Moris and Keys should be removed

I agree, they should be removed since they're unhealthy for the game, but I doubt the developers would do it with the money and effort they put into it, especially for the kill animations.

A change for them would be the most likely outcome, which should be something like:

Keys: Only allows the holder to escape. Opening the hatch now has an animation of 2-3 seconds, which can be interrupted by the Killer hitting you, so you can't just escape in his face.

Mori's: Only become usable once every survivor has been hooked at least once. Removes the aspect of tunnelling with a mori and gives the survivors a chance to get out.

Ideas by Otzdarva, probably the best we could get.

I don't think either needs to be removed but they need to be SERIOUSLY toned down.

Key probably should be a 'One survivor only' mechanic. You can't pop the whole team out.

Ortz's idea for Moris is that they should require everyone to be off their first hook state. This isn't a terrible idea, as it helps remove the 'tunnel down' aspect but still allows killers to get a HUGE swing in pressure if they play very well. Might make survivors think twice about being super casual about trading spots on the hook too.

Yes.

Completely agree. Not much else to say. Throw them in the campfire and watch them burn.

I would only consider leaving yellow mori and broken key. I would prefer yellow mori base-kit though.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

• Yes, get rid of them.....
• Well nerf them.....
• Can we get rid of one but not the other?

All within a few sentences too. Thanks for the laugh.

Umm ok, I'd be fine with getting rid of them. Don't know where I said nerf them, and yellow mori is just an animation on a survivor that's already dead so what's the problem?

No you took what I said and twisted it. Big difference. Also didn't point this out earlier, I never said to "remove one but no the other" I specifically pointed out broken keys and yellow mori's, both of which are versions of the stronger variants without the problem points.

if you want bullet points here you go:

• Yes remove them I agree
• If you don't wan to remove them completely the green key and yellow mori aren't problems
• I would prefer yellow mori base kit however over keeping it. For more details, I would prefer not to waste an offering slot for just an animation at the end of the match on an already dead survivor.

At least understand what you're reading before you throw out such bold responses. If you thought that was "word salad" you need to work on your reading comprehension.

keep the aspect of aura reading with keys in the form of another item. And just completely change Moris to something else

honestly I see more keys then I do moris but usually if there is a mori there is a good chance there was a survivor with a key that provoked it

Ok so some people don't seem to get the issue with keys. So lets break it down.

Both Moris and Keys totally change the end objective for both sides in a major way that totally flips the time scale the game is balanced around.

However, in most ways keys are WORSE than a Mori. That is right, I said it. Keys are worse designs than current Moris.

See, a key in a SWF lobby with a good team just guarentees the killer won't pip unless they focus down the key holder, and even then someone else can just nab it. The entire game goes from being about map pressure for the killer to this nonsense of keeping away the keys. The killer has almost no power to negotiate that outcome besides preventing the survivors from doing ANY gens. Getting 3 gens done isn't hard, and two survivors just bouncing from the game is pretty crushing.

Moris may be more 'dramatic' but its often the case in games for the more subtle option to be better. This is what game designers call 'invisible power.' A mori just removes 1 hook state from survivors. This is still HUGE and a crazy tempo swing as losing two chases becomes a death state instead of 3, but the killer still needs to find survivors and win chases, and you can do things like rotate the runners on your team in SWF. Its bonkers busted, but there is counterplay that there isn't really for keys.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't me saying 'Moris should stay as they are, its the keys that are the problem.' It is just that keys SUCK TO PLAY AGAINST. They are awful, the game warps to this nightmarishly awful thing on a level beyond playing vs Moris. At least moris have a 'positive tension' thing going on where suddenly the stakes of the chase are way higher, while with keys the stakes of chases are kinda the same its just the value of your time that warps and requires you to basically run the game in a way that doesn't really work in high level play. The main point of agitation about Moris that isn't there for keys is player elimination, but player elimination is a key mechanic of DBD and without it we would be full Deathgarden, and no one wants that.

Vs a Mori, a good player or group can still win. Solos can still hatch. Survivors still have POWER vs a Mori. Killers lack that. Which is why killers DESPISE keys. A lot of the 'things killers complain about' are feeling helpless in scenarios where they have perfectly analyzed the situation but can't 'force through' a survivor's transparent plans: It isn't about losing interactions, its about having no ways to win interactions. Keys are the worst offender here.

In order for keys or moris to see realistic changes that won't make the game more empty than it already is. We would need to see big mechanic updates and item additions and changes to what on the maps.

Ideally killers should be rewarded moris for doing their jobs and doing certain things since killers want to actually be the power role and being able to be an actual slasher and not hook boi for daddy spider satan is one of the small ways this is achieved. But the game is so empty that there isn't many ways you can implement mechanically that dosen't neuter it entirely.

Not unless you get rid of all moris and just let killers mori on third hook after everyone been hooked once as base kit. Which would reward killers for playing the long game and focus on getting everyone hooked for the kill so it would shift them from tunneling-as much-

Keys main issue is the same as all items. They can be found on the blood web which makes them not that special to survivors-so they're pretty expendable at their core- and there's no awe in them. Keys also don't really do anything interesting, just allow them to shorten the game or get hatch.

In an ideal DBD: keys could only be found in a either a very dangerous area for a survivor to be in maps. Maybe even in a place with enviromental hazards and the killer has the advantage. And have more interesting effects than it does now. Like, it could be used to turn on certain things in each map.

In terms of what key is: it's at best a tool to annoy the killer and get hatch points. It's essentially a bail out item from the match early. Which seems like an odd thing to put in your game. I get the feeling the key and mori was put in at a time the design where there were a lot more intended offerings and item choices that could blatantly make the game unfair for either side.

but right now it's just blood points and offerings no killer would ever touch so they end up stacking up moris to use-so they get annoying for survivors- and for survivors if they farm BP and even try to go after chests they'll get all the items types you can get and end up farming keys pretty quickly- which is annoying for killers-

I think they should make the yellow mori basekit then remove all of them. That way they keep their animation and getting a 4k is more rewarding since you get to see the cool animation.

lol

Yes I agreed, offered some additional tweaks I would potentially consider and my thoughts since that's what OP asked for is totally within reason of a response. It wasn't "an entirely different point". It was still on topic.

I just went back and reread all my post just to make sure, I didn't reference "others" in any of them as far as I see, what are you talking about?

You didn't understand, I was pointing that out. That seems to still be the case. I posted additional times to clarify what should be obvious but wasn't to you. Don't know what you mean by "scouring the internet" either, no where was that introduced.

Good job making things up :)

Inb4 "HAHAHA thanks for the laugh" because that's totally a point lol.