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Why BBQ is superior to its Survivor counterpart We Are Gonna Live Forever - and how to change that

2

Comments

  • se05239
    se05239 Member Posts: 3,919

    Must the survivor's point generator be as good as the killers?
    I thought it was an asymmetrical game with killers having the power role.

  • Nerex7
    Nerex7 Member Posts: 52

    @se05239 said:
    Must the survivor's point generator be as good as the killers?
    I thought it was an asymmetrical game with killers having the power role.

    Power role in terms of gameplay, sure thing. They also already generate points more easily, so why not at least balance out the 100% perk to be more of a thing for Survivors.

  • Dreamnomad
    Dreamnomad Member Posts: 3,959

    @se05239 said:
    Must the survivor's point generator be as good as the killers?
    I thought it was an asymmetrical game with killers having the power role.

    Bloodpoints are bloodpoints. It doesn't matter where they are earned. If you want to completely max out all perks on survivors, it actually takes more bloodpoints than it does on killers since survivors have more perks. I'm not suggesting that survivors should inherently earn more bloodpoints. But the myth that survivors don't deserve as many bloodpoints should end. It's my time that deserves compensation if I play equally well.

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243
    yeet said:

    killer perks should be straight up stronger than survivor perks, it's 4 perks vs 16

    I understand that the killer is the power role but, a bloodpoint perk doesn't make survivors any stronger or any weaker. It's just something to encourage you to do something with a reward. Think of it as Dailies, it doesn't make you any stronger or weaker but it encourages you to do something for a reward.
  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @Nickenzie said:
    yeet said:

    killer perks should be straight up stronger than survivor perks, it's 4 perks vs 16

    I understand that the killer is the power role but, a bloodpoint perk doesn't make survivors any stronger or any weaker. It's just something to encourage you to do something with a reward. Think of it as Dailies, it doesn't make you any stronger or weaker but it encourages you to do something for a reward.

    Which is wrong. Having more bloodpoints at your disposal means you have more access to high quality items and add ons that you can bring into a match to make you … gasp … "stronger".

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243
    Wolf74 said:

    @Nickenzie said:
    yeet said:

    killer perks should be straight up stronger than survivor perks, it's 4 perks vs 16

    I understand that the killer is the power role but, a bloodpoint perk doesn't make survivors any stronger or any weaker. It's just something to encourage you to do something with a reward. Think of it as Dailies, it doesn't make you any stronger or weaker but it encourages you to do something for a reward.

    Which is wrong. Having more bloodpoints at your disposal means you have more access to high quality items and add ons that you can bring into a match to make you … gasp … "stronger".

    Same thing with the killer, I can just use BBQ and then spend the bloodpoints that I got as a killer on my survivors. Do you wanna nerf BBQ because I can farm Bloodpoints as a killer and then use them on my survivor? Exactly. Seriously, what's the big deal with having more bloodpoints? I'm starting to think that every killer that disagrees doesn't want survivors to have their own way to gain as much bloodpoints as the killer does with BBQ.
  • Nerex7
    Nerex7 Member Posts: 52

    Or, very freak idea right here, you could play a ton of killer because it earns bloodpoints easier to then spend them on the Survivor gasp

  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @Nickenzie said:
    Wolf74 said:

    @Nickenzie said:

    yeet said:

    killer perks should be straight up stronger than survivor perks, it's 4 perks vs 16
    

    I understand that the killer is the power role but, a bloodpoint perk doesn't make survivors any stronger or any weaker. It's just something to encourage you to do something with a reward. Think of it as Dailies, it doesn't make you any stronger or weaker but it encourages you to do something for a reward.

    Which is wrong. Having more bloodpoints at your disposal means you have more access to high quality items and add ons that you can bring into a match to make you … gasp … "stronger".

    Same thing with the killer, I can just use BBQ and then spend the bloodpoints that I got as a killer on my survivors. Do you wanna nerf BBQ because I can farm Bloodpoints as a killer and then use them on my survivor? Exactly. Seriously, what's the big deal with having more bloodpoints? I'm starting to think that every killer that disagrees doesn't want survivors to have their own way to gain as much bloodpoints as the killer does with BBQ.

    Because killer need more bloodpoints.
    They lose their stuff every match, while survivor can refill their items for free ingame.
    And they can keep their stuff and use it multiple matches.
    And survivor aren't even dependable on items, while a lot of killer really need their add ons to perform decent.

    And don't twist what I said, please.
    I did not mention any nerfs to BBQ, but also a buff to WGLF is not needed and would recreate the problems that we faced when WGLF was introduced.
    Enjoy the long waiting times.

  • Chi
    Chi Member Posts: 781

    My main issue with We're gonna farm forever is when a killer sucks donkey ass, and can barely get people downed, so I can get 1 stack at most, and then have to leave the game.

    You can't have a good game as a survivor and still get stacks, while as a killer hooking the survivors is part of your objective, and not that hard. When I play as killer, I get 3 stacks at least. As a survivor I am lucky if I get 2 stacks. Which is why I prefer playing killer, because BBQ helps me find people, and it is easy to get stacks. We're gonna farm forever... rarely gives me a stack, and a lot of times is a wasted perk slot.

  • Chi
    Chi Member Posts: 781

    @Wolf74 said:

    @Nickenzie said:
    Wolf74 said:

    @Nickenzie said:

    yeet said:

    killer perks should be straight up stronger than survivor perks, it's 4 perks vs 16
    

    I understand that the killer is the power role but, a bloodpoint perk doesn't make survivors any stronger or any weaker. It's just something to encourage you to do something with a reward. Think of it as Dailies, it doesn't make you any stronger or weaker but it encourages you to do something for a reward.

    Which is wrong. Having more bloodpoints at your disposal means you have more access to high quality items and add ons that you can bring into a match to make you … gasp … "stronger".

    Same thing with the killer, I can just use BBQ and then spend the bloodpoints that I got as a killer on my survivors. Do you wanna nerf BBQ because I can farm Bloodpoints as a killer and then use them on my survivor? Exactly. Seriously, what's the big deal with having more bloodpoints? I'm starting to think that every killer that disagrees doesn't want survivors to have their own way to gain as much bloodpoints as the killer does with BBQ.

    Because killer need more bloodpoints.
    They lose their stuff every match, while survivor can refill their items for free ingame.
    And they can keep their stuff and use it multiple matches.
    And survivor aren't even dependable on items, while a lot of killer really need their add ons to perform decent.

    And don't twist what I said, please.
    I did not mention any nerfs to BBQ, but also a buff to WGLF is not needed and would recreate the problems that we faced when WGLF was introduced.
    Enjoy the long waiting times.

    Even if WGLF gets buffed, killers would still get more points? A survivor gets 15k the same match a killer gets 25-30k.

  • Nerex7
    Nerex7 Member Posts: 52

    @Chi said:
    My main issue with We're gonna farm forever is when a killer sucks donkey ass, and can barely get people downed, so I can get 1 stack at most, and then have to leave the game.

    You can't have a good game as a survivor and still get stacks, while as a killer hooking the survivors is part of your objective, and not that hard. When I play as killer, I get 3 stacks at least. As a survivor I am lucky if I get 2 stacks. Which is why I prefer playing killer, because BBQ helps me find people, and it is easy to get stacks. We're gonna farm forever... rarely gives me a stack, and a lot of times is a wasted perk slot.

    That's exactly the reason why I started this thread to begin with: BBQ is part of your objective anyways, if you have a normal game you will have stacks, no matter what. If the game goes really well, you will have maximum stacks.

    If a Survivors game goes normal, or even perfect, he will probably have 0 stacks. Because someone being hooked and you getting the safe is going out of your way a lot.

  • xxaggieboyxx
    xxaggieboyxx Member Posts: 498
    The title on its own is stupid. Killer perks are supposed to be superior. Not only because survivors can bring 4 of it but because the killer is supposed to be stronger... I would agree with any change that makes it more of a quality of life change like different ways to get stacks but any of this that gives it another advantage is stupid(no offense) 
  • DeadByFlashlight
    DeadByFlashlight Member Posts: 1,642

    Make it easier for survivors to gain BP and the only advantage to play killer is gone.

    Now guess how that would affect the queues (btw, this was the reason why BBQ was introduced back in the days, to get more killers again )

  • Nerex7
    Nerex7 Member Posts: 52

    @xxaggieboyxx said:
    The title on its own is stupid. Killer perks are supposed to be superior. Not only because survivors can bring 4 of it but because the killer is supposed to be stronger... I would agree with any change that makes it more of a quality of life change like different ways to get stacks but any of this that gives it another advantage is stupid(no offense) 

    Superior in power - maybe.

    But the point gain on WGLF is just atrociously bad. No reason to take that perk. That was what I was refering to. The token gain is just incredibly unbalanced - for one side it is something very natural. For the other side, it is going out of their way. Not really that cool.

  • Nerex7
    Nerex7 Member Posts: 52

    @DeadByFlashlight said:
    Make it easier for survivors to gain BP and the only advantage to play killer is gone.

    Now guess how that would affect the queues (btw, this was the reason why BBQ was introduced back in the days, to get more killers again )

    Now that comment is one of the most ridiculous things I have read on this forum so far. You will still gain a shitton more points than Survivors. I was just refering to making the tokens easier to obtain, as it is pretty stupid to only get the full tokens in what? 1 out of 4 or 5 games without going WAY out of your way?

    BBQ was NEVER introduced to "fix queues" (unless you can provide solid proof for this claim). The mechanic of it was to follow an anti-tunnel playstyle (hook different survivors instead of only 1) to be then rewarded for it (25% for each unique hook).

  • MhhBurgers
    MhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,758

    You already get to keep your addons. In theory you could easily get a 10k match without escaping and IF you escape you get to keep your items which would amount to up to 12k bloodpoints. If you pack in a farmbuild with WGLF, finding chests and the perk from ace that lets you get rare addons then you get similar BP to what a killer makes if he hooks every survivor at least once.

  • DeadByFlashlight
    DeadByFlashlight Member Posts: 1,642
    Nerex7 said:

    @DeadByFlashlight said:
    Make it easier for survivors to gain BP and the only advantage to play killer is gone.

    Now guess how that would affect the queues (btw, this was the reason why BBQ was introduced back in the days, to get more killers again )

    Now that comment is one of the most ridiculous things I have read on this forum so far. You will still gain a shitton more points than Survivors. I was just refering to making the tokens easier to obtain, as it is pretty stupid to only get the full tokens in what? 1 out of 4 or 5 games without going WAY out of your way?

    BBQ was NEVER introduced to "fix queues" (unless you can provide solid proof for this claim). The mechanic of it was to follow an anti-tunnel playstyle (hook different survivors instead of only 1) to be then rewarded for it (25% for each unique hook).

    A competent survivor can easily gain the same amount of b, usually around 20k.
    Now if they manage to get the full totems most of the time, you will gain the same bp as you do right now as a killer. However as survivor you don't depend on items and even if you bring some, you keep them after a win.

    Do you remember die times when wglf was strong as he'll?  Everybody played survivor and there were 45 mim queue times.

    It doesn't matter whether you tunnel or not, you only need to hook everyone once and fact is, once you tune led the first game you slowed down the game hard enough in order to play with the other 3 survivors


  • unclevincent
    unclevincent Member Posts: 40

    Killer should earn more because he has the harder job.

  • Nerex7
    Nerex7 Member Posts: 52

    @unclevincent said:
    Killer should earn more because he has the harder job.

    That's a funny comment, especially after mid-chapter.

  • Nerex7
    Nerex7 Member Posts: 52

    @DeadByFlashlight

    The queue times never were that bad. I was one of the people who ran that perk and took a good look at how the BP generation for Survivors was. Never had an issue during the time. The reason for the nerf was that people would just farm others off the hook way too often. There were discussions about changing the token system back then but they went with the obvious band-aid.

    And tunneling? Sorry, but I am the type of killer who tries to enjoy the game without playing that scummy. I will never tunnel, camp or whatever. Call it a handycap but I actually enjoy the game a lot more this way (and I'm getting a lot more points out of games this way).

  • unclevincent
    unclevincent Member Posts: 40

    @Nerex7 said:

    @unclevincent said:
    Killer should earn more because he has the harder job.

    That's a funny comment, especially after mid-chapter.

    Why is it funny?^^ Even after the survivor nerfs it's still absolutely true.
    Btw I am quite certain that BBQ was introduced as anti-camping tool, but having more people play killer because it yields more bloodpoints is definitely a side effect that came with it.

    And for WGLF: have you tried playing without perks at all? Just for fun? If you are good, you won't really have a problem doing so - most games won't go that differently. And that's exactly the difference between killer and survivor: if a killer goes without perks, he/she will have a noticeably worse time than with perks. That's why it's ok that killers get some extra benefits with their perks because they need it.

    I think it's reasonable to let the survivor sacrifice a perk slot for a little more bloodpoints, and I also believe it's fine to have the bp reward discrepancy between k and s.
    Where I feel your pain though is when it comes to grinding in DbD, which I guess is probably why you are frustrated about the less reward for survivors. In that point I'd agree, it takes way too long to actually upgrade your characters, it's ridiculous. I've had the game for almost a year now, have played unspeakable amounts of hours (as I find) and have on average all characters only on prestige 1.5 or so.
    So increasing the overall points earned or reducing bloodweb costs would be nice while keeping the differences.

  • DeadByFlashlight
    DeadByFlashlight Member Posts: 1,642

    @Nerex7 said:
    @DeadByFlashlight

    The queue times never were that bad. I was one of the people who ran that perk and took a good look at how the BP generation for Survivors was. Never had an issue during the time. The reason for the nerf was that people would just farm others off the hook way too often. There were discussions about changing the token system back then but they went with the obvious band-aid.

    And tunneling? Sorry, but I am the type of killer who tries to enjoy the game without playing that scummy. I will never tunnel, camp or whatever. Call it a handycap but I actually enjoy the game a lot more this way (and I'm getting a lot more points out of games this way).

    There is nothing wrong with playing casually. If you wanna take a relaxed game and dont focus on killing, then this is your choice and not scummy at all.

  • Entità
    Entità Member Posts: 1,583
    I read all the thread and, in my honest opinion, you are confusing the character with the actor: the killer is stronger, they are supposed to create anxiety, panic, visceral fear in survivors, and yes, their add-ons are lost after the trial, no matter how it ends, and they need more bloodpoints. All true. But behind killers and survivors there are human people, who play for fun during free time, and to get satisfaction should not be as complex as in real life. Every player can choose how to play and I don't think there should be an incentive to make the killer or the survivor: the game must be balanced, so both parties have equal opportunity to demonstrate their cleverness and, over all, enjoy, and who loves fear, tension, stealth will act as a survivor; who is looking for chase, killings, power, will have the role of a merciless murderer.

    A central element of fun is that the player feels master of the destiny of their character: of course there are casual events, luckiness and team cooperation, but a good player needs to see that their skill is rewarded. WGLF depends too much on fate: if a mate is hooked at the opposite side of the map or commits suicide or play bad, you can be the best survivor of the world, but you will not stack enough. Instead, the killer's endgame is the result of their means and skill. I prefer to face a killer with Ebany Mori and have a really horror game, even losing, than to see that gaining bloodpoints with WGLF is as random as finding some money on the street.

    So there are two ways:
    1) add new altruistic actions in the perk mechanics; or
    2) increase the stack and the maximum of the perk.

    Killers have all the right to earn more than survivors, but every player has the right to enjoy with their means and without exceptional luck.
  • Entità
    Entità Member Posts: 1,583
    edited October 2018
    For example:
    1) healing a mate hurt or in dying state, unhooking or protecting others could all be stackable;

    OR

    2) every unhook or protection could give 37,5% BP bonus, within a maximum of 150% BP bonus.

    Which one do you prefer?
  • DemonDaddy
    DemonDaddy Member Posts: 4,167
    I don't think they need to be equal. Killer has to hunt, chase, down and hook to get 1. Survivor has to wait until a teammate gets downed and go for the save. Granted the a save is dangerous, its no where close to the work of hooking.
  • Entità
    Entità Member Posts: 1,583
    I don't think they need to be equal. Killer has to hunt, chase, down and hook to get 1. Survivor has to wait until a teammate gets downed and go for the save. Granted the a save is dangerous, its no where close to the work of hooking.
    It's not equal: with BBQ, the killer gets extra points AND read the Auras; while WGLF grants only extra points to survivors.

    Have you read my proposals to change WGLF, to make it more effective?
  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Nerex7 said:
    Or, very freak idea right here, you could play a ton of killer because it earns bloodpoints easier to then spend them on the Survivor gasp

    You do realized you inadvertently pointed out proof as to why the people asking for more survivor points are right.... right?

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @DeadByFlashlight said:
    Nerex7 said:

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    Make it easier for survivors to gain BP and the only advantage to play killer is gone.

    Now guess how that would affect the queues (btw, this was the reason why BBQ was introduced back in the days, to get more killers again )

    Now that comment is one of the most ridiculous things I have read on this forum so far. You will still gain a shitton more points than Survivors. I was just refering to making the tokens easier to obtain, as it is pretty stupid to only get the full tokens in what? 1 out of 4 or 5 games without going WAY out of your way?

    BBQ was NEVER introduced to "fix queues" (unless you can provide solid proof for this claim). The mechanic of it was to follow an anti-tunnel playstyle (hook different survivors instead of only 1) to be then rewarded for it (25% for each unique hook).

    A competent survivor can easily gain the same amount of b, usually around 20k.
    Now if they manage to get the full totems most of the time, you will gain the same bp as you do right now as a killer. However as survivor you don't depend on items and even if you bring some, you keep them after a win.

    Do you remember die times when wglf was strong as he'll?  Everybody played survivor and there were 45 mim queue times.

    It doesn't matter whether you tunnel or not, you only need to hook everyone once and fact is, once you tune led the first game you slowed down the game hard enough in order to play with the other 3 survivors

    All the killer’s complaining about lobby times if WGLF is buffed are insane! 1) were asking for easier tokens, not more. 2) killers are currently having absolute ass queue times EVERY SINGLE FREAKIN EVENT, there IS NOT ENOUGH SURVIVORS. 3) WGLF gives 1/4 the survivor team more points, bbq is the whole team. The stupid 1/4 philosophy can’t be twisted and turned any way one of us wants. Quit using it, it’s bullshit. It’s only applicable to actual math where it effects everyone. WGLF gives points to ONE SURVIVOR. DS GIVES TIME TO EVERY SURVIVOR FOR EACH USE

  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @Jack11803 said:

    All the killer’s complaining about lobby times if WGLF is buffed are insane! 1) were asking for easier tokens, not more. 2) killers are currently having absolute ass queue times EVERY SINGLE FREAKIN EVENT, there IS NOT ENOUGH SURVIVORS. 3) WGLF gives 1/4 the survivor team more points, bbq is the whole team. The stupid 1/4 philosophy can’t be twisted and turned any way one of us wants. Quit using it, it’s bullshit. It’s only applicable to actual math where it effects everyone. WGLF gives points to ONE SURVIVOR. DS GIVES TIME TO EVERY SURVIVOR FOR EACH USE

    lol
    There is not enough survivor"? Are you kidding me? It's the matchmaking that is broken/bugged.
    There is a frickin lot of survivor, but killer do not get lobbies anyway.
    It's a technical issue.
    And there ist no "killer complaining about lobbies". We just point out that survivor will start complaining about lobbies (again) if WGLF gets buffed.
    But yea, enjoy shooting yourself in the knee.^^

    WGLF got nerfed to solve a SURVIVOR ISSUE.
    But you choose to ignore that.

  • Entità
    Entità Member Posts: 1,583
    Entità said:
    For example:
    1) healing a mate hurt or in dying state, unhooking or protecting others could all be stackable;

    OR

    2) every unhook or protection could give 37,5% BP bonus, within a maximum of 150% BP bonus.

    Which one do you prefer?
    @Wolf74 Do you really think any of my proposals could ruin matchmaking, because an epidemic bloodlust would determine a big majority of players to act as survivors? I've not written: "You will earn 10,000 BP for every save"! O.o
  • Dreamnomad
    Dreamnomad Member Posts: 3,959

    @MhhBurgers said:
    You already get to keep your addons. In theory you could easily get a 10k match without escaping and IF you escape you get to keep your items which would amount to up to 12k bloodpoints. If you pack in a farmbuild with WGLF, finding chests and the perk from ace that lets you get rare addons then you get similar BP to what a killer makes if he hooks every survivor at least once.

    Your logic is just.... hmmm... I'm trying really hard to think of a word that isn't too insulting. Wrong. Let's go with wrong. I've run tests before on how much bloodpoints I get on a killer with BBQ vs a survivor with WGLF and the results are disgusting.

    Anyone that wants to claim that there is any semblance of balance in bloodpoints gained between survivors and killers, I would ask to take the following challenge. Play 20 games as a killer running BBQ. Then play 20 games as a survivor running WGLF. Record the lobby wait times, game times, and total bloodpoints earned for all games. Offerings should have same impact on both sides. No sandbagging. Post the results.

  • MhhBurgers
    MhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,758

    "No sandbagging". There, if you don't want to farm it's your deal. on my survivors I will do unsafe unhooks on purpose, after max BP i leave the game, the BP/hour ratio is basically the same if you cheese

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Wolf74 said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    All the killer’s complaining about lobby times if WGLF is buffed are insane! 1) were asking for easier tokens, not more. 2) killers are currently having absolute ass queue times EVERY SINGLE FREAKIN EVENT, there IS NOT ENOUGH SURVIVORS. 3) WGLF gives 1/4 the survivor team more points, bbq is the whole team. The stupid 1/4 philosophy can’t be twisted and turned any way one of us wants. Quit using it, it’s bullshit. It’s only applicable to actual math where it effects everyone. WGLF gives points to ONE SURVIVOR. DS GIVES TIME TO EVERY SURVIVOR FOR EACH USE

    lol
    There is not enough survivor"? Are you kidding me? It's the matchmaking that is broken/bugged.
    There is a frickin lot of survivor, but killer do not get lobbies anyway.
    It's a technical issue.
    And there ist no "killer complaining about lobbies". We just point out that survivor will start complaining about lobbies (again) if WGLF gets buffed.
    But yea, enjoy shooting yourself in the knee.^^

    WGLF got nerfed to solve a SURVIVOR ISSUE.
    But you choose to ignore that.

    You’re absolutely delusional if you think making WGLF tokens easier to get (so you actually reach 100%) will hurt lobby’s.

  • cTrix
    cTrix Member Posts: 122

    Didn't read this thread but We're gonna live forever used to be much more powerful and was made into the near useless state that it is now on purpose. The reason for this being that survivors don't need encouragement to farm their team mates. While BBQ actively encourages not camping a hook.

  • CornChip
    CornChip Member Posts: 540

    Lol entitled survivor mains always wanting buffs.. Newsflash.. Your already OP

  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @Entità said:
    Entità said:

    For example:

    1) healing a mate hurt or in dying state, unhooking or protecting others could all be stackable;

    OR

    2) every unhook or protection could give 37,5% BP bonus, within a maximum of 150% BP bonus.

    Which one do you prefer?

    @Wolf74 Do you really think any of my proposals could ruin matchmaking, because an epidemic bloodlust would determine a big majority of players to act as survivors? I've not written: "You will earn 10,000 BP for every save"! O.o

    It's not about what I think, it's about what happend when WGLF was better.
    It already happend before and that was the reason WGLF got nerfed to it's current state.
    It's not "believing", it's just experience.

  • Entità
    Entità Member Posts: 1,583
    Wolf74 said:

    @Entità said:
    Entità said:

    For example:

    1) healing a mate hurt or in dying state, unhooking or protecting others could all be stackable;

    OR

    2) every unhook or protection could give 37,5% BP bonus, within a maximum of 150% BP bonus.

    Which one do you prefer?

    @Wolf74 Do you really think any of my proposals could ruin matchmaking, because an epidemic bloodlust would determine a big majority of players to act as survivors? I've not written: "You will earn 10,000 BP for every save"! O.o

    It's not about what I think, it's about what happend when WGLF was better.
    It already happend before and that was the reason WGLF got nerfed to it's current state.
    It's not "believing", it's just experience.

    Between black and white there is grey: 200% is excessive, 100% is not enough, so 150% may be proportionate and balanced. Or, alternatevely, devs could make this 100% effective and not simply hypothetical, by making healing other people stackable.
  • Entità
    Entità Member Posts: 1,583
    CornChip said:

    Lol entitled survivor mains always wanting buffs.. Newsflash.. Your already OP

    False. In a vast majority of trials, the killer sacrifices all survivors. And we are not talking about a more powerful survivor in game, but just not to force the player behind a survivor to wait months to develop their preferred characters.
  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @CornChip said:
    Lol entitled survivor mains always wanting buffs.. Newsflash.. Your already OP

    “Help! This survivor is making equal pay! They sky is falling!”

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Entità said:
    Wolf74 said:

    @Entità said:

    Entità said:

    For example:
    
    1) healing a mate hurt or in dying state, unhooking or protecting others could all be stackable;
    
    OR
    
    2) every unhook or protection could give 37,5% BP bonus, within a maximum of 150% BP bonus.
    
    Which one do you prefer?
    

    @Wolf74 Do you really think any of my proposals could ruin matchmaking, because an epidemic bloodlust would determine a big majority of players to act as survivors? I've not written: "You will earn 10,000 BP for every save"! O.o

    It's not about what I think, it's about what happend when WGLF was better.

    It already happend before and that was the reason WGLF got nerfed to it's current state.

    It's not "believing", it's just experience.

    Between black and white there is grey: 200% is excessive, 100% is not enough, so 150% may be proportionate and balanced. Or, alternatevely, devs could make this 100% effective and not simply hypothetical, by making healing other people stackable.

    You think he’ll accept that idea? He rejected making the 100% more consistent, he’s insane. 150% could actually cause issues.

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Wolf74 said:

    @Entità said:
    Entità said:

    For example:

    1) healing a mate hurt or in dying state, unhooking or protecting others could all be stackable;

    OR

    2) every unhook or protection could give 37,5% BP bonus, within a maximum of 150% BP bonus.

    Which one do you prefer?

    @Wolf74 Do you really think any of my proposals could ruin matchmaking, because an epidemic bloodlust would determine a big majority of players to act as survivors? I've not written: "You will earn 10,000 BP for every save"! O.o

    It's not about what I think, it's about what happend when WGLF was better.
    It already happend before and that was the reason WGLF got nerfed to it's current state.
    It's not "believing", it's just experience.

    More consistent 100% is not a buff back to 200%. You’re being ridiculous

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @cTrix said:
    Didn't read this thread but We're gonna live forever used to be much more powerful and was made into the near useless state that it is now on purpose. The reason for this being that survivors don't need encouragement to farm their team mates. While BBQ actively encourages not camping a hook.

    WGLF isn’t gonna give tokens for farming. That’s no excuse anymore for the perks problems

  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @Entità said:
    CornChip said:

    Lol entitled survivor mains always wanting buffs.. Newsflash.. Your already OP

    False. In a vast majority of trials, the killer sacrifices all survivors. And we are not talking about a more powerful survivor in game, but just not to force the player behind a survivor to wait months to develop their preferred characters.

    And you get that stats from … where exactly?
    Personal experience?
    May you are just bad and that why you see so many 4ks.
    Sorry, but your claim is pretty bold and not backed up by anything.

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930
    edited October 2018

    @Wolf74 said:

    @Entità said:
    CornChip said:

    Lol entitled survivor mains always wanting buffs.. Newsflash.. Your already OP

    False. In a vast majority of trials, the killer sacrifices all survivors. And we are not talking about a more powerful survivor in game, but just not to force the player behind a survivor to wait months to develop their preferred characters.

    And you get that stats from … where exactly?
    Personal experience?
    May you are just bad and that why you see so many 4ks.
    Sorry, but your claim is pretty bold and not backed up by anything.

    I don’t think he even needs any when the original claim was trying to insinuate making more ways to get WGLF tokens would be OP. That’s just pure logic needed to dismantle it

  • Entità
    Entità Member Posts: 1,583
    edited October 2018
    Wolf74 said:

    @Entità said:
    CornChip said:

    Lol entitled survivor mains always wanting buffs.. Newsflash.. Your already OP

    False. In a vast majority of trials, the killer sacrifices all survivors. And we are not talking about a more powerful survivor in game, but just not to force the player behind a survivor to wait months to develop their preferred characters.

    And you get that stats from … where exactly?
    Personal experience?
    May you are just bad and that why you see so many 4ks.
    Sorry, but your claim is pretty bold and not backed up by anything.


    Are III-50 at rank 2 and hundreds of trials enough for you? Remember that argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy: attacking your opponent, instead of their words, is simply wrong.

    WGLF is a perk to gain more BP: it gives no heal, no enemy's detection, no high speed, no help in game, just bonus points after the end of the trial. It should be useful to the player, not the character in gameplay, so it's a poor perk: if even this simple target is purely hypothetical, then it's nonsense. Isn't that reasonable for you? Are you moved by rage against survivors? The fact many people play as killers to develop their survivors is an evidence something is wrong in gaining BP system. 

    My proposal about WGLF buff is oriented to increase its effectiveness:
    1) healing a mate hurt or in dying state, unhooking or protecting others could all be stackable;
    OR
    2) every unhook or protection could give 37,5% BP bonus, within a maximum of 150% BP bonus.

    Post edited by Entità on
  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959
    edited October 2018

    @Entità said:
    Wolf74 said:

    And you get that stats from … where exactly?

    Personal experience?

    May you are just bad and that why you see so many 4ks.

    Sorry, but your claim is pretty bold and not backed up by anything.

    Are III-50 at rank 2 and hundreds of trials enough for you? Remember that argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy: attacking your opponent, instead of their words, is simply wrong.

    And where is that proof?
    I am III-50 myself, I have prestiged all my killer and all survivor at lvl 50, because survivor are not worth to prestige them.
    I have almost 2400 hours in this game, right now I am rank3 killer, and my experience says you are wrong.
    So there is your claim versus mine, does that prove anything?

    Your talking about ad hominem but use strawmen arguments. rolleyes

  • Entità
    Entità Member Posts: 1,583
    edited October 2018
    @Wolf74 Sorry, in your opinion I would be wrong about what? Strawmen? Where? I'm not attacking you: you can be the best player ever, it's not a personal fight, I don't want it. And "Tu quoque" is a logical fallacy, too.

    You forgot to answer the central argument of my post: I'll rewrite it below.

    WGLF is a perk to gain more BP: it gives no heal, no enemy's detection, no high speed, no help in game, just bonus points after the end of the trial. It should be useful to the player, not the character in gameplay, so it's a poor perk: if even this simple target is purely hypothetical, then it's nonsense. Isn't that reasonable for you? Are you moved by rage against survivors? The fact many people play as killers to develop their survivors is an evidence something is wrong in gaining BP system.

    My proposal about WGLF buff is oriented to increase its effectiveness:
    1) healing a mate hurt or in dying state, unhooking or protecting others could all be stackable;
    OR
    2) every unhook or protection could give 37,5% BP bonus, within a maximum of 150% BP bonus.

    And - I add this now - my proposal should not make the survivors more powerful in game, just survivor's player experience better, more funny. Why do you fight against that purpose? Without satisfied survivors, the game is over for all. If a killer's perk, built to give them only more BP, were useless, I would agree with its buff: why should I ruin players' right to develop their killers within a reasonable time? It's a game, not a war: both parties deserve to have fun. Think about that.

  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @Entità said:
    @Wolf74 Sorry, in your opinion I would be wrong about what? Strawmen? Where? I'm not attacking you: you can be the best player ever, it's not a personal fight, I don't want it. And "Tu quoque" is a logical fallacy, too.

    I just requote your false statement:

    @Entità said:

    False. In a vast majority of trials, the killer sacrifices all survivors.

    This claim is simply wrong. The Devs didn't show any newer stats, but not a single killer was anywhere near a 3k killrati back when the Devs still showed stats.
    And those stats included DCs as kills.
    Most killer are close to 2k per match.
    And those stats had been global across all ranks.
    So in low rank matches you get more kills and in high rank matches you get less kills.
    This is not about balance, but about skill.
    And calling it "the vast majority" is close to a lie.

  • Entità
    Entità Member Posts: 1,583
    @Wolf74 I don't know any statistics: I wrote of my personal experience about hundreds of rank 2 trials on PS4.

    And what's the link between ending game stats and the need of WGLF's more effectiveness? You ignored my arguments about the main theme of this thread.
  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @Entità said:
    @Wolf74 I don't know any statistics: I wrote of my personal experience about hundreds of rank 2 trials on PS4.

    And what's the link between ending game stats and the need of WGLF's more effectiveness? You ignored my arguments about the main theme of this thread.

    I did not ignore any argument, I didn't see one.
    Just some biased personal attack about me hating survivor. shrug