Official Survey - Select a killer you feel is not effective or too oppressive
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/BHVR-PSAT
Whelp here's your chance... Maybe Clown, Trapper or Wraith will get touched next.
Meanwhile in the nerf wheel: "Is Spirit the next on the chopping block?" Or will they opt for the far weaker "Deathslinger" next?
My personal take.
Trapper is just clunky to play at the moment with RNG riding from the moment you spawn into the map for trap locations, how quickly survivors struggle out, having to wear a minimum brown bag (unless they're running Iris Stone to auto reset) etc. Needs some QoL changes.
Clown needs to not be a weaker huntress and have "something" else in his kit other than "I throw gas and walk back and forth to judge distance for M1 at loops" then slowly trudge across impossibly big maps. Maybe he's easier to use for chases (even with Pinky Finger addon which increases his skill ceiling a bit) for console players but a very dry 115% movement speed experience. Wraith (with Windstorm) is actually more fun for me to play personally even if he is weak in his own way of not being able to really do much with his power once you actively get to the chase.
Spirit is currently one of my favorite killers to play and one that is definitely the most abuseable currently due to a perk called Stridor. People will cry that audio bugs makes Stridor unreliable to use but I'm yet to really have issues with a few hundred games running it. I don't even have trouble finding healthy survivors trying to play Hide and Seek with me (if they're not in a locker) while I run Stridor, Whispers and Mother Daughter Ring (I don't even need scratch marks). The fact that I can do short phase walks at 236% movement speed (not just the 176% of base Spirit) and accurately hit people consecutively is borderline abusive - I don't even bother kicking most pallets on the map unless my power is down and I HAVE to chase as a 110% for a bit.
The predictive element in her kit has be played up - release Spirit was considered weak because people didn't have enough games to realize how PINPOINT accurate you could still hear people during phase... She was annoying with the old Prayer beads but only being able to juke somewhat newer Spirits was a larger issue.
Anyways - the people crying about not being able to hear phase sounds and getting grabbed off pallets by the "standing still" mind game aren't really aware why that's so easy to pull off... the danger of a phase hit is high because of how accurate tracking is through sound alone - forcing them into thinking it's a lose/lose.
This is of course talking about killers who have 1000+ hours and can actually make use of this. Plenty of Lower "skilled" Spirits bomb out and juked themselves and don't run Stridor for reasons (on principle or not knowing how good it is), because I lead them around for 5 gens too... these aren't the Spirit players you should be balancing around.
Comments
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Thank you for sharing this, I had no idea it was out today
Just because I might as well, my personal two choices were Wraith (not effective enough) and Spirit (too oppressive). I've got experience playing as and against both at length, Wraith significantly more than Spirit, and that's my opinion on it all.
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I did Demogorgon and Freddy, respectively.
DG is pretty fun for both sides, but I feel it's let down by wimpy personal perks, mostly ineffective add-ons, and a tendency to give WAY too much information to the survivors through audio (though I almost wonder if making his sounds global in more of a Bone Clapper-style "maybe I'm right behind you" sense could improve this in a fun way). Plus its primary power, the portals, are incredibly slow to set up and make use of. These are probably the weakest form of "trap" in DbD.
Freddy isn't as "will they won't they" with his power as Spirit and Deathslinger (though he CAN do this a little bit with Dream Projection), but he is incredibly dull to play against. Doesn't help that most of the popular Freddy builds are geared towards drawing out every match for as long as possible. I guess I don't specifically perceive him as OP (despite him having a ridiculous amount of utility through his abilities), but his power(s) aren't really entertaining to play around or interact with.
I'd bet Spirit will be the most popular pick for "too oppressive" right now, but I think she would be a relatively easy killer to "fix" by just improving the information she provides when using her power (just remove her Husk and maybe add a glass-shattering cue). I don't think she needs a big rework or any major nerfs; it just needs to be far more obvious when she's phasewalking and vaulting windows (because why she also gets this specific and weird advantage is beyond me).
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I wanted to say Clown needs the buff I really did but I can’t help but feel Trapper is the most worthless sack of spuds in the game right now so I voted for him.
Indoor maps with no grass, survivors being able to dead hard over traps, and most importantly survivors getting out of traps in under 3 seconds everytime. He might as well not have a power.
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I would say wraith or trapper, they are the 2 originals that new players will pick first and sucks that as these new players learn enough about the game that these 2 killers aren't worth taking compared to other killers like Ghostface or Hag which do what they do but way better.
I have an affection for Trapper since i played him so much when i was first starting and still do but i see the reality and feel it when i get stomped cause i'm punished for using and finding my power lol.
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Funny I also picked Trapper, the thing is I dont really believe he is weak but he is WAY too clunky to play, the whole go to the middle of nowhere, pick your trap, go set it where you need it, rinse and repeat needs some changes.
He doesnt need buffs, he needs to be less clunky to play with.
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"too oppressive"
isn't the point of having survivors.. to stress them out? is that not the theme of the game?
so how can something be too much of what you're trying to achieve
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Can´t wait for the results!
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Probably why they left that "None" option in there for killers who are tired of getting nerf after nerf - but you know how opinionated everyone here is about nerfing this or that.
No comments about the Shape needing that Tier 1 Rework (I agree it needs to be something... it's already hindering a pretty vanilla killer) or conceding that it's slightly less of a priority? :P
Would be curious to what other killers feel about the "oppressive" choice as well or are you guys going for "None"?
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Do you, when you find out who the killer is feel like there is a chance of escape outside of a hatch?
If yes, then they're probably fine.
If no, they are too oppressive.
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I put Wraith as ineffective because I'm biased towards him, but I couldn't decide between him and the Trapper. They both received an addon rework, but I think they need another one since they both rely too much on addons and they feel bad to play without those which change the base power (in particular Trapper's bags and Windstorm/Shadowdance).
As for too oppressive, Freddy without a doubt. He is very fun to play, but he has too much going for him with very little requirement.
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No, actually, the point of the game is to try and escape the killer/kill all 4 survivors. Which is supposed to be reasonably possible. Which against many characters or in many situations, it simply isnt.
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Too much of something good can be bad, exercise is good for you but exercise too much and your muscles will break, water is good for you too, drink 10 litres in the span 2 hours and see what happens.
Being too oppresive is good for Killers, be way too oppresive and Survivors will refuse to play and suicide on hook or DC like they did with original Legion, also this is a game, both sides must have fun playing it.
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For ineffective I put Myers as by the time he's hit tier 3 he's usually gen rushed out of existence. He needs a rework for his stealth so it doesn't take so long to build up.
For oppressive I put Deathslinger simply because of how much zoning he does. Y'know how he aims at you so you zig zig only for him to cancel his aim in a second and M1's instead, he gets so much free zoning. They just fixed it for Pyramid Head so he's not as bad now. Now they just need to add a delay to him cancelling his aim.
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It probably won't go down like this but the Deathslinger fix that makes the most sense to me is:
He goes from a 110% -> 115% killer when his harpoon is not ready and he chooses not to reload.
His quick scope to aim down sight remains as that is the most rewarding part of his kit - just add a delay for when he cancels his aim before he can quick scope again by another 1.5 or 2s so it isn't a constant zoning game to try and close distance rather than forcing him to take the shot. He should be rewarding to take risks not more rewarding to not in most cases since you can swing then still have your harpoon for a follow up - the preferred way to approach a down on DS at the moment when combined with STBFL.
The movement speed buff is to make up for him being a weaker huntress in a lot of regards and help him get around the map even slightly better. Both him and Huntress are 110% but highly skilled Huntresses create pressure with cross maps... Deathslinger has 18m and a smaller terror radius as his only weapons forcing him to run M&A to make even more use of that.
Post edited by ZCerebrate on1 -
I did the thing. I was very Respetful.
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I noticed the typos in question 39 too... S0mwhat and how Modernity so you think this is?
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I also put trapper as not effective enough. Though I put Freddy as too oppressive.
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That's what I was saying about his aim, just add a 2 delay before he can scope again and he'll be fine. Don't agree with the movement speed change, that'll just encourage to use his power less and M1 more.
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I went for Trapper and Freddy.
Trapper mostly because he is THE Killer in DBD, the most iconic one, the first one... I dont think he is too weak, but they can improve his Kit. (Weakest is Clown, but they are working on him already)
Most Oppressive was Freddy, simply because I wish you would need more than 2 Braincells to play him. And IMO he got too much when they reworked him, most Killers either have high mobility or a strong Chase Power, he got both.
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Freddy may be braindead, but I don't see how his rework was "too much" killers should have versatile kits like Freddy, and I think every killer should be buffed to his level. Do you know why everyone thinks Billy is balanced? Because he has a versatile kit, that is fair for both sides.
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If people want to completely play a 115% M1 killer without his power at all then that's really not a problem... he's considered weak because his ability to map pressure is abysmal that they feel his chase "has to be" strong and oppressive. Which I sort of agree with because the best strategy to just crush a Deathslinger is to power gens and leave, not giving him chases at all if possible
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I picked pig and clown. I was going to pick trapper or wraith for underpowered and spirit, Deathslinger or Freddy for oppressive but I figured they'd already have the lion's share of votes.
Pig because she's screwed a lot by rng and her add-ons need reworking. She just needs some love.
Clown because he's boring to play as and against. He has a very straightforward and dull power, with barely any counterplay. I think oppressive is the perfect word to describe him. If you don't drop predrop pallets and play super safe he can force hits but that means he becomes very dull to play against. I also find him dull to play as because he's not only weak but he is very single sided. There's not alot of ways to play him or different sides besides gas and hit. He's not a strong killer by any means but with the potential upcoming buffs I'm worried he's going to end up even less fun. I wish they'd rework him and give him a more clown-esque power tbh.
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I put down Hag for the most oppressive, because Spirit is only oppressive in a chase and everyone is going to vote for her.
I foresee that all the strong killer bandwagoners are going to jump straight onto Hag, as a few videos and a small number of games are going to be required to get used to her power unlike Nurse who requires months of dedication. Also, her sheer ability to hook-camp via proxy is just ridiculous. Place 3-5 traps at their feet and wonder why people complain about you!
People can complain all they want, but my frustrations are experienced a lot and especially by newer killers.
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I wouldn't pick clown, huntress, or Myres cause the devs are looking at changing them
Post edited by oh_0k on0 -
Myers / Freddy
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Seems awfully assuming of you that "looking into it" means these changes are coming front loaded soon...
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Her ability isn't that hard to use, I say that as someone who mained hag before her rework. People really over exaggerate how much skill she takes in my opinion..
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It's not about her skill cap, it's more the free hooks because traps and hooks. Same as Spirit standing still and getting free hits.
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That's something that has always fascinated me. What in the world do survivors even want from this game? I play survivor, I want a tense game. That was the appeal to me when I picked up this game. I wonder if killers and survivors expect different things from this game or maybe the developers have this outdated vision for DBD that no longer applies today. I think if we nail that then both sides would be happy.
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Yeah your right these killers are never gonna change ever
Huntress will always have a wrong amount of addons and iri head
Myres will always be a weak oni
Clown will always be the worst killer in the game
Im so sorry for thinking the devs would change things in this game ever.
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Strange. When I watch Scott Jund play, even he doesn't have pinpoint accuracy with Spirit. He suggests to use it in short bursts to catch up to the survivor rather than get a hit directly out of it. I have legitimately never seen a Spirit that gets a hit directly out of Phase more than 50% of the time.
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It's also because he doesn't turn his volume up to 11 and has to manage his stream/interaction with his viewers if he is streaming. He's a far better killer than me and he could 100% pull it off if he wanted to. Even short bursts with an activation addon + stridor and even when missing a hit or two can still result in less than 40s chases anyway without running an Iris addon. Just predictions from like having 5000+ games does that
Post edited by ZCerebrate on0 -
I think clown isn't effective enough, but if they gave him somethingbwhen he steps in his gas cloud that would be cool. Like, 10 second undetectable maybe.
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They already said they are working on Clown so there is no point in putting him in there. Put in a killer you want to see changed.
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@Dwight_Fairfield It's not about them "never" changing anything if that was clearly the sarcasm that I detected there. It's more about what change they will prioritize over the other. It's a pipe dream to think all these things in the pipe for consideration, coding and even up for testing is going to be dropped all at once - perhaps they're asking through the survey for clarity and consideration on what they want to bring in first.
Just because they've said more than a year ago that "Iridescent Heads" for Huntress are going to be looked at and her addons reworked doesn't mean the Billy/Cannibal rework and new releases PH/Blight took priority balancing perhaps to that popular demand
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I hope they give the trapper a bit of tender loving care. He’s the frontman for the band so to say and he’s collected a bit of dust.
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There was no sarcasm. They have literally said they are currently working on Clown. Not that they are going to, or that he's on a list, but that they actually are working on him. So listing him in this survey as your choice when they are already working on him is a waste. Put in another killer you'd like to see, and not one they've already chosen and currently are working on.
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The sarcasm part was for the other guy who I quoted there in that post, that was my mistake for the confusion
Whelp that's nice to know if they've already said Clown is next up for a rework/balancing touch in the next patch / hotfix or midchapter after PH nerf and perks rework goes through - in which case I guess we're just voting for whoever comes after Clown then.
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By far the Trapper need some rework, Wraith need some QOL and would be cool. If you know how to play Wraith you can pretty 2k without NOED and no add ons (by my experience, unless those SWAT teams)
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Seeing people pick Trapper as the least effective - (happy Trapper main noise)
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I play a few matches of Trapper here and there but find in most matches I end up having no access to 2~3 of his traps due to RNG - having people struggle out way too fast... or figuring someone is "too far away" then having them stay in the trap for like a full minute alone. It actually makes me make a lot of bad decisions even if they have "value" anyway and other times you're basically a basic M1 killer if a SWF decides to bully you with OoO and you aren't thinking 2 chess moves ahead to play around them
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I think I went with Trapper as the killer who most needs a buff. Clown is already being worked on but Trapper requires a bit too much fiddling with the traps as a setup and there's a bit of swinginess in where they initially appear and the type of map he's on. I don't know if he's literally the least effective killer overall per se, he's in a group of killers that are "good enough" to win if you outplay the survivors, but I think he might be the one that could use a buff to make him a little more consistent.
If I had to pick a killer to revamp, though, it would be Nurse. Not for balance but simply because her blink stun mechanic is one of the most annoying killer mechanics in the game. Who actually thinks that staring at your feet for 1/3 of the match would be fun? Compare Nurse to Blight, for instance - he is frequently stunned as well but the stun is a bit shorter and he doesn't need to be stunned in chases, he can just run down people at 115% movement speed. Or compare her to Legion, they have a long stun but you only have to deal with it once a minute or so. Nurse is stunned literally every 5-10 seconds or so, it's ridiculous. I wish they would at least let you keep your head up so you could look around while stunned, then if that's too powerful just make her blinks refresh a bit slower to compensate.
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Wraith and Spirit.
They're literal polar opposites.
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Trapper and Spirit.
They are so far apart power wise it´s not even funny. I hope they find a way to tune Spirit down without gutting her if they decide to address the issue.
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The "I have no options" because she can hear me thing is the only aspect I would personally touch. Most Spirits are "not" a problem because they aren't abusing this part of her current kit properly.
Going as far as disabling her ability to HEAR anything other than noise explosions and screams (From perks, missed checks or fast actions) including breathing, groans of pain, footsteps during phasewalk would validate everything else in her kit. Not being able to hear phase walks? The stand still mind game, the ability to actually predict survivors off scratch marks (or blood with Father's glasses) alone is powerful but no one near the level of oppressive it would be even against short activation hits. If you're the survivor mind gaming yourself into a standing still spirit at a pallet when the Spirit is just as likely to miss you if you walk or crouch walk around then that was your personal mistake out of fear.
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I put Slinger was too oppressive. Honestly, IMO Freddy is way more oppressive, but I honestly just can't stand Slinger. Everything about him I hate. I think I hate him more than Doc now and that's saying something.
I also put Clown was too weak. It was between him and Demo but I think Clown needs something extra in his kit to give him better map pressure. He is great in a chase he just needs something to really pressure survivors.
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I put in pig as too weak, I feel a few tweaks would make her amazing. The rng is terrible and you have to either have inexperienced players or a dirty playstyle to get reversed beartrap kills. It makes me sad that the 'party hats' are mostly to slow down the game. I love her dash since it does take skill but doesn't have a steap learning curve. Facing her is fun for me.
Too oppressive I put in plague since I hate playing against her and also dislike playing her. I wouldn't mind a complete remake. If you don't cleanse you are one shot and if you do she gets ranged shots... She is horrible to face in solo queue because you need a bit of coördination if you don't want to be annihilated. I usually get teammates that cleanse in the area with all the unfinished gens making it easy pickings.
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What do u mean he got to much in rework, his mobility is fine, and the chase power is a 50/50 also have counter-play, u also need 2 braincells to understand his counter-play. Freddy ia the perfect exaple of what killers should be, not a trashy clown or an abusive spirit. And dont forget freddy was the worst killer in the game. When he was trash no one likes it, when is decent they hate it, most of the ppl doesnt know what they want. No one complaining about nurse, hag or the spirit. Even nurse from max 5 blinks or 3 blinks got nerfed to 2 and fells like nothing was changed.
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Dude thats what I did. Trapper and spirit. Maybe they'll add new skins for trapper and make it so spirit has a 3 minute cool down on her power 😆
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That's a bit much... like I said earlier the only thing I would like to see is either something like audio deafness during phase to reduce the accuracy or at least give the survivors a intermittent blink of a ghostly outline of her when she is phasing so they have have a better prediction on when they need to attempt to juke like Otzdarva suggested. She's really not a problem if she isn't chaining hits (as she is base 110% movement) and flying around the map gen to gen with Mother/Daughter Ring with no real downside atm.
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