No Bloodlust = True Skill Balance
I've been seeing a lot of killer mains posting their annoyance about the lack of bloodlust this weekend and I only have one thing to say about that:
If you are experiencing survivors escaping more often this weekend and feel no bloodlust is the issue, you're finally seeing the skill-gap those particular survivors have compared to you.
Bloodlust is the equivalent of throwing GTA V's catch-up feature from races into a proper Forza race. It's a subtle crutch that gives killers an edge they wouldn't normally have, even when they're already faster.
If a survivor is getting away more, then they are ultimately outplaying you. There will always be small outliers, but claiming bloodlust is the difference maker is not a reasonable excuse.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
Comments
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Agreed. I rarely get bloodlust ever, as I just break pallets and use my power before bloodlust comes into effect. Which is what all killers should do. The true skill of killers should come out around now.
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Bring back bloodlust!!!
Killers getting exposed!!! 🤣
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nah
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Survivors should be scared of this, actually, very similar to the map reworks. With the map reworks, killers were already fighting an uphill battle, so when there is a closer semblance to balance, Killers seem OP. Now, if they truly remove Bloodlust after this experiment (I'd say keep BL 1, but BL 2 and 3 need to go 100%), then Killers are going to become better players and thus Survivors are going to have a harder time on average. Now, this is ultimately a good thing, but I'd just be careful if I was you.
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Literally one of the worst examples I have seen. It's so obvious what the killers mistakes are. Respecting pallets constantly and falling for fake vaults is not a reason for a lack of bloodlust being a bad thing.
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Is this to imply killers may have been on a power trip after believing their speed boost was who they really were all along?
sounds humbling... humility’s a good thing, tho
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If a survivor running around a window 3 times in a row and me never catching up due to terrible map design and loop balancing is apparently classified as them being "better" than me and "outplaying" me then jeezus christ.
Looks like ebony spirit players are the best people in the game by that logic.
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Imagine that killer on bloodlust 3. Faster than Ferrari.
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I think that bamboozle should be basekit
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This would be like a killer saying that no exhaustion perks would be true skill balance lol
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Let's be honest, 90% of the survivor community is nothing without their exhaustion/2nd chance perks! I'm actually shocked that I managed to make it to rank 5 without any second chance perks!
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Good killers won't see a difference this weekend. The main issue here is that most people (the vast majority of people complaining about balance on these forums: on both sides) think they are much better than they actually are. You can always play better, people don't wanna hear that when they lose though. Lots of great killer streamers out there people can learn from - I believe Goose went 8+ hours the other day playing a variety of killers with no addons and did not lose a single kill. A perfect example that you can always play better.
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I hardly ever bloddlust and if I do, I'm legit 3 steps from being in lunge radios!
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I mean 90% of killers are nothing without their gosh darn chase and slowdown perks. The game uses perks to balances things instead of balancing the game itself to allow more freedom with builds.
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If you took those away everyone would become top tier survivors and make killers boycott because they would actually do the damn gens for once
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All that killer had to do is break the pallet....
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I don't know if you noticed bud.
My post wasn't serious.
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A killer managed to kill someone in a 4 man SWF. Therefore all bloodlust is disabled for the weekend to adjust for this crime.
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Meanwhile at all the infinites the lack of blood lust has made....
This is foolish to ignore the game balance issues of the infinites created by Blood Lust's removal.
Post edited by Warcrafter4 on6 -
Exhaustion perks aren't basekit, bloodlust is.
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You do realize that there are still infinites in this game right? And maps are not designed in a way that would be balanced without bloodlust.
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I say since we're experimenting, we experiment with turning off the red glare while in chase at the time blood lust 2 would activate, if no blood lust it will allow for some mean mind games. Which would be more fair imo, survs get their infinite windows, you cant see our glare five meters before killers come around a wall, obviously you can moonwalk but who cant read those these days. Just food for thought
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ok lets remove vaulting windows pretty fair then i would say
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I dont see how the killer getting mindgamed at that pallet is a good example of why we need BL. I've never seen anyone respect a pallet that hard and not eventually just break it after falling for 15 fake vaults. That clip would probably be a better example of why we need better MM.
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damn you got me. You win bruh
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Agreed! I think we'll see people adapt properly and get better. Totally makes sense that losing the speed boost will make people think differently and improve.
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I mean, if you're getting looped and windowed that often, I would argue that it's a matter of tactics. If you're relying on that extra speed boost to catch folks, it might be time to adapt and improve. It's not like survs can counter like in a game such as Friday the 13th, so sadly looping is the only cheesy thing people can do to help themselves and their team. I'm not saying I like it, but it's a trade off.
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Thats the basic mentality. If killers cant catch up in 5 seconds then they are obviously bad and shouldnt be allowed to play the game with the survivor masters. As much as i love the concept of this game.....at this point i dint think this game is going to get better. The devs seem to not really care about what killer players have to say, if people good at the game say its bad they are insulted and told its bad for new players and survivors. If newer players take issue with something all we hear is "GiT gUd"
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I disagree.
I've been playing quite a bit of killer today. With one exception, the only times I've really wished Bloodlust wasn't off was when, after a pallet drop or hit, the Survivor would just start holding W and beeline their way across the map. This was in spite of playing quite a few matches as killers that one might expect would miss Bloodlust quite a bit. Legion, Pig, Demo, and Trapper specifically. Last I checked, a survivor just holding W across the map is not particularly skillful but as those 4 killers... I don't exactly have any way to counter that either. Bloodlust was never a perfect solution to that problem but it was capable of helping.
The one exception I mentioned earlier was a game I had as Trapper where... I don't know how they did it but almost none of my traps stayed active for more than like... 15 seconds. I didn't see an OoO gamer or anything... but I was basically completely unable to get anything out of my power, basically leaving me as a basic M1 killer. The fact that this can happen to Trapper and will also be possible to do against The Twins for 45s when they come out makes me think that Tier 1 Bloodlust should still exist.
I will say though that Deathslinger and Blight do not miss Bloodlust. They're powers give them enough range/mobility that they don't need it.
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There are plenty of issues on both sides, but it's really not fair to say the devs ignore killers. As someone who tends to play surv, I find it to be the opposite. So I'd say it's just the devs at this point not understanding proper balancing in this game still lol
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I never had problems without bloodlust but then I got midwich with a looping survivor who abused every single room on the map. Oh boy.
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You apparently think maps are balanced if bloodlust isn't needed.
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that was so satisfying to watch, a survivor reading a killer movement like a book and he can keep himself on the same pallet loop until he make a mistake and get actually punished for it, unlike bloodlust where you get punished no matter how well you perform
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I never said they were balanced, because I agree that the maps are not balanced on both sides. There are plenty of other issues I have with the games current balancing, but for people to say that bloodlust creates an issue for killers just isn't fair to say.
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My point exactly! I feel like many killers aren't realizing how much bloodlust gives them an advantage when someone is outperforming them, even though they still get hit/downed. This weekend is showing what happens when the survs who understand evading the most actually have that fighting chance.
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Yea, the map balancing is another issue, but that's for another discussion lol
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How do you use your power if you're myers in chase? How should i use my power as myers in chase so i'm skillful?
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It's a bit of a nerf to Plague and Legion, but overall not too many killers are really affected.
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Damn you must be amazing at this game finishing all your chase under 15 second
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Let's see how skill based this game is without DS UB DH and OOO
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The entire point of blood lust being added in to begin with was bandaid fixing map balancing....
BL was literally made as a fix to map balance.
Edit: To quote the announcement
This weekend, Bloodlust will be temporarily disabled on the live version of the game.
Why?
Bloodlust was originally introduced as a means to help the Killer catch up to Survivors at strong window loops. At the time, these loops were safe enough that the Survivor would gain a significant amount of distance each time the vaulted the window, making it impossible for the Killer to catch them.
Infinites and map balance were why it was added in and we still have both in the forum of infinites/pseudo infinites as people have found out how to make the "Fun bus" aka open window bus a true infinite by making the entity blockers not spawn by forcing the chase to be dropped.
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Now that you talk about skill.
May I ask if your build contains DS and a exhaustion perk?
I'm really curious.
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Removing Bloodlust would be fine, because it carries killers against better survivors. The problem is - there is not enough killers in high ranks, so the game will throw unexperienced killers to the meat grinder. And that's not healthy for the game, because unequal confrontation is boring for both sides.
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That is fair enough sir/madam
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Exactly, the removal of Bloodlust shows the true skill of players. Tiles which were unplayable for Survivor before now become playable, talking about unsafe Loops here which are also fair for the Killer (if they are at least as good as the Survivor).
But what many people seem to forget - this is a TEST. So it will end. And I am pretty sure that Bloodlust will not be removed until the rest of the Maps are ironed out, I guess, there will also be more tests in the future. They are probably checking right now if their current Map Reworks work (In my opinion - YES) and which Maps need further Reworks in the future (maybe to get a priority list, e.g. if most bad games happened on Haddonfield, they will do Haddonfield sooner than the Swamp, for example).
In general, the better the Killer is, the less they need Bloodlust. The good Killers will most likely not even feel a difference, so I am pretty sure that Bloodlust will be removed, if all Maps are reworked. It was meant to be a temporary band-aid fix, after all. And if players derank because of that, they just get back to the territory where they should be. I have already seen some videos of Killers having a hard time, but I also see that those do a lot of mistakes and those videos are more of a confirmation that Bloodlust needs to go than anything else - if you mess up that hard, you should not deserve the Hit.
Below are my Killer games so far, I am not sure how many I can get in today (I will have some stuff to take care of) or tomorrow:
All at Rank 1/2:
Game 1 Legion, Badham - 2K, 8 Hooks
Game 2 Pig, Badham - 4K 12 Hooks
Game 3 Trapper, Sanctum - 2K, 9 Hooks
Game 4 Wraith, Resting Place - 4K, 12 Hooks
Game 5 Hag, Abattoir - 4K, 9 Hooks
Game 6 Doctor, The Game (Map Offering from a Survivor), 4K, 11 Hooks
Game 7 Wraith, Wretched Shop, 4K, 10 Hooks
Game 8 Doctor, Wretched Shop, 4K, 12 Hooks
Game 9 Legion, Hawkins, 4K, 10 Hooks
Game 10 Pig, Torment Creek, 3K, 10 Hooks
Game 11 Pig, Wreckers Yard, 2K, 9 Hooks (Key)
Game 12 Pig, Badham, 1K, 7 Hooks
Game 13 Pig, Rotten Fields,3K, 5 Hooks (1st Hook Suicide, Hatch Escape)
Game 14 Pig, Shelter Woods, 3K, 7 Hooks (1st guy died with the trap, second one killed himself on 2nd hook, farming afterwards, Survivor 3 dies by trap, Survivor 4 gets Hatch)
Game 15 Trapper, Shelter Woods, 1K, 5 Hooks
Game 16 Trapper, Badham, 3K, 9 Hooks
Game 17 Wraith, Cowshed, 0K, 4 Hooks
Game 18 Wraith, Ironworks, 1K, 7 Hooks
Game 19 Clown, Pale Rose, 4K, 8 Hooks
Game 11 would have been at least a 3K (1 guy was on death hook), but they found a Key in a Chest with 1 Gen to go, Game 14 would have been a 4K with 4 or 5 Gens left, but I wanted to let them farm because I felt bad for them (they gave me the one Kill in the end).
Game 17 was really bad played from me, but it was Cowshed. They had Barn into Long Wall into T/L-Wall into Long Wall into Long Wall into Jungle Gym and from there, the Survivor could go either to Cow Loop or Shack. This is one of the Maps which still needs changing, but I doubt that I would have been much better with Bloodlust, like I said, I played pretty poorly this game and Cowshed is one of the worst Maps for Killer in general.
But overall, I dont see much difference to my usual results, they look around the same. So I dont notice the change that much.
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This is complicated because while its true that NOW killers are getting more love than before, Its critical to remember a lot of the fixes in recent history are fixes not to things that just were part of the game, but fixes to a laundry list of problems capitulating to survivors to add vacuum pallets to the game, which... basically broke DBD for all of 2018 and a lot of 2019, and that ultimately killers DID recieve a lot of... active neglect from the BHVR.
So when a lot of killers say 'the devs don't care about killers' it isn't literally true, but there is definitely truth behind that feeling, and I think it is fair for killers to be SUPER MISTRUSTING of the devs as a result. Sure, we are at the point where Killers aren't just in 'damage control' mode but actually getting proactive love, there is such a long history of neglect that we should still like... actively be trying to earn back killer trust.
To put it another way? Its super messed up that the first major live game test was dumped on killers as a nerf to a system that was added in response to killers literally unionizing and resorting to collective bargaining tactics to fix super critical issues in the game, when there is a long history of core systems being changed willy-nilly and just annihilating killer gameplay. The unfair handling of the two sides of the community has a pretty long history with lots of instances of changes being very quickly forced on killers and not being reverted for a long time, while necessary killer changes are 'tested and itterated' indefinitely.
Bloodlust is a huge part of this history and represents a concession necessary to fix things that everyone agrees in hindsight were completely broken that had to be torn through a lot of rage and shouting out of BHVR's hands in a way that was actually completely pathetic and shameful.
So to a lot of killers, this sudden test being 'anti-killer' is a flashback to stuff like Swivelhook, or the endless reign of DS completely nuking the game for them. The fact that things are better now and we actually get cool things for killers like reworks and modernizations that fix longstanding issues that aren't just 'We are trying to avoid nerfing vacuum pallets and thus this isn't a killer buff but an attempt to keep survivors super broken' doesn't really... erase that history, and we aren't actually that far out from it.
So Devs really just... shouldn't foist super negative sweeping changes into the laps of killers willy nilly ever? It isn't an 'on balance' thing anymore, it has a lot to due with the economic incentives of asymmetric games encouraging devs to minimize with the 'few' side and overly-generous to the 'many' side. Its... I think fair to say pretty obvious the devs would never force a sudden nerf on survivors as a test, which is kinda screwed up, even if things have been actually on an upswing for killers recently.
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As someone who plays both sides, but mainly survivors, i say they dont ignore survivors, but the advantage survivors have in the game are still very high.
But to your topic: I agree with you in some ways. The point is to look at why the survivor outclass the killer.
And there are mainly 2 reasons:
Bad matchmaking: The devs prioritize matchmaking times over actuall game balance, we know that. This way, people with highly different skill levels are matched against each other. If you are the low skill killer player, you are in for a hard time, because even one or two survivor more skilled unbalance the game so much in their favor, that you have no chance. Bloodlust helped to hide that fact, because if the skill difference was not too much, it helped the killer keep up. Without it, he can´t. But since i dont think we will get a fair matchmaking anytime soon, bloodlust might be needed to compensate the skill difference the game puts you in on purpose.
The other possibility is that the survivor and the killer are actually on the same skill level, but the survivor have soo much advantage on their side, that it is hard to keep up as killer. Gentimes are fast, and a survivor that can waste enough time will end the killer game as fast. In that case, further balance need to be achived if you disable bloodlust, either through killer sided map reworks, killer buffs or survivor nerfs.
I only played as solo survivor that weekend, because thats what i do most of the time anyway. I Never got killed, and i seldom saw more than one guy dying.
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no discord and SWF=true skill balance
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They take it away just because the survivors say killers don't need it and I quit.
Bloodlust DOES help in certain situations - most for me because I deal with five minute games almost everyday I try to play.
This game is already getting more survivor sided.
Hell, even the new killer is survivor sided - I don't see it getting use at all.
Just for fun - and not enough people playing this game want to have fun, they want to sweat and win.
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I'd like to believe what you're saying is true. But, it just isn't.
Removing bloodlust isn't showing the skill gap of any nature, it's showing how poorly designed the maps truly are. Infinites still exist. Its not a crutch mechanic for bad players, it allows killers to catch up in a loop when they otherwise wouldn't unless the survivor makes a mistake.
I mean, survivors in general are already stronger than killers, especially swf with the perks they have.
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