I feel so bad for new killers
I know these issues are pretty much known to everyone but since starting to play on steam as well as ps4 you get a much better idea of what they're supposed to endure. Apart from a few matches where I've been matched with noobs I'm going against red and purple survivors with 1000s of hours, and full perk sets -which is fine with me, obviously a bit more engaging than killing beginners although ideally I'd have something a bit more to throw back at them apart from tier 1 spies and tier 1 bloodhound-
but how many new players drawn to the killer role are going to stick around if they're just going to be a punching bag match after match? I get that matchmaking is probably always going to be terrible, possibly even with MMR. But give new players something. A more advanced tutorial, a training area (everyone wants one and if you could try out new killers and perks there you'd probably increase sales), a warning or BP boost when their lobby is full of reds, a way to unlock some free perks from the shrine, idk but you should give them something.
Comments
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This issue is why a friend of mine quit 10 minutes after downloading the game. He downloaded it from the Xbox Gamepass so thankfully he didn't spend anything, but that's still not the point. I suggested Killer because it was more interactive and can be fun. He got a smurf squad SWF team, 1 Rank 16, the rest Rank 1. They even brought OoO for christ sake. Since he was new he didn't realise that they knew everything he did thanks to that single perk. And they knew it. They just taunted at him, flashlighted him constantly, and just overall BM. I don't even bother recommending this game to anyone anymore, hell, I deter them away from it. The fact that new players can be subject to toxic behaviour for peoples own amusement is very telling, especially when the devs allow this to happen.
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Yeah. The Smurfing is out of control. Since I already got my Rank-1 goal out of the way, I've been kind of playing with learning different Killers to let my Rank drop a bit, and then switch back to Myers to hunt the middle Ranks for Smurfing squads. It only takes a couple of minutes to figure out if you in such a match. If not, I play the game softer and generally let people escape. I'm not there for them. If there are Red mixed in with lessers (or Purple who are just Red who let their Rank slip) I do my best to slaughter them all. I find hunting Smurfers to be rather gratifying. They drove my gal out of the game in the say way as they did your friend. So she lets me use her account where the Killer is not near so potent a Rank so I can hunt for them there too. I've caught several Bully Squads this way and have some hilarious videos as they quickly realize it isn't a Rank-14 they are trying to torment.
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I don't. Everyone gets stomped learning a new PvP game that's been around a while, that's just how it is.
That's why I have never actually played Rainbow 6 Siege. Because by the time I looked at it and decided I might want to try it, I know by now I will just get smoked by people who know all the maps and I don't feel like investing the time to learn them.
And it's not like it's just killers. I sometimes get rank 15-20's tagging along as part of SWFs, or full lobbies of greens/purples when I am at rank 1.
There was a rank 15 Ash I had in my game the other day that didn't even know what to do when I jumped him as the pig, got 2 tapped, then he died to a double purple add-on head trap. I was thinking in-game "this Ash is really special" until I saw his rank at the endgame screen.
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Yeah both the sneaky change back so that bringing a low-rank friend gets you a low rank killer again (change or bug? It's not like they're especially transparent about this stuff) and allowing ranks 15-20 to end up in games with any ranks to make sure they can get in a match quickly (honestly I think I'd rather just wait longer) make the situation worse imo. I don't recommend to any friends interested that they try learning killer, the time to do that was years ago.
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Good on you. People who smurf or just overall bully deserve what they get honestly. Those same people need to realise, if not for people like us willing to tolerate their bullshit, they wouldn't even get a damn match. When the game does eventually start to run low on killers, they can thank themselves for it, for running the decent folk out of the game.
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Yeah I've had some of the 1/1/1/15+ squads too. I hope I was an unpleasant surprise for them.
I mean even when I started playing dbd it'd been out for a few years and I'd actually get matched with other people who had no idea what they were doing.
I also play r6s but I'm garbo
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Theres a huge difference in being destroyed LEARNING, and being destroyed when they have ZERO chance to even learn anything.
Smurf squads won't teach a new player anything. They'd never catch them, they'd just be bullied to hell and back and that just demoralizes them. Imagine how someone who just installed the game and gets absolutly bulldozed over because of this feels? Would you want to continue after that? I wouldn't. I accept theres always learning in PvP games. Hell, I suck at CoD but I'm learning to get better, and that's because I don't get smurf squads constantly ######### me over.
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Even if matchmaking didn't go crazy sometimes it wouldn't make any difference. Rank 20 killer matches are the same as red rank killer matches due to the high number of smurfing SWF squads.
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I really feel like there are NOT that many "smurf SWF squads" because if they were ruining people as hard as you claim they would be ranking up naturally and would need to go on massive depip sprees throwing equally as many games as they were winning as well. It's incredibly easy to rank up as a survivor.
Killer is the harder role, requires more practice, requires more mechanical skill, and requires more intelligent decision making than survivor. Naturally you are going to lose; and often, until you get an idea of what you are doing. Killer is still easier than it has ever been in the history of DBD right now(unless you were a nurse main). You didn't see seasoned killers all going on 100-200+ winstreaks at a time until recently.
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You realise that even if someone was to pip up, they could just create a new account and repeat the smurfing right? I could go do it on PS4 and Xbox in 10 seconds just by making a new email, and since my main profile owns the game, that new account gets free access to the game. I don't deny killer is tougher, but the fact is, when you see a blatant Rank 16 with all T3 perks usually including the Metas, alongside 3 red ranks with the same, it's not really difficult to work out whats happening. How many new players do you know that run metas or understand how the meta even works?
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I mean, dunno when the last time you were in rank 16+ but new killers have absolute control over new survivors. I had to restart when I started on PC and it was the dullest experience of my life as the survivors have no good perks. Don't know what looping is. And actively hide over doing gens.
And wow the SWF boogyman myth is spreading further. Now people are purchasing new copies of the game just to troll? Nan. Don't think so. Never saw it and that sounds absurd.
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If they had friends to explain it to them? I could probably explain the meta to a new survivor player in like 2 minutes. "Run these 3 perks and here's why"
When I was learning killer I got crushed as billy for like 4-5 games, then googled who was the best killer, and moved over to learn the nurse instead. I was on the Nurse within ~2 hours of playing, and had plans to level the hag for (old) ruin within the same day of buying DBD.
I can't imagine anyone sane would want to go grind out new accounts and all the perks over and over. You would have to pay for Laurie each time. And still, losing and running the loops is how you learn. You learn all the strong loops by having people run you at them.
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New killers do usually dominate new survivors yes, the point is a lot of the time, possibly most of the time new killers are going against experienced survivors.
As for smurfing buying another copy of a game on pc just to do it isn't unheard of at all. And on console it's quick and free to make a new account that'll still have all your dlc.
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Maybe it's a region thing but smurfing SWF teams are really nothing rare.
If I record 5 matches now using a new profile I guarantee you (especially during this time of the day) that I will find some smurfing teams instead of legit rank 20 survivors.
You know what. Give me an hour. I will play on a new profile and record some matches real quick.
BRB.
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The problem with your logic is that you can't matchmake with people above rank 15 iirc. And you its almost impossible to not pip as survivor in those matches. It wouldn't be worth the time to even bother doing that.
I've never seen or even heard of that in EU so maybe its an NA thing.
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Also to add. New killers have it significantly easier than older killers did at start. Significantly less pallets, smaller maps, nerfed god windows, more perks in earlier levels of the bloodweb. Easier shard gains meaning its easier to get more perks from the shrine aswell as rift challenges. Significantly nerfed borrowed time and exhaustion perks aswell. Even buffed general perks like Sloppy Butcher to give them some extra breathing room.
If they're still not having fun or having a hard time the game isn't for them so they shouldn't stick around and force themself to play.
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you can, ranks 15-20 specifically can be matched with any rank to make sure new players aren't put off by waiting for a game.
Also I'm from dear old London
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For christ I hope the (probably) improved MMR system would come sooner. Especially twitchers when they are playing with viewers they usually accept any ranks. And then when the rank 20 viewer comes, twitch viewers get to see as the low rank killer gets looped for 10 minutes and they all escape.
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and people wonder why they're so many killer threads complaining about the state of the game. A newbie facing a squad of 1000's should not happen but god forbid those people have to wait for a killer their rank. I'm sure someone is thinking "It takes 15 mins of que time at r1 for 4 survivors" Well it's only gonna get worse if the game keeps going in the direction it's heading because new people certainly aren't going to stick around. Eventually the vets will move on to something else.
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Update on the "rank 20 4-man smurf SWF myth/boogeyman":
Logged into my gf's profile that's on rank 20 to show you how "rare" the boogeyman is.
Took me literally 1 single match to find the "boogeyman":
4 man SWF (all of them quickswitched at the same time) with 1 key, 1 map, 2 flashlights, 1 map offering.
All of them ran meta-ish builds, looped, tbagged, bodyblocked the hook, took hits for each other.
Their ranks were 19, yellow and green. Can upload the post game screen as well if someone doubts it.
So yeah... Smurfing SWF teams are not rare at all.
New killers have to deal with exactly the same things as red rank killers making matchmaking as a whole pointless.
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Nah don't feel bad, We will suck until we eventually get better.
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I admire the attitude. GL with the killing :)
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That's another thing that piss's me off. People say "Oh that rarely happens" The fact that it happens AT ALL shows how broken the MMR is. The forums have suggested several times about letting us see if the survivors we just faced were in a swf "after" a match has ended. If we could see it before killers would just lobby dodge but after the match is over I see no harm. BHVR won't do that because it will give us a way to track how many times we actually run into SWF. We all know their data is very questionable.
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I sometimes play Killer poorly, because I get sick of having to sweat every game. So I take a game just to auto-pilot one chase till I get the first survivor I find hooked. Then auto-pilot on the next survivor I find. Sometimes I get 1 sac, sometimes I get none. Then it's back to the grind.
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Basically, I was going to setup a new goal for myself, try to get some new Killer (probably Trapper) to Rank-1. Then I saw all the Smurfing and it drove my gal out of the game as she was just getting started. Now my new goal is just to hunt the heck out of Smufing Squads to make their lives miserable. I highly suggest it to anyone. If you have been playing awhile, you can recognize the moves of a Red Rank (or Purple) survivor real fast. The trick is not to be a Smurf yourself. I am always very careful because it is NOT fair for me to be cruising innocent groups of Survivors who are not ready for the likes of me.
If they are little fish, I play them but with gloves on and make sure that some (if not all) get out. I don't farm, because I don't think they learn anything from that and it is boring. I just play to teach. The second I sniff out the Smurfers though, everyone dies.
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I can confirm... have had many matches as a new killer, I just do challenges, and there is a lot of smurf squads. People message after the match telling me their red rank profile name, like it's some bragging right.
It is so easy to create another player profile on console.
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Smurfing is out of hand, but it goes both ways.
Do you know how many rank 17 killers my rank 20 daughter runs into with full tier 3 ruin, undying, tinkerer combos?
Needless to say, quite a bit. It's at the point on PS4 that the rank 17s are better than the rank 1s.
Smurfs need to go, bring back that MMR.
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There should be something that prevents the possibility of those that have played for long enough to have full load outs from playing against new players that are just learning the game. I know the new MMR is supposed to match based on skill but new players should get some extra protection against experienced players. Maybe something like if you have atleast made it to level 30 with any character then you should automatically be bumped from brown to yellow rank and not allowed to drop past it. The amount of times I've been matched with a rank 20 killer that has ebony mori and full purple load out with all random character teachables is pretty ridiculous. Or I get a random rank 20 survivor in my lobby with p3 outfit and meta load out. At my rank it doesn't matter to me BUT it's pretty screwed up they'd normally be matched with a new player.
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Its why as a killer I always let my survivors live most of them I dont even hook that way they might stay with the game its become so toxic 3 years ive played this game and its just become well horrible 💔 only advice I have for new players is to play durning the day and please devs tell them in tutorial that if they camp they lose points or fix it
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They need to learn the hard way. You don't learn anything if you are always winning. If a few survivors get out, that should be acceptable, especially being new.
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You can't learn anything if you are playing against someone who is overwhelmingly better than you. It doesn't work like that in any game. Especially if we speak about toxic smurfs trying to make your experience miserable. That just discourages newcomers, and you can't demand them to go tryhard before they get engaged.
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They could add something that tracks playtime, though I guess that would be expecting a lot of a company who can't even do console optimization
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I'm starting to be very glad that I started playing Killer before Cross Play happened. Granted it was still rough because good Killer perks are scattered to the 4 winds while survivor can have a pretty meta load out after maxing 2 free Survivors (Meg and Bill for Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable) but still. I don't remember running into any bully SWFs early on as Killer. It seems like smurfing on console is ridiculously easy. Doing it on Steam is possible but you at least have to pony up for another copy of the game.
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But that is the beauty of my method. Even if you didn't INTEND to Smurf you are still above the level of the Killers you are pulling. When you get me, the scales are balanced and we have a nice even game. Do you follow? So if I kill you all (or you beat me) things are as they should be. It is Win/Win.
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I've been playing for about a month or so and my advice is just practice. I play pretty much as Ghost Face and if you stick with the game enough you'll become a problem for most survivors.
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Nothing wrong to losing to people at least somewhere on your level. But if for instance a baby trapper who uses his one perk slot to bring monstrous shrine, doesn't know how to set traps and tries to break pallets with his basic attack goes against 4 survivors with 1000+ hours the only thing he'll learn is to play something else.
And if in the long run playing killer as a noob becomes completely miserable so that very few are willing to stick with it it'll start affecting other stuff (i.e. survivor queue time)
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With the "smurf squads" it's not just that they win and get out. They bully these lower ranked killers hardcore with constant flashlight clicking, body blocking, t-bagging, you name it.
Demoralizing someone like this doesn't make them learn anything as DBD is already a hard game to know what exactly you did wrong and should have done instead if you're newer. And if they do want to play another match, they're more likely to slap on a mori, tunnel, or equip Ruin/Undying if they have it imo.
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LULZ ok.
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Would you think the same way if I slugged 4 new survivors at 5 gens?
"they need to learn the hard way" right?
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Pretty much that is accurate. I'm looking for Smurfs, 100%. If I don't find them, I let the little fish play and just play at their level. I'm not interested in beating up on people in Kindergarten. That is boring. I'm interested in the big game, and I can spot a Red Rank (or Purple) Survivor pretty much immediately. Do I like this situation? No.
However, since I started doing it I have been tracking first the matches of my gal who out of 11 got 8 Smurfing groups... and obvious ones. We are talking between 1-3 Red Ranks offset by one weird lower Rank. Since she gave up on the game because of that I find that the vast majority of the games I get include at least 1-2 Red Ranks even though she "was" Rank-14 when I took her over. She isn't anymore, obviously as I've been punishing every Smurf group I can get my hands on.
So, I agree that the sooner they have a GOOD matchmaking system, the happier I'l be. My gal might try again.
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There is a difference between losing every now and then and getting stomped.
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If you recommend this game to anyone tell them to start with survivor, to understand the game a bit before playing killer.
The devs would do themselves a favor if they implement a practice mood so players can learn maps and killers powers without having to feel like newbies that everyone laughs at. Even when you play survivor it can be stressful I remember my first game I did not know anything so when healing a survivor I did not know there would be skill checks, so I missed and missed and got that survivor killed. I felt horrible.
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A 5yr old playing against MJ in his prime in a serious match is going to only learn one thing. Never play basketball again 🤣🤣🤣
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I don't feel bad for new killers at all.
My significant other played this game for the first time as killer last week ( first time playing the game, actually ) and has ZERO idea as to what perks are or why they matter.
My significant other got 4K super easy.
In fact, he said it was so easy, it wasn't even very fun.
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I'm pretty sure you either didn't read what the post is about, or your other half demolished some red ranks on his first time playing - in which case please pass on my congratulations.
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Yeah and if you want meta perks to counter the SWF's meta perks be prepared to grind to oblivion!
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Yeah this game is long overdue for a practice mode. Trying to practice AND compete should not go together without a quality matchmaking system, which DBD does not have.
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Yeah there's a curve. You need thick skin, and you need to endure alot of "abuse" but once you get the hang of it and get the perks it only gets better. That's the toughest part for me as a killer; lacking the perks. I am able to keep my head up knowing that every game is going to just help me with fundamentals and also the raw experience helps. I've only been playing for a little over a month now and hit rank 3 before the season ended. I was winning games but not scoring well with pips, so that is another challenge for me to overcome. The game can be rewarding as well as a feelsbad but that's the nature of the beast. I feel that, as a newer player, I faced that fork in the road early: do I endure and go through this struggle and misery, or do I quit and move on? Nothing is worst than wasting time I feel nowadays, so I gave it a few days to break and think about it. I picked it back up and have the right mindset now so I'm numb now to getting gen rushed, or trolled, or held hostage or any of those things. I see the top ranked killers on stream and YouTube and understand that I can be among them as long as I keep my focus and enjoy myself. Alot of people, new players too in any game, feel that pressure from not only learning but also just getting stomped (on both sides) the worst thing to do is feel rushed to get better and have to do better right away. I feel that the skillcap in this game is much higher than it looks. I have faced meta perks with no issues now because I learned to adapt and make slugging a thing; sh*tty of me to the community but I am the killer- I will use the tools and the mechanics to my benefit as every SWF red rank 1 try hard team I have faced. And that's not meant to be a diss, on the contrary, they worked their asses off to earn and unlock those perks and they know damn well what they are doing, it's only fair to myself that I play the same.
What's helped me the most as a new killer, besides youtube content, has been to ignore post game chat. I say my GGs and move onto the next game.
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I can give you first hand experience. I started playing killer around a month ago. It wasn't going too well so I farmed up bloodpoints in survivor. I decided to use the killer I hated the most: doctor. Because of the matchmaking, I had to use a toxic doctor build with NOED in order to get a win. Eventually, I started playing huntress and bubba. After that period, I no longer used NOED. I can say that it is pretty rough. Not enough to make me want to delete the game, but it was rough
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Ive seen this kind of thing happen a few times both as killer and survivor and I agree that its annoying and needs something to fix or compensate for it. Its gotten to the point where no matter what side I'm playing I try to send them a message giving them some kind of tips they can focus on to try to improve or something to look out for so they can improve as I would hate to see someone leave so early from stuff like you describe. Whether or not the take any advice I give is up to them but I like to at least think it helps a little
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