Do you feel the game goes downhill or it improved?
After a half year I decided to have a look into the game (Ofc by watching some streams or videos and watching my good old friend @NullSp3c play through screenshare). I've seen various improvements but also some stebs backwards. I am interested to hear some other opinions and views. Without involving any feelings what happened with me and the game I'd say I am dissapointed.
What do you guys think how the game evolved the past half year (From Oni chapter until now)?
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Been on a constant decline since well before the oni chapter.
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Agree, since I cant play anymore my opinion might be less accurate then it could be but I feel the game gets worse in many ways.
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Worse...Console players have a 10 second delay minimum. The controls are obviously different and the changes after purchase of a fully released game not counting bug fixes are well they already know how i feel about it.
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uphill but this event is horrendous
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I think it's mostly due to the devs prioritizing quantity over quality. It's pretty clear at this point they are content to just churn out broken, barely functional features/content as fast as they can.
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it just seems like survivor side is getting slammed hard. Game after game I don’t find it to be any fun. Whether it’s a glitch that gets me where I get stuck when I hug walls or a lag spike that hits me at windows. Skill check dial placement when pushing the button or key seems inaccurate to me and generator regression for missed skill checks seems worse. Survivors just seem to get slammed every single game. Whenever I play killer it’s noticeably easier when you don’t have to rely on others. Plus killers have way too much given to them tbh. Abilities, add ons, Mori’s, maps shrunk awhile back which makes the fast/high mobility killers kind of too strong. There aren’t enough places to hide. Most often in this game you are always going to be out in the open with only a pallet or two around you at any given time. Game honestly seems unenjoyable from a survivor perspective. I didn’t realize I play a game where the maps are mostly unbalanced in their design to let you run from the killer for any extended period of time.
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Definetly improving, albeit slowly
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The devs are known for gutting Killers without real reasons. Dont forget about the first one that got hit the first and hardest... Legion. I also remember that the Devs mentioned that they wanted to adress "gen speed" and the only thing they did was just.... reducing coop repair speed and great skill check, probably the most simple and lazy adjustment they could every come up with. In the end, it didnt help at all. There are ofc many more issues with the game then just genspeed or Killer powers. Long story short, I feel the same way as you do definatly.
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Yes, I always thought about that the solution is not to "slow down" the survivors doing gens and decreasing pallets or objectiles around the map. It would be way more fun increasing the time you spend into 1 game. That means adding another objective that drags out the game, by that you can keep the bigger maps, more pallets without hurting the gameplay flow or increasing the power level of strong Killers. But yeah... sadly the devs decided different...
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i have been around since beta and i can say its been uphill most of the time but the devs have a tendency to stumble and roll down it like this
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Yep, thats also something I realized. Now most of the Killers play Ruin + Undying and sometimes even with Pop. Its just sad to see that you are kinda forced to play with the same perks over and over.
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Pretty accurate video :D
Yeah I am also a beta boy, but I really started playing since Clown though cuz I really didnt like the early state of the game... I guess you can imagine why ... *cough infinits*.
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It's going.....somewhere. I'm optimistic but only in opposition to the sea of despair that surrounds everyone at every waking moment of their day.
Oh you hate the event? Why didn't you hop into the 13th thread that was already created today? But you need your own personal echo chamber of everyone agreeing on the same thing? Ok that's reasonable.
Generic thread that starts with Devs and ends with Suck. How original. You should write books with all these original ideas swimming around in your water filled brain.
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Whenever they take a step forward there's at least two steps backwards along with nerfs no one asked for.
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Imagine complaining about a thead in a forum lul
Edit: I even wrote in the post that I am interested to hear others opinion and views, if you are not willing to read a post and just try to spread your simple minded insults then please go and move on ^^
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You mean where it belongs? The quick and dirty thread merges are one thing but if I take a dump in the refrigerator, you're not supposed to eat it.
Threadssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss. It's constant despair. Ya'll need Xanax.
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Definitely heading downhill.
The community is telling BHVR over and over again that they want bugs fixed, perks rebalanced, killer changes, reduced grind, better optimization (especially for consoles) and matchmaking improvements. Out comes BHVR with map reworks, which no one asked for, and start doing non-nonsensical changes to various perks and to killers (Hillbilly add-ons anyone?). Not to mention the increased grind by adding even more stuff to the bloodweb (like the hatch offerings) and adding more and more stuff. The macrotransactions are only getting worse as well.
They're not listening to the community. At all. We don't matter. Only your wallet does and that they've made clear.
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Bro you need to calm down, I see its abit rough for you but this doesnt mean you need to be that rude now. Lets try to be calm and civil.
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downhill since the ruin nerf / breakable walls patch.
Devs did nothing to weaken loops and pallet chains, and their implementation of breakable walls as things the killer must kick in order to avoid infinites is one of the worst game design decisions I've ever seen.
It's unfortunate that the devs of this game have no idea how its played and have no basic understanding of the game whatsoever, relying almost purely on spreadsheets.
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In term of balance its a huge mix but playerbase are definitely higher. My que times on both sides are almost instant
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I don't think it's an improvement to leave the bug as it is and make unnecessary adjustments.
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Explained using your own biases? Though I suppose I never do see any devs chip in on why their buggy game is so awful. Usually it's chiming in about how they play characters but y'know devs don't play their own game so they're liars.
There is a divide between what people consider validating their opinion. Foundations can't be pulled out on whim. Simply changing a few numbers can mean devastating effects. People need to realize this in a game where the difference between winning and losing is the number 1. One dead survivor snowballs into a win. One extra hit is another down.
Let's take Shrodingers Nurse for example. No one can settle on whether she's still op or terrible. She can still ignore everything in the level to slap your biscuits and can do it quickly, yet she's got terrible add-ons and is hard to control. And flashlights negate her power. What is the final word here?
What I've seen recently is compromise. Plain and simple. Does the Discordance nerf really need a multi page thesis on the behavioral patterns of the long trek genny? They made that change for their game. Players determine the meta but it's the devs job to not make it the entire game.
I mean Ruin was horribly nerfed and no one uses that anymore right? It's a dead perk? Haven't seen it in months. Wait I just hit red ranks.
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I am calm. I just like playing with words. Speech is an art form. So is cooking and arranging vegetables in the garden for that perfect min-max of sunlight and shade.
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Before undying, ruin was largely unused. Corrupt intervention took its place. I will tell you, and I will tell the devs to their face that they don't play their game. The billy rework exemplifies this statement. Especially one of his addons, the one where you would gain movement speed while you're being flashlighted. This epitomizes the fact that the devs don't play their own game, as it shows such an extreme lack of fundamental knowledge of the game that anyone that spends more than a few hours playing will get. Flashlights are primarily used to blind the killer while the killer is stuck in an animation, any flashlight that is not used in this way guarantees a free hit for the killer. There was absolutely no logical reason to even conceive this addon, and the fact that it got into the game shows a lack of understanding by not only the creator, but the people who signed off on adding it.
There's also the algorithm that determines the strength of tiles. This algorithm is so poorly designed that it does not even take into account adjacent tiles, so you can have one map where it's like 2-3 jungle gyms / super safe pallets connected to shack for a literal 5 gen loop, or you can have 2-3 junk tiles connected to an L wall T wall which will easily create a dead zone. There is absolutely no uniformity in this algorithm, maps can have the same 'strength value' but differ so wildly.
And the most important thing here is the attitude of the devs themselves. It is forgivable to not understand all the nuances of your game and high level play, that's fine. What isn't fine is wantonly disregarding what the community says and changing things no one complained about. The devs are knowingly ignorant of their game, they think their thoughts and ideas on the game are far superior than the people who spend thousands of hours playing it. Normal game devs will turn to the community for suggestions when they don't have the technical skill to exploit balance issues. These devs do not have the technical skill to exploit balance issues with the game and they purposefully ignore the community on suggestions.
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The game has been improving, especially balance wise, while they do have some blunders or bad decissions the general improvements surpass them.
Whoever says otherwise they didnt read or play the game in the earlier stages, with real infinite loops, exhaustion recovering while running, getting moried right off the bat (no need for hooks), machine-gun builds, hooks never respawming after Sabotage etc.
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IMO this game has had only uphill changes. While at first glance a lot of changes seem questionable they always seem to improve the game.
If people would ask me what version of the game i want to play the answer almost always is the most recent version.
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The game itself is improving. The dev-community interaction feels like it's slipping faster than ever, especially with the recent event.
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constant decline since shattered bloodline…i like that the devs try to balance the game but y does the gameplay have to suffer?! Seems like they get to much pressure making a fast buck
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All im saying is that the next chapter better be ######### amazing
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I've been playing for a year and a half, and I feel like it's improved as a whole thanks to small QoL changes over time.
However, the amount of DCs I've been seeing recently has been absolutely shocking.
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U should better hope for less chapters and more bug fixing… only real solution for this problem is consumer boycott but white knights can t realize it!
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Still pretty... questionable in my opinion. Small things get changed while there are much bigger glaring issues (DS, Keys, Mori's ect.).
Honestly the game has been pretty stagnant. it really feels like the devs and balance team are very out of touch with the game and the way its works/is played. The lack of transparency/communication doesn't help much either. The survivor favoritism shown frequently (not all the time, but too frequently) kinda stings, and that's as someone who plays both sides. I feel bad for the killer mains, at least I can just hop over to survivor.
Its like, small things get changed, but big problems remain, and more problems get added. The changes are very slow, even ones that could be simple and help a lot.
I'm hoping for the best in this game but it really doesn't feel like it'll change anytime soon, and its not in a good state atm.
That's my current view at least.
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I took a break for a good few months. When I returned to playing I found the game to be vastly improved. I mostly just play survivor, so that is the only side of the game I can have an informed opinion on.
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Waited for it to me moved to this section lol
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Well there was some good Idea like the endgame, the matchmaking is better since the crossplay, the nerf or ruin, more balanced maps...
But for me the main problems are the optimisation of the game and this ######### hit validation.
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This year especially, the game has gotten worse. Things like the Freddy and Doctor reworks were good. Then, for some reason, the devs' design philosophy changed.
Things really started to go downhill with the chainsaw reworks. Nobody asked for them, yet we got them. And for what? I see a lot less Hillbilly players now - same with when the Nurse was reworked. But they buffed Leatherface to a point where he's one of the most common killers now.
Then came the Blight PTB, where we got an outdated build and people started to question why we're even given a PTB to begin with if we're not testing the latest build. Blight was negatively-received on the PTB, but somehow was ok by release - no thanks to player feedback, which you'd think the PTB was for.
Then we got the mid-chaper PTB a few weeks ago, which was almost universally hated, but player feedback was completely ignored and the unnecessary perk changes still happened. Why do we have a PTB? Why do these feedback forums exist? Is it so we have a place to vent, rather than actually provide the developers with useful feedback and suggestions? Because the overwhelming majority of feedback, even if the community unanimously agrees on it, is ignored.
According to steamcharts.com, DBD's player base has dropped by over 20% in the last month. I feel like this will continue if the devs don't get their ######### together and listen to us.
We, as a community, want to enjoy the game. I think most of us can agree on that. The problem is, each new update brings changes that make it harder and harder to enjoy. I have never known a "live service" game like this be so half-assed. Why are updates every 6+ weeks? Why do we STILL have the no survivor audio bug that's existed since what, Deathslinger's release? Where's this new MMR system the devs were so confident about? Why is it taking so long for server-side hit validation to be properly implemented? Why aren't Moris, Keys, Iridescent Heads, NOED, and Decisive Strike being addressed? Why are maps and RNG almost hilariously unbalanced? I don't even think they're trying at this point. That or they got too big for their boots and are crumbling under the pressure.
It honestly feels like the art team is the only part of Behaviour who are actually competent at their jobs. Some of the skins have been great. But I guess that's the point, isn't it? Selling skins. Balance changes don't make money. Making the game more enjoyable doesn't make money. Except it probably would, because players would stick around to buy the damn skins if they had a reason to keep playing.
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Honestly the abysmal matchmaking is what makes this game damn near unplayable (for me). If you play solo survivor then you stand a good chance of being paired up with a good team, whereas if you're matched against a good team as a killer, then it's nothing but a sweat fest, especially if God forbid you're new to the game or a casual player.
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Which is again personal biases and people being a nuisance just for attention. Then they play victim saying WHAD I DOO?
Going "they didn't listen to the communities suggestions" is anecdotal as well. Lots of people hated Billy but we don't listen to those people. They're CrAZy.
Ruin was gaining steam even before Undying. The benefit of running someone off a gen and being able to continue chase was always an underrated ability.
Corrupt is a placebo. They'll still manage 2 gens at the beginning of the match if they're swf, and we all know all these kneeslap reactions are from coordinated teams bullying killers.
The devs (unpopular fact) actually did listen to community feedback. Billy was way too oppressive. The community ( when you weren't just blindly looking at reviews that said Billy is fine) said he needed only an add-on review. The community also said he should get a cooldown mechanic which was suggested by the community. The community also didn't like the cooldown mechanic in the PTB so it was reeled back to being almost non-existent.
The community is also not a big blob of people with the same hivemind. So when you say community, it's meaningless to make them out to be a conformist group all agreeing on the same thing. It's a pointless term. I'm part of the community? Right? Or did I not meet the standard guidlines of not having my own opinion?
The maps? Yeah I can agree on that. Though what would be a better solution? Baked in maps with hooks and loops all in the same place? The game might run better (CoD doesn't have to randomly determine if your camping spot still exists) but then everyone will all play the same on those maps going straight for the safest routes and loops.
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in terms of balance it has gotten better, way better in fact compared to last year and the year before that.
in terms of the devs decisions? horrible they broke the exclusive no longer being a thing except for legacy and made it a limited code no less. they also provided a severely disappointing event and didn't even give us a single free cosmetic compared to the two full sets we received the last two blight events. they also said OoO was in a ok state due to stats which is SO STUPID, of course its weak for a solo player and the ones who use it die however the reason they die is because if you don't kill them you will lose. it provides stupid amounts of information ad destroys 3 killers which ALONE justifies a rework.
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I'm curious as to how DbD would have fared if the pandemic hadn't forced everyone to computers in numbers considerably greater than previously. I also wonder if the coincidental influx of players caused the dev team to affirm some of their own biases about the value and "correctness" of their decisions without any actual evidence.
I really would love for this game to be something enjoyable for its own sake, but I just don't see that happening given the way things have been done. I...I grow tired of so much of the decisions and comments the devs make seemingly out of the blue only to be visible in hindsight as part of an encroaching trend of "would-rather-not"s. And none of this is really in any way a criticism of any programmer's or artist's ability but of the structure behind it all.
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Hit validation is a lie, like I still got hit from 6 meters away after I fast vaulted while I'm having 40 ping.
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What Hector said. The game has been improving. The recent problem of Undying + Ruin is very real and it's an epidemic that needs addressing. The current killer meta is Undying + Ruin + Tinkerer + BBQ on almost every killer. It's lame as can be for so many perks to exist but those are chosen 50%+ of the time. Similar issues exist for the survivor-sided Decisive Strike + Unbreakable + Dead Hard + Spine Chill/Other, but in my opinion it isn't as bad.
But other than that, the game has gotten so much better, especially for killers. Pawcelot couldn't be more wrong that people weren't asking for map reworks (unless they meant the updated textures) because god loops were considered by many experienced players to be the worst thing in the game, and now they are basically gone, which is a critical game improvement (this coming from a survivor main). I also happen to think that (WELL-PLACED) breakable walls for strong loops is a really cool gameplay aspect that they are getting better at.
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Also even if he was right and people didnt ask for map reworks, BHVR did correctly guess some maps (a lot of them actually) are the real problem, gen rushing for example is a problem only on huge maps like Mother's Dwelling or Disturbed Ward where low mobility Killers cant patrol anything, looping was only a problem on god-loop and pallet city maps etc (I guess bigger maps will get the rework later as they need more work than just opening a door or they will get fixed with that slow early game mechanic they are making).
Sometimes you have to ignore the screams and focus on the root of the problem, and I agree with you, perks are a problem and for me is not that current meta things are too strong (except 1 or 2 per side) but the other perks are way too weak or too niche or both.
People wont stop asking for nerfs for meta and then what? what are we supposed to play? Slippery Meat+Streetwise+Red Herring+Babysitter? Monstrous+Zanshin+Overwhelming+Predator? BVHR buffed some perks and the response from a lot of people was "you buffed stuff instead of nerfing what we told you to nerf!! B-I-A-S!!" if you want people to stop picking meta perks they need to be able to select other viable perks.
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I meant the updated textures and mat designs.
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Two steps forward, one step back. For every cool killer released, for every good balance patch, we have weeks of hearing nothing from devs, or they make some stupid change that feels really greedy or completely ignorant of the community's wants or needs.
There are clearly some competent people working at BHVR, especially the art team. But I feel like they're being hamstrung by the corporate puppets.
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It went from litterally broken game, to a broken game, to a slightly balanced game but still broken, to broken again, to a high point of balance that was still not balanced, to a reloop of this like 8 times, to somewhat balanced but mostly not which is what we have today.
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ruin wasn't gaining steam, corrupt replaced ruin, and some people still used ruin. It doesn't seem you have much experience in the game to understand why old ruin was so good and corrupt is so good, it's the fact that they give the killer map pressure at the start of the match when the killer has no map pressure. Getting survivors off of gens and running around is the best way to get the first survivor hooked and to start the cycle of always keeping 2-3 survivors off gens. Old ruin got people off gens and cleansing totems. New ruin rewards staying on a gen instead of leaving it, making new ruin much more weaker, given the context of why ruin was used in the first place, to help secure that very important first hook and start the snowball of the game. Now it's a slowdown perk and must be paired with a patrol-heavy strategy to get the full value of it. This is why corrupt largely replaced ruin.
No one talked about nerfing billy's power. People are not going to argue for more static and boring gameplay, they will argue for more complex and dynamic gameplay. The major issues with your argument here is that people like back revving / curving with billy and the fact that there was such an outcry after his nerf because no one wanted his power touched. People just wanted insta saw gone. I would like you to prove what you said with some kind of evidence, because no one was saying anything about his power, only his addons. The devs even made a post alluding to this, that they would like to see killers have to strategically use their powers not just spam them when they changed billy's power.
When I say community, I'm bringing up a consensus of people who are willing to share their views, including good players. Your personal opinion doesn't matter too much in this regard, because I'm taking the opinions of many people and weighing them, especially people who have spent thousands of hours on the game.
The simplest fix to maps is to actually write a good algorithm for determining a tile's strength and realize that adjacent tiles also contribute to a tile's strength. One of the strongest tile combinations in the game is to have a jungle gym window facing a junk pallet tile, and this happens very frequently. A lot of times this junk pallet will lead to another fairly strong safe pallet. 3 good tiles in a row is enough to single handedly win the game for the survivors, as the time wasted negotiating them gives survivors enough extra time to do gens and escape before the killer can hook them 3 times each.
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I largely agree with you. I feel 80ish% of what is needed for perks on both sides are buffs, and the other 20% small nerfs. I made a post that suggested changes to every perk, and most of the changes were buffs to those perks you never see on either side.
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Why does everyone assume I just bought the game yesterday?
Old Ruin punished non-swf and people who couldn't hit great skill checks every time all the time. It was a pub stomper and nothing more. Swf broke it within seconds (then killer dc's lmao) and for everyone else it meant that you hated the person next to you because one slip up (which was every skillcheck) and the gen would stop dead.
Combined with perks that screwed up skillchecks, it was either break the totem or die. That wasn't an early game perk, it was a win easy perk.
Good players. And how was that consensus achieved? Do they go "I main THIS character" and then it's the word of god? Unless they're mouthbreathing streamers, everyone that says that must be taken with a grain of salt. And you don't need to be very good to use the top tier killers. That's part of the issue.
You like things dynamic and not static? How is using the same perk and killer for every game dynamic? The gameplay loop is always going to come down to chasing so why is doing that with less than favorable conditions so repulsive? People don't want a game, they just want to win with no conditions. Hollow victories.
Billy was absolutely a walking hollow victory. A single down was always another hook trade waiting to happen. Didn't matter your status or angle of attack. He accelerated faster than you could respond, and he had the advantage of never not having his power at all times and always had it on demand. The severe drop in his usage only reveals how inflexible his fanbase were. And even more poignant how much of an issue every other part of the game is if they need that much firepower to win.
On the main topic: I think the game needs more systems refined, and more nuance to already existing systems. I've poked the cow on several occasions but no one wants to seem to budge.
But for their decisions thus far on approaching killer balancing, I do indeed think they're going in the right direction.
That said, survivors have gradually been getting nerfs themselves albeit at a much slower pace. And they absolutely deserve more. Like reverse bloodlust or something. Survivors get slower the longer they're in a chase. And gen tapping is still an annoying advantage.
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"A single down was always another hook trade waiting to happen. Didn't matter your status or angle of attack. He accelerated faster than you could respond, and he had the advantage of never not having his power at all times and always had it on demand."
I am not sure if you maybe just wrote that different how you meant that or you never really played billy, but if you would played that Killer just enough then you would definatly never say something like this. There was a reason why the majority of the community called him the "probably most balanced Killer ingame". It was and still is definatly not possible to "always" use the power and "always hook trade" if the survivors played smart. Also if you are getting hook traded as survivor, it is your own fault if that happens, not the Killers fault, otherwise you could also blame leatherface for beeng op cuz he can do the same even better.
Also to mention that on most maps you will not be able to chainsaw around the half of the map in 1 go unless its Coldwind. There are rarely spots where you can chainsaw around the map and most of these ways or spots are very specific, if you would just avoid these areas then you will be fine.
Long story short, I think that argument is not justified.
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