http://dbd.game/killswitch
Nerf Spirit (maybe not good idea)
Nerf la Spirit by moving the grass is not a good idea...
If the Spirit moves the grass how is it supposed to counter the loops? Its basic speed is slow, which puts it at a complete disadvantage, its basic power doesn't last long and it recharges slowly...
The only way to solve this problem (if it's nerdy) is to increase the power time, and shortening the cooldown gives it the chance to try again to counter the failed loop !
I know that many people want her nerve, but in any case it will be necessary to give her something in exchange and it might be powerful, maybe more than now.
What you think ?
Comments
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You can hear her in the grass anyway. For attentive survivors this wouldnt add that much.
I dont think she needs a nerf btw
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She is literally anti-game. Her entire power is based around the idea of removing information from the other side with little to no real loss of information for herself. This ENTIRE GAME is based on rhe information given and what you do with it.
You can also stand still and have it be just as effective as actually using your power. In other words you are rewarded for doing literally nothing.
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think we went a whole week w/o a Spirit discussion... nice
she may be alright w/o the nerfage
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1: Rank 1 survivors know it's nonsense! Why ? Because they know the Spirit. Only the low rank players are lost, how many don't engage in a chase with the Spirit thinking she is a nurse 2.0 when she is the strongest killer in the game. You shouldn't engage in a chase with the killers when you don't know them! The Doctor is much more cheated than the Spirit in loop (as in all in fact) and nobody says anything... the Spirit it asks for training, time to understand...
2: As says Clickyclicky we can hear it but it requires training to the sound. If the killer has to train why not the survivor?
3: I spent the night on her last night, I destroyed SWF teams with ease, because I know the Spirit today, even better than the nurse. I just had to listen to the sounds! Despite the birds flying away the survivors didn't have time to understand where I was.
4: Moving the grass? Useless anyway, because the new maps bring more vegetation, which means that the survivor will become paranoid and will necessarily make the mistake of looking at the grass every time instead of his loop environment, and will scream at the nerve again for his own mistakes?
5 : Maps like LAB don't have grass...
6 : Nerve the Spirit = give her something in exchange...
7 : The sound bug... sometimes when I touch a survivor I can't hear his moaning anymore, even with Stridor... Sometimes when I touch a survivor I hear it again, and it happens to me very often and it's a serious disadvantage for the Spirit !
8: If the survivors can see the grass moving, why can't the Spirit see the survivors as well (like the auras)... well, that would be really fair!😀
I'm afraid of nerves ! You can imagine, the survivors would be able to looper the Spirit so easily... They would be almost invincible ! I find the gameplay of the Spirit even more fun than that of the Nurse, because the Spirit is based on surprise... JUMPSCARE
Spine chill can counter the Spirit phase (of all stealth killers), it helps me a lot against it, especially during loops.
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Nurse will forevvs be my fav❣️
But yes, total jumpscareability!
On the tier of jumpscares, I have it:
1.Spirit, especially silent phase
2.Ghostface ugh! gets me everytime, smh
3.Myers a bit clunky with the feet an super heavy mask breaths
4.Pig usually see her coming, tho sometimes think the’s an urban evading survivor and “wrOar!Surprise!”
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Ah yes, the perfect counter: a perk! Let me just slot this on with Kindred and an obsession perk and Iron Will, oh Fixated + Sprint Burst is good vs spirit too right, let me stick those, and I've got-
Oh.
Oh no it seems I've got more than 4 perks.
Using perks to create the only counterplay to a killer isn't good game design. Everything should have a counter at base in this game, which Soirit currently lacks. No, guessing isn't counterplay. No, don't get hit isn't counterplay.
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Killers have the same issue with perk slots and no counterplay to some of the survivor perks.
The guessing thing is a bad argument too.
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And because killers have that issue it should also be fixed. Just because one side has it, doesn't mean the other has to; both shouldn't. The same with no counterplay (especially with the Ds/Unbreakable/Soul Guard combo), it should be resolved for both sides.
That's like one person having £6 and one having £2. Instead of giving the other £4 to make it fair you're opting to take £4 from one person which just makes both people unhappy.
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It should but the developers seem very selective about which they go for and which they don't. At this point I would give up hope of all of it being fixed.
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Hopefully, and this is me guessing and being very very positive, their plan is to take bad survivor perks and very slowly buff them like they did this mid chapter (but better obviously) then when there's a lot of good perks (not just meta, decent, and #########) they'll nerf meta ones down to good or decent.
Again I'm being positive here.
And then fingers crossed they'll do the same with killers like Spirit (maybe Nurse again but this would need them to yeet her entire power because if they make her cooldown any longer I'm screaming), they'd be nerfed, and then Leg and Clown etc would be buffed up to make killers a lot more consistent in their power level.
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Guess? Just study the killer's style.. that's what I do against Spirit and it works... Not always, because sometimes the killer is just good, like Nurse and that you can't do anything about it!
One perk against it is enough, Spine chill! It is the perk that allows me to counter it. With the big loops it's easy to use it, , not against with the small loops it's a guessing game. It is the principle of the Spirit and it is what makes it unique... If we remove it to her she will become a normal killer, without surprise... as much to take Spectre it is the same and we perceive the survivors.
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What should Ghostface say with Spine chill..🙂
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Yeah let me study how the spirit plays with the 6 chases I'll get with her and manage to play perfectly on the 6th. That's assuming your team are competent and save you before 2nd stage, and they'll heal you, and you don't get tunneled.
Using perks to make counterplay isn't good game design. Spirit is an awfully designed killer who goes against the entire principle of the game; using information to trick survivors, or using information and recognising it as false or not, and playing accordingly. Spirit just takes that information and yeets it to the sun.
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Literally Re-read my entire comment I'm saying that the issue shouldn't exist for both sides.
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This does of course assume that sounds are working properly. The only time in which this has been the case was right after the Oni came out, which then changed again when the hotfix came out around a week later. Spirit would be fine if you didn't need to run Iron Will to be able to actually play the game against her and the sounds weren't bugged.
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But this is the principle of the Spirit... it deceives the enemy, just as the survivor deceives the killer.......
The survivor can deceive the killer with loops + perks such as Indefectible, Confidential, Dance with me etc. but the killer can't, he just has to follow and take obstacles and waste time... The Spirit can counter this precisely, it's the only killer able to deceive the survivors as they deceive the killer... It teaches the survivors not to play the loop FOR NOTHING !
For example
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Nerf la Spirit means = killers must absolutely lose = more camp and tunnel = killer are completly boring = you will cry for nerf tunnel and camp. Playing the killer and getting paletts or windows all the time is getting really boring... How many survivors do not finish the generators under the nose of the killers? How many do not respect the killers? If they really want to counter the spirit, let them play the game, hidde... DBD "game of horror" mmmhm, no!
And as I said, moving grass.. maps become jungles, all survivors will become paranoiak with the grass, nerf and see you teamate make a lot of wrong !
Sorry for my english 🤗
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That is quite a long reply for what is just my thoughts, something that you did ask for. If you wanted an echo chamber, you should have just said so!
Now then, as for your points.
1) Rank 1 is a different game to something like Rank 4! Rank 1 is content creators and people who play this game too much. I also never seek out a killer for a chase, they find me and engage me.
2) I have a high end headset, a RIG 800-LX. I can hear Myers and Pig breathing in an opposite room, Wraith's elephant footsteps when nobody else can and I CAN'T HEAR SPIRIT PHASING IN HER TERROR RADIUS. There is no training against something I literally cannot do.
3) Good for you! there is no way of proving that they're SWF. Your last sentence here also proves my point about information denial, and as a stealth killer main, THAT is saying something.
4) Where did I recommend this? Nobody looks at grass anyway. Wraith, an invisible killer, still has a shimmer that is more recognisable at body height.
5) Yeah, and?
6) Like what.
7) Add it to the list. Stop phasing when it happens.
8) Well, you already have total sound, grass movement and scratch marks. What MORE do you want? Her not seeing Survivor auras is the biggest detriment to her power, but just use Stridor and it basically works the same way. Even then it isn't that big a disadvantage. As a whole, survivors literally get nothing.
Bonus round, since you also have another little piece there I would like to tackle:
9) Spine Chill only states that you're looking at the survivor in question, nothing on direction. There is still no feedback on actually phasing or not. And this is coming from someone who almost never plays without it, too.
10) She is still literally the only killer who can win a chase by literally doing nothing. You have done nothing to show me how winning while AFK is fine in this game. Dead by Daylight is the information given and how Survivors and Killers interact and that is the thing that the Spirit's power removes. Information and interraction.
Nice try though.
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Well, SWF goes against this entire principle as well. And there is no perk to help against them, and no counterplay to them sharing the information they got. I think that why a killer that messes with these information is a good addition.
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You really didn't read the comment where I say "Yes killers suffer from this too and this should also be fixed"
Again, as I've said many times on this forum, and so have many others, the best way to deal with swf is to buff solo information then yeet killers up in buffs. Spirit existing is unhealthy for the game rn, especially with the current state of solo-q. That'll be how you counter swfs- it'll be taken into consideration with game balance when solos have the same info as SWFs do.
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Spirit needs some fixes in the addons. Also update the position of the spirit every so often (1.25s) so that the survivors know if it is in phase and where it is going.
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I think she's fine. I think there's a good bit of counter play as much as people like to disagree, it's just not as intuitive.
Yes that counter play is much lower against a top tier Spirit, but seeing as the devs are still set on balancing around rank <10, there's lots. A rank 10 Spirit can be juked all day even without Iron Will/Spine Chill etc.
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Again, why would the survivor be the only one to deceive the killer ?
One question, the parchment can break totems (we know), but can it also break the traps of the Trapper? If so, I find it's quite incredible for you to cry for a killer who still needs a minimum of guessing, compared to the survivors who still have a great advantage over the killers' possessions? There are a lot of little things like that but I'll stop here on this subject.
I beat rank 1 with the Spirit, I am level 9. Why? Because they absolutely wanted to looper ! It's not the killer that needs to be changed, but the survivors we need to change strategy (we all know that high ranking survivors like to play this, LOOP). And like I said and I will say it again, the spirit is the only killer able to counter the loop effectively (but can still get beaten, I manage to beat the Spirit... Why rank 1 and you even do not can't beat her?) .. can't find an excuse for me "survivors rank 20", beginners can easily be fooled by all killers! What bothers the survivors is not being able to loop efficiently around the same pallet for a long time, that's all your problem, and Spirit can counteract that. A stealthy Claudette is able to counter (without perk) so stop making excuses, there is no need for perk to counter Spirit, it's all in the game of hide and seek !
I happened to lose some very careful and calm survivors, NINJAs. How many NINJA on DBD? Not a lot, most survivors prefer to run paletts on paletts, that's why you get knocked down! Noise is what attracts the spirit, without noise the spirit is lost. Easy like hello
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When. Did. I. Ever. Say. That.
You're also ignoring Deathslinger, NURSE, Hag, Doctor and Freddy for anti-looping. Hell, I can do anti-loop as Pig.
I am not making excuses, and despite my name, I'm a Yui main now. Spirit literally has no feedback, therefore NO TRUE COUNTERPLAY.
Hell, I've even taken down Rank 2 survivors as a Rank 16 Pig. One of the "weakest" killers in the game..
Counter my points or admit that you have no real argument. Stop putting words into my mouth, I never mentioned survivor stealth or one side deceiving the other.
If you want to play on easy mode, I won't stop you, but you're not going to convince me with weak arguments like you are providing.
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I never said that.. I say that the Spirit maybe counter and you tell me about the other killers... Speaking of the other killers, LOL, Doctor is OP the loops are nothing for him, I don't understand why we cry for the Spirit then that he is capable of breaking all the obstacles of the game in one click !
It is an solid argument which deserves reflection, I have nothing more to add sir have a good day.
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And then she's dead once and for all.
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Let's apply Spirit's design to every other killer:
Trappers traps are now 100% invisible.
Wraith can uncloak instantly.
Billy is invisible while chainsaw dashing.
Clowns gas is invisible.
Myers is invisible while stalking.
Pig is invisible while beartrap is on.
Are these changes making you want to play survivor? Anyone? Why is it taking so long for a match? Hello? Where'd everyone go?
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nerf some addons and some info don't change nothing for a good spirit. Her real problems are sound bugs and how the rest of the killers are affected by DS abuse and unbalance maps.
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What's wrong with that exactly?
Survivors can hide in bushes all they like and have it be as effective if not more effective than running loops.
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Well, for starters you can actually counter stealth with normal gameplay.
I can see a stealthy player with my eyes and tell what they are doing outside of a rare few exceptions.
If they're also stealthy survivor, unless they're trying to make you DC out of sheer boredom, then they're usually going to be in one of 7 spots that you as killer have full aura readings on.
Stealthy killers also have a telltale audio queue. Myers and Pig have their breathing, Ghostface has his cloak and Wraith has elephant footsteps and the bell. These killers naturally gain Undetectable as part of their kit, yet deny less information than Spirit. These killers have legitimate drawbacks, and I should know. I regularly play them!
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"I can see a stealthy player with my eyes"..
🤣 i'm done
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What is so wrong about that? It’s not like survivors are literally invisible. You can HEAR them they still make sound idk if you knew that. Or just equip aura reading perks. And yes you CAN see stealthy survivors with your eyes, if you ever have put any effort into using them.
Also, if they are being stealthy and not doing anything isn’t that a good thing?
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Yeah, so basically, since her last nerve we waited 1 year later to cry on the Spirit.. there is no logic, the only logic I understood is that we want to kill all the killers because to looper with Spirit is to take a good big wall...
I just did two games with the Nurse... The lag problems prevent me from making a hit. Click click click, tbag, open vault in my face, open door, gen... TOXIC ! I just made a game with the Spirit after this..... the red ranks are hiding, they do not advance with the generators...
In short, we want to nerves this killer because we don't know loop, that's the survivor's argument. When people master a killer you shout at the nerve, but the truth is that you can't nerve people!
The real NINJA are hiding behind an obstacle and watching you... I know because I do. I'm always the last survivor and I'm hooked 0 times, and I make a maximum of 1-2-3 generators per game.. except in the LAB.
Sound problems, it happens often, and even with Stridor...
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You've never had matches where the last 2 or 3 survivors play for the hatch because they can't finish the gens, then I guess.
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No, because my matches are usually slaughters or I get rushed into oblivion.
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Aren't you the one who plays Gen Defender? I know several times I've gotten into Gen Defense mode, and survivors just hide it out. Just the other day I played a group who gen rushed the HELL out of me. I had two hooked, and they still got three gens done somehow. Then they got a 4th gen done, but they three gen'd themselves. Thanks to PGTW I managed to drain the one gen they had done much on, then they spent a good 5-10 minutes hiding in the basement. I couldn't find them anywhere on the map.
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Yeah. And by "slaughters" I mean 4-5 generators remaining. I am also playing what can be considered the slowest killers in the game. I spend more time than the average Pig crouched, especially since I don't like Monitor/Whispers on her, Doctor slows himself when using Static Blast and Legion's the Legion.
There is only so much I can do with Ruin, Surveillance, BBq and Nurse's.
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Moreover with Felix's perk the survivors now easily know where the generators are.. more generators rush !
If Pig doesn't want to understand it's his problem ! For the survivors they will come back crying on the camp, the tunnel, and get slugged (just look the topics of this forum)... Many Youtuber admit that sometimes it is the only solution with this kind of team, and as more and more survivors adopt this style of play.. many killers will adopt (It is already done) the camp and tunnel !
That's good for me, because the developers will nerves others killers and the killers won't be happy, and so the developers won't have any other choice.. nerves the survivors.🤗
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Well, your second point made on that killers need training on sound. Plain wrong, killers already learn to deal with sound with other killers. Breathing, moving grass, planks etc all are audible to all killers.
However, as a survivor, the sound training is relatively minimal, besides that, there is 0 information for survivors on where spirit is going. And that is the issue. Every single strong killer has a counter as you can see where they are going or you can guess where they are going with relative accuracy. With Spirit, its just guess work and hoping you guessed right with essentially no accuracy.
Having moving grass would give survivors SOME indication where she is headed, while also giving more than enough room for Spirit to still use her power normally(which also has its issues due to lack of information). I mean, having to rely on a perk to counterplay a spirit is bad design. Perks can aid in counterplay, but they shouldnt be required for counterplay. With Spirit currently, you require perks to have decent counterplay.
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Moving the grass would make the power of the Spirit completely USELESS...
The windows have a limit (3 times), no the palett.. click click click (olé, Spirit in PLS) ! Again, we have a killer who is like the others, predictable, and has to break the paletts to get the survivor (which will have already gone around another obstacle because of the lack of speed of the Spirit...), original ! The survivor only has to look at the grass to counter the Spirit, great, great surprise effect ! Might as well take the trapper or the harpy if it's to play in a totally predictable way, both are much stronger in a loop!
Ok, nerve the Spirit, but its power must be unlimited in use (with a cooldown of re-use) that would allow the Spirit to stay in its world while having a chance to counter these totally cheated paletts !😀
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"Moving the grass would make the power of the Spirit completely USELESS..."
Nope, survivors need to pathfind to loop in the first place, they dont have a huge amount of vision and they cant keep track of everything the killer does. All it does is give survivors an idea of where the spirit is moving towards to predict where she might end up going. Which is 100% fair. You can also see the direction Nurse blinks, you can see which direction Demogorgon is crawling to, its literally a survivor base mechanic to see where the killer is headed if they are within range. It will make her power less strong than it is, sure, but the other option is to remove grass being moved when the survivor is moving around as the Spirit can already hear and see scratchmarks. Which would you think would be more fair? Remove visuals from Spirit's POV or add visuals to survivor POV?
"and has to break the paletts to get the survivor"
False, you can simply stand still and pretend to phase, you can also actually phase to the opposite side as you can still blind the husk without doing anything to spirit herself. Meaning other than Spinechill, there is no way to know if she is actually phasing or not, forcing survivors a 50/50 chance of guessing right. You can flip that coin correctly maybe once, but flipping a coin 3-4 times will end up in a hit. Having moving grass around a loop is still practically invisible to the survivor. The grass moving would only truly affect her on open fields, which means there are 3-4 maps she doesnt perform well on, which is totally fine, as most killers have maps that naturally counter them.
"The survivor only has to look at the grass to counter the Spirit"
Again, only works if the grass is in the vision. And if there is grass in the first place. Besides that, you move at 150% movementspeed while in phase, meaning you can easily double back and get a free hit anyway.
All comments you provide are essentially this: "i am a spirit main and i like getting 4k's without having to spend much effort"
A 3k is a killer win, a 1k is a survivor win, 4k's and 4 man escapes should be equally rare. 4k's are almost more common than 3k's when looking at Spirit. That means there is an issue with spirit. And the issue is information.
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I mean there was a way to play on a crazy difficulty just to test my skill? Sure. That sounds crazy
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Tss lol
1: The survivor has a third person view, which gives him the best view of his environment! He also has skills (which * the game), they are 4 survivors (3 execution phases).
2: Predicting... the Spirit is based on the surprise effect, how can we make this style of play predictable?
3: You can see the direction of the nurse for sure, and that's why it's totally predictable, for ranks 1, right? Show me a video of 3 games where you win with the nurse and we'll talk about it then! Nurse is not a surprise killer.
4 : Gorgon ? Gorgon is a weak killer who doesn't stand a chance against a good loop, his portals are easily destroyed and he can't even set his traps the way he wants. Gorgon is not a surprise killer.
5: What would be the right thing to do? We're in a "horror game" but the killer has to overcome 50k obstacles to catch a survivor... there's nothing fair, nothing logical, in fact !
6 : Stay still and pretend, Spine chill (yes you know the perk that kills sneaky killers), it's a perk accessible to everyone who can counter the Spirit for its "false phases" ... I do it, why not you?
7 : You mix all the killers with the Spirit... are you going to mix Gorgon and Pig, or Hag and Nurse, Trapper and Freddy ? Better to take another killer if it is to be visible.
8 : No, you can't easily turn back, because the power ends quickly and some loop prevents you from passing... the hut for example, all those loops of * that ruin the game !
9: The comments I make?LOL, I was Ghostface before, but the rush gen made me pass on Hag, Hag is contrabable to the higher rank, I passed Nurse, then I passed on Spirit Friday! 4 k ?I need BP like everyone else does... But the difference between me and the others is that when I don't need BP I don't kill anybody.
10 : You waited for his last nerve (1 year or more ago) to come and cry on the Spirit, after Billy and Nurse... I admit, it's strange how people can be !
11 : I can't hear the survivors, sound problems...................
Ps: About Billy.. a little one shoot, super fast, well smoked perks... the nerve will have been useless he remains the best killer of the game. But we wouldn't know what to say, because he is already "nervous". I'm not worried about the Spirit, if they nerve the Spirit they'll have to give him something in exchange and it will probably be in the same kind as Bubba... better, since the Spirit is a strong basic killer.
I give up.
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- Yes, it gives the largest view, but that makes it also much more likely to miss detailed movement. The skills during chases are mindgames only, interactibles are essentially RNG and having a killer that can be fast enough to bypass structures so that mindgames can essentially be useless, the only thing that's left is lucky coinflips. As for the 3 stages, thats only true if survivors dont make mistakes. Its very easy as a survivor to be spotted running towards a hook, which a Spirit can use to be there faster and chase someone near the hook, guaranteeing 2 hookstages for 1 hook. If you only got 1 hookstage per hook, you would have a good point. But there also is a timer, and that timer can run out. The only counter to that is Kindred. But I've been excluding Stridor so I am excluding Kindred too.
- "the Spirit is based on the surprise effect, how can we make this style of play predictable" Wraith is based on the surprise effect, Pig is based on the surprise effect, Ghostface is based on the surprise effect, yet all of them can easily get hits in chase by using their power properly. The only reason those killers arent the strongest, is because they have some secondary power issues that do need to be fixed, but none of those fixes include "make them invisible to guarantee a hit". They need some slight speed buffs or some slight sound delays and they would be able to utterly destroy, any soundbug on Pig already makes her a monster. Spirit is on the opposite side of that spectrum. She is too surprising. Moving grass is fine, it can even be used to mislead survivors.
- Nurse is a surprise killer tho, she can blink to a location outside her terror radius. Thing is, if you have slight vision of her, you can predict her coming. As for the more reasons I included Nurse. She literally is the strongest killer in the game right now, and she has more counterplay than a Spirit has. And it actually would be fine, if there was a killer that could guarantee hits, but it would need to be weak in all other aspects. Spirit is far from the weakest mappressure in the game. People claim she doesnt have pressure, but her ability exists, she can move 1.5 times faster than most other killers that allow easy gen pressure.
- Again, that was to point out that killers MUST be predictable in some way. Spirit is not. That is the issue.
- So? There is a difference between giving survivors less obstacles/loops to work with, as with Nurse, Freddy and Hag. And giving them not a single obstacle to relyable use against a killer. PH also had the issue where he could make pretty much any obstacle useless against him, and guess what they did? They changed him. There is alternative against Freddy, Nurse and Hag, there is no alternative to Spirit.
- Oh yes, include a perk to counter a killer. Sure, I'll add in Stridor, an easy to access perk. Or NOED, that makes killers like Spirit even worse to face. Or let me put in Undying and Ruin. Perks should not be the answer to any killer. Perks are meant to aid, not to fix.
- I dont mix killers with the Spirit, I am comparing Spirit to other killers. If you have an issue with that, then I dont know what the ######### you are trying to argue.
- I played Spirit a couple of times, you have more than enough time to turn back. EASILY more than enough time. As for the killer shack, loops like that are neccesary to the game. Remove loops like that, and you need to reduce the gens from 5 generators to 4 generators or give survivors an additional health state. And yes, some maps its easier to get hits while other maps make it harder, but guess what? This isnt a game where survivor deaths are the only outcome. If 4k's are possible, 4 man escapes need to be possible too. You're waaaaay to focussed on the killer side of the game. But here is the thing: Either spirit needs a nerf, or survivors need a buff, and if survivors need a buff, all other killers need a buff accordingly. If Spirit is the only anomaly, that simply means she is the one who needs a nerf. I have never seen a 4 man escape against a Spirit unless the Spirit was throwing, which would be fine if I never saw a 4k on Spirit either. 4 man escapes are literally impossible against a Spirit, that is a problem whether you agree with it or not. 4 man escapes need to be practically possible against a Spirit, or 4k's need to be much harder for Spirit.
- You dont need a 4k for good BP tho. Heck, you dont even need a 4k to get max BP. So that excuse is BS. As for Hag and Nurse, they are hard to counter if you're decent with them. You claiming that red ranks counter them easily is basically saying that you're not good enough with them to face red ranks. Which is fine. Nurse needs a lot of practice and Hag needs a smart brain for her traps. Hag also needs a bit of a nerf. But that is a whole other discussion. Nurse already got the nerf she needed and is actually my personal standard when looking at a Killer's power to see if its healthy in the current meta. Spirit and Hag definitely are not. Freddy barely not, needs some slight adjustments to be better for the game(a slight slowdown when placing down traps or pallets would actually be enough).
- Spirit got nerfed, but not enough. Billy needed a nerf, even though they overnerfed him at first. Bubba's rework actually needs a slight nerf since they buffed both options at once(faster speed up AND longer chainsaw phase) when he only needed a buff in one of the 2. He is much more accessible for more people now, but the issue is that he can be too easy to play against people of higher skill.
- That's a you problem, not a problem with the rest.
Billy needed a nerf since he didnt need addons to perform well. Any killer that performs well against red rank players without needing any addons is a killer that needs nerfing. Spirit is one of the only killers that remains that dont need any addons.
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