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do you think OoO is ok?

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Comments

  • notstarboard
    notstarboard Member Posts: 3,903
    edited October 2020

    That's a fair point, especially for maps with limited RNG in their layouts, and with verticality such that things like a TR and Spine Chill aren't quite as useful. Still, though, if you're playing at a high level, how often does your squad really not know where the killer is to the point where OoO would actually provide information strong enough to consider the perk broken? That's gotta be pretty uncommon after the first chase starts. I tend to play with pretty casual SWF buddies and we still have a good idea of where the killer is for most of the match.

    If the killer has high mobility and exceptionally strong 1v1, like Spirit or Nurse, it's risky to show your aura. If the killer has stealth, it's actively detrimental to run OoO. If the killer is running a snowballing build, like an Oni or Plague might, it's also pretty useless to run OoO because for the most part they're only going to be triggering their power when they know where survivors are and vice versa. For Trapper though, I agree, it's pretty devastating.

    On the whole I see it as a high-risk, high-reward option even in a strong, four-man squad. You need to get lucky on the map and on the killer for it to come in handy, and even then, if the killer is a strong player they could certainly just use it to find you and camp you out of the game. If your squad is smart they'll rush gens and the killer won't get more than two kills, but you're also unlikely to keep running that perk that repeatedly gets you camped on the hook. In practice I find that the object usually isn't great at looping, their squad clearly isn't communicating effectively enough for me to struggle to find and down survivors, and in the rare event that the object is a great player and I decide to camp them, the team usually just feeds me free pressure instead of rushing gens.

    Edit: And the other piece to keep in mind is that it's pretty detrimental if the killer generates pressure and the object needs to come relieve it. They either need to deny themselves visibility on a lot of the map while putting themselves into a dangerous position, or they risk showing the killer their location while some of their teammates are incapacitated.

  • Xyvielia
    Xyvielia Member Posts: 2,418

    If this Solo match answers your question for you, wonderful.

    ”I think we’ve done a pretty good job so far” against them

    I see nothing wrong with using them, and I don’t mind them used against me.

    If that puts me in the minority, so be it.

    I refuse to join the complaint squad on everything that presents a decent challenge in this game.

  • Slashstreetboy
    Slashstreetboy Member Posts: 1,811

    How nice, I played a solo match yesterday and we all made it out against an iri head ebony mori huntress. It was a great game, really tense and fun.

    I´d argue though that playing Trapper against a good object team is more than a "decent challenge".

  • Xyvielia
    Xyvielia Member Posts: 2,418
  • Slashstreetboy
    Slashstreetboy Member Posts: 1,811

    It really should be :D to be fair though this Huntress wasn´t Umbra level or sth, if she was we would have been screwed.

  • Xyvielia
    Xyvielia Member Posts: 2,418

    I mean, come on... it’s Umbra.

    Those are the matches you walk away from when it’s all said and done, knowing, no matter how it plays out, the iri head doesn’t always make the player, it’s more often the player that makes the iri head.

  • Axe
    Axe Member Posts: 1,060

    As long as I dont play Trapper, I wont really have much issues with OOO

  • sensovsky
    sensovsky Member Posts: 102

    i would not say it's balanced but it's not cracked for sure, more like it's just annoying when u play Hag or Trapper, otherwise i don't have any problems with it

  • Hex_Llama
    Hex_Llama Member Posts: 1,846

    I don't think the issue is Object, per se. I think the issue is comms and the game not being balanced with the expectation that the survivors are using them. That's kind of a Forever Issue with DBD.

    I also think there's a secondary issue with Object in that the people who tend to run it are people who WANT the killer to see them constantly, and those people tend to be trolly. Again, not a problem with the perk on its own -- but a pattern in how it gets used.

    So, I can see how, from a developer's POV, if you're just running the stats, it would look like it's balanced and fine. But, from a player's POV, every time someone has Object, you have one of the worst, most annoying matches of the day.

  • Eninya
    Eninya Member Posts: 1,256

    Alert is the better solo perk, but the issue is the permanent vision in groups.

  • MadLordJack
    MadLordJack Member Posts: 8,814

    Oh, gods, no. Not even for a solo player. It's just too much info, and too much of a head start, with no real downside. My teams escape rates go up every time I equip this perk, and I'm solo.

  • Hoodied
    Hoodied Member Posts: 13,022

    Due to the maps layout, the obsession can infinitely run away from you and you can never catch up to them as you cannot cut them off and due to the 2 staircases and 1 secret passage the map contains, its almost impossible to catch up to them without losing every generator

  • CaptainRaider
    CaptainRaider Member Posts: 154

    Yes, SWF is the problem not OoO. If SWF would just get taken care of maybe the game can finally be balanced for all the solo queue players (both killer AND survivor).

  • Marigoria
    Marigoria Member Posts: 6,090

    As a solo survivor, I find it quite fun to use paired with no mither, for a good meme build

  • NocturnalPie
    NocturnalPie Member Posts: 25

    I think OoO would work better as a perk that forces the survivor to give more than they take. For example, OoO could be a toggleable perk where for every 20 seconds you allow the killer to see your aura you gain a token, up to 3 lets say. Each of these tokens you spend gives you 10 seconds of the killer's aura at any distance.

    With 3 other teammates you could easily just get those 20 second periods out of the way while the killer is chasing someone else, it'd allow you to get information on the killer when you needed it without it being constant and it would mean the killer wouldn't be under constant observation from SWF.

    It'd still retain a similar functionality but I reckon this would work better.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,677

    It should be banned in SWF and not work on stealth moded killers.

  • Kumnut768
    Kumnut768 Member Posts: 789

    you can always stay on the inside and on the opposite side of the map to the killer and you just have to look were they are and just hold W and run around in a square, effectively making you uncatchable

  • James4125
    James4125 Member Posts: 266

    It's the most overpowered perk in the game on both sides. It offers huge utility (that I and many others touched upon in the other thread) and potential and has little to no counter play.

    The only real counter play is blindness that outside of object and slugging builds is almost useless!

  • Ghouled_Mojo
    Ghouled_Mojo Member Posts: 2,287

    No.

  • IMhereRUN
    IMhereRUN Member Posts: 606

    OoO only OP is a SWF of 3 or more that are well organized.

    A team with poor communication renders OoO obsolete, even in a 4-Man SWF.

    Unfortunately, the game’s been out too long, there’s far too many media videos and “how-to” content that literally leaves nothing you can’t learn about the game from actual gameplay. This of course, leading to my premature opinion that the majority of teams using it will be quite effective with it.

    For soloQ, balanced perfectly.

  • AChaoticKiller
    AChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104
    edited October 2020

    actually without OoO you can only give vague information on the killer such as if he is heading a certain direction or is in a certain area and that ends when you dont have sight on the killer. OoO allows for you to give detailed information constantly regardless of where you are other than inside the TR and thats a big difference. a great example is if the killer is looping your friend and you tell your friend every move the killer makes such as moon walking or faking out. A simple word such as "reverse or turn" can tell your friend to go the other way and that wastes a lot of the killers time. what makes OoO brokenly OP is the information it provides to a swf and how its used with how broken it is corresponding to how skillful the user is at providing information and their looping skills to waste time if they get chased.

    with OoO you can always tell you team the killers position at all times which can be used for even higher coordination to the point where if the killer goes for anyone other than the OoO providing that the OoO is giving constant information it allows for survivors to leave area's or get to loops before the killer can even see them.

    If your not good at looping you dont run the perk meaning if your good and plan to waste time for your team as they do gens the killer is screwed unless they outplay you until you die which on certain maps like Ormond is extremely hard. in a way if you plan on your team winning and not individual survival this is the best perk for that and because getting chased gives a lot of points and even emblem score the survivor often wins anyway in terms of points/pips.

    against stealth killers this perk works like a constant premonition and if you have map knowledge its not hard to figure out the killers general location. sure on some maps it is pretty bad against stealth killers like in The Game but on most maps simply knowing the direction of the killer is enough to spot them fast enough to get to a loop. stealth killers are also pretty bad in a chase so a good survivor with OoO can just take the initial hit if they fail to spot the killer fast enough/guess if he is coming and then just loop normally and waste a ton of time.

    the perk is fine if its on a solo survivor but the existence of swf makes this perk brokenly OP so it has to be changed with the existence of swf in mind so it can't be so abusable. the fact that it destroys trapper, hag, and freddy alone justifies it to be changed.

  • Kolonite
    Kolonite Member Posts: 1,346

    The only time it’s broken is with a coordinated swf. I mostly play GF so OoO bothers me far less than most.

  • Slashstreetboy
    Slashstreetboy Member Posts: 1,811

    Yeah tell Trapper players about it :P

    Nah jk glad your main Killer is less affected! It´s extremely rough for almost every other Killer.

  • Kolonite
    Kolonite Member Posts: 1,346

    The only two killers that are going to be affected to any real degree by a solo player with OoO is Hag and Trapper. Which is fine. There are perks that counter certain killers. Spinechill counters stealth killers. It’s only broken when a swf is using it and using it well.

  • AChaoticKiller
    AChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104

    dont forget freddy, once your in dream word you have constant information and he can't even mind game you and you even see him place snares so playing safe at pallets is ridiculously easy.

  • Slashstreetboy
    Slashstreetboy Member Posts: 1,811

    Sure, I agree. I wouldn´t even mind Object in it´s current form as Trapper if used by a solo player honestly. Contrary to SC, there´s no counterplay to that though, but the oppressive nature of Object only ever shows in a SWF. I hope more people give their feedback about Object in Feedback and Suggestions, the mods seem to believe the issue is more likely to be noticed there. Maybe it will even convince a particular DEV that there´s more to this than escape rates of a single user.

  • AChaoticKiller
    AChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104

    then let the OoO tell the rest if you go literally anywhere other than to the OoO user so all other survivors always get a massive head start in a chase before you even see them. -thinking of the bigger picture here

    thats what a good OoO swf does so unless your a high mobility killer and even then you are always at a massive disadvantage until the OoO is dead.

    a perk that gives a whole team constant information with no actual counter play with a downside for only one of the survivors and its isn't even that bad is not ok or balanced regardless of how uncommon it is to go against.

  • jerakal
    jerakal Member Posts: 246

    And how exactly do you propose they "fix" SWFs? Force the game to close if your mic gets activated? Stop people from playing on teams?

    Doesn't it make more sense to nerf the perk that gives teams unlimited map info, than to try to find some way to stop people from using mics on teams? Honestly, killers should just get a speed buff or something if they queue into a swf, or at least some bonus bloodpoints. But that's really besides the point I'm trying to make.

    How would you fix SWF, and how would that be easier than just making OoO less obnoxious?

  • Saitamfed
    Saitamfed Member Posts: 1,622
    edited October 2020

    I get your point but... there are two "hidden staircases", the one with the crumbled concrete. Which is on a classroom.

    And the other behind breakable walls that is on the bathroom.

  • AChaoticKiller
    AChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104

    they wont help you cut off the survivor you literally just have to keep yourself on the opposite side of the school and there are no good ways to cut the survivor off. that is the best map in the game for a OoO user.

  • CaptainRaider
    CaptainRaider Member Posts: 154

    Sometimes the easier solution is the least permanent. A band-aid where stitches are necessary.

    I propose giving debuffs to groups larger than 2. This can include a 15% gen speed decrease, an increase of gen regression when a gen is regressing by 50% for three man and 100% at 4 man, giving a dying light functionality where the random 4th gets an action speed bonus while the swf gets a slight action debuff, and/or survivors aren’t allowed to use the same perks on more than 2 survivors

    Just minor changes to swf w/o sacrificing quality of life for solo queue.

  • notstarboard
    notstarboard Member Posts: 3,903
    edited October 2020

    That's really not true, for two reasons. First, most of the time you do know exactly where the killer is, even if you don't see them every step of the way. For example, let's say you get hooked and the killer beelines towards a gen across the map where a teammate is. Do you see the killer walk all of the way there? No. Is it very likely that they have BBQ and will continue to beeline towards the gen? Yes. Second, running OoO still doesn't necessarily mean your teammates will have as precise information as you do. Let's say you're playing on Lery's. Are you going to be able to call out which room the killer is in just based on their aura? No, almost certainly not. Even if you've developed a convention with your team such that you know which sides of the map are the top and bottom, the best you'll be able to do is say, "he's in the middle about 1/4 of the way to the top", or something of that nature. That's not a whole lot better than what you'd get just by paying attention to your TR, using your eyes, and using any other tracking perks.

    In theory it can be used to make your teammates loop gods, but not really in practice. I'm a red rank killer, which is relevant, because matchmaking is rank-based. I have literally never had a game with an OoO watching me the whole way through my chases and with teammates that were unreasonably good at predicting my mindgames. There are only a minority of loops where that's ever going to be helpful, because the survivor needs time to react to the callout, and only if the killer is moving in a very predictable way. If all they ever to is walk backwards or turn around, sure. What if they start to walk backwards like a classic moonwalk, then reverse and moonwalk the other way? That move often gets hits within a second or two on decent players - they double back when you show the red stain around the corner and then it goes away because they assume you're moonwalking, and then they end up running right into you. If you called out the original moonwalk, they'd run right back into me by the time you had time to call out the second... you get the idea. You could probably bully some killers with no anti-looping power who try to mindgame bigger loops, but in general, good luck with that.

    If the object is able to win their 1v1 with the killer and waste a massive amount of time, props to them. In a fair matchmaking system, though, that should not happen much, and against many killers it's not happening unless the matchmaking is really busted. Like, good luck running a killer like Spirit, Nurse, or Clown for long enough to save time for your team. The best you can hope for is to bait the killer into chasing you away from the gens they're defending, but if you're far away from the gens they also don't need to bother with you.

    Against stealth killers this perk is straight up garbage. You get to see maybe what third of the map the killer is on, which is not particularly useful information, and in return they get to see your aura, which is very useful for a killer with no TR. Especially against a killer like Ghost Face that has pretty much perfect stealth, you're pretty much just going to get destroyed. You won't know if they're 10m away or 72m away until they walk around the corner. If stealth killers are bad in the chase, and OoO makes it easy for them to hit you for free, you would get way more utility out of something like Spine Chill, or Sprint Burst, or really anything that can help prevent you from taking that first hit.

    This perk does destroy Trapper, agreed. This perk does not destroy Freddy or Hag. Freddy's snares make mindgames irrelevant at loops. In other words, even if you have actual wall hacks on him while you're looping, he can still rapidly shut down tiles with his snares and force you to leave them. Unless this is one of the first chases of the game and you get a really favorable match seed, you're probably not going to be able to consistently move from safe tile to safe tile. He's going to force you out of a loop, there's going to be no next loop close enough, and you're going to take a hit. Meanwhile, Hag just sets traps far too frequently and they're way too hard to see and then safely disarm for you to be able to damage her web faster than she can repair it without taking free hits and while still doing gens. Even if you have four flashlights and an OoO, by the time you communicate and destroy the one trap she'll have set three more. You also very likely won't know exactly enough where they are to communicate the location to teammates in the area if you're relatively far away. You'll be able to say, "she put a few traps near the corner jungle gym", but you won't be able to communicate them precisely enough for your teammates to find them and just barely trigger them to avoid a free hit.

    -----

    This perk is extremely rare at red rank, four-man SWF or no four-man SWF. The question I have is "If this perk is just stupid OP, why is it so rare? Why has it not become meta?" For every one SWF with an object, you'll have like 20 with the normal Dead Harb/SB, UB, DS, BT/Adrenaline. I think the answer is a combination of things. 1) It doesn't provide nearly as much meaningful information as people say it does, especially when you factor in not being able to scan your surroundings when you don't want the killer to see your aura and 2) It is not fun to use, because it gets you tunneled / makes some killers salty, it's actively detrimental against stealth killers, it's weak against highly mobile killers with strong 1v1 (e.g. Spirit, Nurse), it's weak or even detrimental when the killer has built up pressure and the object is forced to come help relieve it, it forces you to be too careful about where you look during the match, and it generally forces you to sweat your balls off to even try to get good use out of it.

    If when MMR comes back OoO enters the ultra-high MMR meta, I'll eat my words. As it stands now, though, it feels more like a noob stomper or "I think I'm better than you" perk than something that's consistently useful. You can tilt baby killers, who will mindlessly chase you for a few gens, and then if and when they give up you can just torment them with it for the rest of the match. Good killers will be able to better exploit the information they're getting back from you, and will be strong enough in the chase that the main issue is not knowing where they are: it's figuring out how to prolong chases. If they want you out of the game, you will be out of the game, and your SWF mates are less likely to just rush gens if the killer is camping you because SWFs are usually way too altruistic. That's more fun, after all.

  • Kumnut768
    Kumnut768 Member Posts: 789

    this is about midwich not lerys and its not about callouts its about the way midwich is designed that allows you to always stay far away from the killer with them almost never catching you

    im not saying its bad cause of callouts and stealth killers and trap killers and all of that i cba to get into all that but specifically for midwich

    this is the layout, the main hallways work as a square and have 2 sets of stairs in the corners with two entrances to the courtyard on opposite ends. this is where OoO comes in, since there is no way to cut off the survivor that is sat at the end of the map other than run in a square chasing them, with OoO you can see which direction of the square they are moving and constantly reposition to make it so that they cant catch them without spending countless minutes chasing them in a square

  • notstarboard
    notstarboard Member Posts: 3,903

    Oh yeah, no I 100% agree with you on Midwich. It can take way too long to get to the object, and two-story maps make tracking the killer based on TR, Spine Chill, Premonition, etc. way harder, so the information is a lot more valuable. The only killers that wouldn't be too bothered would be Nurse, because she can get upstairs quickly, and Doctor, because typical Doctor builds would make his TR cover basically the whole map. Maybe Hag too, just because she's an absolute menace on that map and I don't think Object is enough to slow her down :D

  • Accullla
    Accullla Member Posts: 984

    Survivors always have a head start. It's called your terror radius. That's unless you're playing a Stealth killer, most of will be undetectable anyway. The thing is, survivors often choose to stay at a tile, instead of using their head start. If a good OoO team has used that information against you, so you can never get into a chase with them, then you're pretty unlucky. No one plays like that unless they're pretty competitive and want to win at all costs, at which point they paid for their escape with a bunch of boring matches.

    The point is, people calling out your location with OoO doesn't change much.

  • PubStar87
    PubStar87 Member Posts: 187

    Otzdarva did an entire video about it. He's godly as Killer. If even HE hates OoO, maybe we should all take note.

  • Accullla
    Accullla Member Posts: 984
    edited October 2020

    My man! You must be fun at parties!

    Seriously though, sorry to burst your bubble, but you're the problem, not the solution. Also, unless they're an absolute potato, a person using OoO usually wants to get chased, so by trying to make their game 'unfun' you're actually giving them exactly what they want 😉

  • Slashstreetboy
    Slashstreetboy Member Posts: 1,811

    Unless you play Trapper that is. Or as you described they use object to add a massive headstart to every chase. It´s not extremely common, but it happens, and when a good team uses object well, it´s extremely OP vs many Killers.

  • Accullla
    Accullla Member Posts: 984

    Yeah, it does counter trapper, but there are plenty of perks that counter specific killers' kit, so OoO isn't any different here - e.g. DH vs nurse, iron will vs spirit and so on. It's pretty annoying, but there are plenty of offenders in that category.

    On your second point - a lot of things in this game are OP. Thing is, people actively choose not to use them in that way, because it makes their own game boring - just a few examples: using OoO to give your team a head start, using iri heads as huntress, 99ing sprint bursts, 1st hook mories, keying out of hatch at 1 gen left, 'forever' killer builds and so on - the list could go on.

  • Slashstreetboy
    Slashstreetboy Member Posts: 1,811

    None of your examples are counters to the extend Object is against Trapper though. Not even close, man.

    The rest you mentioned is kinda pointless here, since we´re talking Object and not Iri Head, for example.

  • AChaoticKiller
    AChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104

    that argument is ridiculous, good survivors will literally do gens in your face if that will get the gen done and certain killers have smaller TR's or high mobility so they will normally see you before you hear them. calling out where the killer is headed so the survivor can move early does have a massive impact on how a chase would have went and while you can argue that this can still be done without OoO its undeniable that OoO makes this way more easier, common, and consistent because you always know the killers actions regardless of line of sight.

    Even if your a killer who can activate undetectable at will the perk is still good as you basically have a constant premonition and with map knowledge its not hard to narrow down the killers location or even just spot them before they get to you. also with OoO its not a question of "this sort of way its used isn't common" its how it can be used regardless of any in game factors because all thats required to use it to its best is being good at communicating which anyone can get better at because its not an in game skill.

    lastly a good swf with OoO changes a lot of things as you wont ever get the jump on someone without playing as 1 of 4 stealth killers who are so mediocre that they loss to a good swf anyways. again its not about how its commonly used its how it can be used depending on the communication skills of its user which is not an in game factor that depends on skill. there isn't a way to defend this perk without trying to make it seem less strong then it is which you tried to do and there is PLENTY of proof that its broken if you simply use logic to determine its potential usage and compare the benefits to any other survivor perk and look at how easily that can be preformed by SWF groups. the answer is as long as whoever uses it is good at communication using OoO to its fullest isn't to difficult to set up you just need the right players which is not an in game factor used to decide balance. therefor the argument of its not often used like that often isn't valid because you can set this up before the match starts so how effective the perk is is entirely up to how you prepared before hand. its not a situational thing like DS being used in a locker or Mettle of men activating after getting protection hits you dont need to do any in game actions for this perk to work at its best just set up work before hand and non indoor map.

  • Elena
    Elena Member Posts: 2,187

    that's like saying oh a plane can crash but it doesn't happen a lot so that makes it okay!

  • AChaoticKiller
    AChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104

    In my eyes there are things you are just wrong about, btw im also a red rank killer for about 3 years with close to 8k kills and over 1700 hours. I dont feel like trying to address everything inside a paragraph normally so just address these points.

    1. not knowing the exact location of the killer and how to call that out isn't relevant because it depends on the communication skills of its user and not being able too call the killer out is really only hard in indoor maps which there are few of. a player can simply get better at communicating and set up a good team before a match starts for this perk to be at its best. this addresses your first two paragraphs which is just dependent on the users skill at communicating so these things like calling out moon walking with 1 quick word can be done.
    2. against stealth killers this perk is only bad in indoor maps which are in the minority of maps and its very good against them in more open maps like cornfields. at best the stealth killer which there are only 4 of will land a hit just like normal but then if a survivor is good at looping pretty much none of those killers can do anything to that survivor until they get to an unsafe area assuming the user is skilled which we are so this perk isn't garbage against them however you might die from the info it gives the killer from getting chased to much but you should be able to waste enough of their time for your team to win which is what this perks goal is so you still win in the end.
    3. this perk destroys freddy tf you mean lol. you can literally see freddy place snares so they only help if he has pre set snares which he only has a few he can place and it doesn't always give you a hit. against freddy its easy as hell to play safe at any pallet that allows it so im just gunna say your wrong about that. as for Hag which im a hag main it does destroy her because they see where you set the trap and can trigger any of them at max distance and turn around which doesn't get you the hit unless its super unsafe which then they don't bother with it, if they have a flashlight your mega screwed. they can also call out where the majority of your traps are and your team and do the gens in that area or just ignore/stay away from that area and leave a gen far away before risking doing a gen in her web. it doesn't matter how often she can set the traps unless she has more than 6 ready and an OoO user will just follow you and destroy them which they should do because the hag is screwed unless they tunnel the OoO, again im a hag main who has gone against this a good swf with OoO is just not beatable for her unless she camps and gets lucky. she simply cant start a chase and then use her pre-set traps to quickly end them with reliability unless a majority of her traps are set or they are in really good spots and haven't already been disarmed.
    4. doesn't matter how rare it is you can set it up with ease and time before a match starts, that argument simply isn't valid because it doesn't depend on any in game factors. here's a comparison how often do you see a god nurse? they are still around and are undoubtable the best killer but they are rare AF so does that mean nurse isn't strong/the best? you could say that the difficulty of nurse is what makes her being the best killer in game to borderline OP but here's the thing. OoO doesn't require actual mechanical skill, to use this perk to its best in terms of info you just need to be good at communicating which in honesty unless you are shy or something thats easy AF and you can get good at call outs with just a little bit of practice compared to the hundreds of hours nurse gods have put into nurse to get good at her.

    again my main points are these, the perk is good depending on how good the user is at communicating so calling out more difficult things is a possibility, it doesn't matter how rare it is because every aspect not including map(but it can be) can be pre set up to use the perk at its best, stealth killer have a slightly higher advantage against OoO but they wont be able to quickly down them with their ability because they will be spotted and a normal chase will happen so that just helps them find you, the fact that it destroys THREE killers justifies a nerf and you can argue about freddy not caring but in honesty he just becomes clown when a loop happens because its not hard to play safe and as someone with more experience against this as a hag and i can just say you wrong and i have provided why already.

  • notstarboard
    notstarboard Member Posts: 3,903
    edited October 2020

    I agree the ceiling is very high for OoO, but the floor is also low and the risk of running it is high. In order to get close to the ceiling you would basically need to be in a very solid four-man SWF with insane teamwork and detailed callouts for every location on the map and every action a killer could perform. I just don't see any evidence that teams are doing that, which isn't surprising given that this game has no real competitive scene.

    I still disagree that you can shut down a Hag or Freddy of a comparable skill with OoO. If Freddy can be like a clown at loops against OoO, that's good for him! Clown can do well in the 1v1 without much need for mind games or deception, and Freddy has a whole lot in his kit to supplement that. For Hag, I just don't think it's feasible to call out trap locations precisely enough from like 50+m away for teammates to safely find and trigger them, and that's if there is a teammate close enough by to trigger the trap without wasting lots of time that wouldn't have already seen the Hag place it. I've played a decent amount of Hag as well, and I've never run into a squad that could manage to destroy my web faster than I could repair it while not taking free hits and while also doing gens.

    I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one.

  • AChaoticKiller
    AChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104
    edited October 2020

    i understand where your coming from but the issue is that there is just no in game skill involved its all up to how well you communicate along with your skill at the basics of the game. While your right its rare for the perk to be used to its best there are simply no in game factors that influence the perk other than getting a bad map which there are few of and can be prevented with offerings.

    its completely up to how you prepare to use it, you can run it with your friends or create a group of try hards in relatively little time then go into a match and destroy the killer. even if you not the best at using it you still gain a massive advantage from simply having good information available for your team.

    also i dont think the skill floor is that low, while its unplayable to solo's we are only looking at swf's because that is the problem with it. you don't really need teamwork just the OoO providing the information and again your right that its rare for a swf to coordinate super intensely but thats just them not utilizing the perk to its fullest. i believe the best this perk gets to a reasonable degree in terms of information provided to your team is calling out he killers plays in a chase which in would take practice between the team.