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Head On, Decisive Strike, and Dead Hard all share the same problem
The problem is that all three can be easily abused for other uses beyond the intended use.
When Decisive Strike is active, you cannot be picked up. So you can do a gen, a totem, or just if you want to be really safe into a locker, and the killer can't do anything to you.
Head On has a similar problem. Head On's hitbox for the stun just makes no sense, and makes it very hard to grab the survivor hiding in the locker. This means that if you can get a locker before the killer gets to you, you can get a free stun even if the killer knows exactly where you are. This is stupid, as the perk is best used as a way to help your teammates mid-chase, rather than a get out of jail free card.
Dead Hard lets become invincible for a short period of time along with moving you forward. Now, this is all fine and dandy until you realized that it lets you step up trapper's traps, among other things. Because having a single perk completely counter a killer's power is totally a good idea.
These are the perks that I can think off the top of my head have this issue, but I would love to see if we can find more examples, especially some killer ones.
Comments
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Head On is balanced simply because its an exhaustion perk. It’s definitely useful and a super high tier meme, but when its competing for a slot with Dead Hard, Lithe and Sprint Burst its hard to justify
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You're comparing Decisive Strike...to Head On?
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Woahh lmfao this is the typical bs posts on the forum. Dead hard can is able to “step up trappers traps”. ONE trap. Therefore his power is useless?!?! Lol what. It’s one trap, and it’s not like it happens 24/7.
but anyway, for head on, you say “this means if you can get to a locker before a killer gets to you, you can get off a free stun” but if you’ve actually used head on you would realize it’s not that easy. It takes 3 seconds, I believe, for the perk to actually activate. That means you would’ve had to have been about 4 seconds ahead of the killer, if you just stood still and stopped running. And if you’re thattt far ahead of a killer, I’m sure you could’ve found a pallet or a window to loop or lose him at. And even if you do wasted your time going into a locker when you head at least a 4 second lead in a chase, head on isn’t even overpowered. It feels like it barely even stuns the killer. The killer can easily catch up to you right after. There’s a reason why head on isn’t used often.
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DS is fine just. dont. tunnel. however it is a problem when combined with unbreakable because there is no way for the killer to benefit.
Head on is also fine, it makes it safer to hide in lockers and can be combined with other perks for a certain play style.
Dead Hard is probably the best exhaustion perk however it can still be baited out and without a pallet or vault to get to when your about to be hit it does nothing. I would say this perk is the closest one to being OP while still being balanced, it's just good.
also they all are being used as intended even DS, the survivor went into a locker? shouldn't have gone after them.
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you know... you can just... back up to not get head on’d?
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I had to deal with a person on comms at killer shack run to a house across the street just to head on me, too bad they werent a full swf or I probably would have lost.
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I usually find the problem with Head On to be the opposite of what you described, sometimes the hitbox just doesn't register for me and I get grabbed (and yes I always check if the perk is lit up and ready).
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I regularly get hit by DS when I've hooked 1 or 2 survivors since that survivor was last hooked. It's not an anti tunnel perk. Its an anti momentum perk. It punishes killers for playing too well.
It should just not tick down if active and being chased but deactivate if healed or gens are touched.
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The DS "abuse" has ended for the most part... Or learn Pig then come back (cause her power "counters" DS in a way not many killers can)... I don't see players doing whatever to force DS (I also don't go for someone I've hooked before... but sometimes it can be hard)
Head On has been a meme perk a few months after The Plague launched... also it's kinda hard to "abuse" Head On (IMO)
DH kinda needs to be used to get that last lil' bit of distance to a pallet or window... cause lag among other things
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then slug them if you know they have been unhooked recently
if you can't keep track of things like that your not a good killer bud
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Next time I get a 4 man SWF with all identical KAte densons with meta perks I'll call you in bub.
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I don't think Dead Hard is as powerful as you described it, since it only works once every 40 seconds and doesn't work against traps behind windows or dropped pallets. It might be a problem if a teammate was running Vigil, but no one ever runs Vigil.
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Yeah, I truly doubt you go against survivors who use the same characters all the time but I do get your point.
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DS is quite easy to avoid honestly, it's only strong in endgame or if combined with Unbreakable.
Head On is top tier meme perk but it's complete trash factually speaking.
Dead Hard is WAY to easy to bait to really be considered strong honestly. And let's not forget those times the game just leaves exhausted on he floor by trying to use it.
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OP is wrong. He isn't a good gamer and needs to learn how to become gaming. OP can find out gaming by going to Source Engine.
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I can agree with your take on hand on and DH but DS is not fine. The guy with DS can do a gen in the face of the killer without a care in the world because if he get grab he will DS if he is slug he will just UB and continue the gen. When the gate are open its a free escape. The killer can down and hook 1 or 2 survivor and when the third survivor get down he can still have DS. So no DS is not fine because its not an anti tunneling perk but more of a 1 minute invincibility after each hook perk and just having 1 person in the lobby with DS the killer need to play around 4 DS.
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Totally off topic... But what is this? Is this like, advertisement spam?
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Head-on sometimes does not work before the killer grabs you out if the locker and is easy to bait out.
Dead Hard hardly works and is hugely complained about because people get hit through it constantly. It really needs to be fixed. You can also bait it out quite easily.
All I get from this is you're being a bit whiny, DS is the only one that can really be complained about, the other 2 are both exhaustion perks that can be baited out easily and don't work consistently.
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Yea but let not talk about this because then people come and say oh it normal and it because killers tunnel which they don't understand why we do it.
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I was thinking Barbecue and Chili, Hex:Undying, and Hex:Devour Hope all shared the same problem
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Yes it is not fine with UB i said that however there is counter play to the perk which is slugging or waiting for the timer to end before going after that person(not including UB because its well known to be a busted combo). As for the situation of a DS user getting out by gates that is your fault for not hooking them far enough and hitting and downing whoever saved them, there are times where 3 survivors are at the hook and are body blocking but that is also partially your fault for having that many uninjured survivors alive at the end to do that.
also this is the only perk that stops killers from hooking a survivor right away, that is technically a minute of invincibility. No matter what we do to the perk as long as it works like that it is true and that's fine if you would just not tunnel. Is there situations where a DS user will escape because they simply have the perk yes, that's why you go for others instead of prioritizing them.
its honestly not hard to avoid DS or make them waste it early in the game, i do it literally all the time. Get good and while sometimes you will get a team that gen rushes and makes winning impossible that's just how this game is. IF you want to use the argument that taking a DS stun waste so much time that it costs you the game that's the games fault for not addressing early gen pressure which is currently the main problem with gens getting done too fast and why it's easy for coordinated teams using meta to win.
DS is fine, if any nerf should happen to it simply deactivating it when someone gets on a gen is enough to balance it but all its other mechanics are balanced because it does what its meant to which is punishing the killer for going after you after you have been unhooked for a short duration.
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No i'm just good enough to not need to tunnel and know when taking a DS stun is appropriate so i don't deal with it later.
The only thing people should be complaining about DS is its combination with unbreakable and just going to a gen. it is the ONLY perk that prevents the killer from rehooking you right away and i guarantee you that if another DS style perk was introduced baby killers would complain about it.
edit: for baby killers im simply referring to all other killer mains who act like this perk is the bain of their existence. good killers dont need to tunnel, a simple slug as you pass by them is all it takes to apply more pressure and if they have UB great you were ignoring them anyway and now the perk is used and at worst another survivor had to go to them to pick them up to save UB.
Post edited by Mandy on0 -
You sound like a rank 10 killer tops. No offence but you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Complaining about head on? Lmao I can't.
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It better to take DS earlier so you don't need to worry about it later especially in the end game for the killers but survivors should use it on second hook especially if the endgame is active and ds is not fine like that way of jump in the locker with DS and attract the killer attention to you on purpose just to eat the ds is not fine it just pissing the killer off that make them tunnel you so don't blame the killer for doing that.
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None of these are actually issues though.
DS can be avoided by simply downing someone. They can't do anything while they're down and you don't have to pick them up. It has a 60 second activation frame at max level so leave them downed for a minute or don't sweat the small stuff.
Head On! doesn't have an intended use, it's use is to stun the killer, it doesn't matter why you stun them. You can use pallet stuns during chases or to make the killer drop someone, Head On! is essentially just pallet dropping with a locker instead. They either have to come out at some point or you can go after someone else.
Dead Hard is annoying against trapper but it's really only effective against trapper, if you're having trouble catching people, it's more of a problem with where you're setting your traps rather than the perk itself. Down pallets and windows can't be dead-harded over and being an exhaustion perk it's not like they can dead-hard past the shack window, come around and do it again.
Annoying as they may be sometimes, the only one that sounds like it can be abused is DS and that's an easy counter.
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I agree with this, having a healthy survivor go into a locker and stun you is such bs, and have it deactivate during the endgame as well. I've had times where I down 2 survivors at the end gate and both ds me and get away and it's such bs.
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Trapp Daddy main here, and I gonna say about DH countering bear traps:
If you put yourself in a position where a survivor can dead hard through a bear trap and you cannot easily force them back towards it then you made a mistake (example is killer shack if you trapped every entrance). Now I'm not trying to say I'm a top top .01% tier trapper player, but you pick things up like this and if your in that prior mentioned position you aren't using your power to its full capacity. And besides, if bear traps were a hard counter to DH that'd be annoying for the other side. All DH is supposed to be is a slight burst of time. If used on a pallet then it's obviously more than slight... But generally if you, as the killer, aren't prepared for it then you made a mistake.
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I mean I feel like Head On! has a higher trigger rate lmao. It's a curse we must now bare, they're gonna give survivors stun guns next
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This topic is as silly as survivors saying I don't want to get hooked because it's killing!!
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Headon: You can grab people out of the closet and you can also bait them pretty easy. Seems like you need more practice with that, do you?
Dead Hard: I agree that this perk is kinda problematic but it wouldnt if the devs would balance other things but I dont wanna go into too much details now.
DS: Did you ever run Decisive as survivor? I dont so huh? That's the problem of playing only one side. DS in its current state fixed tunneling for a solid bit. Killer tend to tunnel very strictly when they don't see an obsession. The obsession icon scares killer to spread the damage. And as survivor it really doesn't feel that long. Idk how often I felt like the timer was too short. And getting tunneled hard doesn't feel very awesome.
I know there are people abusing the timer but you have to ignore them. If they let you down them do it, use them as map pressure by slugging. Same with people running OoO. Just ignore them. Those kind of players wants you attention and they always will find a way to make that clear.
But enough about survivor perks. How about killer perks? Undying? Ruin? Noed? Tinkerer on some killer? ForeverFreddy? MAss8ive slwodown builds? isn't that annoying too? Oh I know a very silly perk: Franklins Demise, or better: Rancor. Not very fun perks too.
But the most annoying thing are teammates. Wished when I was the killer that I also would get the teams I always have. Would be great wouldnt it?
I can recommend you to play the other side too. Kinda the same amount. If you only play one side you get trapped in this "the other side is op and unfair" thing and don't get me wrong, you're on sth. But there is always an other point of view and it's important to know the issues on both sides.
Otherwise it becomes impossible to discuss with someone who only knows this one gameplay, only carring for himself. That's not a good base for a discussion.
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These perks all have counters, slug the ds user, you didn’t mention unbreakable so I’ll avoid it, wait for the dead hard and swing right after it’s use, or just swing anyways cause dead hard usually doesn't even work properly unless if you do it a bit early although it is nice for trappers traps, but then again he can just keep looping the trapped area as now the survivors exhausted, and they can’t do that again. Head on well it’s not that game changing to say the least.. This just sounds like you complaining about meta perks as most killers seem to do while they themselves run pop, ruin, noed, etc I mean is it really that bad? Not IMO. If you’re curious I’m a rank 5 survivor and 7 killer.
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Yeah, they're all useless perks. :)
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What he's saying is that in the event Trapper has managed to corral you into a corridor where there's a trap at the end (a difficult scenario that takes setup but is rewarding for the killer and leaves the survivor feeling outplayed, rather than cheated), Dead Hard allows you to simply rush through (and then leaves the killer to step on his own trap, adding insult to injury).
I'm not with him on Head On being overpowered, but he's right that these perk all share common elements that make them problematic: they're sprung on the killer in a frustrating way to serve as a get-out-of-jail-free card, and once the killer knows (or suspects) you have them his choices become limited.
I don't think any killer anywhere has ever had one of these perks used against them and experienced any reaction other than irritation and frustration. They feel unbalanced and bad to play against, and the fact that they're so, so common and abused in many ways beyond what was originally envisioned adds to the problem.
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I think people including myself have a problem with Head-On simply because of the ridiculous stun box. You can try to bait it out like pallet drops, but more than likely you'll just get stunned anyway.
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You talk about an all Kate swf and then you say you regularly get hit with DS after hooking 1 or 2 people?
You must be the most unlucky killer EVER. Getting a meme swf that use the same skins is very rare, so I'm not sure how it's a "regular" thing for you.
My guess is that you're more likely tunneling regularly and that's why you're getting hit with DS so much.
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An overzealous SWF that immediatley runs in with borrowtime or borrowed time immunity can often mess you up just due to the sheer chaos of it. I remember having a survivor slugged, one on the hook and one on my shoulder and all it took was 1 DS from someone I don't even remember hooking into borrowed time for all 3 to be up and free. And then a dead hard lost me a vital chase and the game. I don't get tilted much at this game much anymore. But boy did I feel like I got unfairly shafted that game.
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Facts! I don't use DH too often, so my sample size is small. But in 4 years of playing this game I've vaulted a trap twice. Both times at the killer shack against a camping trapper that was relying more on his traps than he was on his chase skills.
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Believe it or not, most people that run in with borrowed right away are not a swf. They are most likely farming others for points. Out of experience I have seen games like that go wrong a LOT more often. I get that if it works against the killer it can be deflating, but I've lost a lot more games when people run in for an unhook blindly.
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If it stop activating at end game the complaining killers would just camp and tunnel the person off hook
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Pretty hard not to tunnel when rat ass survivors like to force DS. I agree with the post, you shouldn't be invulnerable to another hooking because you happen to spend $5 and pump blood points into Laurie.
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IMO I don't get the hate for Dead Hard, it's not like a baby crutch cuz it can be hard to use effectively.
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I agree with DS being a little too good, mainly because it lasts too long so it's not really a anti-tunnel perk anymore it has became something else, however I actually have no problem with Dead Hard or Head On, Dead Hard can be baited out by just breathing down the survivor's neck for a second and Head On feels kinda situational for the most part because of how long u have to stay in a locker before hand, Now to bring up a perk on killers side, I'd have to say I hate going against NOED tho I don't really c it as being OP because it does have pretty easy counterplay, I just find it annoying to play against.
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that's what perks do, deal with it and dont tunnel. Like it's doing what it's supposed to do which is halt momentum if the killer tries to cut corners and kill someone early. If you want to complain provide a better solution that still does what current DS does and before you comment no lockers are fine get good.
if a survivor is trying to force it it is very easy to just ignore them. Don't act like they can't be caught off guard or they always have some way to avoid you punishing them, even with unbreakable if you downed them say 40 seconds after they got unhooked waiting 20 or so seconds isn't hard and no im not saying that DS+UB is fine just DS by itself.
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As a killer main let me just say these perks really aren't as bad/good as everyone thinks (depending on if you player killer/survivor). An easy way to counter DS is to down them and just leave them and chase someone else. Or just pick them up take the couple second stun and keep chasing then they can't use it the rest of the game. It's really not hard to counter. What I do is if someone is unhooked I always go for the person that did the unhooking action, if not then I just down the unhooked person and leave them. It adds pressure because if they don't have unbreakable that means one other teammate has to heal them and if you are chasing another person that means only one person is possibly doing gens.
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U can just hit them and slug idk what u mean in the face if the killer I just hit em and kick the gen
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U can just hit them and slug idk what u mean in the face if the killer I just hit em and kick the gen
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That's why there's perks like BT and why you can bodyblock, and if neither are good enough for you, make it so that after getting off a hook during endgame, you get a sprint burst effect but causes exhaustion
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So, you're saying that it's 100% okay to be an invincible distraction for 60 seconds and then hop in a locker when you know your #########? Perks are suppose to make the game feel flexible and tailor the game the way you like to play, not end up being band-aids and crutches to poor mechanics. DS is good when it's used in your far-fetched utopian way you explained, but most people abuse that you can either force DS or UB.
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