Honestly, Ruin Undying needs a nerf
It's too strong. Be honest. It's actually too strong.
- The effects it has overshadows every single other killer perk and perk combo.
- It's carrying trash players through lobbies where the survivors simply just get unlucky with the totem spawns.
- It's overboard on good players and especially on good killers like nurse where you do not have time to do totems.
- It requires little skill to use (walking over to a gen is not skill).
- It's extremely inconsistent to counter and too difficult to counter at times.
- It's good on literally everyone.
- It's quite annoying (not a reason why it's strong or needs a nerf, just a personal opinion of mine as slowdown builds are even stronger now with this combo).
Compare this to the Pop Corrupt meta we just had which IMO is a healthy meta combo:
- Does not overshadow every perk and perk combo.
- Took skill to capitalise on so trash players weren't carried by it.
- A bit overboard on strong killers, but never felt as oppressive as Ruin.
- Has a consistent counter depending on teammates skill.
- Good on all killers, but some did not benefit from it well enough in order for it to be used over other perks.
- A bit annoying depending on your preferences.
I know this post is going to be flamed, I just wanted to put this out there as I truly hate Ruin Undying with an absolute passion and its killing my want to play survivor. To see it constantly pushed as a healthy perk combo disappoints me as it has many glaring issues on both sides that for some reason people don't seem to acknowledge.
More importantly, if the game actually starts getting balanced at it's core (maps are fixed, gens are balanced, etc) then if ruin undying is still here then it will dominate every lobby and I have no doubts about that.
(Also yes, DS is an issue, it's just that you see 100x more Ruin Undying killers than you do 4 man DS UB squads, so don't think I don't want that nerfed too. K thanks).
Comments
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It's been pretty bad for me recently. Undying gone within the first 60 seconds and then Ruin doesn't last much longer. I've ditched it on most killers.
It was good the first week but now that survivors treat totems as a priority and have learned totem spots again it's not that great imo.
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Idk what that means but thank you.
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The aura reading for Undying could be nerfed but otherwise I don't know how to nerf it without killing the perk.
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I think it because you avatar DS who most say needs a nerf.
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I...literally have had games where in the first 90 seconds, 4 hexes were broken, the third being undying and the fourth being ruin for the third time.
As a player that plays both sides, the only nerf needed is to Undying's Aura Reading aspect.
Counters:
-If the killer has tinkerer, stack on gens in at least groups of 2. This will make it almost impossible for them to get to you in time after the tinkerer proc.
-If the killer has Discordance, split up around the map on gens; sure, one gen will eventually get pressured, but they can't all be stopped.
-Run a soul guard build so that you get something out of it; if people are doing gens and tinkerer procs as you're downed, you'll likely be slugged. Use that knowledge and apply it to your playstyle.
-Run a totem hunting build. Detective's Hunch + Inner Strength are great against it. You don't need a map that tracks killer's belongings, but it would also come in handy.
@ClickyClicky I have to agree. That said, there are maps where survivors will only find totems by sheer luck, such as Dead Dawg Saloon, where they seem to be able to spawn almost anywhere as compared to any Macmillan map where it's pretty obvious where they can spawn and it's just a case of looking around the limited spawnpoints.
As for the comparison to Corrupt and Pop:
Undying Ruin meta feels much more interactive as it forces the killer to interact with survivors that are sitting bored out of their minds holding M1, and it adds an extra layer of challenge to the survivor side that at times isn't there.
I actually can't stand seeing corrupt in my games, since 9 times out of 10 it seems to result in a 4k because survivors are literally forced to do gens in an incredibly inefficient manner/order.
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You can easily remove it from the game by cleansing totems.
If you are having trouble cleansing totems you can run Detectives Hunch, Small Game or even bring in a Map.
If you don’t have a map, you can run Plunderers to get one. I do, and I find a red map in 1 out of 3 matches.
You can play stealthily and just use your eyes and ears to find the totems. Just listen for the crackling fire sound.
There is nothing over powered with the new Killer meta. The only people who have issues with it are bad/lazy Survivors.
If the Killer is applying so much pressure that you can’t do gens or totems, it just means you’re simply not good enough, in a game where the entire level is designed to give you the advantage.
tldr; git gud.
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Here’s my suggestion: When you cleanse a ruin totem for example and the killer has undying everyone gets like a cool screen vfx to imply that the ruin totem has been moved and that the killer has undying and everyone gets cursed by hex undying (because undying is the only hex that doesn’t give you the hex status effect at all which is stupid for when you run soul guard) and it only protects each totem once instead of 3 times
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Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer is carrying so many bad killers. It's absurd. I think it will take more time to really determine whether or not it's OP. The survivor meta in solo play has to shift to totems>gens if Ruin is in play.
The 4 stack I play with completely trivializes the build within 2 minutes. But solo players struggle hard against it because one or two players will look for totems, one player will drop instantly in a chase, and the other player will run in circles doing absolutely nothing at all. It goes back to one of the core issues that makes this game difficult to balance: solo queue players are often ridiculously unaware of what is going on and how best to deal with it.
The known and accepted meta should be sweep for totems as soon as everyone realizes Ruin is up, full stop. If you don't know that you (not OP, just in general) or your teammates can run, and let's face it, 90% of the time you/they can't, you need to deal with Ruin/Undying immediately or you'll make no gen progress. The killer is likely going to bounce around with Tinkerer and stall the game repeatedly.
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Make it non hex, make it transfer the first lit totem the survivor cleanses and that's it. Nerf aura reading so you can only see them when on a lit totem.
Side nerf: Make lit hex totems slightly louder (not by too much, by 2m).
I want to make it more consistent in what it does but make it weaker overall.
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"walking to a gen is not skill"
Lol but it's skillful for a survivor to spawn within view of a gen and walk 10 feet to it, ok survivor main. No self awareness at all.
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My idea is to make it consistent, instead of the complete map rng/totem spawns. Some maps where totems are a pain to find (especially indoor ones), it's a pain to cleanse all 5 totems.
As a remedy, we remove the aura reading and limit the number of times it can spawn to one dull totem. It will still be powerful, a little oppressive but not like when you have to cleanse 5 totems to just get rid of ruin.
And before someone propose to run detective's hunch, not everyone has it and also it does not make sense to HAVE TO equip a perk to counter a broken build otherwise you are screwed.
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I suggested actual counters by means of playstyle, and did mention Detective's as an alternative, because let's be real, most players at high level have all the DLC's, and it's not the only counter by far.
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60 seconds safe ruin value plus survivors have to ignore their objective.. is called.. bad?
Man, killer really have a hard time right now...
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Way to go taking something completely out of context.
I was saying walking to a gen with hex ruin active did not take skill - which it doesn't, nor did I try to say that survivors walking to gens take skill. In fact comparing survivors walking to gens to killers walking to gens with ruin is stupid as they have no correlation, survivors walk to gens to complete their main objective which is balanced around not requiring skill. Killers with ruin walk to gens to get free regression that I think they shouldn't get.
Also, if you literally glance through my comment and post history it's extremely easy to tell that I am most certainly not a survivor main nor have survivor sided opinions. Ruin Undying is just so absurd that I have to talk about it despite it being on the killer side.
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You are not very bright, are you?
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I have mixed feelings about it. It's probably too strong vs. solo Survivors on average, since maps are rare and people shouldn't be forced to sacrifice a perk slot every game in case the Killer has an Undying build.
Problem is you could argue it's too weak vs. a decent SWF. All it takes is 1 totem hunter to ruin your build fairly quickly.
The gap of solo vs. SWF is the real problem. But anyway, I guess they could band-aid nerf the aura reading. Not sure how else to balance it.
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It's a strong combo, but it's supposed to be. Inadvertanly, or on purpose, the developers by adding this perk (Undying) into the game have created a secondary objective that serves as a slowdown mechanic in early game, which has supposedly been their intent to do. Good survivor groups WILL find the totems and cleanse them, even on more difficult maps, or in some cases, they'll power through Ruin. Playing survivor, there's the occasional game where it'll wreck my friend and I (we play 2-man SWF), but just as many where we cleanse the totems (or our silent teammates do) or work through them.
As killer, I see the same -- some games where the totems are deadly effective for me, and others where they're gone super quickly. I played a round where I had all five totems cleansed in a little under 7 minutes, and Ruin was effectively destroyed in 6 -- I had another round where the Undying/Ruin combo was gone in only 32 seconds (I even saw the aura reading of one of them cleansing Ruin and couldn't get there in time!), When that can happen, that's not exactly a perk combo badly needing a nerf. (That match, which I was doing the DH rift challenge, you can watch here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEOo61_fIBM&list=UUODC_RYe0z8yDnIFlmW-TmA&index=26&ab_channel=GeriatricGaming ).
Every initial point made about the perk combo -- it overshadows other perk combos, it carries weaker players, overboard on good players, little skill to use, can be used by anyone, more difficult to counter, annoying to face -- well, that obviously applies to a certain set of survivor perks as well, and the cries to nerf those are a horse that's been beaten into the ground already. I, frankly, am fine with facing those as a killer for the same reason I'm fine facing U/R as a survivor -- there's counterplay. It's not always easy, but it exists.
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it may be annoying but if you assume it’s every game just run detectives hunch, small game, or a map and do bones. I find it to be doing it’s job just fine using it and going against it as it’s a hex perk.
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Do bones. Survivors have 1 primary objective thats to escape. Howeever with hex undying/ruin. It shifts it so survivors have 1 more thing to do or not, having played both sides, just do bones. Its amazing how quickly you can cripple a killer if everyone hops on bones right out of the gate instead of gens
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good meme, corrupt + pop don't carry trash players, maybe if they were good enough at downing and hooking survivors they wouldn't need game slowdown
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Ruin flexing on players for being op again.
You can't keep a good guy down
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Don't gen rush then killers wouldn't be using it.
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It's great against stubborn potatoes who won't do bones and pretend they're suuuuper hard to find. I'm expected to drop half my perk slots or more just to get a good slowdown going, but survivors won't give up one out of 16 perk slots or their totally optional item slot to actually accomplish their goal.
Funny thing is, when you get survivors that have brains, those totems vanish in the blink of an eye, and even that delay can mean very little for the killer if the survivors are being stealthy about it. Can't get to every totem all at once.
But I've been running BBQ/Mad Grit/Agitation/Franklin's instead for a while now, just for the funsies. Ruin/Undying is absolutely going to get a nerf, can't have survivors sacrificing a perk slot to counter what they expect to be in every game. That would be mildly inconvenient.
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Bring back old Ruin and delete Undying
deal?
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Small Game exists
heaven forbid you have to change one of the 4 perks you've been running for 2 years
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Survivors shouldn't do their objective?
And I hardly even play survivor, before you say something that makes you look dumb.
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Genrush isn't a thing. The first gen can be rushed by multiple survivors using BNPs on it, but that's about it.
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The killer shouldn't be trying to make it harder for the survivors to do their objective?
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It is the most unhealthy thing ever added. Not exaggerating. You are right in that it carries bad killers that can't apply pressure and it turns experienced killers into literal gods. It needs nerfing not just a little but a lot.
Killers are now way overpowered. And it is not good.
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All I'm getting from all these posts is exactly what I wrote about in my post about ruin + undying. Ruin + Undying doesn't really matter. What you're all complaining about is the fact that solo queue sucks and about certain killers. Oh no solo queue is struggling to deal with ruin and undying. Looks at the thousands of forum threads about solo queue teammates struggling to do anything but DC.
Was new ruin always that big of a deal? Add in undying and suddenly solo queue people are acting like they were always dropping everything they were doing and running around cleansing ruin as soon as they realized it was up. Yeah no... I only play solo queue and almost nobody was doing that. The only time ruin was cleansed was if it happened to spawn somewhere obvious and sometimes nobody even bothered to do that.
Then there's the idea that ruin + undying is helping unskilled killers. The 2 hexes requiring killer to be fast, active, have situational awareness and capable of quick decision making. I guess you mean mechanical skill? Dbd and mechanical skill... Something doesn't add up here. Is pop anymore mechanically skilled than ruin? I guess you have to hook a survivor for pop. However, you can try to stall as long as you like with ruin but you're going to lose if you're not hooking ppl fast enough.
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I love how everybody thought that having a secondary objective was a good thing but now that killer can get this by using half of their perk slots it's suddenly impossible to win anymore
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The whole totem mechanics honestly needs a rework, it is all luck based.
Some games hex totems spawn right next to you at the start of the game.
Where some games you get it in a ridiculously hidden spot.
I almost never see anyone in red ranks running hex perks except for ruin and undying, and rarely devour hope
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The Undying + Ruin combo is a perfect example of everything wrong with DbD, if you ask me. Survivors can push through the generators so fast that Killers do everything that they can to stop that.
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I don’t personally use it. I have a hexphobia.
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We need to stop nerfing useless perks. Undying isn't even hardly used. There's only one perk that needs to be nerfed NOED
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Matches don't have a pre determined outcome, so having to give up a perk slot isn't a reasonable counter.
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hey how about bringing something to counter it like detectives hunch or distortion a perk that literally shows you at least half if not all totem locations from one gen or a perk that will prevent your aura from being read.
you can also just learn the totem spawns. honestly the second killers get something good and not broken just good survivors complain. the meta hasn't shifted since clown released with pop and the only thing that survivors have changed with their meta is inner strength/head on and build to run it
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Again, matches don't have a pre determined outcome, so sacrificing a perk slot for something the killer MIGHT have isn't a reasonable counter.
Let's say hypothetically that I hate tunneling, doctor, slugging, totems, trapper, spirit and ghostface.
I have to bring DS, unbreakable, calm spirit, detectives hunch, small game, slippery meat, iron will and spine chill, oh wait! Survivors only have 4 perk slots.
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Distortion is a pointless perk that doesn't fulfill its function.(Seriously, it needs a hefty buff to even be viable) I've given multiple counters earlier in this thread, only one involving potentially running a perk to counter it.
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i included distortion because you can avoid then aura reading with it and imo it is bad but with it you can easily figure out if the killer is running certain aura reading perks or addons.
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You can, but should never run it for that; there are normally easier ways to tell that don't cause you to have an entirely empty perk slot.
At least we agree it's bad. ;)
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I don't use it because i think it's still too inconsistent.
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The only thing I think should be taken out is the aura ability.
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When the majority of matches you queue up in share this combo, it not only gets frustrating, but really boring too. I literally set out most matches and just hunt down all the totems to take this power away.
No combined perk power should be so strong that I anticipate it every time I queue up in a match.
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Sure. As long as it happens after/at the same time as the DS/UB nerf.
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Cleanse. Those. Totems.
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Have you tried ruin - undying - corrupt - bbq on nurse?
If you use it with addons, you're literally unstoppable. A decent nurse gets easily 4ks without slowdown perks and addons, with that it's just broken. Just the information provided by undying from people simply passing by a totem is insane, you can blink on them immediately. It's six seconds of aura reveal. That REALLY needs to go. I don't run hex perks, but I'm seriously considering just adding undying to my build for the aura reveal.
There's this streamer going on a 4k streak with that build + addons. People calling him "god nurse" kek it's easy to 4k like that
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It feels oppressive because its early game is really good, the more totems you do the less powerful it becomes and it become easier to find the hex and destroy it. The only nerf I would propose it when you cleanse undying it gets rid of any other hex that it had revived. Undying is nowhere near OP it is just a strong perk that can be added to the current meta of gen slow down.
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Anyone remember when hex ruin was reworked and survivors told killers to just adapt and it rewards killers by pushing survivors off gens? Now when killers got a decent combo survivors think its too strong. You have perks to counter totems. You don't even need a perk you can also bring a map. Ruin and undying are fine. It makes survivors do the second objective and punishes survivors who just wanna hold M1 the entire game.
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just do bones lmao
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