OP.

It's not. When you use it you make a lot of noise and gives to the killer a clue of where are you at. Are you sick of that perk? Use Thanatophobia and Franklin's Desmise. 

Read the main post. I can work around SC just fine as killer. I analysed it from a survivor's perspective and concluded that it supplements lack of survivor skill. Regardless of whether the killer is skilled enough to counter it it makes the game unfair. You have to face the killer not let your perks do it.

I swear it's like nobody can read anything longer than 2 lines.

I don't think it's a matter of not being skilled enough. There's been enough times that my teammates refused to heal me up that I'm tempted to make it part of my loadout. I normally don't, preferring to use that slot for something more beneficial such as We'll Make It, BT or UE.

Really, it's more of a Skilled Suvivor Perk imo. You have to be skilled enough to lose the Killer for enough time to use it, and it takes a long time to fully heal. Either that or you have to be skilled enough to lose the Killer, or provide a worse target, after an unhook to use it as well. n00b Survivors will mostly have it be a wasted slot since they'll never really be in a position to utilize it.

Overall, I'd rank it in with BBQ, NOED, etc etc. Each one is useful in specific circumstances, but they aren't active the entire match like Whispers for example. Definitely roughly the same in terms of power and usefulness. imo at least.

@chococri said:
Mringasa said:

@Raziel said:

 @chococri said:

Raziel said:

@SenzuDuck said:

Let people use what they want, simple.

I am not saying don't use it. I am saying don't pretend it's not OP.

It's not. When you use it you make a lot of noise and gives to the killer a clue of where are you at. Are you sick of that perk? Use Thanatophobia and Franklin's Desmise. 

Read the main post. I can work around SC just fine as killer. I analysed it from a survivor's perspective and concluded that it supplements lack of survivor skill. Regardless of whether the killer is skilled enough to counter it it makes the game unfair. You have to face the killer not let your perks do it.

I swear it's like nobody can read anything longer than 2 lines.

I don't think it's a matter of not being skilled enough. There's been enough times that my teammates refused to heal me up that I'm tempted to make it part of my loadout. I normally don't, preferring to use that slot for something more beneficial such as We'll Make It, BT or UE.

Really, it's more of a Skilled Suvivor Perk imo. You have to be skilled enough to lose the Killer for enough time to use it, and it takes a long time to fully heal. Either that or you have to be skilled enough to lose the Killer, or provide a worse target, after an unhook to use it as well. n00b Survivors will mostly have it be a wasted slot since they'll never really be in a position to utilize it.

Overall, I'd rank it in with BBQ, NOED, etc etc. Each one is useful in specific circumstances, but they aren't active the entire match like Whispers for example. Definitely roughly the same in terms of power and usefulness. imo at least.

I know, right? You can't trust your mates, I'm always afraid they will do risky unhooks or some dumb actions. Exactly what you said. 

I use it because it's way too often I get pulled of the hook, the killer is damaging another player and the one who unhooks me sprints to the other side of the map.

@Raziel said:
90 Posts and I can only count strawman arguments. Sadly, this did not turn out to be a real debate. Might as well call it quits. Nobody has even tried to touch the most compelling argument against Self Care:

A REAL debate literally consists of opposing arguments. You don't want someone to change your mind you want people to agree with you, and like so many others on this forum, not agreeing with you equates to nobody being good enough.

The 'compelling' argument is YOUR view point. This isn't to say that the people who oppose you are right and you are wrong, but the fact that you call this a debate and then make a sweeping generalisation that every opposing argument is a 'straw man' argument, pretty much looses any credibility your viewpoint has.

If you just want to say that SC is bad and you don't like it, then just say it, don't ask people to 'change your mind' just so you can crap all over their posts because not enough people are agreeing with you.

@Raziel said:

My main argument is that I am a good survivor and I do not need Self Care at all. It has nothing to do with playing Killer.

My point is that your argument is biased and full of holes just because you don't run SC doesn't make you a good survivor. So the question becomes what perks do you use and if you say DS and or SB you're whole argument just went out the window.

I use self care with were gonna live forever. I take hits for survivors to get my tokens for WGLF so need to try and evade killer then heal up. Don't make me a bad player. Alternative is bond to SC to look for friend to heal me