Ebony and Ivory Memento Moris now require the targeted survivor to have been hooked twice

ok so the killer had an ability to hook and kill. Why limit that? Obviously its strong, just like 4 dead hards 4 decisive strikes and 4 exhaustion perks. But u aint doing ######### to fix that. U just nerf killers once again. But keys, keys are fine.

I am evaluating it for what it is..a change we waited months for just to make the worst change and keys are exactly like moris so I'm not sure how you'd think otherwise , this is just like pop and ds..difference is pop was changed without good reason

Honestly, this is a pretty positive change. Mori's were just absurdly powerful and promoted toxic gameplay, now, they're fair and add a fun aspect to gameplay.

I'll be happy to use them now!

wierd its a killer thing just like bloodlust weekend

I have been saying for a long time a mori nerf was needed. But I ALSO have strongly advocated against moris being only usable on death hook because they're no longer useful at that stage. PH's Final Judgement takes the time it takes to pick up a survivor, which makes it worth using. A normal mori take ~12-15 seconds. In that time you could easily hook someone and move on to the next chase rather than being locked in place.

I have always said making everyone need to be hooked once to use a mori was the way to do it. This was the exact change I did not want to moris.

PRAISE BE TO THE ENTITY

Honestly, what would make mori's more wholesome for all sides is that if you got an extra 5,000 points for being Moried. Instead survivors get punished for being Moried. Every time I get Moried i lose a pip and I just sit there like why do I even play this game.

"Make Mori's more like Bloody Party Streamers 2021"

I'm happy for the "Nerf".

DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW HARD IT IS TO COMPLETE FOUR OR FIVE GENERATORS WHEN I HAVE TWO DCS FROM A MORI :I

Oh well.

A shill for what exactly? What am I trying to help sell by disagreeing with you on video game balance changes? Do you even know what a shill is?

You ARE being melodramatic. “Killers will leave the game in droves if they can’t mori off first hook!” Boo hoo. Moris were unbalanced, unfair and unfun and they won’t be missed. If being able to mori off first hook was the only thing keeping you playing the game, then bye.

Frankly, I feel like Moris should just be removed from the game, period. Killers already kill players, they don't need another way to do so. I confess I'm not sure why people are upset about keys - I don't find them all that powerful, and so much of how they function is up to luck anyway. I don't see keys and moris as similar at all.

Why is this "the worst change"? You said in your comment that you thought it was unimaginative and you were annoyed that they didn't change keys. Given that the issue with Moris was balance, not excitement, the real question isn't "is this an exciting change?"; It's "is this a balanced change?". In my opinion the answer is a clear yes.

Keys are in the item slot, not the offering slot, meaning survivors need to do without their strongest items/add-ons to use one. Moris were useful in just about every game, while keys are only relevant in a minority of games (you need to survive until hatch spawn despite killers' tendency to tunnel key users, not escape easily through the exit gate, not take the open hatch during the EGC, not lose your key during the match, etc.). Keys have a number of counters as well: Franklin's (especially with Hoarder), tunneling/camping (especially after the hatch spawns), defending gens (so the hatch won't spawn), etc. You can also simply dodge the lobby with no penalty if you see a key and don't want to deal with it. Old Moris had no counters, besides bad matchmaking pairing you with a baby killer. Even lobby dodging wasn't possible, since the match needs to be loading already before you know a Mori might be in play.

With that said, I'm sure the devs will look at keys. Moris were clearly the more serious balance issue, though, so it makes sense they were addressed first. Moris had nothing to do with keys other than both being strong and annoying people because of it. The devs don't and shouldn't make balance changes in a "tit for tat" way, with every killer change being accompanied by a survivor change. They simply make the changes that they feel are most important for game balance. Expecting otherwise is just evidence of bias towards one side and entitlement.

---

Pop is still extremely strong and is still the strongest standalone killer perk in the game imo. I was happy with the Pop change too; it was way too easy to hook someone, go on a chase as normal, down that person, then pop a nearby gen, and then hook the person to have your Pop right back again. That made the perk an absolute snowball machine, since chasing quickly would essentially give you additional pops, and it would frequently win me games by itself. The 45 second timer still allows for this in extreme cases, but mostly killers are forced to choose between popping a gen and getting right into a chase. Given that Pop removes 20 seconds of repair time instantly, I think it's more than fair to make chasing vs. popping more of a choice.

Regardless of your opinions on that change, though, it has nothing to do with DS. The only things they had in common were hook-based 60 second timers and being strong, and if that's the bar you may as well call for MYC nerfs.

How else could they have made this work out?

A hook and a half then you get to use your mori? I don't think there really is a middle like for that

how about hooking everyone at least once?

The problem with that logic in my opinion is that those offerings get use out of them by existing. The ONLY time a mori will ever be useful anymore is if someone still has DS up, you've hooked them twice, and EGC is in play. You're effectively playing to lose if that's how you're using them, so why bother? In any other scenario you're better off hooking the person who's dead because it's faster, or slugging them and pressuring someone else because they're slugged and now you're doubling your pressure. It's a flashy animation that serves no purpose in almost any game. A cut coin is guaranteed to reduce items on a team not bringing them in. A petrified oak makes sabo and bodyblocking a good play. Salty lips have always been a meme. Fog add ons used to be way stronger than they are now so you can argue a weird reverse power creep with offerings there I guess? Same with the now gone moon offerings.

Regardless, the other offerings are consistent value, moris no longer are. If hooking everyone once is too strong, then a charge system where you need 4 tokens to mori and moris cause you to lose 1/2 charges (with ivory being unable to gain past getting 4 the first time) is also a good nerf that still lets them be consistently useful. Must be on death hook turns them into a niche use case forever, and that feels bad. This coming from someone who pretty much hasn't used them ever since I got the achievements for them.

I love this change. I would've prefered all 4 survivors to be hooked instead as a requirement to mori though. This would kinda of shift the tunneling problem to the 4th survivor hooked ( he'd most likely get tunneled off the hook into a mori), buuuuut.. *most killers using moris suck at the game and they'd never be able to hook all 4 survivors before the game end* :)

that is the middleground.

the mori activates after everyone was hooked at least once.

that would eliminate 5 gen first hook mori tunnels, give some counterplay to the offering AND would leave enough power for it to still be powerfull and worth running.