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New Mechanic: Generator Overheat
I proposed something of a similar name a while ago. This is meant to address the same issue (high rank gen rush) but it is a different concept.
Basically, as you work on a gen it begins to overheat. The faster you do the gen, the faster it overheats. This means toolboxes, perks, or teamwork can make a gen overheat faster than normal. If, however, you were to just work on a gen solo with no speed buffs, you can do the entire thing and only enter the first overheat stages when it is near completion (~10s). In order for overheat to go away completely, survivors have to not work on a gen for a short period of time (something like 30s at max overheat). However this duration is not exactly required, as you won't be stopped from working on the gen at max overheat.
Survivors and killers can tell how much a gen is overheat by the amount of smoke coming off the generator. The more overheated the gen is, the more smoke it produces until it gets to max overheat.
When a generator is overheating a few things happen based on the amount of overheat:
- Skill checks become more frequent and difficult.
- Regression penalties increase. This includes when a killer kicks an overheating gen, it will regress faster than normal during the period it is overheating.
- The generator makes more noise and the overhead lights flicker more brightly.
When a generator is at max overheat the following happens:
- The generator catches fire (effect similar to trash can fire).
- The generator may produce a failed skill check sound/effect during a good skill check, however the skill check will still register as successful.
- If the killer kicks the generator during this time, the Entity will block it for 10s. However, doing this will regress the overheat by 50%.
EDIT: When a generator is completed, the overheat progress is split and applied to all remaining generators.
This would make gen rush more difficult, but wouldn't stop survivors having to work on a gen (unless killer kicks it while it is at max overheat), and killers have a bit more control over generators especially later in the game when gen rush is more likely to happen.
Comments
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Usually, genrush starts by all survivors working on several gens. While one surv is being chased, the other 3 survs would work on their gens without severe overheating penalty.
When the scenario "first hook, 3 gens done" happens, it's Game Over for the killer in most cases.
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I disagree with this. This isn't a "gen rush" it's just a situation where 3 survivors can just do gens no contest. They aren't rushing to finish the gens really. They are doing them at a normal pace under no threat.
The real issue comes when you have 1-2 gens left and survivors gang up on gens with toolboxes and perks to just plow through the gen in 30s. It's crazy that you can do a gen that fast, and ultimately that's the point where most killers win or lose.
Plus you are caught in a situation where you have to babysit a gen because there are 3 survivors hovering around it. If you kick it, they just tap it. If you take a chase, they just double team it and finish it anyway. So if doing that became more difficult the more they messed with the gen, then killer has more chance to gain momentum and win.
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I think this is awesome, it adds more depth to the game. Whether this helps against Genrush or not I would still enjoy this because it adds more to repairing Gens which is quite boring. Everyone knows that the real excitement is from hiding or fleeing from the Killer and Gens is just this waiting game where you hold a button. This would add more depth, a risk system of trying too hard, take it slow etc and it gives us a reason to go slow.
When the Devs said they'd add more things for Survivors to do I still don't know what they meant. I thought they would ADD MORE THINGS TO DO, this Gen thing would mean that Gens could explode, maybe we can find Extinguishers ;)
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@thesuicidefox Genrush is when gens are done too fast for the killer to keep up. A good genrush is founded on survivors working at several gens at the beginning of the game.
As I wrote above, when the survs managed to have 3 gens done when the first person gets hooked, they have already rushed and pretty much won the game.
If the game focusses on defending the last gen, that means abandoned chases, very long matches in general, and at least for me personally not a great gameplay experience. (I'm thinking of the 3-Gen-Doc tactic.)
I'd prefer to give the killer more time for chases and hooks (= 2nd objective for survivors).
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"As I wrote above, when the survs managed to have 3 gens done when the first person gets hooked, they have already rushed and pretty much won the game."
No they didn't win the game. They only win when they do 5 gens and power the gates. If they have 1 gen left, then only 1 has a chance to escape through hatch.
Most of the time when a killer wins a game, it's with anything between 1 and 3 gens left. They win because they managed to stop survivors from rushing the last few gens. Since there are less gens and more survivors, they will want to gang up on gens and will finish them in less than 30s. Sitting doing a gen by yourself when the killer is occupied is NOT a gen rush. You do the gen in 80s on average. When multiple survivors gang up on gens late game, or when they use perks/toolboxes to do them fast, THAT is a gen rush. They are literally doing the gens faster.
Also, you can't stop survivors from doing a single gen, that's an unreasonable expectation. It should be expected that at least 1 gen is done in your first chase, if not then you are playing against potato survivors. The problem isn't there, because most of the time when survivors do a bunch of gens at the start they don't account for the gen position, leaving the last gens closer together. This makes it easier to protect them as killer, but now they will gang up on gens which makes protecting those last ones HARDER than protecting the first gens because they can be rushed.
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It looks like your suggestion is meant to prevent or hinder the "gen rush" but that situation is simply survivors being efficient at their only objective.
This mechanic punishes that efficacy and I don't think it's a good thing.
An additional objective might be needed, but maybe it should be unrelated to the generators.
I had a thought months ago and I wondered what if the gate switches spawned randomly on the map like the hatch does.
Think about how the endgame might change with that situation :)
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"This mechanic punishes that efficacy and I don't think it's a good thing."
Actually it doesn't punish anything. You aren't being punished for doing the objective faster, it merely becomes harder and harder to do as you do it faster. This means you can still do it, but it will only work if you are good at the game. It's adding more skill to a rather skill-less objective.
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@thesuicidefox When all survivors are still alive when there is only one gen left to be done, it IS pretty much Game Over for the killer. At this point, the survivors would have to make some severe mistakes to still lose.
The killer needs to have at the very least one kill when 4 gens are done, 2 kills would be better. Trying to defend one gen against a group of survivors isn't fun, neither for the killer nor for survivors. (Again, think of the 3-gen-Doc.) It usually results in 30-minute-matches or even worse. Also, good survivors will keep the positions of the gens in mind and not create a bad endgame scenario for themselves.
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I can see your point, but what I mean by punishment is that you're making things harder as they do well which is just a different PoV to how you think of it.
I can also see the value of forcing survivors to put more focus on the generators rather than looking around for the killer.
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Punishment implies that they are stopped or have some thing done to them for doing gens fast (eg. Exposed). This isn't that. You can still do gens it will just be harder to do them super fast near the end of the game. The situation can be avoided by pacing the gens, or taking time to do other things while the overheat regresses. Or, if you are a very good survivor, you can just plow through it.
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"When all survivors are still alive when there is only one gen left to be done, it IS pretty much Game Over for the killer. At this point, the survivors would have to make some severe mistakes to still lose."
Mistakes that become more common if their objective becomes more difficult to do.
And no, it's not game over until the last gen is done. You can still snowball in this situation, it's just that the odds are stacked against you. Therefore it only makes sense to have a mechanic that stacks odds in your favor to counter-act the negative odds.
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Bad idea. Particularly when the game is down to 2-3 and there is 1-2 gens left. Pretty much makes it improbable to finish off that last gen.
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While generators overheat they should also glow a bit red with the smoke.
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@thesuicidefox "Mistakes that become more common if their objective becomes more difficult to do."
But that's the issue. The killer still depends on the survivors making severe mistakes.
That's what bothers killers, that's why we are talking about adding a 2nd objective to the game: Currently, killers feel helpless because they will only win if the survivors make really big mistakes. A 2nd objective should change that and not follow the idea of "the killer can only win if the survivors play bad".
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It's certainly interesting. It does seem to also make it harder for Survivor's, and could prevent genrushing (slightly). However, the guy above me words it best. The Killer should not rely on Survivor's making severe mistakes. It's a somewhat nice idea, but there are too many factors that make it a bad idea to add to the game.
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Right but the problem is it is too easy to NOT make a mistake as survivor, particularly when it comes to doing gens. If you increase the chances survivors make mistakes then killers benefit without needing to change the core dynamics of the game. It has to be this way because if you make the game where survivors never make mistakes yet still die that is bad design. The burden of success is ultimately on the survivor not on the killer. Killers punish mistakes, and the better the killer the less room you have to make mistakes and the harder you get punished for your mistakes. If the game were designed so that perfect play from killers means no one ever escapes, that will kill the game.
Yea it kinda sucks for killers, but it needs to be this way for the game to be as dynamic as it is. And no survivor plays perfectly 100% of the time either. I could play perfect for 99% of a game, make 1 single mistake and die to even an average killer. Now imagine if it didn't matter how many mistakes I made, I just die anyway. That's dumb. You might not feel that way because you main killer, but it is seriously dumb. In order for killer to really lose you need to have 4 survivors play perfectly against you. That doesn't happen, so therefore you should still be killing survivors. It's not as big of a problem for them because their enemy has 4 times the chance to make a mistake. Even if you have 4 good survivors, if 1 makes a big mistake that can cost all of them their lives.
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oh yeah punish the survivors for doing their objective.
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The optimal genrush requires survivors to work on gens alone. So your suggestion is just promoting genrushing actually (besides at the end of a match eventually) and it makes toolboxes a useless item.
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It's not actually punishing them, just making it more difficult to RUSH their objective.
You could compare it to MOM or DS where it makes it more difficult for the killer to RUSH a kill by tunneling.
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No that's not gen rush. Gen rush is when you have multiple survivors with perks/toolboxes gang up on a gen to do it in 30s. Splitting up to do different gens is not rushing because you are doing the gens at the normal speed, albeit at the same time. The only time where THAT is an issue is at the start when there are 7 gens to protect. Killers can possible protect 7 gens. But they CAN protect 4 gens, which is where most killers win the game.
What you want is for survivors to just not do their objective until 4 minutes into the game. That is both unreasonable and game breaking. Survivors do gens, that's the thing killers need to accept. If they pop 3 in your first chase, it's not always a loss if you can hold the game at that point which a lot of good killers can do.
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@thesuicidefox I'm not saying that a killer should get a 4k if he plays perfectly and the survivors play also perfectly. It's also not realistic to say that any player will make no mistakes at all during a match. The problem lies within the severity of mistakes that have to be made in order to affect the outcome of the match.
At the moment, survivors have to make really severe mistakes in order to lose the match. A couple of small mistakes on the survivors' side are not enough for the killer to win.
Making it more difficult to get the last gen done will prolong the match, but in most of the cases it is not going to change the outcome of the match. Again, I have to bring up the example with the 3-Gen-Doc.
Skill should decide the outcome of the match. For survivors, this means evading the killer or keeping the killer busy in a chase. For killers, this means finding survivors and downing + hooking + killing them as fast as possible. Skill is not repairing a gen.
A 2nd objective should give the killer and survivors an adequate amount of time to test their strenghts and skills.
Btw, I'm a survivor main. I just want to have a fair and fun game for everyone.
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I love this! I think survivors would be a lot more tactical about generators.
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Why are you arguing with thesuicidefox, he is right, this new mechanic is good and is not so bad for survivors.
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and here we are, end 2020, oh how little changes
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Survivors working coop at gens is not genrush, its inefficient. Even if there is one or 2 generators remaining, its still better for survivors to keep splitting up, and work seperetely.
The core idea behind splitting up is not the speed of the generators, but the lack of snowball-potential the killer gets. Even an Infectious Fright Oni or T3 Myers cant snowball if all survivors are 40m+ metres away from each other.
This overheat mechanics will only force survivors to work EVEN MORE efficient on generators.
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Having additional things to take into consideration is always welcome. The gen-gate objective has held fast for a long time, and something is needed to spice the game up, both to provide more for survivors and also more for the killers.
The generator has some really good points! Additional skill-checks and the overheat mechanic adds some depth to the generator section. It makes survivors think of tactics more. Creates possibilities of distracting the killer more and entering into chases to keep them away from regressing gens. I like that it has a new flavour.
There would be some hurdles to consider: How would ruin work, for example. The old ruin would be fine, but the new one would be a real hinderance to the point it would be frustrating. Also, it still doesn't change the age-old formula of gen-gate.
Having this mechanic would be challenging, but I still feel one or two additional objectives are needed, both at the start of the game, and actually probably a mid-game objective:
The start could be something very simple. Maybe each gen has a rune within a certain radius that survivors need to interact with in order to free the gen from the Entity. The perk "Corrupt intervention" could delay the appearance of this rune.
The middle could come when there are just 2 gens left to do. Maybe the generators are blocked again, but rather than runes there could be a small mini-game in finding a medallion or something to plug into the remaining generators, and a puzzle needs to be solved to get them working again. Maybe the killer can trigger this by a mini-game themselves at any point after 1 generator is completed?
The End-game could do something very simple like a slow regression on exit gates, should people want to play the 99% rule, but once the gens are upandthe realm is full of light, it makes sense the Entity is weakened, so it's just a casenof escaping.
Sorry about the ramble.
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Brilliant!
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This cannot exist with the current meta lol.
This with tinkerer ruin undying discordance would be too strong, and either way its just annoying
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Better if a surv is genrushing the entity hook him in the basement. This way the only match you don”t 4k in the day will no destroy your statistics
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Skill checks are a buff for good survivors so already thats a bad idea. Even if they did nerf the bonus progression. Killers have more than enough regression perks right now. Maybe buff base regression from a kick with no perks but nah.
There's perks to block generators also.
Punishing survivors for doing their objective is stupid.
As others have said. This would require significant nerfs and reworks to all existing forms of stalling and progression. Not worth it.
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It's like you want the devs to continue being lazy lmao.
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I like this idea. I wouldn't apply the overheat mechanic to a gen being worked by a lone survivor. I'd only apply it to gens with multiple survivors working on the same gen. Also I wouldn't spread the overheat to other gens upon completion. Other than that, I do like this idea overall. Since the best killer regression perks are gone by the end game, this would help the killer.
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So what you are saying is, survivors are having to actually try now? instead of having a dent in their head and holding m1? Which is what both survivors/killers want? But you think that is bad?
My only suggestion change here is that, depending how fast the regression rate is, that 10 seconds of the entity blocking needs to change.
Remember, you said after a killer kicks the gen when the gen is in max overheat, that knocks off 50%.
If the regression is slow, then yeah, 10 seconds may be fine, even 12 or 15 seconds and its a trade of, survivors are off the gen, but, in trade, more regression is knocked off over time for them for when they get back on a gen.
If the regression is too fast or just fast, the 10 seconds is not a good trade off for helping knock off 50% of the overheat for the survivors and that 10 seconds will be useless like thrilling tremors.
The other factor, which sadly, I don't think you will be able to control or do anything about without making it unfair, is how common gens are gonna get max overheat in a single match, which will also dictate if that x amount of time the gen is blocked is a good trade off of knocking off 50% of that overheat bar, along with the regression rate.
Also, it would be best if you put in information of how fast the rate is per seconds by per survivor and how fast the regression is
ex. (using ticks) 2 tick rate per second of a survivor being on a gen, then 4, 6, etc
3 tick regression rate per second, then 6, 9, etc
something like that, it would help people when they see this to better visualize a scenario in their head and work out the math and give better feedback to this.
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oh wait.....this is an old ass discussion, wth? oh well, its still a good idea even now. lmao, who brought this back up?
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Me lol
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I'm fine with them being lazy when it comes to unnecessary changes. We already got breakable walls as a new mechanic. I'd rather not have something else like that.
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Then explain to me what important things are.
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Fixing maps and pallet spawns so a single survivor can't loop between them for several minutes without Bamboozle or a Meta killer. The main problem of DBD right now isn't perks or gen times. It's maps. Chases for all but the top 4-5 killers last too long. Especially the first chase. Without stacked slowdown perks or Spirit/Nurse the first 1 or 2 gens are usually done by 1 hook against a good team. And from there the killer has to play either perfectly or slug like crazy to stand a chance at getting more than 1 or 2 kills. Tiles ar simply linked too well on most maps.
Ontop of that look at Red Forest, half the junkyard maps and others. Either way too huge for any killer that isn't Spirit/Billy/Nurse to pressure well on or at all. Or like Midwich, where survivors can literally hold W because 15% move speed doesn't mean jack if you cn't cut the survivor off ahead.
Jungle gyms should not have long wall window spawns leading to shack window or another jungle gym.
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