Why BBQ is superior to its Survivor counterpart We Are Gonna Live Forever - and how to change that
Comments
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It's a reasonable doubt, because of your strong opposition to the idea that survivors could have a perk to gain effectively more BP, and nothing else.I wrote my arguments, you your replies, that's it.Other comments by other players?
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Reposting to this thread - in case devs take a minute to read the forums:
BBQ is really 2 perks (aura and points). W'e're Going To Live Forever only awards points for survivor so why not split that BBQ into 2 perks? Or, remove the aura for those already hooked once.
Also, when only survivors are left, it's a bit OP - possibly remove the aura at that point if the above isn't done.
Most killers SAY they only run it for the points so splitting it, or removing the aura for those hooked once should be acceptable to all.
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@Slaymore said:
Reposting to this thread - in case devs take a minute to read the forums:BBQ is really 2 perks (aura and points). W'e're Going To Live Forever only awards points for survivor so why not split that BBQ into 2 perks? Or, remove the aura for those already hooked once.
Also, when only survivors are left, it's a bit OP - possibly remove the aura at that point if the above isn't done.
Most killers SAY they only run it for the points so splitting it, or removing the aura for those hooked once should be acceptable to all.
I love how survivor mains still try to bash a perk that was created to solve THEIR issues.
-Camping
-Tunneling
-Long lobby timesStill they want to nerf a perk that benefits THEM if a killer picks it.
Survivor mains aren't the brightest candles on the cake.
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@Wolf74 said:
@Slaymore said:
Reposting to this thread - in case devs take a minute to read the forums:BBQ is really 2 perks (aura and points). W'e're Going To Live Forever only awards points for survivor so why not split that BBQ into 2 perks? Or, remove the aura for those already hooked once.
Also, when only survivors are left, it's a bit OP - possibly remove the aura at that point if the above isn't done.
Most killers SAY they only run it for the points so splitting it, or removing the aura for those hooked once should be acceptable to all.
I love how survivor mains still try to bash a perk that was created to solve THEIR issues.
-Camping
-Tunneling
-Long lobby timesStill they want to nerf a perk that benefits THEM if a killer picks it.
Survivor mains aren't the brightest candles on the cake.
Provided that I don't think BBQ should be nerfed (just WGLF should be made more effective, as I many times explained before), your "philanthropic view" that BBQ is survivor-sided and the killer chooses it to benefit the survivors and these have to answer "Thank you, good killer" is sincerely absurd: killers use BBQ for their interest, i.e. seeing survivors' Auras ang getting more extra points, not for generous altruism: if that perk were useless for killers and helpful for survivors, all the killers would get rid of it immediately.
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So,
We're gonna live forever is a farming perk for survivors, my idea isn't a buff that would remove that concept, but would make it better, as it's only a simple and small change.BBQ and Chilli has the same farming aspect to it, but requires you to first hook everyone to get the full 100%, so you can see survivors auras outside of 40 metres away from the hook to go and first hook everyone else.
We're Gonna Live Forever only gives you the bonus bloodpoints, so why not give it a little bonus effect to make it easier to get the bonus too? My idea is that you're able to see an injured survivor's aura for 4 seconds whenever they take damage and you hear a sound que so you know to look for the aura if they're within or without a certain range, so they can quickly get over for either a flashlight save or to get close to rescue from the hook for the bloodpoints. Which would make it a more useful perk, as some people only use BBQ and Chilli for the BP stack and some use it only for the aura reading ability.
And I know what most people are thinking, "it's not that hard to get the BP stack." So why not make it harder and more fair for survivors? What i mean by that is, most of the time some survivors will just farm you and then leave just for the BP stack. My idea for a nerf to balance the buff out, is that you only get the BP stack from hook rescues if it was a "Safe Hook Rescue."
The Devs say that BBQ and Chilli was made to also help prevent camping and tunneling, as you need to go get other survivors. I think with these changes it would also help prevent farming as you need to get safe hook rescues.
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@MyNamePete Aside a forum issue has hidden some posts and convinced you to post them many times, it's not probable WGLF will be buffed with reading Auras abilities (a lot of users will say: "Killer's perk must be more powerful than survivors'), nevertheless it should become more effective in its typical function: to give consistent extra points to survivors (and no help in game).I made a proposal about WGLF:1) healing a mate injured or in dying state, unhooking or protecting others could all be stackable;OR2) every unhooking or protection could give 37,5% extra BPs, until a maximum of 150% extra BPs.0
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@Entità said:
@MyNamePete Aside a forum issue has hidden some posts and convinced you to post them many times, it's not probable WGLF will be buffed with reading Auras abilities (a lot of users will say: "Killer's perk must be more powerful than survivors'), nevertheless it should become more effective in its typical function: to give consistent extra points to survivors (and no help in game).I made a proposal about WGLF:
1) healing a mate injured or in dying state, unhooking or protecting others could all be stackable;
OR
2) every unhooking or protection could give 37,5% extra BPs, until a maximum of 150% extra BPs.
Well ill be fine with the healing being part of it, but increasing the stacking amount would be needed as it would be way to easier to get the stacking but too much stacks would be op, so its an e h decision.
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Freeing a mate from killer's shoulder should also be stackable: in other words, every altruistic action is included in my proposal #1.
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I don't know, maybe, just maybe killer perks should be stronger than survivor perks.0
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All the fake arguments that WGLF would not "give an advantage ingame".
Getting more bloodpoints = getting better items from the bloodweb = being able to bring high quality items into every game (especially because survivor can keep them as long as they survive).0 -
Yes, and killers can destroy their glory dreams with Franklin: bye bye Universal Key, Rainbow Map and so on, and no offerings nor add-ons will give back these precious items to the owner. And it's ok, I don't complaint about this.Would it be different if a player got more bloodpoints by playing as a killer and then got from the bloodweb and brought ingame as a survivor high quality items? What's the meaning of forcing people to use these (legal, of course) tricks, instead of letting them gain a good amount of BPs with a perk built only for that purpose (it doesn't give help in game, i.e. has no other effects in gameplay)? What do you earn doing like this? What does the game earn? Nothing, just frustration in developing a character.1
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@Wolf74 said:
All the fake arguments that WGLF would not "give an advantage ingame".
Getting more bloodpoints = getting better items from the bloodweb = being able to bring high quality items into every game (especially because survivor can keep them as long as they survive).I hate every argument made by killers opposed to survivors gaining equal bloodpoints. Every one of those arguments is terrible.
1. Killers deserve more bloodpoints because they have to burn add ons.
2. Survivors deserve less bloodpoints because they have items and can keep them.
3. Blah blah blah blahAll of those arguments are crap. This is the philosophy the game should follow. If I as a player, play equally well as a survivor and a killer then I should be compensated for my time equally. Bloodpoints are bloodpoints. There are no survivor bloodpoints. There are no killer bloodpoints. If I want to earn bloodpoints to improve a survivor then I shouldn't have to play a killer or vise versa.
This game requires 80% of the players in a game to be a survivor. Unless we all want to face ridiculous queue times as a killer then the imbalance of bloodpoints needs to be addressed. Otherwise, every day will be like the mess that this Halloween event has been.
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@Dreamnomad then you know the reasons why killers get more bp on average but you simply dont care. Gotcha then why people should care your opinions?
Tbh I see even survivors, even myself sometimes, get more bp compared to killers, but since we are talking on average the reasons they gave you are satisfying you just don't accept that cuz you feel entitled to earn the same. Won't surprise me I you want an equal 1v1 in a 1v4 game like this at this point1 -
@Malakir said:
@Dreamnomad then you know the reasons why killers get more bp on average but you simply dont care. Gotcha then why people should care your opinions?Tbh I see even survivors, even myself sometimes, get more bp compared to killers, but since we are talking on average the reasons they gave you are satisfying you just don't accept that cuz you feel entitled to earn the same. Won't surprise me I you want an equal 1v1 in a 1v4 game like this at this point
I don't care what you care about. The "reasons" for killers getting more bloodpoints are just petty vindictive whining. There is like this stupid wall between killer and survivor mentality. It seems to obstruct reason. It's like anything "they" get diminishes what "we" get. Break down the wall and eventually you'll realize that we're all playing the same game. Most of the time, I play as a killer. But sometimes I do play as a survivor. And when I do, I want my time spent to be worth it. Right now, it feels like I take a huge hit to bloodpoint gain to hang out with friends.
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It's not necessary nor fair the survivors get the same amount of bloodpoints of the killer, and I don't think that's the point. The point is that WGLF is a perk without any effect but giving more extra BPs, so it's expected to do this job, but it doesn't, because stacks are too random and obtaining 4 tokens is quite rare and difficult, and almost impossible if two or more survivors equip WGLF. It's not necessary to nerf BBQ: instead, it's urgent to make WGLF more effective in its mechanics, as I suggested many times, with a simple proposal, in this and other threads.
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Get informed, the perk as far as I know got needed since gave too much bp and killer switched sides to farm. I might be wrong but as far as I know that's it plus playing mostly a survivor I don't feel that handicapped as you try to make itDreamnomad said:@Malakir said:
@Dreamnomad then you know the reasons why killers get more bp on average but you simply dont care. Gotcha then why people should care your opinions?Tbh I see even survivors, even myself sometimes, get more bp compared to killers, but since we are talking on average the reasons they gave you are satisfying you just don't accept that cuz you feel entitled to earn the same. Won't surprise me I you want an equal 1v1 in a 1v4 game like this at this point
I don't care what you care about. The "reasons" for killers getting more bloodpoints are just petty vindictive whining. There is like this stupid wall between killer and survivor mentality. It seems to obstruct reason. It's like anything "they" get diminishes what "we" get. Break down the wall and eventually you'll realize that we're all playing the same game. Most of the time, I play as a killer. But sometimes I do play as a survivor. And when I do, I want my time spent to be worth it. Right now, it feels like I take a huge hit to bloodpoint gain to hang out with friends.
Btw if you don't care what other people want to say just don't write anything because you could get the same treatment1 -
@Malakir said:
Get informed, the perk as far as I know got needed since gave too much bp and killer switched sides to farm. I might be wrong but as far as I know that's it plus playing mostly a survivor I don't feel that handicapped as you try to make it
Btw if you don't care what other people want to say just don't write anything because you could get the same treatment
I love how you start out your post "get informed" and then immediately follow it up with "as far as I know". If you don't feel handicapped earning bloodpoints as a survivor try the following challenge. Play 20 games as a killer running BBQ. Record the lobby wait time, game time and total bloodpoints earned per match. Then do the same with a survivor running WGLF. Then post the results with the average bloodpoints earned per minute with both. Then come back and tell me how it's fair.
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True, isn't fair since you get more as survivor of you have to wait the lobby time :^)Dreamnomad said:@Malakir said:
Get informed, the perk as far as I know got needed since gave too much bp and killer switched sides to farm. I might be wrong but as far as I know that's it plus playing mostly a survivor I don't feel that handicapped as you try to make it
Btw if you don't care what other people want to say just don't write anything because you could get the same treatment
I love how you start out your post "get informed" and then immediately follow it up with "as far as I know". If you don't feel handicapped earning bloodpoints as a survivor try the following challenge. Play 20 games as a killer running BBQ. Record the lobby wait time, game time and total bloodpoints earned per match. Then do the same with a survivor running WGLF. Then post the results with the average bloodpoints earned per minute with both. Then come back and tell me how it's fair.
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BBQ actively works to promote tunneling and effectivize camping. It makes the issues worse. Killers will go after the injured aura if nobody else is on a generator, and if someone is on a generator, the killer can ensure that at least three people are not doing objectives (4 if the injured survivor doesn’t have self-care or there are two survivors injured). If the killer doesn’t see most if not all the survivors through BBQ’s aura-reading, then that killer is more likely to camp. A camper’s rationale is that by camping, not only the hooked survivor’s time is wasted, but also any rescuer’s time. BBQ is a camper’s dream in that it tells a killer when it’s beneficial not to camp and when it is—it’s next-level camping strategies.Wolf74 said:@Slaymore said:
Reposting to this thread - in case devs take a minute to read the forums:BBQ is really 2 perks (aura and points). W'e're Going To Live Forever only awards points for survivor so why not split that BBQ into 2 perks? Or, remove the aura for those already hooked once.
Also, when only survivors are left, it's a bit OP - possibly remove the aura at that point if the above isn't done.
Most killers SAY they only run it for the points so splitting it, or removing the aura for those hooked once should be acceptable to all.
I love how survivor mains still try to bash a perk that was created to solve THEIR issues.
-Camping
-Tunneling
-Long lobby timesStill they want to nerf a perk that benefits THEM if a killer picks it.
Survivor mains aren't the brightest candles on the cake.
Sure it was meant to solve problems, but the poor implementation exacerbated the issue.
On the main topic:
WGLF should have different requirements for gaining stacks. When a survivor loses 15,000 points (the survivor brought in a broken key with a weaved ring and prayer beads) every match consecutively for a total of 5 matches because they had some bad games, they lose 75,000 points in total, maybe not breaking even if that survivor didn’t get any saves for WGLF stacks. A killer brings in two ultra rares, only costing 14,000 for the same period, and 3-4ks because of the addons, thereby getting every BBQ stack. The killer gains more bp per round than the survivor even with a two tier rarity increase. WGLF is not sufficient.2 -
@Kind_Lemon said:
BBQ actively works to promote tunneling and effectivize camping.
I have a difficult time expressing my emotions about this within the rules of the forum…. so a simple #########? has to be enough.
I had a hard time reading through the rest of the post, because this has basically been burnt into my brain.
How does this statement make any sense??1 -
I could say the same about your statement. What makes BBQ a perk that incentivises not tunnelling and camping when the perk shows the auras of injured survivors along with telling the killer when a survivor is nearby so that the killer can stay near the hook while searching?Wolf74 said:@Kind_Lemon said:
BBQ actively works to promote tunneling and effectivize camping.
I have a difficult time expressing my emotions about this within the rules of the forum…. so a simple #########? has to be enough.
I had a hard time reading through the rest of the post, because this has basically been burnt into my brain.
How does this statement make any sense??
I find it hard to see why you think it doesn’t make camping and tunneling easier and less chancy if the killer decides that’s what they want to do with the perk’s information.
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Survivor bias, if you don't feel entitled to live everytime and pretend to know more than others without even trying to inform yourself you cannot understand him. Neither I do.Wolf74 said:@Kind_Lemon said:
BBQ actively works to promote tunneling and effectivize camping.
I have a difficult time expressing my emotions about this within the rules of the forum…. so a simple #########? has to be enough.
I had a hard time reading through the rest of the post, because this has basically been burnt into my brain.
How does this statement make any sense??
BBQ actively promotes camping, I might tattoo that on my ass2 -
@Kind_Lemon said:
Wolf74 said:@Kind_Lemon said:
BBQ actively works to promote tunneling and effectivize camping.
I have a difficult time expressing my emotions about this within the rules of the forum…. so a simple #########? has to be enough.
I had a hard time reading through the rest of the post, because this has basically been burnt into my brain.
How does this statement make any sense??
I could say the same about your statement. What makes BBQ a perk that incentivises not tunnelling and camping when the perk shows the auras of injured survivors along with telling the killer when a survivor is nearby so that the killer can stay near the hook while searching?
I find it hard to see why you think it doesn’t make camping and tunneling easier and less chancy if the killer decides that’s what they want to do with the perk’s information.
Attacking an injured survivor that is 40+m away is NOT tunneling ROFL.
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Oh no the killer can see u for 4 seconds girl gudNerex7 said:I won't drop a wall of text here. Everyone clicking the title knows the two perks, so I will give short summaries:
BBQ:
- Has a very decent side effect that gives the killer a ton of information
- Scales off of something that, on average, will definitely happen each game. Getting stacks is almost a guaranteed natural thing.
WGLF:
- Has no other effect than points
- Stacks off of situations that aren't that easy to reach. Stacks are not "guaranteed" as only one out of 4 survivors will be allowed to unhook a person and depending on the game, this might never happen. The other option is Protection. Either take a hit for a mate directly, or eat one when he's being carried around. This makes it a rather situational perk.
- It once was a lot better (and capped at 200%, meaning 50% per stack so even 2 stacks could give you a 100% more points)
The problem: The 200% increased points caused people to farm others off the hook. You know how that goes, unhook, killer will eventually down him again, unhook him once more. Easy points, horrible game for the other person.
A suggestion:
- Remove Stacks from Unhooks. Add Stacks for Healing one state and for the person wiggling free (everyone who had the protection event in the last 30 seconds gets granted a stack). This would encourage people to help carried survivors and make sure they're actually fine after saving them.
EDIT: Self Care is excluded from this action. Stacks will only be granted on healing others.
Bring back it's old form and/or add a positive side effect, such as a little boost for healing others (Not on the level of We'll Make it but enough to be a nice side effect). There also could be an effect that works contrary to the killers perk, while he can see you from a certain distance with BBQ - the survivor (rescuer and unhooked one) could be allowed to see the killer if X meters away, which would allow the perk to give valuable information similar to BBQ.
Positive meta side effect of such changes: "Savior" perk layouts would be more rewarding to play.
F* it, I lied. It is a wall of text now. I hope some of you made it through. Feel free to give your own ideas.
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@Wolf74 said:
I did not ignore any argument, I didn't see one.
Just some biased personal attack about me hating survivor. shrugWell there was a second point he made that WAS NOT a personal attack. All because you didn’t see it, doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. Go back and read.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
Wolf74 said:@Slaymore said:
Reposting to this thread - in case devs take a minute to read the forums:
BBQ is really 2 perks (aura and points). W'e're Going To Live Forever only awards points for survivor so why not split that BBQ into 2 perks? Or, remove the aura for those already hooked once. Also, when only survivors are left, it's a bit OP - possibly remove the aura at that point if the above isn't done.
Most killers SAY they only run it for the points so splitting it, or removing the aura for those hooked once should be acceptable to all.
I love how survivor mains still try to bash a perk that was created to solve THEIR issues.
-Camping
-Tunneling
-Long lobby times
Still they want to nerf a perk that benefits THEM if a killer picks it.
Survivor mains aren't the brightest candles on the cake.
BBQ actively works to promote tunneling and effectivize camping. It makes the issues worse. Killers will go after the injured aura if nobody else is on a generator, and if someone is on a generator, the killer can ensure that at least three people are not doing objectives (4 if the injured survivor doesn’t have self-care or there are two survivors injured). If the killer doesn’t see most if not all the survivors through BBQ’s aura-reading, then that killer is more likely to camp. A camper’s rationale is that by camping, not only the hooked survivor’s time is wasted, but also any rescuer’s time. BBQ is a camper’s dream in that it tells a killer when it’s beneficial not to camp and when it is—it’s next-level camping strategies.
Sure it was meant to solve problems, but the poor implementation exacerbated the issue.
On the main topic:
WGLF should have different requirements for gaining stacks. When a survivor loses 15,000 points (the survivor brought in a broken key with a weaved ring and prayer beads) every match consecutively for a total of 5 matches because they had some bad games, they lose 75,000 points in total, maybe not breaking even if that survivor didn’t get any saves for WGLF stacks. A killer brings in two ultra rares, only costing 14,000 for the same period, and 3-4ks because of the addons, thereby getting every BBQ stack. The killer gains more bp per round than the survivor even with a two tier rarity increase. WGLF is not sufficient.Gonna adress this? It seems when someone makes a point that actually works, and goes through your points, you seem to conveniently not see it.
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@Jack11803 said:
Gonna adress this? It seems when someone makes a point that actually works, and goes through your points, you seem to conveniently not see it.
I just don't agree on his point of view.
I understand his points, I just don't think they matter, because they are weak.
Seeing a new target in the distance is still a good reason to go hunt, knowing nothing is always a good reason to stay. So the pro outweights the con. The killer can actively decide to go for a halfway asured new chase and accept the unhook, but if he just expect someone near with no new target as an option, he would stay anyway.
So no, I don't ignore it or "not see it", the argument is just not that strong.1 -
@Wolf74 said:
@Jack11803 said:
Gonna adress this? It seems when someone makes a point that actually works, and goes through your points, you seem to conveniently not see it.
I just don't agree on his point of view.
I understand his points, I just don't think they matter, because they are weak.
Seeing a new target in the distance is still a good reason to go hunt, knowing nothing is always a good reason to stay. So the pro outweights the con. The killer can actively decide to go for a halfway asured new chase and accept the unhook, but if he just expect someone near with no new target as an option, he would stay anyway.
So no, I don't ignore it or "not see it", the argument is just not that strong.Those weren’t the points. The points, were regarding bloddooint gain, and why survivors should get a buff to it with just base bloodpoints or WGLF. Not how effective BBQ is in the meta
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@Jack11803 said:
@Wolf74 said:
@Jack11803 said:
Gonna adress this? It seems when someone makes a point that actually works, and goes through your points, you seem to conveniently not see it.
I just don't agree on his point of view.
I understand his points, I just don't think they matter, because they are weak.
Seeing a new target in the distance is still a good reason to go hunt, knowing nothing is always a good reason to stay. So the pro outweights the con. The killer can actively decide to go for a halfway asured new chase and accept the unhook, but if he just expect someone near with no new target as an option, he would stay anyway.
So no, I don't ignore it or "not see it", the argument is just not that strong.Those weren’t the points. The points, were regarding bloddooint gain, and why survivors should get a buff to it with just base bloodpoints or WGLF. Not how effective BBQ is in the meta
You call THAT his point??
Survivor get enough points, why should they get boosted even more?
Good survivor can get more points than the killer already.
If other survivor can't, than they might be not as good survivor as they think they are.
Survivor can use their items multiple games and can even stock up their stuff through chests.
Survivor are just skins and you don't need to level up every survivor.
The only time that slows survivors point genereation down is waiting for their SWF buddies if they get killed early.1 -
Briefly skimming through the posts I see there is a lot of vitriol between people here. I've only been playing the game for a few weeks and got Killer rank 1 already (to my dismay) and survivor rank 8, I enjoy both, and I understand why BBQ'n'Chilli and WGLF exist how they do now. However, there does exist two vital differences between them, one of which is innate and the other is situational. The innate difference is that BBQ'n'Chilli actually has a secondary (its Aura reading) use aside from points while WGLF does not. The situational difference is that BBQ'n'Chilli uses a main objective to stack points (hooking a Survivor) while WGLF uses two highly situational objectives (rescuing a hooked teammate or body blocking for them). This has often led to a lot of body blocking plays that I've seen at the exit gate simply to raise their stacks while they refuse to escape.
The way to fix these issues is rather simple however; Have WGLF's stacks come from main objectives as well. Giving 15% bonus BP at the end of the match for each generator completed (15 * 5 = 75) as well as a 25% bonus for having powered an exit gate. This accumulates to a 100% bonus BP gain, assuming you lived all the way to the end anyhow, and would eliminate the pointless body blocking exercises just for stacks. If someone dies during the game they would get however many generators were done/the exit gate being powered when they died, so if 3/5 gens were done they would get 45% bonus BP. As for the secondary use, someone had pointed out that the probable or explicit reason BBQ'n'Chilli has that use is to promote hunting down other targets and not camping/tunneling. Good in theory, not always effective.
Ideally though, as the game moves forward, these two perks should become innate effects for Killers and Survivors rather than a perk. There are simply far too many characters to level up at this point and that number will only ever increase. Exp bonuses will be sorely needed more than ever then going forward. It also locks 1/4 perks for either side to being those boosters lest every game you play be only half the value it could be when speaking efficiency.
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@Jack11803 said:
Give it tokens for cleansing totems and gens. Lowers necessity to farm. Encourages the punishment of campers if unhooking is hard (main reason campers win, is they take hold of the WGLF stack possibilities) and preventing NOED. Those 2 are really the only additions it needs. That and a freakin fix to the disgustingly buggy protection and reunion score events.I get gens but not totems. Totems are a waste of time that people only do for points. If dull totems didn't exist, gens would be done alot faster
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@Aerys said:
Briefly skimming through the posts I see there is a lot of vitriol between people here. I've only been playing the game for a few weeks and got Killer rank 1 already (to my dismay) and survivor rank 8, I enjoy both, and I understand why BBQ'n'Chilli and WGLF exist how they do now. However, there does exist two vital differences between them, one of which is innate and the other is situational. The innate difference is that BBQ'n'Chilli actually has a secondary (its Aura reading) use aside from points while WGLF does not. The situational difference is that BBQ'n'Chilli uses a main objective to stack points (hooking a Survivor) while WGLF uses two highly situational objectives (rescuing a hooked teammate or body blocking for them). This has often led to a lot of body blocking plays that I've seen at the exit gate simply to raise their stacks while they refuse to escape.The way to fix these issues is rather simple however; Have WGLF's stacks come from main objectives as well. Giving 15% bonus BP at the end of the match for each generator completed (15 * 5 = 75) as well as a 25% bonus for having powered an exit gate. This accumulates to a 100% bonus BP gain, assuming you lived all the way to the end anyhow, and would eliminate the pointless body blocking exercises just for stacks. If someone dies during the game they would get however many generators were done/the exit gate being powered when they died, so if 3/5 gens were done they would get 45% bonus BP. As for the secondary use, someone had pointed out that the probable or explicit reason BBQ'n'Chilli has that use is to promote hunting down other targets and not camping/tunneling. Good in theory, not always effective.
Ideally though, as the game moves forward, these two perks should become innate effects for Killers and Survivors rather than a perk. There are simply far too many characters to level up at this point and that number will only ever increase. Exp bonuses will be sorely needed more than ever then going forward. It also locks 1/4 perks for either side to being those boosters lest every game you play be only half the value it could be when speaking efficiency.
And since you are new to the game, you obviously do not know or understand the WHY behind the changes of these perks.
WGLF was nerfed and BBQ has been buffed, to balance the game.
It worked well and do not want to go back the old versions, that would create old problems1 -
I am aware they were nerfed and buffed, and I'm not saying to change them back (From what I understand WGLF gave a healing buff and such?). If you read my post I don't advocate for anything of the sort, so what point are you trying to make while using me as a strawman?
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@Aerys said:
I am aware they were nerfed and buffed, and I'm not saying to change them back (From what I understand WGLF gave a healing buff and such?). If you read my post I don't advocate for anything of the sort, so what point are you trying to make while using me as a strawman?See? You do know nothing Aerys Snow. WGLF never had an ingame effect, it was always about the bloodpoints.
It got nerfed, because if screwed the lobbies, because to many player switched to play survivor.
Survivor got a crapton of bloodpoints with it and killer have been even weaker to play as of now.
And BBQ got buffed to fix survivor issues, the said long lobby times and to lessen camping and tunneling.
These perks are basically balanced now in their current form.
Survivor can afford to waste a perk slot for bloodpoint gain alone, but killer need efficient perks that really help them during the trial.1 -
Oh, I agree with all that though. From what I was told WGLF had a 200% cap and you got 50% per action, and that it had a healing buff in there too, so obviously that had to be nerfed (even if it was just 50% with a 200% cap), and I like BBQ'n'Chilli as it is right now. I'm simply saying that the methods in which WGLF stacks are obtained are crappy and that if they were changed to be main objectives rather than situational ones the perk would flow a lot better in terms of gameplay, there's no reason to give it an additional use unless you're going to also buff BBQ'n'Chilli in some way as well.
As far as perks go though they're kind of garbage, they don't change gameplay too much/at all aside from purposely trying to farm stacks, and that's why I believe they should be scrapped as perks and made into simple gameplay mechanics everyone has every game, especially due to the rising amount of Survivors and Killers there are to level up. As a new player I've only P1'd Wraith and Bill so far and have some levels here and there in only a few other characters, the amount of playing I'd need to do to level the entire cast and crew up is pretty much unobtainable, as most of my BP came from the Halloween event.
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@Aerys I wrote a proposal about WGLF:
1) every altruistic action (healing, unhooking, bodyblocking, freeing from killer's grasp...) are stackable, without changing the bonus nor the maximum;
OR
2) every stack grants 37,5% extra BP, within a maximum of 150%, but perk mechanics are preserved (only unhooking and bodyblocking stack).
Instead, BBQ doesn't need any buff nor nerf: it's balanced.
What do you think?Of course, there is another solution, suggested by @Peanits: "Remove BP from WGLF and BBQ. Make them baseline. Give WGLF a new effect. BBQ is a perfectly good perk as is, putting bloodpoints on it just makes it super meta. This gives people the freedom to switch up their loadouts without sacrificing bloodpoints.", and I personally agree.
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If you heal someone else an entire health state then maybe that could count as a stack, but only the health restored via yourself would count (so three people healing one dude wouldn't each get a stack out of it, only 1/3 of a stack) but that could also encourage players to go take a hit before escaping the Killer (Or more likely the Killer giving up due to inane looping), and then have their friends heal them for stacks. Freeing from the Killer's grasp would be a good one to include though, sure as heck is annoying when it's done to me and I feel like it should be worth a stack when done right x3
I don't really care for the 2nd option as it doesn't address the problem with how WGLF is set up and I also don't super like decimals when designing such things either. Overall what Peanits said is what I agree with the most, make the exp perks baseline, that is to say give them to players by default for every game and not as a perk (and I would even go as far as to say that BBQ'n'Chilli's aura reveal be added as a baseline for killer's as well since it promotes hunting over camping), while changing the Perks slightly so that they can still be used.
For instance, Tier III BBQ'n'Chilli could change to hooking a Survivor speeds up the rate at which they "cook" by 25% meaning that teammates need to get there sooner to help them while also applying a burn debuff to the hooked Survivor that lasts until they're healed and causes them to have more difficult skill check zones when it comes to healing themselves/being healed by others. Tier III WGLF on the other hand could change to a body block mechanic in which if they are struck while between the Killer and an Injured Survivor they stun the Killer for X seconds, impairing their vision in some way, and grants the Survivor the benefit of not bleeding or leaving red marks for the stun's duration as they hightail it out of there. The whole perk's theme is about protecting your friends after all, makes sense if you do it right and then get out of there to live forever lol.
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@Wolf74 said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Wolf74 said:
@Jack11803 said:
Gonna adress this? It seems when someone makes a point that actually works, and goes through your points, you seem to conveniently not see it.
I just don't agree on his point of view.
I understand his points, I just don't think they matter, because they are weak.
Seeing a new target in the distance is still a good reason to go hunt, knowing nothing is always a good reason to stay. So the pro outweights the con. The killer can actively decide to go for a halfway asured new chase and accept the unhook, but if he just expect someone near with no new target as an option, he would stay anyway.
So no, I don't ignore it or "not see it", the argument is just not that strong.Those weren’t the points. The points, were regarding bloddooint gain, and why survivors should get a buff to it with just base bloodpoints or WGLF. Not how effective BBQ is in the meta
You call THAT his point??
Survivor get enough points, why should they get boosted even more?
Good survivor can get more points than the killer already.
If other survivor can't, than they might be not as good survivor as they think they are.
Survivor can use their items multiple games and can even stock up their stuff through chests.
Survivor are just skins and you don't need to level up every survivor.
The only time that slows survivors point genereation down is waiting for their SWF buddies if they get killed early.I sure as hell do! You’re literally wrong. Give me proof that survivors make more than killers. You can’t.
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Do a Q&A question for the Devs.
Ask for stats.
I can only stick to my personal experience, which you don't want to believe.
So ask them. I would love to see some stats again.0
