Solution to Pyramid Head

I don't see how your question has any relevance to the problem that Pyramid Head poses. We KNOW that this is a problem, Pyramid Head frequently puts survivors in situations where almost no counterplay is available to them and survivors are just forced to concede the chase. Your question is nothing but a deflection from what the issue we're discussing actually is.

But for the sake of discussion I'll answer it anyway. Huntress hatchets, much like Demogorgon shred you have an opportunity to dodge, mainly because there's an audible wind up for both. Demogorgon hisses and opens it's mouth changing stance, Huntress makes a noise herself sort of like an intake of breath and the hatchet itself also makes a sound when it's fully charged. More importantly for both killers they are reduced in speed during this time, Demogorgon has an alt. speed of 92% (3.68m/s) and Huntress is slowed even more at a whopping 77% (3.08) meaning both these killers are losing distance while they have wind up their attacks. If either of them miss they will have lost ground and the chase extends for a longer duration than it might have otherwise.

Given the vault hypothetical yes, a survivor does have a choice. A quick juke to the left or right can very well mean that either of those killers miss, and because they lost ground the survivor isn't punished for making the right call and not vaulting. This is especially true for Demogorgon, since if he misses and collides with an asset like a wall he is stunned for a longer duration. In that situation, it might actually be more rewarding for a survivor to gauge the time and distance to see if they actually can make the vault, since Demogorgon will not get the hit if he doesn't catch them at the window and they successfully vault all the way through. On the Huntress side of this if she misses she is down a hatchet, and has fewer chances remaining to injure or down a survivor before she is eventually forced to take the time and restock at a locker, at worst needing to break off chase entirely to find one.

Nowhere is this thoughtful design present in Pyramid Head's kit. He is slowed, but only to that of 110%, a speed which enables him to most certainly maintain a chase, keep up with, and even surpass a survivor (not that killers will be passing survivors up they'll be catching them of course). He is not punished at all for his wind-up, which also serves as area denial if a survivor doesn't want to get tormented, and can quickly transition from wind-up to M1 if the survivor doesn't vault that's where this problem comes from.

Yes I have asserted that PoD can't be dodged considering the alternative is an M1, this isn't something you have ever indicated you'd like to dispute and I don't think I'm necessarily wrong in my belief either. The only reason I can think of as to why you'd believe this isn't worth discussing is because you'd have far too much trouble proving your point (because it's inherently flawed but that is of course just my opinion).

Regardless of whether or not you think it's a lazy solution, at the very least it IS a solution. One that I can assure you I took the time to consider from both sides, and the conclusion I came to is that it's certainly worth the while, anyone who disagrees with me I'm certainly open to discussing with them and hearing out their reason for why. Unlike you.

Because of the reasons previously stated, specifically what PH is able to do and what these other ranged killers can't do (IE attack through walls and other assets ignoring all kinds of collision and hitboxes, transition from wind-up to, M1 with little to no punishment for it, etc.)

Thank you for your input, I really do appreciate it.

The difference is that for the Demo/Huntress comparison, both of these characters have limits on their powers and what they can do with them. I get what you're saying, yes, a Huntress can catch a survivor at a window, sure, a Demogorgon can do the exact same thing. However, a Huntress can not do it an endless amount of times throughout the entire match, eventually she will need to take the time to reload her hatchets. When she does run out of hatchets, you'll find that she moves at base of 110% movement speed, permanently, with no other ability when her hatchets are out Not to mention, there's a vertical aspect to her ability, not only do you have to aim in the correct spot laterally, but also vertically, if you aren't practiced with Huntress it is entirely feasible to completely whiff that shot because you aimed a little too high or a little to low.

And it's worth enough to note that Demogorgon is also limited by his power despite not having the more obvious "ammo limit" Huntress has, it is a physical, melee, attack. If you don't catch a survivor with shred before they reach the window, right at the window, or immediately after, that shred misses and instead you are colliding with that asset which causes a stun on the killer. Unlike Huntress and even more unlike PH, Demogorgon has to deal with his entire killer hitbox potentially colliding with something. The drastic slow Demogorgon and Huntress have that I mentioned earlier where they move more slowly than normal survivor running speeds, force them into "do or die" scenarios, where they have to get this hit, and if they don't or decide they can't make that hit they are pushed back further in the chase now having lost ground.

So what is my point with all this, well it comes down to that simple concept of what Pyramid Head can do, and what they can't. He ignores pallets and windows completely on a level that Huntress and Demogorgon quite simply don't. Which I want to make clear, isn't necessarily a bad thing, Nurse ignores pallets and windows on level all of these killers quite simply don't and I'm not making any assertions about her. The reason being for Nurse, Huntress, and Demogorgon, there is a certain amount of skill or effort on the part of the killer in order to use those abilities properly and effectively. I would argue none of these killers are particularly easy to use especially against knowledgeable survivors, Nurse for obvious reasons, Demogorgon because of a distinct lack of people playing Demogorgon (this being either an indicator of his lack of effectiveness or a high skill floor / difficulty to use [since nobody likes to say Demogorgon isn't an effective killer, I'll opt for the latter]), and Huntress for her own myriad of reasons from resource (hatchet) management, gauging distance, how quickly hatchets move, the arc and trajectory of the throw, etc. so on and so forth.

But Pyramid Head IS. There is almost no skill required for a Pyramid Head much less a practiced one, to quickly take advantage of being able to ignore all forms of collision while a survivor is pinned in place within a range of 8 meters (without addons!). If a Demogorgon attempts to do the same thing, he has to mind whether or not he can make it in time crossing the distance with Shred before a full successful vault or pallet slam, if not he loses that interaction. A Huntress has to mind the wind-up time for her hatchets, the drastic slow to her movement speed, the vertical motion and the height at which she throws her hatchets, etc. A Pyramid Head has no issues with any of this at all, only needing to mind the lateral left and right movement, which is hardly anything, if you are facing a survivor you're hitting a survivor.

The ease and reliability that Pyramid Head can pull this off and still see the same amount of success as other more difficult to use killers is what makes this a problem. So unless we're making it more difficult to aim / use punishment of the damned, we need to do something about how successful the ability actually is during a match. Hence the invincibility frames.

And not that it matters but I will add it as an afterthought that the cooldown he currently has is not as impactful as you think. We can tell exactly how much distance a survivor gains in that time (rather than you're arbitrary "that's a lot of time to gain ground" that means nothing). Since we know survivors move at 4.0m/s. After 2.75 seconds, they'll be 11 meters away, and considering that Punishment of the damned is 8m long, you're looking at a few seconds, five tops, before that survivor is within a lethal range again. And if those changes that are on the PTB go through this will be reduced to 2.25 seconds so cut that distance to 9 METERS that a survivor jut gained they are 1 meter away from being hit immediately after a second time. This is ONLY if a survivor runs perfectly straight, if you're running in a perfectly straight line you are gaining that full 4 meters of distance, and we all know not every survivor moves perfectly straight after getting perfectly hit. Whether because of their own human error or maybe because they didn't have a choice, because the map constricts them in a way that forces them to turn left or right. TL;DR So even in the perfect scenario the cooldown is practically meaningless in the grand scheme of things, even less than meaningless if that reduction in cooldown on the PTB goes live.

I refer you to my last paragraph, the "slow recovery" you're referring to in all reality is not actually that slow. I highly doubt this will seriously weaken him because this really only affects people who purely rely on the playstyle of waiting for survivors to be locked in place. This will have little to no effect on good Pyramid Head players who are well acquainted with the ability, when they can hit it and when they can't outside of a "motionless" (locked in animation) survivor. Just like any other Ranged killer.

In a certain sense you're right though, it'll drastically weaken Pyramid Head players who rely purely on a crutch playstyle which requires minimal effort. News flash: his ability is still good outside of those interactions where survivors are locked in an animation, he can still hit survivors on the other sides of loops without having to run the tile normally as an M1 killer. Trail of Torment still serves as area denial and a deterrent for survivors to take certain pathways, if they run through it anyway then that benefits you as the cage of atonement / final judgement provides more options. He'll most certainly still be a good and viable killer with this change, of that I am absolutely certain. To repeat:

"I can assure you I took the time to consider from both sides, and the conclusion I came to is that it's certainly worth the while"

And what you're asking for is to be getting things easily and for free. Free zoning, free downs, because there is little to no counterplay, and as long as there's no counterplay I can continue to crap all over my opponents and tell them to learn counterplay that in all reality doesn't truly exist. Continue to push forward this idea that the current state of what things is are somehow "fair" and we're all have fun!

In fact, let's not have counterplay for anything! Decisive Strike should be free invincibility for a survivor for 60 seconds, Object of Obsession should be free passive information for survivors to call out to their SWF teammates! Pyramid Head should be getting free downs all the time, and DBD should be a toxic fight to the top to see who can best abuse the most poorly designed aspects of the game. Because, you know, "NO COUNTERPLAY!!1!"

THIS ^

This is exactly what I'm looking for, someone who understands the same wavelength of thought I'm operating on.

I understand entirely that at first glance this seems like one of my most laziest and ludicrous ideas, but when you take the time to actually think it through, it beyond surprisingly, is crazy enough that it just might work.

I absolutely agree it's a risky idea that would take time and testing to get it right, but if they could get it right, then it would be something that would work and would create an experience of playing against Pyramid Head that is so much more enjoyable, less aggravating, and make playing as Pyramid Head all the more rewarding.

It'd have helped if you had read the whole post, but it is what it is.

I've already briefly gone over that whatever they're doing on PTB isn't working, not in great detail since admittedly I haven't been there myself but based on numerous testimony from other players. You can still cancel in the animation immediately so you can fake out punishment of the damned and get free hits at pallets in a very similar way that you can now.

Clown is a horrible comparison, his power is vastly inferior on a very basic level. PH wouldn't suffer any similar "fate" at all, even in your given hypothetical, since if that survivor drops the pallet he can still use his power to hit across loops. Even if he misses, he can literally just spam punishment of the damned until he hits, something that Pyramid Head's do now and something they'll most certainly do more frequently when the cooldown for missed attacks is eventually reduced like it is on the PTB. PH is in nowhere near any kind of trouble that Clown is, you're literally comparing what is one of the more solid better killers of the game to arguably the worst.

As for "consistency" killer powers are uniquely balanced different from all other killers. For example Deathslinger can't guarantee injury or downs just because he shot someone, he must reel them in and if he doesn't they can't be downed. If the chain doesn't break and instead he lets go by attacking too early he doesn't even injure survivors with the ability, despite clearly shooting a fkn harpoon right through their shoulder survivors are literally none the worse for wear. Though it's important to note that though it might not make actual sense, it does make sense balance-wise, So I'd hardly consider "consistency" a valid argument, killer abilities are balanced individually as necessary, regardless of "consistency". It makes no sense to hold all killers to the same standard when they aren't all capable of the same thing.

I've also already explained away the logic of how this change would be explained. Punishment of the Damned is an attack that erupts from the ground, if you're not on the ground, you aren't hit. Not quite the same thing as your analogy of not hitting a survivor that's standing still, so it does make sense contrary to what you said.

It would only be incredibly frustrating for PH players who rely purely on the crutch of only ever hitting survivors who are stuck in animation rather than making more skilled shots.