So let's talk about SWF

Or, better yet, just buff solo and killers.

I think the best way to nerf swf is to not actually nerf swf, because nobody should be punished for playing with friends.

Give us an actual MMR system, so good solo players can win, and a totem counter. Now, we balance the game around how strong swf is, and buff killers accordingly, we should also nerf the perk OoO, so survivors don't get so much free info.

We can also give killers double bloodpoints when playing against swf.

Agreed. Ban voice communication.

Most laws and rules don't actually control or stop people from doing anything. They set a standard of conduct, and punish the people they do catch. The developers should wake up to the fact its a cheating level advantage and finally declare it cheating isn't of just saying "nah all good."

At the bare minimum they could announce "hey guy you shouldn't do that anymore because it really does ruin this game, and we refuse to just include it in the base game and just balance around it," and at least there won't be so much of it and not out in the open as acceptable. Even many of the players who do still keep abusing VC wouldn't bust it out as heavily since that tends to be how cheating works mentally and most would face some self recognition of being scummy as hell.

I mean for ######### sake if its even close to balanced then they'd at least let solo players type messages to each other in-game. Solutions don't need to be perfect, just better. And, ideally, you go for the best feasibly alternative. It'd help if they punish people too, but they only need to punish the people they know for sure. So basically anyone dumb enough to upload video of themselves doing it.

So many people pretend that this game would die out if that happened, but that's just more bullshit taking credit it for all the natural growth of such an inherently awesome idea and (can be) an incredibly fun game that's grown and developed over the years. They lump in every stream and tube and new player that plays as if inherent & inseparable from sharing information when most of that stuff isn't "wow look at this team!" in the first damn place.

It's the killer side they're constantly (and creatively) trying to boost up and prevent from fleeing the game already or switching exclusively to survivor. Almost every major complaint and issue with the game roots back (in some form or another) to randomly switching between matches where players sometimes have perfect communication and sometimes they don't, in game that's designed and balanced around the idea that they don't.

(Thank you all for reading. This has been my daily VC rant, see my post history for much, much more)

The only times VC "doesn't mean anything" are matches where the skill levels are inherently unbalanced, and you're facing a team who you would always stomp in normal gameplay. Even casual VC is a crazy huge difference when this game does not take the changes into consideration or balance in any meaningful ways. No, it doesn't make individual players better at looping, or hiding, or skill checks--the benefits massively exceed that something far beyond that which dramatically shifts the gameplay to a different beast entirely.

The impact of being able to just say "hey I saw the NOED totem!" while being dragged to a hook is HUGE! Just in the early game something like "hey there's a trap right there" during a rescue could be the pivotal moment that ends up shifting a 0K to a 4K in a match that's actually balanced with how essential that early game is and the sort of momentum that can snowball from downing the savior and pulling the other 2 off the gens. Even the simplicity of "hey there's no traps around" is a huge boon when that 10 seconds of caution per occurrence is something that rivals the benefits of some time-waster perks.

VC is like everyone has the obsession skull marking where they know if you're in a chase, but obviously better because that means being able to rely information as it happens, heads there direction, or if its really over vs evaded temporarily.

VC is like everyone having kindred, but better obviously because you don't need to ever wait and see who's gonna stay and who will go for the rescue.

VC makes every killer into a plague or pig where everyone sees who they're up against as soon as one of them does and it eliminates those other few chances of catching someone off guard when early game is the most critical time for killers to start putting on pressure.

VC lets everyone know everything as soon as one player does and pool knowledge/experiences to determine your perks together.

VC is like everyone has distraction except instead of 20/30/40 meters they can orchestrate it across the map with the cooldown based only on however many second of the other player's time it takes.

VC adds a long range spine-chill where you get to know if the killer is coming from the other side of the map as long as someone else sees them pivot directions.

VC is a dulled version of the map marker where you can use any recognizable spot for meeting or decide whose going to which exit gate.

VC changes the whole dynamic towards optimization and compartmentalization where "the team" ends up being as strong as its strongest player instead of its weakest. Hell, it's the difference between being a "team" at all versus the asymmetrical gameplay of killer versus survivors who benefit from (but not beholden to) mutually beneficial cooperation. The whole idea of the survivor side is "survivor together... or alone" and creates that risk/reward of altruism and cooperation.

The list goes on and on... and, again, that's just casually. That's NOTHING if accounting for the game modifiers that come when skilled players are determined to bust this games wide open and start exploiting things like object of obsession. Any match balanced when the players don't have communication cannot also be balanced if those players had the benefit of communication. Period. One is balanced or the other. Never both.

I think anyone who (sincerely) says they "prefer the challenge" is mistaking the meaningful variable. It's really that the ranking system is so out of whack (and that's no surprise) they would've been paired with players below their performance level anyhow in that match. It's not "the challenge" of voice communication that's enjoyable sometimes. It's just that it changes things up with random cheats/debuffs that make bad "teams" they'd face decent. If you take any balanced/reasonable match-up and suddenly go from no communication to complete communication then the difference of voice communication means an opponent (ie, the teem in total, not each individual) can shift from good to damn near godly.

GitGud isn't the issue. Never has been, never will be. The issue is that "Dead By Daylight" offers 2 incredibly different games, but when you play killer you don't actually get a choice whether you'll play the fun one or not. You don't even get to know which one you're playing for sure, and most of the time you won't know until you're a goodway into things either. One game is balanced fun, and the other game just isn't. It's not fun watching gens go pop pop pop while you're in a single chase with their designated looper because VC lets you optimize and coordinate. It's not fun trying to find someone and having to dig behind every rock in futility because they were given a heads up in time to run off before you even got close. It's not fun having to run moris or tunnel the first player because leveling the playing field early on is your only chance of catching up to anything more than an end-game camp. It's not fun when the game is stripped of so many little variables of chance and confusion that otherwise yield interesting and unpredictable because some people would rather just cruise to the finish line when those chaotic elements are the very reason essence that makes games worth playing.

Its. Just. Not. Fun.

(Thank you all for reading. This has been my daily VC rant, see my post history for much, much more)

What's interesting is that I don't think there's anyone who really disagrees with the idea that SWF pairings should be disclosed after the game like all the other details. Whether you're someone who thinks the problem is overblown or game-destroying, it seems that everyone actually agrees about something being in the best interest of all for once.

Maybe it'll reveal something one way or the other, but either-way when you're playing killer you'll finally know where you were entirely stomped by skill alone and where 50/75/100% of the survivors likely operated with a huge advantage. At the very least, killers can better gauge their own skill and recognize where they're most needing to GitGud.

Can't really understand why they wouldn't do this. Just toss some sand on the fire already, y'know.

No. If they ever give in to killers like you that refuse to actually get better and deal with SWF and Nerf them just because this game will die and your queue times will shoot up for those still playing. You're never getting a SWF Nerf. It just punishes people for playing with friends. My SWF group I'm the ONLY one who is always a red rank on both sides. The rest hardly play so if they got punished for playing with me they'd stop playing and so many other people would as well. It'll never happen because it's a dumb idea. There is a reason they never respond to these ideas and the one time they did they said they wouldn't Nerf SWF for reasons similar to if not the same as what I said. Know what they did say they considered? Making kindred base for solo players to have more info. You as a killer don't want that because SWF or not they'll know where you are.