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Should they remove the flashlight counter to Wraith & Hag?
Title. With the recent Slippery Meat changes the Devs removed the increased chance to escape from a bear trap, because they wanted to move away from perks that specifically countered killers. That said, do you think they should remove the Flashlight burn from Wraith (I know it can happen to Nurse too, but I've never seen it done in the years I've been playing this game), and possibly the ability to get rid of hag traps with a flashlight. I know some people won't like that because a lot of people, including me, hate playing against her, but if they're going to move away from specific things countering killers, it should happen to every killer, right? I'm not really including things like Iron Will for Spirit or Calm Spirit for Doc, as those perks were designed before the killers even existed.
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It will probably be eventually removed (years from now) after they balance a lot of other things.
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I've never thought that survivors should have so much power over a killer that they could prevent the use of their ability entirely.
Disarming Trapper's traps
Lightburning shrouded Wraith
Destroying Hag's traps
To a lesser degree...
Breaking Ghost out of stealth
Not cleansing versus the Plague before her buff.
There are probably good arguments why the first 3 examples work, and the other 2 examples are less impactful, but I've always thought that it would be much healthier if survivors could only react and avoid those particular killer powers much like the other killers rather than being able to actively disable them.
The Ghost's might not be so bad if a survivor couldn't break him out of stealth while they were completely obstructed by an object preventing the Ghost from being able to see the survivor who revealed him.
But I digress.
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Disarming Trapper's traps - Always wondered why this doesn't have at least a skill check or two
Lightburning shrouded Wraith - Rarely seen this happen TBH
Destroying Hag's traps - Should take as long as disarming a trap? IDK how long they have to shine on it for.
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I can understand the disarming of Trapper's traps, if he traps a building with only a few entraces - like the Killer Shack, or even the basement in the game, the Survivor is straight screwed if they can't disarm it. It's certainly a very irritating mechanic sometimes, but I understand why it's there.
The same could be said about Hag traps, but I don't know. I don't play enough Hag or play against Hag enough to weigh in on this conversation enough.
I do however play a lot of Wraith, and lemme tell you - back when there was that bug that allowed Surv's to chain stun Wraith by burning him, it was hell. I don't understand why Wraith, who is already one of the weaker killers in the game, is countered even more than others with such a common item.
As for the other two, I feel Plague is probably in a good spot with her buff. Nobody plays her, so no clue.
Ghostie is another killer I play a lot, and I just wish they'd fix his Reveal mechanic on both ends. Nothing like staring at a Ghostface for 10 seconds and not getting the reveal, for some reason, or playing Ghostface and being revealed by a person literally behind a wall, that shouldn't be able to see you.
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The problem here is that the counterplay completely negates her power making the match an unavoidable loss if done right.
I'm not sure if you've played as hag against a competent flashlight user or not, but pretend that every time you went to a pallet as a survivor the killer could break it before you got to use it.
It's sort of like that.
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Removing it from Wraith would be fair, tbh. It's depressing how easily one can be bullied and there are a number of techs to be used against them.
Hag, however, needs a bit more counterplay to her traps atm, imo. Make it so walking doesn't activate traps and then we can talk about removing flashlights burning them.
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Probably disabling the hag traps for 10s instead of destroying it or hag traps should shine bright if it's hit by a flashlight for every survivor to see.
Hag is a very strong killer if played right and leaving her with no counterplay except to crouch might make her go over the edge and into nurse/spirit category.
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Lightburn sure remove it, it's really damn annoying.
But disabling hag traps isn't as bad, if you see flashlights in the lobby as a hag you have to place them more smartly.
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How much time would be wasted by the time they run out, how many gens would be done by the time the hag could use her power? And a good survivor can burn a trap mid chase on a loop.
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Lightburn takes up half my flashlight charge.
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As a hag main when I choose to play killer I feel like without the ability to remove traps with flashlights it make her especially lethal. Personally I do not mind when people remove my traps with flashlights because it just means I played them far too noticeably. The skill with hag is placing traps at strong loops or away from gens before people even expect to start crouching. Good hag players aren't easily countered with flashlights. Although this is a bit different on maps like hawkins.
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Lightburn is such an outdated mechanic and I'm not sure why it's still here.
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Wraith's burn is totally unnecesary but hag's is alright, think of trapper, you can't break his traps anymore but it makes sense that you can disarm them, otherwise if he trapped the exit gates you would have no way to escape other than hatch which by that time might as well be trapped up, he'd be like the best killer in the game if he could just deny entire portions of the map with impervious traps. Also a good hag that places a trap near a hook literally forces you to crouch your way to and from the hook while they will most likely return and get tons of easy pressure because of it, it forces you to spend your flashlight which primary use is to "save" survivors, and you can't blind her on pallets like you can with other killers. Hag needs no addons to be effective, she just has a steep learning curve. Without the flashlight her traps would have no counterplay outside of "urban evasion" which isn't a counter really and you know that perk only works for immersed claudettes, and if the hooked survivor doesn't have it they're open to get tunneled anyways since you're supposed to be territorial with hag. Wraith on the other hand has nothing going for him because he's very perk and addon dependent and also is the only killer that gets a 5 second stun off a flashlight which is really easy to get with how trash dedicated servers are also let's not forget he gets also the same 5 second stun if he gets hit with a pallet while cloaked.
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No. Hag in particular needs to have counterplay to her traps. Crawling around the map isn't enough. It's not like a survivor being actively chased can burn her traps. Flashlight batteries have their limits and if the hag bothers hiding the traps in vegetation or shadows it can be very difficult to spot them anyway.
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Yeah. I like the idea of flashlights highlighting traps/coaked wraith, but destroying traps and stunning wraith/nurse? I don't think that should be a thing, that's such a huge power boost to the item just because the killer happened to be... Well, playing one of those killers.
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This statement leads me to believe that you've never played as Hag against a survivor with a flashlight who knows how to use it against the Hag.
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Yes.
BUT....
If they remove this then they absolutely MUST remove Hags ability to place traps around hooks or the basement.
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I’ve been in support of this for so long to be honest. Hag is too unfairly punished by flashlights. But survivors without flashlights are too unfairly punished by Hag too. The opposites here are too extreme. Crouching (without Urban Evasion) is not an adequate counter, and it’s highly exploited by the vast majority of Hag players.
When you play solo, it’s pretty much anyone is dead first hook. What Hag can do when there aren’t any flashlights is not balanced in the slightest.
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Lightburn (for Wraith and Nurse) should be removed, it is an outdated mechanic and only really affects Wraith since most people dont try to burn a Nurse (it is also not really worth it).
Hags Traps should be removeable via Flashlights, it takes quite a lot of the Flashlight to do so (if I remember correctly) and the Hag can always bring Franklins. Or, they can remove it, but then make it possible to save players against a Hag (e.g. in Basement). Yes, the Basement should be a place where it is more difficult to save, but against a Hag, you are practically dead if you get hooked in the Basement, since she either teleports or has enough time to get back (which goes for every Hook and is horrible game design, but it is most noticeable in the Basement).
So given a better Chance to unhook (e.g. Otz mentioned an idea that Traps in a radius around the Hook should be disabled once the Survivor is saved, this would mean that the Unhooker still needs to crouch, but they wont need to crouch back, meaning that they can get away) and removing the ability to burn Traps would be fine for me as well.
But currently it is quite bad that a Hag suffers from Flashlights, but is so oppressive in regards to Hook Defense without a Flashlight.
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How many people know that nurse can be hard countered by flashlights? Exactly. Removing something so un-noticeable/useless would be fine imo.
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I hope not, they should buff the Killer in other ways, but keep weaknesses like lightburn and removing traps with light.
Yes Im a Wraith Player, Listen, its a cool counter and the game only becomes more stale and boring if you remove it.
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Only if her power gets a built in way to disarm the traps to compensate. :)
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Wraith yes. Though I wonder is it meant to be an anti-camping tool.
Hag Nooooooooo. She would need her ability changed in order to justify this. Her camping ability is too strong already without a flashlight. I do agree it's terrible game design that a killer can be weak with perks/items (flashlight + urban) but really strong without.
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You know you can trigger them while she is carrying someone and disarm them because the hag can't teleport while carrying.
Or if you know she is far away(Lets just say being revealed by kindred while placing traps) you can trigger them and she can't teleport to them due to distance.
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Wraith's should be toned down a little. Hag's is fine though.
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Wraith got a rework and it was not removed.
Though I wonder is it meant to be an anti-camping tool.
Probably was intended to be this way originally, but obviously this doesn't work because you are not guaranteed to have / find a flashlight.
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Hell no. I play Hag and Wraith significantly, and I want to see more of those interactions, not less.
I also am still a big supporter of sabotage affecting bear traps. More organic/emergent interaction is always the way to go when it comes to mechanics, not less. And on the other hand, many kinds of horror arise from less interactions between players, not more. The devs have continually seemed to be unable to keep themselves from going against this.
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