Players holding the game hostage: DbD NEEDS a match timer
I just came out of a game as killer where the survivors hid the entire match and never did a single gen, so obviously they all got sacrificed. However, to get the win, I had to play a game that was very boring and over an hour long with only a "brutal killer" ranking to show for it. If I wanted to leave the match and move on, I would have been given a DC penalty. How cruel. (although, without DC penalties, matches have a problem of being ruined every other game)
This is far from the only time this has happened to me, and it happens as survivor too. The killer first kills two or three people. Then, repeatedly downs the last survivor(s) and picks them up and drops them until they are no longer downed, then downs them again. This is so the three minute bleed-out time lasts much, MUCH longer than three minutes.
Matches in DbD are usually 10 to 15 minutes, with the rare lengthy match being about 20 minutes. Endgame Collapse was an amazing step in the right direction (and is what got me back into DbD after a multi-year hiatus due to matches being 2+ hours without it), but we need a timer before then to prevent matches from being 30 minutes long.
My suggestion is that after the 30 minutes are up, the match simply ends, and no players in the match get bloodpoints and everyone de-pips and is given a matchmaking penalty. There is no way to tell who is doing the hostage taking, so scorched earth makes sense (even though I am fully aware it is HIGHLY abusable). In addition, players should be banned for repeatedly drawing matches out to 30 minutes and can be unbanned via manual review. This way, if people that are often targeted by harassment, like Twitch streamers, are repeatedly held hostage, they can appeal to BHVR and get unbanned.
Although, a less foolish option would to remove any and all DC penalties after a certain length of time passes. For example, in addition to the match ending at 30 minutes, you can DC at 20 minutes and keep bloodpoints and items you earned that match. Again, highly abusable, but better than the nothing we have right now. I just want to play the game, not run in circles for literal hours waiting for the 4 Claudettes to do a single gen.
Comments
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I agree that a half an hour match should not occur, punishing everyone shouldn’t be the case. I think instead, at the start of a match, a timer is set for 31 minutes (additional minute is to compensate for the 10-20 second period of looking around for each player). After the timer has ran out, the end game collapses occurs and the exit gates are powered. One, both parties get to keep their blood points, and two the survivors get a chance to escape while the killer has a chance to kill them all since all they need to do is patrol gates instead of seven generators that were left untouched. Neither side is penalized and can move on to a hopeful better game but also have the number of blood points possible drastically decreased.
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I've experienced similar situations both as killer and survivor. Thankfully none of them lasted as long as yours. With that being said, I can already see an issue with your suggested change.
Let's say I get matched with a two/three man SWF against an AFK Wraith. What's stopping them from splitting up on the exit gates and bodyblocking me from opening either of them just to grief and force a depip?
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The problem with triggering EGC and powering the exit gates after 30 minutes, is that survivors can and will abuse this to their advantage. Playing against Nurse or Spirit? No problem man, just hide for 30 minutes and then pop the gate. That's more or less why I suggested NOT triggering EGC after 30 minutes.
I'm a hobbyist game dev, so I understand that people will do boring things like rotate lockers for 30 minutes so they can get an easy win. It's in our nature.
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What's stopping them from bodyblocking the gate and keeping you in the game indefinitely? That's another reason why there needs to be a force game end some way or another, and not necessarily the way I suggested it.
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The only side who can hold the game hostage is survivor and they need to be 2 or more for that to happen. I know the DC penalty are back but its only 5 minute and its not like you encounter that kind of toxicity everyday
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I'm not really thinking about me or my experiences, necessarily. I'm thinking more about the health of the game in general. Imagine the 1000's of players that have been in a similar situation and didn't want to get punished with the DC penalty, no bloodpoints, and item/add-on loss because they didn't want to put up with someone else's toxic playstyle.
I'm a horribly stubborn person, so I know most people would just leave instead of fighting it out (which is why people do this, because they know you will leave and they'll get a free win).
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You have the freedom to find and jump into the hatch upon the 5th gen popping. Sue are unable to body block other survivors from using the hatch from what I understand.
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Only if you are the last survivor. You can see it after all gens are done, but you can't hop in w/o a key unless everyone is dead. So if the killer is AFK, two survivors can work together to keep the gates closed and trap the other two.
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Ahh yeah, oops. Silly me.
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you good fam, I'm a rules-addict so I always remember useless stuff like that
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I should have remembered. Don’t know why I didn’t. It’s not like I ever recall survivors completing the last gen and then disappearing into the hatch without a key.
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I had similar match found them downstairs in closets😂 got bored 2 bour 30min looking for them
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Friday the 13th has a timer. If you are still on the map when time is up it counts as an escape. I wonder if they could do something like this for DbD?
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You can smack them and leave them on the ground or hook them if they did this. They can only block a few times.
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He's talking about if you're playing as survivor, and the killer is AFK (no smacking and downing to be had). In this situation, two survivors team up to grief the other two survivors.
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The killer can bodyblock you in a corner.
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You don’t realize or fail to consider the fact that the gens are way too close together to do them right? So what you just expect them to go out and die? This game needs to be fixed so Killers can’t just go from gen to gen so quickly. That’s a problem.
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I cant really see that kind of scenario happen. If your the last survivor you should try to find the hatch if the killer close the hatch the EGC start. If the killer bodyblock you in a corner and you still have some teamate up the survivor will finish the gen open the door and the EGC will start. Honestly i dont know how a survivor can be bodyblock in a corner whitout the EGC starting
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With two survivors left, the killer would slug one and then down the other. Then they carry the survivor to the corner and bodyblock. The EGC can never trigger, and the other survivor bleeds out.
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With two survivors left, the killer downs one and leaves them slugged while they find and down the other. Then, they pick up one and bring them to the corner and bodyblock. The survivor still on the ground bleeds out. There's nothing in this scenario that could trigger the EGC or otherwise end the game, barring some perks.
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The downside to that though is they could all just hide in lockers for 30 mins and sneak around with the faster crouch speed and spine chill.
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On DbD it should not count as an escape though. The thing that makes Friday different is that Jason has rage and once he has it there is not much you can do to fight back especially since you have stamina on it. Looping is definitely a thing on Friday but extremely difficult to pull off.
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You must be new
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Okay that's not true at all. holding the game host does not always indicate infinitely held.
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Asking for all parties regardless of who is at fault to be punished is senseless. an internal timer absolutely should be utilized but instead of just automatically ending the match, if no generators have been done within a certain amount of time then all survivors should automatically receive an AFK crow above their heads that stays with them until the completion of at least one generator or they've encountered the killer.
likewise if a killer is holding the game hostage by constantly slugging and dribbling survivors, then an effect needs to happen similar to borrow time with no scratch marks in a longer stun upon the final drop that puts the survivor back into injured state rather than dying state so that survivor can get away and killer can't automatically down them.
As an aside, streamers shouldn't have any type of preference over other players as your comment seems to indicate, especially since a large part of the time, they themselves actively participate in griefing and screwing with other people while they're laughing about it on their streams.
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- Start the game at 8min. Everytime a Gen fixed, the timer reseted to 8min. (Maximum 40min)
- Start the game at 10min. Everytime a Gen fixed, add in 5min to the timer. (Maximum 35min)
- Start the game at 15min. Everytime a Gen fixed, add in 5min but cap at 15min. (Maximum 40min)
If time is up. All Survivors get scarified.
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My solution is "Realm Stagnation Collapse"
at 15 minutes and every X mins afterwords(X can be dynamic to end longer games) the game will check If neither side have progressed their objectives within Y mins:
If survivors haven't worked on(Regression doesn't count against it) X% of a generator or completed a generator
And
If the killer hasn't downed nor hooked a survivor.
Then the Stagnation Collapse begins:
During this special collapse the hatch door is blocked off by the entity and has a set 4 minute death timer for the survivors to finish the generators and leave as the gates DON'T get powered when this happens so generators still need to finish the generators.
The above is for survivors holding the game hostage and the below is for killer's holding the game hostage
The game will try to detect every X mins(same checks as Stagnation) if all remaining survivors are stuck(No possible way to move by either being glitched or killer body blocking) and end game collapse isn't started. Then if this is detected the match will simply end in a draw for the remaining players rewording to escape nor sacrifice points.
Edit: (This is purely Anti glitch) If the end game collapse time runs out and somehow the game is still going after 2 mins the game ends in a draw.
Post edited by Warcrafter4 on2 -
Problem is no matter how you do it, it can be abused.
Say a 30 minute timer.
After the timer EGC starts? Why do gens as survivor juat hide for 30 minutes
Survivors get sacrificed after 30 minutes? Why chase survivors just stick to the nearest gens amd hard patrol them till they die
Your suggestion of punishing anyone? "God he's playing spirit screw that person I'm hiding 30 minutes so he gets punished. I'll just play something else after this match but not untill i ruined this person's game"
See where the problem is?
I do think that allowing killers to open the gates at any time would be a pretty good solution to this problem.
But then you'll get those matches where killers open the gates after 3 gens popped in 3 minutes and they don't realise that the first couple of gens really don't matter.
A better afk crow system would also work but that would probably take quite some time for something that relativally a minor problem
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I've been trapped in a corner before. My teammates were tbagging at me and wouldn't do gens. Sometimes the killer will cooperate with other survivors to grief.
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What rank are you currently on? I guess white or yellow ranks since matches on red ranks are rarely longer than 10min. And your description of these Survivors seem to fit this.
I usually play killer on high purple ranks but I have a smurf account where I can train at rank 17 with new or difficult killers without getting destroyed by 4-man swf and object. I usually notice that Survivors hide a lot more and that I need other perks to find them. I also had a match where I couldn't find anyone for 10min straight on The Game map, but I was patient since indoor maps tend to be confusing for newer players.
I usually use perks like Spies From The Shadows or Whispers to find those Blendettes. If that doesn't help, I search every locker and search every corner of the map. You can't imagine how often I found someone just crouching at the map border.
Maybe the solution is, that the survivors need to touch a Gen for at least 10s in the first 5min not scream and reveal your location. I thought of something like the scream bubble from Doc or Freddy. This would give you the general direction but leave enough time for the survivor to go away (we want to be fair). People who are afraid tend to scream. This would help against extreme passive Survivors who are clever enough to avoid crows.
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Just make afk crows more agressive/ less lenient
Or add a crow timer for survivors not touching generators.
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How is the killer able to hold hostage? Escaping and therefore ending the trial depends clearly on the Survivors, not the killer. Or do you have problems to escape vs an afk killer?
Whereas perfectly hiding survivors give the killer no chance to end the game naturally.
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The top half is to stop survivors from hiding all game and give them 4 mins to finish gens or die.
The bottom part is if the killer somehow gets the survivors stuck by bodyblocking them in a corner OR the hook glitch happens which forces either the killer or the glitched survivor to DC to end the game.
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Ah OK. I only ran into the hook glitch once so I forgot about that one.
Bodyblocking a survivor is bannable and should be reported. The others can do gens though. If it's the last survivor Bodyblocking becomes a problem and I agree that there should be something against it. But not during the match. Sometimes you have a bad day or the others are too good for you to get anything done as killer.
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I agree, any match beyond 30mins should have the Entity force a shut down.
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I can see many people getting offended by this. But taking the game hostage is unacceptable especially those who camp around survivors already on hooks. That is taking a game hostage. If people can't play or have a good time. What is the point? Your there to have fun, but taking the game hostages is pretty much ruins the game for all. And people already moaning and groaning because people are getting reported for this.. People can't see the bigger picture and yet people message people because they disconnect to earlier. The only thing what annoys me the most is people disconnecting early in the game because of a killer getting them first. I wish they could send in another survivor in so it will make others do their jobs on the Gens much easier and not having less people dying quicker. But I don't see this happening anytime soon! But it's really unacceptable for game hostages, they should kick people out if they're not going to do any gens if their hiding and kick the killer out if they're camping survivors on hooks. I've seen this so many times. Its so frustrating
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Exit gate shouldn't get powered.
Why should one team's objective get autocompleted, allowing them points they potentially didn't earn?
That is like saying after 30 mins the killer gets 2 random sacrifices.
You'd get survivor teams treating it like a legit strategy to wait 30 mins and then leave, technically "winning" the round.
You can almost guarantee 30 min no gen games.
Killers and survivors need to earn their points. Just have the game end. Everyone keeps whatever points they have earned and move on.
It doesn't need a complex system.
After 25 mins EGC starts, unopened hatch spawns (must use key). after 5 mins everyone is sacrificed, including the killer. All points retained but you can't pip.
This still allows everyone the chance to complete their objectives, removes the incentive beyond bp to prolong a game but prevents/lessens the desire to DC because you still gain from the round.
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Camping is not holding the game hostage - it is a game mechanic. There are perks designed to help if being camped.
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I gave a similar idea (the time isnt that generous), but someone point out the flaw that Survivors can hide all that time waiting for EGC to start to open Gate escape.
The point of DBD is Survivors work for the Gate open, not survive long enough for it.
But I dont know the Hatch closed cause powering Gates, or EGC powering Gates (I think the first one though). If timer end and EGC start, the Gate should not be powered, and force a Survivor has to die so the other can escape from hatch.
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I believe the devs said they wanted the EGC to be a game-long effect, so that no games are left hostage. It wasnt so much said in these words, but i most definitely remember them wanting to add a mechanic so that there's no painful stalling.
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I always thought there should be a timer, this is after all 'Dead by daylight' , implying a sense of urgency as when daylight comes, it's game over.
IN fact it should be called 'A game which can be extended by a swf for as long as they want.'
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I'm not really up for anything that changes the whole dynamic of the game. Or that punishes everyone for the misdeeds of a few. Plus,if you know something can be abused,it's probably best not to implement it, because you know someone is going to find a way to use it to their advantage immediately,lol. That's just my opinion,though.
Personally the long matches are so rare for me,I can only think of two in my entire playtime. One was a long time ago. The last guy was just Urban Evading around the map with Claudette for an insane amount of time. Was getting so mad they weren't doing anything. I also couldn't find the hatch,so I gave them the benefit of the doubt (it was literally in the very corner of the swamp by the weird vaultable log). Figured they couldn't find it either because they gave up when I closed it.
The second and only other time I can think of...I was Freddy and the last two players were hiding on top of a small hill,lmao. I was going around opening lockers and everything else. Now is that my fault for not seeing them,or theirs for hiding up there? Should we all get punished because I wasn't looking up? Or because they thought it was funny I couldn't see them? What about the players that already died or whatever?
I just feel like it happens to rarely to implement something that changes everything. You know there's going to be people that don't care about the penalty. Now they can just find some place to hide (maybe even one that's an exploit),waste your time,AND make you lose everything. I don't like the timer even without a penalty. It's added stress, especially for new players (and some of the players with disabilities). I do get the fact it's frustrating to have your time wasted though. I wouldn't mind seeing a different idea for a solution.
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Match timers should be a thing. But about DCing get rid of the bans but instead count a survivor DC as a kill for the killer. That way it doesn't mess up the killer since if the killer DCs it already counts the survivors as a escape. So now, going both ways, it give the other guy a win.
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I feel that putting a time limit on a match isn't good. It would just make the game unfun to play if the match only lasts 30 min and you're both playing as best you can but the survivors are stealthing well and are also equally getting gens done. I think that there should be a timer between gen completion times that starts after the first gen pops so that survivors can't just not do the fifth gen so they can look for hatch. I feel like if there's five minutes between when a gen pops and the next one is completed then a survivor that has done the least amount of gens done gets yoinked by the entity and killed. I feel that that would be fair as it pressures survivors to do gens and of they aren't doing gens then they get punished. Or instead of this and having survivors get sacrificed so often the timer could reset once someone does 50 or 75% of gen progress so that you can't just hold the gen with the most progress hostage so survivors get sacrificed.
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I played a lot of Friday the 13th before playing dbd and my suggestion is; after say 20 or 30 min, it should automatically start an end game collapse, gates unlock way slower to give the killer a chance to do their thing still, and the usual end of collapse the survivors get sacraficed. This way it keeps from being held hostage cause I've gone through it on both ends also, and it still lets everyone keep what points they actually made in the game
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Instead of a flat timer I’d be for something like if no player scores any points for 5 minutes then endgame collapse starts to put the game in sudden death. 5 minutes is plenty of time for one side or the other to score points, if neither is doing it then you’re clearly in one of these stalemates.
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My mistake I completely misread that
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Honestly it's real simple. Since delaying the game in that fashion requires specific actions, it can easily be monitored.
For example and sticking with the OP, if the killer is actively looking for survivors while all they do is hide out of site avoiding objectives, that's would be obvious. No chases or hits or anything? Far outside the norm.
The solution starts with a simple question of why that occurred. That's important as I have a some people who the 5 of us play together and get creative. That shouldn't be punished as we are all in agreement.
However, should the killer say different, that they were trying to play a regular match, the first a one time warning to those involved. Any repeat offenders would receive recurring bans infractions continue up to permanent ip ban.
The same goes for killers, though admittedly harder to track as there as there job is to kill survivors. So any excuse can be made. Exceptions would be camping for example as it's too obvious. Checking for survivors is one thing,( what I love the doctor, I have no reason to stick around long.) And staying just out of the perimeter cant really be considered camping. That is with the exception of huntress with ir head especially, hag, gunslinger and maybe spirit. I dont count nurse because she can hook camp from a distance which while camping requires far more skill and effort. Also it is in way for fair.
Tl;dr, even with simple methods, it would be easy to monitor both sides. I'm looking for work, give me the job and I'll do it.
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I'm hard stuck at rank 5 and 6, and I mostly get matched against red rank survivors. The people who did this were all rank 1 console players (I was on PC, so I played against them via crossplay).
I have 300 hours on console and 200 on PC. Not a new player.
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Yeh so . The killer needs to do there job . The map is o my so big
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