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The Legion | Giving the Legion some QoL changes + Almost complete add-on rework
Legion could use some buffs / QoL changes, so I have a few ideas on how to change them and their add-ons!
Feral Frenzy
Tracking
- While in Feral Frenzy you can see Scratch Marks and Blood Pools.
It doesn't give Legion any advantage to see Scratch Marks and Blood Pools while in Feral Frenzy, so why not just remove this restriction? Also with this change Feral Frenzy could actually be used for traveling around the map.
Terror Radius
- While in Feral Frenzy your Terror Radius no longer increases by 8 meters.
I'm not 100% sure if this is still true, but if it is then remove it, I would rather have more consistent Terror Radius then a really big one, thus maybe wasting my power.
Fatigue
- Reduced Fatigue duration to 3 seconds. (From 4 seconds)
It's painful, compared to other Killers with lethal powers the Legion does have the longest Fatigue, which doesn't make sense in my opinion.
- Removed Tunnel Vision while Fatigued.
BHVR introduced a QoL change that allows Legion to see Scratch Marks and Blood Pools while Fatigued, but what's the point if the Tunnel Vision is so intense that you can't see anything, reduce it significantly or just remove it.
Cooldown
- Recharges while Fatigued.
This makes the cooldown actually 20 seconds, not 24 seconds... ("23 seconds" in this buff)
Movement speed
- Increased Feral Frenzy speed to 134% or 5.36 m/s.
Currently Survivors can outran Legion by being slightly further from them, also the Legion travels much further by just walking then using their power, with this change the Legion should travel the same distance as if they just walked there.
Power Gauge
- Picking up or grabbing a Survivor from the Locker no longer depletes the entire power gauge.
- Missing an attack or hitting a Survivor with Deep Wounds ends Feral Frenzy, but no longer depletes the entire power gauge.
- Flashlight blinds end Feral Frenzy, but don't deplete the entire power gauge.
Just making the power gauge more consistent.
- Removed the penalty when hitting a Survivor while not in Feral Frenzy.
No reason to keep this penalty, it just doesn't make sense.
!!! OPTIONAL, Not sure about this one, NEEd feedback !!!
- Stunning the Legion while not in Feral Frenzy depletes the entire power gauge.
- Stunning the Legion while in Feral Frenzy depletes the entire power gauge. (This is already the case)
I want to introduce a new way to counter Feral Frenzy, and pallet stunning sounds like a good idea to me at least, since Feral Frenzy is easy first hit, just slightly more counterplay wouldn't hurt I would say.
Deep Wounds
- Reduced the bleed-out timer to 15 seconds. (From 30 seconds)
- The bleed-out timer is reduced to 10 seconds when hitting an Injured Survivor while in Feral Frenzy.
30 seconds is extremely long, and since the bleed-out timer does puase while running, I don't see a reason why not reduce it slightly, also I wanted Feral Frenzy to have some effect on injured Survivors, so their bleed-out timer is slightly shorter.
- Deep Wounds now has Skill Checks, these Skill Checks look like Doctor's Snap Out of It Skill Checks.
- Skill Checks have 12% chance every second to appear while mending.
- Missing any Skill Checks while Deep Wounded removes 2 seconds from the bleed-out timer.
- The action Snap Out of It now pauses the bleed-out timer.
I wanted Deep Wounds to be more interactive than just holding m1 for 12 seconds, so I added Skill Checks, and potentional lethality if you can't hit these giant Skill Checks at all.
Vaulting
Since Feral Frenzy is so easy to use, I wanted to add something slightly skillful to it, so now you can perform a medium vault while in Feral Frenzy if you don't have an angle and distance, similar to Survivors.
- Slow Vault: 1.7 seconds. (The default vaulting speed while not in Feral Frenzy)
- Medium Vault: 1.3 seconds. (Medium vault, almost tier III Myers speed)
- Fast Vault: 0.9 seconds. (The current fast vault)
When fast vaulting Legion now keeps the momentum, so they just don't stop after vaulting a window or a pallet.
- Fixed the Collision bug when vaulting a pallet or a window and while fatigued.
Survivors could go right through you, like if you were a ghost, that's why I always use bamboozle on Legion.
ADD-ONS
I'm not really the biggest fan of Legion's current add-ons, they are really boring and half of them are basically unusable, so I tried to make them unique, fun and viable at the same time.
Common Add-ons
Smiley Face Pin
- Hitting a Survivor Highlighted by Killer Instinct while in Feral Frenzy applies the Blindness status effect for 60 seconds.
I really like that you need to chain hits to get value from these pin add-ons, so they will probably all stay the same.
Scratched Ruler
- Slightly decreases the time required to refill the power gauge. (-2 seconds)
Since I'm changing how the cooldown recovery works this and the Etched Ruler become a really decent add-ons in my opinion!
Joey's Mix Tape
- Vaulting over windows and pallets while in Feral Frenzy is silent.
- Slightly increases Feral Frenzy vaulting speed. (10% faster vaulting)
I made this add-on to make Legion a bit more stealthy, you could use it at tiles like shack to mindgame the Survivors, also I always wanted an add-on that increases Feral Frenzy vault speed. (I know that Bamboozle and Fire Up exist, but I wanted to be even faster!)
Also if you're asking why did I changed the rarity of Joey's Mix Tape, I wanted every Mix Tape add-on to be one in each rarity with every one of them having unique effects!
Friendship Bracelet
- Get 100% more Bloodpoints for Deep Cut score events.
- Survivors mend more easily. (Mending now takes 8 seconds from 12 seconds)
Eventually every Killer will get this awful Bloodpoints increasing add-on...
Uncommon Add-ons
Cold Dirt
- Moderately increases Fatigue movement speed. (25% increase)
With the decreased Fatigue duration and removal of Fatigue add-ons, this and Never-Sleep Pills add-ons helps you to catch up to Survivors slightly faster, without being too overpowered.
Mischief List
- Slightly increases Feral Frenzy duration. (+1 second)
The duration add-ons are still the best add-ons in the Legion's kit, so I moved them all up a rarity.
Suzie's Mix Tape
- Moderately increases Feral Frenzy movement speed for each chained hit. (4% increase)
I really have no idea why Legion is the only Killer that can move faster than the base movement speed without having any movement speed add-ons, so I added one, rewards for chaining hits!
Etched Ruler
- Moderately decreases the time required to refill the power gauge. (-4 seconds)
Slightly buffed this one, from 3.5 seconds to 4 seconds, to make it better!
Defaced Smiley Pin
- Hitting a Survivor Highlighted by Killer Instinct while in Feral Frenzy applies the Mangled status effect for 60 seconds.
Rare Add-ons
The Legion Pin
- Hitting a Survivor Highlighted by Killer Instinct while in Feral Frenzy applies the Broken status effect for 60 seconds.
Julie's Mix Tape
- Considerably increases your Terror Radius while in Feral Frenzy. (+8 meters)
- Considerably decreases your Terror Radius while not in Feral Frenzy. (-8 meters)
This add-on replaces all the useless detection range add-ons, making you more stealthy while not in Feral Frenzy and increasing your Terror Radius while in Feral Frenzy.
Mural Sketch
- Moderately increases Feral Frenzy duration. (+1.5 second)
Nasty Blade
- Moderately increases Skill Checks trigger odds while mending. (+2%)
- Slightly increases the penalty for missing Deep Wounds Skill Checks. (+1 second)
I know that probably most people will be angry about this change, but it's really not that fun to hold m1 for long periods of time, so they increase the Skill Check chance and the penalty for missing one!
Never-Sleep Pills
- Considerably increases Fatigue movement speed. (50% increase)
Just to be clear, the wiki says that the Fatigue movement speed is 2.07 m/s, so this increases it to around 3.1 m/s.
Very Rare Add-ons
Stab Wounds Study
- While mending Survivors suffer from the Oblivious status effect.
Makes mending more intense, you never know when the Legion just comes back to down you without you even knowing that they came back.
Frank's Mix Tape
- Feral Frenzy no longer ends when missing a hit, but you still suffer the default missed attack cooldown. (between 1.5 or 2 seconds, I'm not really sure on this one)
Now when you accidentally miss you will not just yell at your hands, also this would probably help a lot console players.
Filthy Blade
- Considerably increases Skill Checks trigger odds while mending. (+6%)
- Moderately increases the penalty for missing Deep Wounds Skill Checks. (+2 seconds)
Stolen Sketch Book
- Considerably increases Feral Frenzy duration. (+2 second)
On some maps the Legion can just stab you over and over when the 2 duration add-ons were combined, so I slightly nerfed this add-on. (Also it bugged me that the add-ons went from 1, 1.5 and then to 2.5)
Ultra Rare Add-ons
Iridescent Button
- While in Feral Frenzy your Terror Radius affects the entire map and any pallets you vault are immediately broken.
Fuming Mix Tape
- While in Feral Frenzy, the repair progress of generators can be determined by the intensity of their auras.
I hope you like these changes!
Comments
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All these changes seem amazing, I can tell you put a lot of thought and effort into this. Well done <3
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Thank you very much!
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I really like all of these suggestions!
Hey @Almo, what do you think?
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Boi, I really like this! :D
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Honestly, all I want is to not have to recharge FF from the very start upon a missed attack. It's not that hard to juke a Legion player, and having your special meter deplete completely on an attack that isn't fatal is rather pointless.
But I digress, nice rework!
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I also think it should be made consistent with cancelling his power and how Oni cancels his power.
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Wow I love the idea of all of these changes, Legion would be one of my favourite killers if not for all of the negative feedback his cooldowns and fatigues give him, I really hope the devs see this as I would love to see legion get some much needed QOL. Well Done!
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I think that makes perfect sense. Trying to land a hit with a console joystick on a survivor that is using a mouse can be very difficult, and subsequently losing the whole FF can feel incredibly punishing.
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I love all the changes you propose, props to you!
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There are some things i'd argue with.
1) The reason Legion's TR increases by 8m is because while in Frenzy, Legion's TR becomes a detection tool—anyone in your TR is highlighted by Killer Instinct. I think this is fine and can stay.
2) I think Stab Wounds Study making survivors Oblivious isn't all that great. I'd recommend just having it so Legion can determine the DW timer like he could before.
3) I think fuming mixtape could use a few changes since you can't just liberally enter Frenzy to monitor gens.
But that said, good changes over all honestly.
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Honestly I’d say just give legion’s old missing a hit thing, maybe have it sligtly decrease the amount of feral frenzy left but It’s extremely easy to juke a legion who’s playing with a controller which makes them incredibly hard to use sometimes
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Hey! The changes are really good! But there are some things, that could be changed for better in my opinion :)
STUNNING:
- Stunning the Legion while not in Feral Frenzy depletes half of the power gauge.
I think that would make it more healthy.
Addons
Stab Wounds Study:
I think, that making mending survivors oblivious wouldn't be that great. But what do you think about:
- Deep Wounded Survivor's are Oblivious until mended
OR
- The Legion gains Undetectable Status Effect while in Feral Frenzy
- Increases Killer Instinct Detection range by 32 meters.
Frank's Mixtape
I would like to see addon like this:
- Allows The Legion to activate Feral Frenzy, when the power gauge is charged above 25%
It would help, when you miss an attack and when you want to run around the map with Feral Frenzy.
Stolen Sketch Book.
I don't think that it needs a nerf especially when you are increasing it's rarity. I would change it back to 2.5 seconds.
Fuming Mixtape:
I think that the current effect isn't good on The Legion since he can be in his power only for 10 seconds, and than wait pretty big amount of time waiting for it to build up.
My idea is:
- For each hit in single Feral Frenzy your fatigue decreases by 0.25 seconds
I think, that the rest of the changes are pretty good!
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Thank you for the feedback!
Removing half of the power gauge sounds like a better idea, thanks!
With Stab Wounds Study I wanted to go along with the name of the add-on, the pain you inflict is so intense it causes Survivors to be oblivious to their surroundings, maybe the first idea would be better and more useful! But I like your other idea aswell, but I would say that it doesn't fit that well with the Stab Wounds Study theme.
I wanted Frank's Mix Tape to allow you to miss, thus helping console players a lot, also I wanted to go with the theme of the description.
I don't see a point in giving you the ability to activate your power at 25%, since you cannot do anything to deep wounded Survivors, why would you want your power that fast?
About Stolen Sketch Book, since I made Legion slightly faster, you still get almost the same amount of distance, even with this nerf, it's around ~65 meters if my math isn't that bad.
I like the Fuming Mix Tape idea, but not sure if it would be balanced, does it have a cap?
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Talking about Fuming Mix Tape. We could cap it, that you can't get lower than 2 seconds of fatigue.
Frank's Mixtape would allow you to run around the map with Frenzy, and when you miss you can start your Frenzy almost right after the fatiuge. You run around the map with Frenzy to cover the distance. then you see a survivor. You can't catch up to him. Right after your power is able to be started and you get the hit.
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Sounds fun, not sure how balance it would be, we would need to see in game.
That's actually a really good add-on idea when I think about it!
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Normally in these rework posts there are multiple things wrong, but everything here looks amazing.
Would love if this version of Legion was in the game.
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Pretty good, but I do have a slight change that I think would be fun for a fuming mixtape rework
Considerably decreases the deep would timer for each survivor chained with feral frenzy (33% for survivor chained 4th UNIQUE survivor hit will go down)
If you down a survivor this way drain the powerbar and end frenzy
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That could be good, since getting 4 chained hits is very hard if Survivors have a brain.
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I actually really like these changes! However, I still have one huge concern: beating Legion in chase.
There's two parts to this issue:
- Legion can still deny any effort to thwart him in a chase. He can just pop Frenzy whenever he wants and there's practically nothing the Survivor can do about it except to take the hit or try to spin them out. If you take the hit, the Legion will just run away while you mend, ending the chase. If you make them miss, twenty seconds later they'll just hit you anyway. There's no chasing interaction and the fear of getting hit is just absent.
- Legion has no chasing ability against injured Survivors. All they have is their wits and basic attacks. Against good Survivors (who typically run Dead Hard or the vault speed built), catching them can be a nightmare. The Legion may just resort to keeping everyone injured and both sides hit a stalemate where neither contender wills to commit to their objectives.
It's the Legion's almighty paradox. Something that needs to be addressed. However, as of writing this reply, I realize that these are just QoL changes. But if you ever come up with a fully-fleshed rework, this is something to consider.
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When changing Feral Frenzy you need to be very careful, it can become uncounterable and oppressive or not useful at all.
You would probably need to rework Legion, in order to make them balanced.
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Believe me, I know. I’ve tried twice and failed both times. I genuinely think if BHVR plans on reworking Legion, they should either use repeated experiments via PTBs or completely change their power.
People seem to like the idea of “locker teleport.”
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I'm not really a big fan of the locker teleport thing. I think we already have too many Killers that can teleport, having another one would be a bit disappointing.
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Edit: Ignore this post... It was the result of me misreading part of the suggestion.
Ok so... I'm not entirely sure how I feel about your rework as a whole. I do however know you made one incredibly large and fatal mistake.
You have made it so Legion can down a Survivor by Frenzy stabbing them only twice after they're in deep wound with only 1 instance of cool down and recharge.
I'm guessing that means that you don't know why Old Legion got a rework in the first place. Here's the thing about Frenzy. It doubles the speed difference between you and Survivors, it allows you to vault windows and pallets, and it gives you a hit cooldown of practically 0 while not making Legion any more difficult to drive unlike some other killers (*waves at Blight and Billy*). This means that the Survivor you go after is pretty much going to get stabbed and they can't do much about it. For Current Legion, this is fine because it is practically impossible to down someone using Frenzy. Doing so with the current Franks Mix Tape, Stab Wounds Study, and 30s mend timer would take... I think 4-5 stabs with each one inflicting 4s cd and a 20s recharge, if you go for that you'll get like 1, maybe 2 downs that way before you've lost every generator. So... current Legion doesn't down with multi stabbing and deep wounds. They do normal M1 chases for their downs. Old Legion didn't work that way. Old Legion had a load out where they could Frenzy stab a survivor over and over and they'd go down. It wasn't a super fast down, but it was faster than what current Legion could do and was nearly impossible to stop.
You've brought that back. Essentially your changes to Deep Wound will give Legion a nearly uncounterable down every ~26s.
It'll play out something like this. Legion pops Frenzy and begins chase. Survivor gets stabbed after ~4 seconds, they're now injured and deep wounded. Legion keeps chasing and stabs them again after another ~4 seconds and they have 5 seconds of deep wound left. Legion goes into cool down and loses their power. Now this Legion is running both rulers so Frenzy comes back in 14s, in the mean time the Legion is continuing to follow the Survivor. Pop Frenzy again, and land another stab after ~4 seconds. Add all that up and you have a Survivor getting run down by a 134%, can vault stuff killer and dying with little recourse in 26 seconds. If you thought the outrage over PH or Slinger was loud... well... this would eclipse that.
Post edited by FFirebrandd on0 -
Legion wouldn't be able to down survivors in Feral Frenzy because he changed Frank's Mix Tape.
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I changed Frank's Mix Tape and SWS, also it's impossible to reduce the Deep Wound timer by stabbing a Survivor with this rework, the only thing I did is when you stab an injured Survivor with Feral Frenzy their timer starts at 10 seconds instead of 15 seconds.
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Yeah... After BattleCast posted, I realized that I misread the second point under the Deep Wounds section. Sorry about that.
You have no idea how many reworks put that in Legion's base kit.
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Legion is one of my favorite Killers and love using them, probably my favorite post regarding a rework and with so much effort too, definitely appreciated, "Now when you accidentally miss you will not just yell at your hands, also this would probably help a lot console players." That made me laugh cause it's so true😂
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