New Ormond
I don't know, but somehow Ormond feels... empty? There are some really dangerous dead zones now with only one unsafe pallet. And the main building has nothing to use anymore. I didn't see a single pallet there and there is only one window downstairs now. It feels a lot like Groaning Store house main building now.
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Ormond is a single map realm, which always is a bit problematic if its survivor sided because survivors have FAR more control over what realm you play on.
Its part of why Chapel is noticeably killer sided to make up for Ward being very survivor sided.
Ormond is a truly massive map with extreme gen spread, and a very large central building. These are very survivor sided feature, and when the map was balanced like a regular map but everything bigger it just gave survivors far too many toys to use in a chase.
It seems like they are rebalancing the large maps to have the same level of resources as smaller maps, but spread out further, rather than the same density of resources (or in the case of Ormond, weirdly more) across the larger map meaning survivors have more tools over the course of the game. So if you end up in Ormond as a survivor, its far harder for the killer to gen pressure you and it takes more time for them to transition from a hook to another down, but on the flip side there are more deadzones and each resource spent in chase more valuable because you risk creating more deadzones.
This encourages you to utilize the larger map to track the killer better and use stealth (as avoiding entering a chase is more powerful the more distant gens are), and helps counteract the inherent disadvantage killers have on large maps. If you want to go to a very large map there are more deadzones.
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I understand the problem very well, but sometimes these dead (or death) zones spawn really bad. if there is no pallet in 40m radius but 2 gens, something is wrong. I also think that Ormond was too strong, but now it has the same problems as Shelter Woods and Wretched Shop. I understand that they removed the god pallet on the top floor and one of the windows downstairs, but now there is literally nothing exept the gen and a weird unsafe window.
I would rather get some unsafe pallets wich you need to play correctly, than a single mediocre pallet in an area where 2 gens are.
Or they should make the maps smaller.
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I haven't played new Ormond yet so I can't comment on that, but it's problematic if a map isn't balanced either way since killers have map offerings as well. If the dead zones are anything like they are on Sanctum of Wrath, which it seems like they are from the screenshots I've seen, it could be pretty brutal for survivors.
Chapel's an interesting example too - kinda besides the point, but that's one of my favorite maps in the game for both sides. I've always felt it was well balanced.
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I find Shelter Woods to be better since the rework as it seems to actually spawn pallets where you think a pallet should be compared to before where you could run at what looks like a rock loop to only discover that a pallet never spawned there. Also they added a pallet spawn by the tree which before was basically a dead area unless you had Balanced Landing.
Still one of my least favorite maps, because it looks boring compared to other MacMillan maps.
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Sanctum of Wrath depends... sometimes I get an OK layout, sometimes I ask myself if there were any pallets in the first place or if someone already wasted them all. Same with Wretched Shop. Even Swamp maps or Gas Heaven sometimes have no pallets in the center area.
Chapel never seemed like a "death zone map" for me. I always think I have a fair chance. Asylum on the other hand can have dead zones (usually one) but it is still very strong due to the main building. Removing one pallet upstairs and fix one of the 2 (NOT both) god windows could help M1 killers.
I just hope they fix maps and balance them for both sides. And not by removing all pallets from a building and make the window unsafe once the wall is broken (looking at you Groaning Storehouse).
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If they did it was needed. The main problem with Ormond was always size combined with the sheer number of linked tiles.
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I still hate it. BL can't be used on the tree now though.
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I know. But now it was too much. At least I'll get a ton of empty pallet locations for my Freddy now.
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Sanctum of Wrath always has a huge dead zone at ground level on the side of the main building that can spawn the basement stairs. The other side of the main building at least has that one vault you can either take or fake and one unsafe pallet, but it's still pretty barren. The ends of the map have a bit more to work with at least, but the sides are death traps.
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Oh, I never thought of the sides next to the main building. I always work with the building, but I know what you mean. If someone was working on that gen and i did not want to bring the killer to them i was screwed. maybe a not so safe pallet or a Z wall would work.
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Yes, that's one of the biggest situations where it bothers me! You're basically forced to run the killer up the main building, but that has two problems: 1) That can prevent a teammate from doing that critical center gen, like you called out, and 2) many of the drops and vaults from the top of the main building drop you right into one of the dead zones on the side, so the top of the center building isn't actually all that safe!
The other situation where this gets annoying is if someone gets hooked in the basement. For most basement spawns on most maps, the basement is underneath a fairly strong tile for survivors. Here, though, you exit the basement into a massive dead zone.
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The basement there is the main issue. Is is one of the worst Basements for survivor because it has no true basement pallet or a good window.
The Game basement is a bit too strong with 2 God pallets but that map is truly killer sided, so I call it even.
I would love a bit protection on the basement side. Like an L shaped wall with a secure but not God like window.
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While both killers and survivors have map offerings, survivors have control over the realm because they have 4 slots. The maps need to be designed assuming survivors can force the map they want with map offerings, hence why almost every 'single map' realm is very killer sided.
This is obviously not ideal and plays into how helpless killers often feel, and ideally would be solved just by giving killers a second offering slot, but it is the reality that we live in that in red ranks killers often constantly played in Ormond with survivors forcing the issue via two map offerings. Even if you used your own it was more likely than not, and anti-map offering wards are too rare to depend on.
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I think unsafe pallets are a great way to 'shrink' the map in some ways for survivors to get from one safe zone to another, but there is a question of how much is too much. Remember, even ignoring the amount of resources, big maps inherently favor survivors over most killers, so making it too easy to just go on a grand tour of the safe areas is problematic. Ideally survivors should 'exhaust' safety in a local area and create a deadzone after some time on a big map. Otherwise the map gets harder over time too slowly and that is an issue that causes maps to become way too survivor sided.
It isn't bad that maps can be big, but the design needs to account for this inherent downside. I think its fine for standard looping to want medium sized maps, with larger maps encouraging stealthier play. This helps make the maps feel different and forces survivors to take advantage of the unique features of different maps.
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Agreed! Just give us something lol, doesn't need to be a god pallet :D
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Not worth trying to play on Ormond, as killer or survivor, because the framerate is such crap (PS4). I just walk around and look at the scenery, which is kinda nifty. It'd be niftier if the fps were higher, though.
To anyone who gets me in one of their matches and I barely interact... uh, sorry? (But not really, 'cause I can't do anything about it.)
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what? are you kidding man? the rework sucks, keep giving more advantage to mediocre survivors giving to them infinite pallets.
the map is terrible, now is worse. you just walk 3 metres and you can choice...having 4 pallets to drop like bot.
as survivor main, you can destroy m1 killers in that map, dropping pallets like rank20...
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I'm not sure I'd say that's a big factor for map balancing. I can't remember the last time survivors stacked four of the same map offering to overrule the killer, and even then there's now an anti-map offering, as you mentioned. Realistically I'm sure the devs always try to make balanced maps but it just doesn't always work out that way, so they need to make tweaks. If they were good enough at map balance to make one-map realms killer-sided, they wouldn't need to resort to that. They could just make it reasonably balanced.
There are plenty of single map realms that are survivor sided or neutral. I'd put The Game (neutral; killer dependent), Haddonfield (survivor sided), Midwich (neutral; killer dependent), Dead Dawg (neutral), and Lery's (neutral; killer dependent) in that bucket. Hawkins is the only one-map realm I would say is clearly killer sided, although I haven't played new Ormond. Plus, old Ormond, Crotus (when it was alone), Red Forest (when Mother's dwelling was alone), etc. were all survivor sided.
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It's terrible. There Is literally s filler pallet you can lunge around (park benches). Every rock as been made trash. When thrown it's a 50/50. Other than that you could possibly mind game it before hand because its just that killer sided. Tons of deadzones removed alot of jungle gym spawns. Pretty bad map now so it's a sleeper.
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I'm completely fine with a dead zone after some time, but there shouldn't be one right at the beginning except it is always in the same place (like on Sanctum). You don't have time to check the map for dead zones first.
Not only on Ormond for me. I get really bad fps drops on all maps now. And I play on PC (medium quality about 50 fps). I hope they fix it, because dropping down to 15fps is not great.
Are you referring to Lèry's or Blood Lodge? Because I had Ormond multiple times today and there were a lot less pallets than before.
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Yeah, you're right. The fps gets especially bad the more matches I play. I have to restart the game and it's better for a bit and then gets awful again. This is an all-around horrible update.
I'd rather have a more barebones game that played well than a game full of bells and whistles that has a crippling framerate. I mean, what's the point of any new content when playing feels so awful?
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Fun fact: A while back someone asked the Devs (in a Q&A I guess) which maps they'll do first. They answered that they will do the old ones first since they are more taxing on older systems.
I was like: Ummm, on these maps I got the best performance...
I tried to switch from medium to low a while ago but it only got worse (my PC is a bit strange XD).
I had no fps problems on the PTB btw. Maybe something is bugged again and Causes this.
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I’ve only played on new Ormond a few times so I don’t know it too well yet, but it didn’t seem that bad to me. It’s much weaker than old Ormond, but then old Ormond was completely busted.
There are pallets in the main building, but the safe ones are upstairs. There’s at least one pallet on the lower floor but it’s super unsafe.
You just have to run earlier if you see the killer coming now because the tiles are more spread out and gens are more often in the open - but you can see the killer coming from miles away because the map is more open and bright now.
I’m gonna go in a KYF match and check it out later and see how many pallets and vaults it spawns, but I think it’ll be fine when people adjust.
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