Stop using DS!
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It's funny how killers will complain so much about DS when they have SO many perks that are just a pain to go against. I started using DS lately because honestly I don't wanna be tunneled out of the game in 2 mins.
I've had games where I never even got to use DS and that's completely fine! I've also had games where I didn't get to use DS and the killer still got a 4k without tunneling.
From what I gather most of the killers asking for a DS nerf just don't know how to track survivors which is crazy considering how many tracking perks killers have.
If you're so scared of getting struck by DS, slug them (even if they might have unbreakable at least they're not running around doing objectives), find someone else, go after the person unhooking, if you can't find them patrol gens! That's what I do when I play killer and it works out pretty fine.
You have to keep in mind that there is a reason why you're getting hit by DS.
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Totems are an objective, your rabbit hunting comment doesn't really apply or help your case.
Ruin can still be worked through, so it doesn't completely stop you from doing gens.
But all in all, it's to prevent gen rushing, which is all too common and I'll never understand why.
Why do you que up for a match, just to have it over in 5 minutes? Totems and chests reward points and increase fun.
Imagine no totems or chests, either do gen or get chased? Boring imo.
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you do realize that survivors have a secondary objective and it has been stated by the devs if that secondary objective is not taken care of noed is all on the survivors? well the same is said here... if you don't take ruin and undying out well you're screwed unless you stay on those gens. and you're saying that survivors can't do a secondary objective? wow apparently you are unable to keep track of 5 totems and 5 gens at the same time? killers keep track of 4 survivors and 5 gens. and the survivors are already moving and killers keep track of them quite well. something I do at the begining of every match I find a gen start working, see if ruin is in play if not great if so i keep an eye on totems.
most killers really expect it if they are picking up right after unhook down again. but they don't expect it when they come across the person later after chasing others and doing other things. the devs said that it was the fact that killers had too much time to do other things for the reason behind pop's time reduction, however ds was not even talked about as that one minute is 3/4ths of a gen on your own of safety with tier 3 ds. don't get me wrong, DS is a good perk but so many use it incorrectly by shielding their unhookers, harrassing the killer just to get the ds in, this is what I call the weaponization of the perk. jumping into lockers to force the ds hoping the killer was about to attack and be right at the locker for it. this is such a good way to get the killer to die laughing as if they are a trapper they'll just set a trap outside the locker! hehehhee
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No, DS gives me a chance to enjoy the game.
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The devs would have to know what they're doing because they can't change DS without also changing other things to balance the scales. Considering their design philosophy has been questionable at best even with data sheets I don't have faith they could pull it off.
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imagine not tunneling and still getting hit by ds.
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as if survivors objective couldnt get done way faster than killers objective. imagine not running gen defense perks, in fact lets make an experiment, block all gen regression perks and gen defense in general for i dont know 3 days and lets gather how many 3 o 4 survivors will escape in 5 to 7 minutes per game at rank 1. your statement has no sense. is killers objective stopping survivors from doing gens because if they dont do them they cant escape.- killers cant be in all places at once, he is alone not a team even if its obvious some people needs the explanation, so you run perks that do it for you and still is not that hard to break totems.
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But here's the thing, there will ALWAYS be people that will find some type of loop hole that's just the way it is. There will always be people that will find some way to abuse a certain perk and you can't just base changes on those people because if we're being real i've only had a handful of people jump into lockers.
Now from when I'm playing survivor the timer is usually finished before the killer sees me again. 1minute is really not that long especially if someone else kept the killer busy. It's only long when it comes to end game and you need to hook people to keep survivors from leaving.
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How the {BAD WORD} does ds compare to twinkerer again ?
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Otzdarva, a popular killer streamer, was streaming today and he got hit with DS after starting a chase with another survivor, hitting him, then dropping it to chase *another* where he successfully hit her twice and won the chase and hooked her. Oh but I guess Otz shouldn't have tunneled that poor David and play super toxic.
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Did someone say, "Nerf BBQ & Chili"?
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sure, however having games where you hook 2 players then get dsed by the 3rd because you hooked them 58 seconds ago still shouldn't happen though, they need to figure a way to make you not get punished as if you tunneled when you didn't, saying a blanket answer of "just don't tunnel" isn't the issue in those cases its survivors are invincible because you played too well
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Honestly, I don't think that DS is that oppressive right now. The only things I could see a reasonable argument for is removing the ability to use DS from lockers and possibly shortening the duration. (I will say it is extremely annoying when a survivor just hops in a locker and becomes 'invincible' for 60s... that shouldn't be a feature).
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about every match i go up against a ds wielding survivor and they get unhooked and when i find them again i see them run into a locker when they are full health???!!! tells me they got ds and at that point i wish i was as trapper so that I can just place a trap right infront of the locker so they have to step in it hehehehe This is also after I chased their unhooker and not them, they got healed up and did what ever.
you know your argument about 1 minute not being very long except when you're being chased by the killer.... if that's the case WHY did they use that reasoning to remove 15 seconds from pop goes the weasel? hmmm looks like it's too long to have it stay at 1 minute, perhaps lets reduce each tier by 15 seconds.... maybe tier 1 is only 20 seconds long since 1 minute is tooo long. sarcasm aside, you are correct when the gates are powered and the killer has to keep people on hooks it is a very long time, and egc is 2 minutes long, that's 1/2 the time of egc.... enough to get across red forest, get to the gate and get it open or crawl out an open gate while slugged. it's really in need of tweaking, not a nerf but tweaking so that it can be dealt with and no longer be the only perk without some sort of counter play.
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I only run DS when I have a string of bad games where the killer tunnels. Besides that I never run it, no Mither is clearly 40x better
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I don't quite understand what you were trying to say.
I don't know the reason why they took some time off of Pop but tbh you can still kick a gen even with the time reduction.
Also you're saying that the unhooked survivor has time to heal when you chase the person unhooking. What do you expect them to do? Stay injured? I don't get what point you're trying to make lol.
There's no reason to go back to the hook after every unhook especially since BBQ is a thing, Thrilling Tremors (If i got the right name sometimes I mix it up). There's so many perks available that help you find other survivors that you don't even need to go back to the hook. You can find someone new and keep the ball rolling.
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If that’s the case then maybe it deserves to die. Survivors got out fine before DS existed, they will get out fine if it’s nerfed to the ground.
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first of all the devs stated that the killers could do too much before making use of this perk, including downing survivors, after a chase, then kicking a gen then hooking that downed survivor. now with DS: you get 60 seconds to run around do gens, totems, open chests that if the killer grabs you they end up getting ds'd. this is the same thing as a killer having too much time to make use of the pop goes the weasel perk.
What I am saying is that if a survivor has time to jump on a gen the perk should no longer be active, if the survivor is in a locker and inner strength is not active it should deactivate, if a survivor is in longer than the inner strength time (plus a second or two to exit) it should deactivate, if the survivor has time to do a totem DS should deactivate. instead people use it to body block and take hits for another they should be moving off and healing to get back in the game, also if they start healing someone DS should deactivate. make it so that you can't get 60 seconds of immunity to do anything you want then i'm fine with it.
I don't go back to the hook after every unhook, but if i'm not in a chase and the unhook is semi-close, you bet your butt I'm going back, 1) get rid of BT and 2) go get the survivor doing the unhook. if i follow scratch marks and i can't see who left them well i can't give up just because i found the same one unhooked but i prefer to find the unhooker. now as I said i don't always go back because if i'm in a chase I keep on the one i'm on unless i get the idea they will run me for a long time, then i'm off. it's situational, and I agree DS has a place but it shouldn't be so powerful that i can hook three other people and still get ds'd.
BTW you will note i did not say that it should shut off if the survivor is being healed, only if they themselves were healing others.
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You are not being tunneled if you are doing your objectives.
DS is a great anti tunnel perk when it works like that, not abusively which is the way people use it.
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I will once tunneling gets addressed. I rather use perks I enjoy like deception but can't cause I'm forced to run these perks like ds
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Just eat it? If you can't take the five second stun you were going to lose anyways. It's main use is for EGC saves. Make them use it prior or die.
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Camping and Tunnelling literally make you lose the game, if you get camped then you're literally winning the game for your team, and same for tunnelling (if you're bad at chase, that's your own flaws most of the time - unless the RNG is bad - but you're still allowing your team to safely do gens and get out). Sure, both camping and tunnelling are scummy things, but they're player actions that cause the killer to lose the game in the end. They're not a mechanic directly applied into the game that can be abused to all hell, which DS is.
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Ahh yes, because being tunnelled immediately off hook (which is what happens in every game there isn't an obsession) totally means you're just a bad player that isn't relying on their second chance perks because everyone has taken them off.
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I don't use DS. Still Red ranks without big problems. You know why? Because I don't make my myself a target after getting unhooked.
If I get "tunneled" it's usually because I got hookfarmed by randoms or I made a rank 20 play. Both are not the killers fault. He shouldn't be punished for that.
DS is a perk that rewards bad plays. Thats the biggest issue.
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nerfing DS would do nothing, it needs a rework
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If not killers have 70% kill rate without ds and tunneling it will be 90-95%. They can’t remove it
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Not everyone who camps and tunnels is doing it because they want to win the game. Regardless, if it didn’t work you wouldn’t see so many people actually relying on these strats if they weren’t working.
The fact that the only viable (if at all) way to counter this built-in ability/mechanic is via a perk slot is simply flawed.
It’s so funny to me how people like to bring up excuses such as “well your team is fixing gens” , “the killer isn’t getting any points”, etc etc which translates to: This is not how you’re meant to play the game. Yet take issue the moment someone even remotely provides a suggestion against camping and tunneling.
Like, I am not blind to the fact that DS can become problematic in very few instances. But it is so minimal in comparison to how brokenly abused the very thing that it is suppose to counter is, in the state of the game today.
Something which again is available from the start of the match and has no downside whatsoever.
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That wouldnt work, because then moonwalking exploits like on old legion would become a thing and killers would just avoid chases. Also you should be able to heal because you can still easily be tunneled whilst healing.
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If your being tunneled off the hook perhaps your teammates should wait for the killer to leave? Your team makes a bad save and you expect the killer to not make use of this mistake? If the killer face camps you to death then you win the match. Provided your team is smart enough to do gens.
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And ruin also
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Ahhh yes, killers don't do anything wrong, killers have never come back to the hook immediately and actively ignored survivors on purpose to tunnel the one off hook, and not to mention, killers cry at SWF and then act as if the person being tunnelled has any say it what a random team mate does.
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I literally never run it, and scummy killers regularly punish me for it, but joke's on them; I still survive the majority of the time.
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ruin was already nerfed into the ground, now you need one or two other perks to support it.
DS is 1) abused more than you say, I've seen streamers abuse it intentionally, 2) DS needs a rework yes, 3) tunneling is not broken, if you're being tunneled as people have said you either made yourself a target intentionally OR you were probably hook farmed during the game.
also the devs have never stated that this perk is anti-tunneling (you said the very thing this perk is designed to counter which implies anti-tunneling but if you meant something else well you weren't very good at expressing that). now camping and tunneling are allowed by the game, you get no points by camping unless a survivor comes in and puts you in a chase AND by standing within 8 meters of a hook you have a negative penalty to the emblem system that making it harder to pip up if you stand around them long enough. Even a quick trap set by trapper or hag will result in a -1 or -2 penalty but that doesn't matter to you because obviously you feel entitled that things that are not against the rules should be treated as if they are.
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So decisive strike doesn’t punish killers for trying to do their objective?
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“If you were tunneled you either made yourself a target or you got hooked farmed” do you even play the game?
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for more than 2500 hours and 2+ years of play so, yes, I've been tunneled yes. but my post stands on it's own and is backed up by someone else in this thread as well, actually I was backing them up because I liked what they had to say. do you play the same game I do? because I rarely get tunneled when I get removed from the hook when the killer isn't around and let me tell you the killers generally come back to the hook after a hook save but I make my self not so much a target and rarely get tunneled unless the killer was right there when i was unhooked.
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Now this is big brain right here.
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Bigger brain would be just following them around cloaked as wraith or something for 30 seconds.
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Bigger Bigger brain just using insidious and having being Cloak in corners.
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We love rational responses. Thank you for responding to that.
The amount of brain cells I lost reading it, let me unable to.
Yep I’m going to make myself a target by just being unable to unhook myself... 😂 what’s next “bring deliverance every game”? 🤣
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I mean, by that logic, Fire Up punishes survivors for doing the objective, so it needs a nerf?
Furthermore, what makes people think it's strickly anti-tunnel? Well, it provides a defensive ability once the survivor is unhooked and picked up within a certain time frame. How is that NOT an anti tunnel perk? Second Wind is also like this, but it's reward costs altruism and surviving the tunnel, at least for a little bit. Old DS was purely anti-momentum, which is a bad design for a perk at all. Momentum comes from one side being significantly better than the other, or by outplaying them to a significant amount. Why would anyone punish that? And let's say for a moment that the DS rework didn't turn into an anti-tunnel perk. It would still be anti-momentum. Imagine a Killer perk that if 2 generators are done within 200 seconds, 1 completed generator goes back to 0% and 2 incompleted generators blow up and start regressing. That's punishing the survivors for being efficient. That is a stupid perk. Anti-momentum is a ######### concept for a perk.
I'm gonna be real: DS should 100% be a base kit mechanic for survivors if they fine tuned it to make it not abusable but also make it better. This is what I always say for a reworked base kit DS
After being unhooked, DS activates. If you are picked up by the Killer while DS is active, immediately stun the Killer for 5 seconds (no skill check) and gain the Haste (7%) status effect for 10 seconds (to make up for the grasp escape animation).
DS has no timer, and is deactivated whenever you work on a gen, heal or get healed 1 health state, sabo, rescue, or cleanse bones. DS also deactivates if the Killer hits or hooks another survivor
DS has infinite uses.
Survivors with DS active have a special icon over their health state. This is only visible to survivors
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Meanwhile survivors are free to be in a 4 man swf with one rank 20 to get matched with brand new killer players. They bring flashlights and teabag at every chance they get. All run DS+UB+Adren+DH and one of them brings a key. Then they say "GG EZ" in the end game chat and wonder why there aren't many people playing killer. Yet that's all fair because survivors are the ones buying the most cosmetics so they don't get told how to play.
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Theyre not invincible you can hit them and leave them there. Stop making ######### up.
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Bud, more often than not the killer will hit the survivor doing the unhook first to avoid wasting time from a bt save. Use that opportunity to use your exhaustion like sb to get to a pallet (most maps are survivor sided and have no shortage of them). But even if do get downed after being farmed, just use ds. The devs only planning on removing the abusive part of ds, so you'll still be able to use if your actually being tunnelled. But I've seen you complain about pop like an entitled survivor main, so no surprise your doing it with ds with poor attempts at gas lighting people. Now I see why I've seen streamers express their dislike for you.
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yes i'll use my exhaustion perks that I don't run.
I'm a killer wet dream, I don't run the meta perks and they just tunnel and insta kill me, showing that they're mostly mandatory to stop killers tunneling and killing off hook :)
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Ahh the old "change the entire topic of discussion to something completely irrelevant because my point that I was originally trying to make holds no water"
I'm not going to have a discussion with someone that wont admit they're wrong, or at least biased and instead moves the goal post, this is something you do constantly, you're honestly an incredibly biased commenter on the forums so there really is no point in talking to you any further, have a wonderful day.
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That's a you problem then. Learn to loop better and stop going down so fast :). I recommend running the perk windows of opportunely to help with you poor looping skills. :)
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Pot meet kettle. You do nothing but show your complete survivors bias, and just gas light anyone who replies to you instead of having a normal debate.
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They also tried to prevent future debates by adding "Have a wonderful day" which is a cheap way of trying to have the last word. When your losing an argument you try to shut down the topic.
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Im main surv and I never use DS, but DS needs a rework, making it less abusable, but more powerfull vs tunnelers.
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