Ruin+Undying is not fun at all (as killer or survivor)
I'm 60% killer 40% survivor.
I'm playing killer, main Doctor, and I'm 4k-ing at 3 or 4 gens with little to no effort, It's just boring and I'm starting to feel bad for survivors. I still haven't had a match where they found my totems (or by the time they did, the match was pretty much over), but it's pretty boring to see survivors die without hope, some of them even suicide, it's not even challenging for me. It's the reason why the old ruin was "nerfed" (or reworked, however you want to see it), it gives A LOT of value with little to no effort. I just don't feel rewarding winning like this, so I'm just going back to my corrupt+pop slow down.
As survivor, I'm solo player (maybe in SWF is not that OP). I like to totem hunt, I know the spots, the problem is that by the time I do the totems, one or more people on my team are on death hook and we're at 4 or 5 gens, so it's pretty much an uphill battle if the killer is decent. Even if we focus on gens, the pressure of going for unhooks, heal and going back to the regressed gen is like getting 2 PGTW.
I'm not a blind killer main, I like challenges and I want the match to be fair and fun for everyone. This feels wrong, I think undying should be nerfed, like 1 totem respawn, not 4. And the aura reading makes it like a stronger Thrill of the Hunt. It's like TOO MUCH going on in one single perk. I hope it gets reworked.
What are your thoughts?
Comments
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It does completely step on Thrills toes and Thrill might as well not even be a perk anymore. The only thing I can recommend to survivors right now is to run soul guard. Rise like zombies against the sluggers.
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I have zero issues with it. I'm the designated totem cleanser in my SWF and the hexes rarely last more then 3-4 minutes into the match.
My build has Inner Strength and Detective's Hunch. I don't think a Ruin/Undying user has 4k'd against us yet
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I feel like undying should at least give the survivors a notification that "surprise! You're on totem cam!" All other hexes give notification of their active effects, so why not undying?
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The thing is that a SWF with a designated totem cleanser should not be the rule for what's balanced or not in the game. In fact, SWF by themselves should not be the rule for anything, since communication breaks a lot of perks and mechanics in the match.
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Honestly, the whole "Ruin ain't gone yet" part is enough that you should know.
The aura reading having a warning would be a bad idea. Every aura reading perk in the game is a "surprise", and making Undying an exception sets a bad precedent.
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Undying is already an exception to totems. All other hexes alert you once you're affected by their drawback, and in this case it also actively hinders you from cleansing the totem to manually test whether the perk is in effect or not.
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But not aura reading.
Retribution doesn't tell you if you're revealed, it only tells you if you're oblivious. Same for BBQ, Nurse's, Bitter Murmur...
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This. The killer is left with Tinkerer and another random perk. Not enough most times, even against solos.
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I'm really confused about posts like these... I play solo survivor and undying doesn't seem to be that crazy. Of course you still get those dumb games where your team does stupid things cuz of undying but it l honestly just assume that they'd have screwed it up anyway.
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Every time I hear Undying complained about its treated in the worse case scenario. It can be cleansed first. It can be cleansed second. You're not always going to get 3 respawns of another perk out of it. Its a gamble perk like all other hexes. Not to mention it needs a partner hex and if they both get cleansed you're down to 2 perks.
If you want to limit the transfers it should probably be a normal perk. Having limited transfers, needing a second hex perk, and being a hex itself would probably be too much.
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Lemme guess. This combo is going to get nerfed for being 'oppressive,' but the DS/Unbreakable will continue to be ignored for another two years.
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I have zero sympathy for your Survivors because mine seem to have no problem whatsoever finding Totems or cleansing them. In fact, I find your entire original post suspect. The only way your Survivors are failing to do Bones is because they don't want to do them or they don't bother to do them. The simple truth is every single Survivor knew this combination was coming. It was discussed at length. It was part of the play test. I recall, myself, telling people do do the Bones, practice for what is to come, and can point you to threads where I was told I was giving Players BAD advice by saying it. There were Survivor mains who called me an idiot for suggesting that Players do anything other than Generators. Well? Was it bad advice, or was it bang on the nose?
I play Killer and Survivor and which one I "main" seems to go back and forth. I do a lot of Bones myself. I have noticed NOED going off a lot less these days. I wonder if there is a connection? :) But let me return to you and your highly SUSPECT post. If you feel bad for your Survivors, and don't want to take Ruin+Undying, then don't take them. You could choose, as many Killers do, not to use the combination. Nobody is forcing you to do it. It isn't mandatory. So, don't blow smoke up our collective butts. What you really mean is YOU don't like having to do Bones, and are using this thinly veiled premise of being a sorrowful Killer to try and sell your point.
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I honestly just ignore it most the time in solo queue and just pump out the gens. To actually have Ruin be heavily impactful the killers gotta be playing really well and your team messing up a lot.
It seems fine to me. I've had games using it where they get the Undying instantly and now I'm down my perks. Seems high risk enough to warrant its strength.
If it really bothers you just run anti-totem perks to take them out quick and now the killer is playing with only 2 perks.
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Its funny how the new ruin was treated as a joke until ... it respawns if cleansed? Didnt survivors IGNORE it before undying was a thing?
It feels like this combination is the survivors current complaint of the month .
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With ruin and undying you do put effort you are pressuring the gen enough to make the survivor leave the gen
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Undying is the only thing making Ruin viable in my opinion. I don't think Ruin is worth running alone since its rework. Totem spawns are just too bad to be worth the risk. Without Undying most the hex perks are extremely high risk/mediocre-bad reward.
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It's no more unfun than typical meta survivor builds.
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They are a problem if you are someone who rarely cleanses totem, or if you are someone without map awareness and totem spawns.
Just like DS/UBis annoying to a killer who often chooses to Camp hooks or Tunnel.
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I love how people act like it impossible that you can cleanse Undying first.
I've used this and the Haunted grounds combo and I've had several matches where undying just happened to be the first perk cleansed.
If that happens they're free to take out ruin and now you only have 2 perks left.
Literally when anybody describes this combo they always talk about the worst case scenario where they had to cleanse ruin three or 4 times.
Honestly if they do anything to it I'd be fine if they just get rid of the Aura Reading and add that to something like thrill of the hunt instead this would make I'm Undying serve the role as a totem switcher and leave thrill of the hunt as a pure Defender.
So if you have Undying you don't have to focus on your totems as you have a chance of it being bounced around.
But if you really want to keep totems alive for example token-based totems like devour hope or huntress lullaby thrill of the hunt would be better as you could see auras and slow people down from cleansing
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With certain killers/maps it can absolutely be oppressive. Doctor on any indoor map for instance. Have fun with that survivors. Btw, that is exactly what I did when working through the iridescent challenge. Played Doctor, used Ruin & Undying, then used map offering for Lery's. I played against some fairly good survivors too and it was just impossible for them. No way they could cleanse the totems or work gens in a meaningful way until half their team was dead. I did it like 3-4 times in a row. I don't think I lost ruin once, all survivors died, and no more than 3 gens got done in a match.
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In 2 weeks there won't be any surprise. All of the killer will use this perk
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Totem perks are solo stompers and they always have been unfortunately.
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Tbh I think Ruin+Undying isn't as strong as people make it out to be. Undying can still be broken instantly, and both perks still require the killer to pressure people off gens.
I think the issue is that it feels pretty oppresive in Solo Queue sometimes depending on the map. Totem spawns have gotten increasingly better on newer maps and reworked maps, so it's harder to find totems- and at the same time, it can feel frustrating when it feels like nothing is getting done as a Survivor because your teammates aren't doing their part in breaking bones, and it doesn't feel nice to be punished for someone else's mistake. (Especially because you can't communicate that to the other person- so you know they're probably going to keep doing it.)
On the flip side though, it's not oppresive enough against a coordinated SWF. Have someone throw on Detective's Hunch and be the designated bone hunter and boom, there go half your perks and you probably didn't get much value out of them because it's hard to pressure coordinated survivors off gens.
With that being said, I do kinda wish Undying was tuned down because it does make Thrill of the Hunt obsolete. Maybe giving Undying the totem counter, and Thrill the Aura reading effects would be a good change for the two.
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The first week it was amazing. Past few days though survivors seem to be getting them totems really well. They’ve adapted.
I havent played against it yet but I know I would hate it as I hate Ruin anyway. Play solo and spend 60 seconds on a gen just to be chased away and by the time you get back its next to nothing. It’s The Legion of perks, just hold M1 for infinity. Speaking of Legion him with slowdown and Ruin has to be by far the most boring thing in the entire history of the game so I’m not surprised so many survivors are willingly jumping on hooks against it. The perk is kind of weak against SWF as well since swf can just ask someone else to finish the gen for them not to mention get the totems easier. But I said this ages ago that new Ruin amplifies the gap between swf and solo.
I think it will be changed just because it’s a pretty effective universal combo. Im gonna go against the grain and say its not ultra effective especially for every killer but it is the thing you automatically feel like using on everyone, and from what I hear everyone is using it anyway. Undying is fine with every other totem perk so they just need to change Ruin if anything.
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Yeah, after playing against it and playing it myself, I think Undying will get some finetuning in the future. Otz had the idea that when Undying gets cleansed, the transferred Hex will be cleansed as well. So if you cleanse Ruin first and Undying afterwards, the new Ruin will be destroyed as well. Doesnt sound too bad.
Yesterday I prestiged my Blight from P2 to P3 and from the 15 games I played, I only got a 3K one time and the rest were 4Ks. And they were not even close, the 3K was because of a Hatch escape. And I think this is mostly because I was using Ruin and Undying.
The thing about Ruin is that its rework made a lot of sense, since it benefits Players who are good at applying Map Pressure. So the better the Killer player is, the more benefit from Ruin. But with Undying, it might be possible that the Survivors have to cleanse 5 Totems to get rid of Ruin, which allows a Mediocre or Potato Killer to have the benefit of Ruin, despite not even playing well, but just grinding through the ressources Survivors have.
Its cool to have some time because Survivors have to cleanse more Totems than just Ruin and it is also nice if Ruin is not gone in the first minute. But it should not be expected that Ruin lasts 5 minutes+ into the game.
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I've not struggled against this combo. Most of the time the totems are taken out. The only map you might have some trouble to find them on is Midwich. And even that is a maybe.
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Besides the thrill of making Devour Hope work... Every other hex is garbage.
Even with the undying respawn system, ruin doesn't last enough and then you end up with 2 perks for the remaining of the trial. 1 if you're using surveillance (another garbage).
I rather have 4 perks the entire trial than that.
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I have had no issue with it personally as survivor and not even running Detective's Hunch either and if you dont enjoy it as killer because its too ez...well then dont use it?
I dont use ebony mori's because I know they are just bs.
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If you're doing so great as killer, then handicap yourself by not using those perk combinations to challenge yourself. Not everyone is as skilled as you claim to be. 🙄
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But he has right Ruin and undying are too strong right now. It need a few nerfs.
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Make it so that undying only reveals aura while cleansing like thrill does with the visual and sound. Now the killer has to pay attention to these auras and might miss them during chases and stuff.
I don't see why so many people have a problem with this combo. The only really new thing is the aura reveal. Ruin still does the same as before, nothing if a survivor sticks to their gen. You don't even have to cleanse it to work around it thanks to the rework.
Ruin by itself and even with undying is not oppressive at all it just increases the value of pressure a killer can put into the game.
While yes it does not need effort from the killer to activate like pop, so do many perks on both sides not require any effort. So I don't think this should be an argument and if you still want to make one of it I put out the point the effort a killer has to make is to get survivor of their gens in the first place.
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So just ignore a large part of the game that isn't going anywhere and balance around solo players making swf ungodly broken? Not that it isn't already.
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in what way? just run detectives hunch and you will find the totems asap, and after that its a 2 perk killer....
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Undying is probably going to get nerfed at some point in the future TBH. Even a lot of popular killer streamers like otz and hexy think it needs one.
If I had to guess what they do they're either gonna remove the aura read or make it to where when your undying is destroyed any totem it respawned, despawns.
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Ds + Unbreakable is more unfun tha Ruin + Undying
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And at that point Undying is dead and worthless.
I think they should just change Ruin.
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I'm just happy Undying has changed up the Corrupt + Pop meta. Though maybe they could reduce the aura reveal to 3 or 4 seconds so it doesn't fill the same role as Thrill of the Hunt.
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Becuz no aura reveal perk give notification. You dont know when BBQ reveal you or bond or any other perk.
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I'll have to agree undying/ruin isn't that strong of a combo. It's nice to have another useful combo but it's not OP in any way...there has always been a 2nd objective, same peeps who cry about noed will whine about this
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The problem is that if Survivors know what totem they're cleansing (more less only tap it just to see which one it is like I do on occasion to be sure if it's thrill of the hunt) then they're going to be hell-bent on getting which would also tip the killer into thinking, "they really can't let this hex totem go, then this must be one of my stronger totems I need."
Then they're going to be more defensive on that totem when they see the Survivor's aura pop up most likely negating the current chase they're in just to prevent that totem going bye bye.
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Learns survivors to do bones and not only gen rush. I think it's pretty good but not OP combo in any way.
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I mean... No one is forcing you to use those two perks together when you play killer.
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Great, thanks for that. Showing off how SWF can just break the balance of the game by being able to tell other survivors where there are totems. Of course you're able to use totem perks knowing they'll be useful without going through the tedious process of checking in the pre-game lobby with the other survivors who half of the time don't even answer because most just go afk until they hear the sound of the match starting.
Why didn't I think of just using comms in my solo queues?! /s
...
hahhhhhhhh
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This is where you're completely wrong. SWF should (sadly) be EVERY game's standard for balance since it's the strongest force in the *entire* game. Sounds ######### because it is. Devs need to acknowledge this game cannot work without comms and giving survivors a phrase wheel and a walkie talkie is gonna completely nullify many of the imbalances that SWF cause. They can then buff killers accordingly and solo surv becomes an enjoyable and fair experience.
Going back to your original argument Ruin + Undying is perfectly fine even in their current state. I have fun using it and looking for totems too, given that my team isn't all rank 20s.
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I'm not going to pretend I know what all the new perks do as I haven't played since deathslinger. But from what I've seen of undying, it's a slow down perk on top of a slow down perk that just grinds the game to a halt if you focus on totems, now I'm definitely glad that ruin is what it is now and not what it was as id agree that's completely over powered. As the game would just never go anywhere as by the time you start focusing on gens you've likely lost at least one survivor, which is a huge deal. 3v1 is alot more killer sided than survivor. Its why I'm cool with tunneling as long as it isn't mindless. Strategic tunneling is key to winning as killer, reducing survivor numbers is how the killer wins, as the survivors strength is in numbers.
As for this, I don't think it's that horrible, I can see it being a huge pain but not unbearable, you'll just have to focus on gens more than totems and just live with the debuff
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What I meant was, you can't expect the devs to say "hey, nothing needs to be reworked, since any SWF can easily beat that". Imagine if that was the case for not reworking ruin. You're talking about using SWF as an extreme case for balance, which is not wrong, but they shouldn't base their balance logic around SWF.
in fact, they never had. I can't remember a single patch note saying "we nerfed this because in SWF is too strong"
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But you see, the whole point is to shut down SWF teams. Because at high rank those are the ones you are facing. Ruin + Undying should be an option to choose from if you see that the survivor team are SWF.
And by the things you say I actually feel like you're not a killer main, but actually a survivor main in disguise. If you complain about Ruin + Undying from killer side.. DON'T USE THOSE PERKS TOGETHER THEN. And for the survivor side, though luck that you can win every single game as SWF. If you're facing a good SWF team (which happens a lot if you're a red or even purple rank killer) then the coordination of them is so good and they run loops so well, you NEED ruin + undying otherwise gens will be flying.
Survivor need some 'hard to swallow pills': the game is not unbalanced if you can't win 9/10 matches as SWF. Killers struggle so much more, and complain so much less.
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I dislike perks that are objectively better versions of existing perks that leave the original in the dust. Thrill has needed buffs since forever and they just released a new perk that outperforms it in every way that actually matters.
I'm fine with the Undying nerf as it fixes the main problem though I'd still like to see TOTH buffed in some form. I would rather they take auras entirely off of Undying and put them on TOTH. The main problem with TOTH is that if you actively defend your Hex they can tap it and be gone by the time you reach it, making you lose significant pressure.
I'm looking forward to trying Devour with Undying. I do think, much like Survivor meta builds that the current killer build is boosting -a lot- of killers higher than they should be, which in turn is leading to more complaints about balance, when really they're just playing survivors who are way above their skill level.
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why did this thread get necro'd the combo got nerfed
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then stop running it looooooool (i smell fake killer)
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