Dedicated Servers, Latency and Windows Hits
As a dev, i understand network latency. Really. Even if, with the right algorithm, latency can be predicted and adjusted at runtime, like many online games are doing. Imagine playing a first person shooter, with thousand of projectiles shoot every second, with the same network-oddities that DbD performs. It would be nearly impossibile to headshot. So, these killer "hits" way beyond the windows, after a vault, are getting way too ridiculous. With the right perks, fast vaults works 1/3 time over 10, if you're lucky enough to even vault (sometimes windows don't work at all). So, Devs, if a player have to keep in consideration the latency, what's the point looking at the killer, trying to judge the right distance while in a chase? If you take the decision to vault windows to spare pallets, it's because from your perspective you think you can make it safely. 9 times out of 10 you get hit no matter what, even when the animation is already over and you're already running away from it. That's absurdly ridiculous.
So the question is: why don't invest a bit more resources to fix these things, that annoy your players and are making the game so unfun to play, instead of spending a of money and resources in making "cool intros"? Why don't solve these very annoying and boring things instead to introduce a new DLC every month? Your game isn't working properly do you understand that?
Comments
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EXACTLY!!! The lag is starting to REALLY tick me off. I wish they never put in dedicated servers...they are suppose to be better but they didnt implement them properly...I had less issues with P2P...
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While it doesn't solve the issues completely it is best to make sure that your FPS is locked to a multiple of 30 that your system can maintain at all times.
Having a fluctuating FPS, even mildly, greatly exacerbates the issues even more so if they aren't locked to a multiple of 30.
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...umm this is 2020...noone plays 30 fps anymore...hell most ppl are starting to leave 60...its all about 144-360hz....the future is now old man
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I said multiples of 30.. which means 30, 60, 90, 120 and locked to one that your system can always maintain because the dedicated servers are running like they always have at 30hz.
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@forthelulz Yes the fps are locked at 60 and the rig is powerful enough to have enough stability to run way more complex games than DbD. The hit after voult is simply ridiculous in most of the situations. When you're in chase you've have to eyeball the distance, and you take decisions because of it. Then it comes the "latency". So you have to "mentally" subtract latency from your distance, and correct your next moves. It's hilarious. So always looking at the killer doesn't makes so much sense. There are Hillbilly chainsaw hits after voult that makes no sense at all. The problem aren't the hitboxes like everyone think. The problem is the "attack range cone" in front of the killer, and the player has absolutely no clues if the distance is far enough to take right decisions. Latency is predictable and fixable. I don't know why this game is different from any others. Think about Fortnite, same engine, but his code is close to perfection and has many latency predictability algorithms to adjust everything at runtime. Why DbD is different. Maybe the engineers are way better, or better paid.
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Yeah I hated it so much that you can fast vault with plenty of time, fully land then take 3 running steps and still be hit constantly. So much so that I started trying to figure out the best way to minimize things.
I found locking frames (either by vsync or otherwise) as well as disabling smoothframes helped me a lot. By monitoring my incoming/outgoing packets and testing various things I noticed that the game in its default settings with with vsync on, using 60hz, and smoothframes left on resulted in my client only "registering" (sending out a packet) ~45 frames/second rather than the steady 60FPS I was showing at all times meaning it was ignoring those other frames as well as making the overtime timing as bad as possible since the server always updates 30hz.
Turning them off allowed me to constantly send out ~60FPS which helps the utterly absurd issues this game has tremendously but sadly doesn't fix, it is however worth looking into since it is quick and easy to check and fix on your end, and helps enough that I couldn't imagine going back.
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@forthelulz That is interesting! You did this config editing \AppData\Local\DeadByDaylight\Saved\Config\WindowsNoEditor\GameUserSettings.ini ?
BTW, is it normal that a person who bought a game has to figure out how to "minimize" client issues analizing data packets? I mean, kudos to you dude, but if I were the software company I would take a bath of shame for that.
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and where is the proof of this?
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Use whatever method you prefer and count the incoming packets over the course of 60 seconds while in a match. I like using AppNetworkCounter because it's simple free and easy but there are many ways.
Server always sends 1800/minute (30 updates per second = 30hz) regardless of what is happening or your FPS.
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I was just attempting to figure out if there was anything possible to improve things and noticed while trying various things, I tried everything from playing @ 30FPS to every combo of other settings just to see what the effects were. I knew that using a multiple of server tickrate would help as well as having a rock steady FPS is also very important, so I worked on that and then I suddenly noticed the lack of packets being sent out from my client. After making sure it wasn't an issue with my network or system I started to try to figure out what would get me ~3600 packets/minute with 60 FPS. Even though my system can handle 120 FPS I find that 60 FPS works better overall although sadly it still doesn't fix everything, but it is much better for sure.
To disable Vsync and set a frameratelimit you edit bUseVsync= and FrameRateLimit= located in GameUserSettings.ini then save file normally.
To disable smoothframes you must add these two lines to Engine.ini and then save file normally:
[/Script/Engine.Engine]
bSmoothFrameRate=False
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Not only survivors get ######### by dedicated servers, but also killers. Everything is delayed. Especially timing-dependent killers like Nurse or Doctor get screwed by the servers alot. Those 2 were a whole lot more consistent on peer-to-peer.
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@forthelulz thank you for the infos. Gonna try that. 😊
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@forthelulz well you may have ways to make it better for PC, they do have multiple other platforms that can't operate that way, which means the issue still needs addressed.
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A temporary solution could be reduce the killer attack cone range in proximity of a window. The fact that the killer mantain the same attack range distance after voult, is something unthinkable. It is like the killer arm is made of gum. Reduce the killer attack cone, just a bit, close to windows and pallets. 5 minutes of C++ code.
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Latency is predictable!
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167739X08001933
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190624111038.htm
"Professor Byungjoo Lee at the Graduate School of Culture Technology in collaboration with Aalto University in Finland presented a mathematical model for predicting players' behavior by understanding the effects of latency on players. This cognitive model is capable of predicting the success rate of a user when there is latency in a 'moving target selection' task which requires button input in a time constrained situation."
I took the examples of Fortnite for a reason. In Fortnite there are 100 players on a single map. 100! Imagine playing it with the same issues we find in DbD! And DbD has 5 players on one map! 5!!!
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I have 30-35 ping and my connection is super stable. Code seems to be killer-sided for what concerns hits regardless of ping (getting hit after clearing a window and being rubberbanded back to make it connect, dead harded but exhausted etc.)
I observed that both as survivor and killer, whereas I was given hits that were delayed and visibly very generous.
Grabs are a different story and seem very inconsistent, so I don't think either side is favored, but it doesn't occur often enough to be completely sure.
The implementation of dedicated servers was evidently subpar and probably a rushed decision. They aren't optimized at all and it looks like they simply slapped a server relay between a p2p, with the downside that now we have no idea what our real ping to the opposing side is.
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Its only fair that the code is killer-sided regarding hits, since the killer gets punished way harder for mistakes than survivors do. Imagine if the killer had to lead hits and shots according to ping now. That would make high precision killers like Huntress or Nurse unplayable. Latter of which already gets hurt because powers have a delay as well.
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I started to hate playing killers in this game because it was getting too hard on some maps to do it. I used to enjoy it before, but now it is becoming ridiculous. I even tried dedicated servers and I was actually able to find really cheap dedicated servers from GThost. They have everything in their offers for really great prices and I never regretted getting it. That did not help much with the game and now I only play survivor. It is really great when someone comes to play who is a really skilled killer. You get the feeling in your body like you really are running from some killer, but that is rare now. In almost 90% of cases it is easy to survive.
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lol you dont know what "fair" is, do you?
if they actually coded the game right it latency wouldnt have an issue to either side. Getting hit on the other side of pallets is just as much BS as going for a hit and the survivor "teleporting" just inches away.
Its not fair...and some killers are meant to be hard to play...I am rank 1 killer and survivor 2000 hrs.
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No it’s not fair, you are basically saying 5 people payed for a game but only 1 gets to play it optimally.
lt should be balanced for all players
also l almost spat my coffee out in disbelief when you said Huntress is a precision killer.
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Anyone notice they only complain when the latent vaults do not favor them, but the thousands of times a survivor gets a vault and shouldve been hit are countless.
"So, these killer "hits" way beyond the windows, after a vault, are getting way too ridiculous."
Just something I notice
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Now this is what i call a necro post.
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100%.
Devs are seriously out of their mind for focusing on improving "fancy" visuals while ignoring all the bugs and technical frustrations.
No penalties for SWF, insane lags, bugs which never fixed.
It really shows where devs' motivations are at.
They don't care customers but only care how their game look, because they think if the game looks cool then it could attract more players.
Seriously devs, if you ignore improving user experience, what will come is only doom.
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This sounds great! Can't wait to try it out!!
Umm.... ok............ so how exactly do I do this, er....... with my Xbox1???
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I only play because of dedicated servers.
I remember p2p it was a nightmare, every other game was someone basically lagging all around the map.
I'll take one whiffed attack or BS hit now and then over totally unplayable matches 1/3 times any day.
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you do realize the OP did not talk about how to fix the latency? so if person A has the fastest connection, and person C has the slowest and the only way they can "FIX" it is to SLOW the faster connections down artificially to the slowest connection. why can't they speed someone up? because you can't make someone that takes 100 milliseconds and push data to them FASTER than their connection can take, how ever you can delay data going to someone no matter their connection speed. Also didn't talk about how latency changes every second, every minute and depends on many factors that even go beyond 5 players and into the dark area called the internet. can't predict lag spikes from one router detecting a power loss and transferring it's load to another etc. so what are they supposed to do? do you want to have your game slowed down? why not work on something they can truly improve upon.
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post is almost a year old.....
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true but the object of the post is valid still today to an extent. I wanted to point out a few things that is misleading in OP before people started to build steam.
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P2P at the beginning was a nightmare...before they switched over it wasnt too bad. You had a connection bar to see your connection to the host...if it wasnt green you left...simple as that. If it was green there was never any issues...so yea, I rather not take BS hits and consider it fine because of lack of competence.
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This is wrong. Its called server side hit validation...its been a thing for over 8 years. You can have a laggy player go up against players with less latency and the server will factor the hits and positioning based on multiple algorithms to keep it pretty much perfectly fair for both sides. SO no they would have to slow fast connections down...they can improve on it...its called investing money in something that they believe wont have as much return as BS MTXs and fancy visuals...in the long run ppl want FAIR gameplay
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server side hit validation has nothing to do with fixing latency. that just puts a bandaid on the problem and they tried this and had to remove it because it was causing huntress to miss every hatchet even when it was a CLEAN hit. there are lots of ways to bandaid latency and none of it FIXES it what so ever. what I said is that there is no way to make a change to the latency which is what the OP was talking about at first and then moves on to other ideas but again you can not make a change to anyone's latency from slower to faster what so ever. I'd rather keep my fast speed in the game than get slowed down where i can't even determine when i need to hit the space bar to vault, skill check or swing/throw.
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Are you serious? The topic was NEVER about fixing latency...there will ALWAYS be those with low latency and those with high latency. Whether that be natural or intentional. Its not a bandaid...its a solution to provide fair play so both sides experience similar outcomes. They implemented it wrong..."they tried this" lol, you think DBD devs implementation of server side hit validation was going to be good right off the bat? Correctly implemented it is the solution. And the other ways of restricting latency and imposing caps to server and region locking is also a thing but much more strict. What I am saying is you dont understand the concept out of what you were first introduced to...dont worry about it...just know when I say correctly implemented server side hit validation IS A FIX...as there are many games that have it and have done it correctly.
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Agreed. Nothing like BS hits ruining the fun. You feel like no matter how well you play, the game screws you.
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I guess i read the OP wrong when it talked about latency, which is what I talked about. till the game moves to a SEVER BASED backbone game you will not have the ability to do anything you all want as the client is still a point to point with a server connection just playing referee. and that's if you go through a server! they would have to re-write the source code and have more robust servers and NO ONE would be able to play without going through a server (this is still allowed if there are no servers in the client area). but this is a completely different animal because once you go there you can have it the way you and others talk about it but for now the server has to make a referee call as to whom takes precedent and that is not a good way to work with this. You seem soooooooo informed on how to do so why not do it and show them how to do it since you know so much more than them.
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You did read wrong. The game is already using dedicated servers...the client on both sides communicates with the server and the server determines what is fair and produces that outcome...you have no idea what you are talking about but so desperately want to believe you do...because I am not an employee of the company and they are not paying me 120-150k to code their game.
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perhaps you should see if they'll take you on since you can fix this without an issue... but meh you also are incorrect as the game uses dedicated servers where available. not EVERY area has them and when they are not available the game is still point to point. this IS from the devs directly. but keep thinking you know everything, i certainly do not but i know what i knew. sheesh. you think you so good that you can charge 120-150K to code a game? they have more coders than one person and you'd never be able to do a game like this on your own in the time they do it.
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Why would I when its obvious I have a better placement right now? I am 100% correct in what I said and you are trying to 'disprove' it on technicalities. Also its peer to peer or how most normal IT people just say p2p... and most senior leads get paid 120-150k its quite normal...also for the amount of employees they have the turnaround isnt good by most standards. But meh, you are just a kid that thinks he knows too much, but keep thinking that you will go 'far'...
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since you have no proof i am done speaking with you as you are the one that has to convince me not that I have to convince you. I even accepted it and suggested you try to show them and use that to get a position so this won't happen again.... but you don't want to and you want to complain keep doing so and maybe someday someone else will bend an ear that isn't a sycophant.
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In business you don't spend money fixing problems that aren't costing you money or you believe are going to cost you money. The latency issues have been a problem for a long time and people are still playing the game. This game is a business. That's not a criticism. It's just the way it is.
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Umm what proof? Its common knowledge...lol. You are done speaking to me because you know I am right and your feelings are starting to get hurt for some unusual reason. Dont let your emotions control you so much. If you dont want to accept facts and the truth than so be it...I have no concern anymore to waste my time with someone trying to "convince" them of what is true when they so desperately hold onto the lies they have become accustomed to. This is the real world...not a game.
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Its also very naive and short term thinking. In the short run it costs more money to fix problems that need to be fixed but are considered non priority because they only factor that its not costing them at the moment instead of thinking long term...but if these problems were fixed now it would result in better return on investment. They would recapture players who have left because of those issues and regain new ones and in the end have the potential to make even more money.
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Perhaps. That's the thing though. They may lose some players over latency issues. My guess is it won't be many. So the question becomes which is going to cost them more?
1) The cost of implementing and maintaining better servers
or
2) The money they would lose from the people that would leave over server latency
If it's #2 then #1 becomes a priority. On the other hand if it's #1 then #2 is a loss they are willing to take.
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The point wasnt just about those who have left because of latency issues...but those who dont get the game as well because of that issue...and in the gist of things is alot of people.
1) Solving this issue would not only bring back old players that left but would bring in new ones who havent bought the game because of this reason...and just in general a better performing game is going to attract more players when fair play can be guaranteed. side note.. (this is why alot of people chose console over PC...which doesnt matter much anymore because the future is going crossplay...but it was a huge thing to avoid hackers)
2) in the long run they gain more money because they gain more players
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honestly it's a lost cause talking to this "PLAYER" why? they are the only ones that can be right and won't look at reality. You are correct in your assessment and the other one is just a person that hates being wrong.
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Honestly you are a lost cause...you get emotional about everything. Stop being a little ######### and drop your nuts kid. You dont have to cry about everything. Stop getting offended at facts and the truth and thinking you are right when you are BLATANTLY wrong. "reality" lol....when those who are wrong call their bubble reality and actually believe they are on the side of truth...thats ironic.
"just a person that hates being wrong." ---stop self projecting kiddo
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"you say servers are sometimes unstable, this is a misconception as the servers are rarely unstable in general BUT your connection to them might be and that is out of behavior or your control. one shoot? do you mean one shot mechanics? Cheating: happens even when killers aren't being dicks honestly, i've seen survivors cheating, i've seen killers cheating but i have never been able to prove it once. Your statement of "I do not rage, consternation" this is something you actually do and you have said it many times, you won't sit there while the killer hits you while on hook, disconnect is raging. Also your connection to your isp might be perfect, but what about the connection from the isp to the next router or that router to the next router in the hops? you can't know that your connection is good beyond your house, even your isp has drops at times."
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Why the necroing...let things die...
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While I don't think I'm wrong I at least realize I could be. At the same time I saw the reply you received from the other person. Apparently they believe the definition of irony is not accepting their opinion as fact. Somehow that seems ironic to me.
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it is ironic i agree. :) and i am not always right, i'm just someone that is observant and has a great deal of computer experience (over 40 years of it). yea ah well can't fix that which doesn't want to learn eh?
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Lets be real...there are plenty of things you are doing in your life that is wrong and you know it but continue to do them...that is what is ironic. Learn the difference between an opinion and a fact...but I doubt you ever will because you are so deluded you actually think some facts are "opinions". That is some damn good brainwashing.
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